Because a kcm naruto clones will disappear by getting smacked by the end of a fan:
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Let alone actual arrows that could bisect a living shinobi who tanked a chidori spear twice (Danzo). There's nothing durable about those clones, it's still a shadow clone.
He did react to it, He use Mokuton to change the arrows trajectory
It does matter, do you know how fast Kakashi's reaction speed is? Kamui compliments that even further.
Bold is poor logic.
Ay lost an Arm because he chose too, it had nothing to do with the speed of sasuke's jutsu.
Enton shield is all fine and good, Naruto can use clones or chakra hands unlike Ay to has to injure himself to get past it. Sasuke can sit in his enton covered susanoo all he wants, That's just more chakra sasuke's using and the quicker susanoo will take it's toll on sasuke.
There is no poor logic. You're just senile in understanding that Sasuke put flame control before Ay could strike Susano'o. Meaning that Sasuke's reaction was faster than Ay.
Naruto's clones isn't getting rid of flame control, flame control has piercing power
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So he's cutting right through them with a Inferno style spear/sword
Susanooless sasuke gets murked by KCM clones, It's not even a contest without susanoo's OP defensive power.
Like she said before, Sasuke was still not fully healed before the Danzo fight. Sasuke expended a lot of stamina during all three of those fights, something that Karin cannot give Sasuke.
Because a kcm naruto clones will disappear by getting smacked by the end of a fan:
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Let alone actual arrows that could bisect a living shinobi who tanked a chidori spear twice (Danzo). There's nothing durable about those clones, it's still a shadow clone.
There is no poor logic. You're just senile in understanding that Sasuke put flame control before Ay could strike Susano'o. Meaning that Sasuke's reaction was faster than Ay.
It is poor logic because raikage losing an arm had nothing to do with sasuke's JUTSU speed, His attacks aren't fast enough to hit Ay, The only reason he lost an arm was because he chose to.
Fanfic. The only change between pre-war arc kakashi and war arc kakashi is his chakra reserves increasing because of his Kamui usage. Besides that nothing changed.
That wasn't what i was saying now was it.
It is poor logic because raikage losing an arm had nothing to do with sasuke's JUTSU speed, His attacks aren't fast enough to hit Ay, The only reason he lost an arm was because he chose to.
How about you open your eyes and read what I said properly because clearly you're having trouble seeing what's being typed.
Did Sasuke activate Flame control before Ay could land a hit on Susano'o with Lateral chop, yes or no? Answer the simple question.
Idk, why don't you ask the clone that got whacked in the torso with a fan? Because Tobi moving his hand is so much faster than a chidori spear now huh?
I guess your misinterpreted scenario that you just implied now is just as stupid as thinking that a Susano'oless MS Sasuke would get merked by a bunch of clones. As if Sasuke would just stand there and let a bunch of clones merk him in that scenario that you stated earlier?
Fanfic. The only change between pre-war arc kakashi and war arc kakashi is his chakra reserves increasing because of his Kamui usage. Besides that nothing changed.
How about you open your eyes and read what I said properly because clearly you're having trouble seeing what's being typed.
Did Sasuke activate Flame control before Ay could land a hit on Susano'o with Lateral chop, yes or no? Answer the simple question.
None of this has anything to do with my statement.
None of sasuke's jutsu are fast enough Touch/Catch Ay/Kcm naruto. At this point your just wondering off onto random things that has nothing to do with what i'm saying. I'm not saying sasuke can't activate his jutsu before they touch him now am i?.
Flame control it's self isn't an EMS feat the degree to which sasuke can control it is. MS sasuke had limited control over it, As his ocular power grew his control/ability to use it increased, Thus EMS flame control usage =/= MS flame control usage
Idk, why don't you ask the clone that got whacked in the torso with a fan? Because Tobi moving his hand is so much faster than a chidori spear now huh?
I guess your misinterpreted scenario that you just implied now is just as stupid as thinking that a Susano'oless MS Sasuke would get merked by a bunch of clones. As if Sasuke would just stand there and let a bunch of clones merk him in that scenario that you stated earlier?
Tobi > MS sasuke in everyway, he was dealing with Naruto, Gai and Kakashi, A feat far above what MS sasuke can achieve, Tobi tagging a clone with his "Fan" doesn't mean sasuke can with chidori spear, What are chidori spear speed feats again?.
A bunch of "clones" would overwhelm him just like V2 Ay would without susanoo. multiple clones on par with the one that fought 3rd raikage would be more than enough to overwhelm him. Simply because they're clones doesn't mean their fodder.
Except is was. It was about durability and dodging them as you implied
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Clearly they're not dodging them either if that have that much of an issue dodging Tobi's striking speed. Because lightning style such as chidori is all about increasing the body's thrust speed to end their opponents.
What?.
Since i'm getting no where i'll answer it for you, Yes Danzo reacted to the arrow.
If you want to look at his speed states all the way from part 1 till now you'll see that Kakashi stats remained the same:
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The only time his Taijutsu and speed went up to .5 is all after he recorded Lee's lotus during his fight. Besides that it's never changed.
Even his stamina remained the same ever since he went from a 3 tomoe to a Mangekyo sharingan.
My point is that Kakashi Pre-War arc or War arc did not increase his speed, stamina, etc ever since then. It's been the same so you can't make that comparison. The only difference between pre-war arc and war arc kakashi is his chakra reserves expanding enough to use Kamui efficiently, everything else stays the same.
And if you think Ms Kakashi has superior reflexes than Ms Sasuke, then this same thing applies to kcm Naruto since they're even. And after what
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, I wouldn't doubt it. Kakashi's speed and power is very underrated and I put him up there with Minato's.
None of this has anything to do with my statement.
None of sasuke's jutsu are fast enough Touch/Catch Ay/Kcm naruto. At this point your just wondering off onto random things that has nothing to do with what i'm saying. I'm not saying sasuke can't activate his jutsu before they touch him now am i?.
Yes they are fast enough to catch him, and you'd be dumb to think otherwise. Sasuke bested Ay mid-strike, same thing would happen if Kcm Naruto was put in that same position. He can counterattack anyone and if Ms Sasuke was able to catch Ay in his version 1 speed, then sure as hell he'll be able to catch kcm Naruto who was getting smacked around by Ay in his version 1 speed.
Common sense.
You think Ms Sasuke can't catch kcm naruto but an immobile
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and a edo Ms Itachi was beating both
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was all just a senseless writing?
Are you really that stupid to say that Ms Sasuke is slower than Kcm Naruto despite 2 other Ms user beating Naruto in reaction speed, foot-speed, and striking speed?
Yeah you need to because clearly they've been closed for over 200+ chapters
Flame control it's self isn't an EMS feat the degree to which sasuke can control it is. MS sasuke had limited control over it, As his ocular power grew his control/ability to use it increased, Thus EMS flame control usage =/= MS flame control usage
I need to know what you're reading because this fanfic Exaruto seems really interesting to you. Not only are you completely wrong about this fanfic, but everything you said here was not written or implied in the manga.
MS Sasuke can't control his magekyo powers well? :lol Where the hell did you get that from?
EMS is just a Mengkeyo that's eternal, gaining itachi's chakra powers doesn't further increase control it just prevents blindness and all other side affects.
Tobi > MS sasuke in everyway, he was dealing with Naruto, Gai and Kakashi, A feat far above what MS sasuke can achieve, Tobi tagging a clone with his "Fan" doesn't mean sasuke can with chidori spear, What are chidori spear speed feats again?.
Tobi moving his fucking arm is not superior to a flesh activating jutsu that increases your speed. That's the stupidest excuse I've ever heard and I'm not going to further indulge in this nonsense because Ms Kakashi's reaction foot speed beat Tobi's in kamui dimensions because of lightning blade.
A bunch of "clones" would overwhelm him just like V2 Ay would without susanoo. multiple clones on par with the one that fought 3rd raikage would be more than enough to overwhelm him. Simply because they're clones doesn't mean their fodder.
While Sasuke just dodges him effortlessly with 3 tomoe:
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So clones aren't doing shit to him, he simply makes quick work of them. Saying that a Sm naruto clone fought on par with the 3rd Ay is piss poor logic considering the fact that kcm naruto clone couldn't do anything to him. So does that mean Sm > Kcm Naruto now?
3rd Raikage is not overwhelming Sasuke either, don't be dumb.
I think you're problem is that you believe that awakening further progression on your eyes increases your speed automatically. I hope you realize that it doesn't work that way, right? MS Sasuke's speed is still the same speed as it is when he gained his EMS. I hope you know that right? The only thing that changes is his Susano'o and eternal light-no blindness side effects. You do realize this right?
Except is was. It was about durability and dodging them as you implied
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Clearly they're not dodging them either if that have that much of an issue dodging Tobi's striking speed. Because lightning style such as chidori is all about increasing the body's thrust speed to end their opponents.
No because it hit his body, he just diverted the attack by separating the part that hit him.
If you want to look at his speed states all the way from part 1 till now you'll see that Kakashi stats remained the same:
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The only time his Taijutsu and speed went up to .5 is all after he recorded Lee's lotus during his fight. Besides that it's never changed.
Even his stamina remained the same ever since he went from a 3 tomoe to a Mangekyo sharingan.
My point is that Kakashi Pre-War arc or War arc did not increase his speed, stamina, etc ever since then. It's been the same so you can't make that comparison. The only difference between pre-war arc and war arc kakashi is his chakra reserves expanding enough to use Kamui efficiently, everything else stays the same.
And if you think Ms Kakashi has superior reflexes than Ms Sasuke, then this same thing applies to kcm Naruto since they're even. And after what
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, I wouldn't doubt it. Kakashi's speed and power is very underrated and I put him up there with Minato's.
Yes they are fast enough to catch him, and you'd be dumb to think otherwise. Sasuke bested Ay mid-strike, same thing would happen if Kcm Naruto was put in that same position. He can counterattack anyone and if Ms Sasuke was able to catch Ay in his version 1 speed, then sure as hell he'll be able to catch kcm Naruto who was getting smacked around by Ay in his version 1 speed.
Common sense.
You think Ms Sasuke can't catch kcm naruto but an immobile
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and a edo Ms Itachi was beating both
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was all just a senseless writing?
Are you really that stupid to say that Ms Sasuke is slower than Kcm Naruto despite 2 other Ms user beating Naruto in reaction speed, foot-speed, and striking speed?
Yeah you need to because clearly they've been closed for over 200+ chapters
I need to know what you're reading because this fanfic Exaruto seems really interesting to you. Not only are you completely wrong about this fanfic, but everything you said here was not written or implied in the manga.
MS Sasuke can't control his magekyo powers well? :lol Where the hell did you get that from?
EMS is just a Mengkeyo that's eternal, gaining itachi's chakra powers doesn't further increase control it just prevents blindness and all other side affects.
Tobi moving his fucking arm is not superior to a flesh activating jutsu that increases your speed. That's the stupidest excuse I've ever heard and I'm not going to further indulge in this nonsense because Ms Kakashi's reaction foot speed beat Tobi's in kamui dimensions because of lightning blade.
Version 1 Ay overwhelmed Naruto as it is:
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While Sasuke just dodges him effortlessly with 3 tomoe:
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So clones aren't doing shit to him, he simply makes quick work of them. Saying that a Sm naruto clone fought on par with the 3rd Ay is piss poor logic considering the fact that kcm naruto clone couldn't do anything to him. So does that mean Sm > Kcm Naruto now?
3rd Raikage is not overwhelming Sasuke either, don't be dumb.
I think you're problem is that you believe that awakening further progression on your eyes increases your speed automatically. I hope you realize that it doesn't work that way, right? MS Sasuke's speed is still the same speed as it is when he gained his EMS. I hope you know that right? The only thing that changes is his Susano'o and eternal light-no blindness side effects. You do realize this right?
I don’t think he was at his full power/speed because right after that Karin said his chakra went up to tail beast levels, then I think on the page after that sasuke completely lost him the only way he could react was by putting up his amo being sasuke he realized that was the only why to stop someone who movements you couldn’t keep up with
And ay could of stopped before he hit sasuke but he choose not to if I am remembering correctly but he was running off emotions for bee so he didn’t care if he lost a arm or leg
If I remember this correctly I maybe wrong but don’t feel like looking it up but didn’t the ay say that naruto was the only other person to dodge him at full speed and the other was the fourth? Doesn’t that mean he wasn’t going full speed when he fought sasuke, and didn’t naruto say that SM was faster then KCM when he fought the 3rd
Except is was. It was about durability and dodging them as you implied
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Clearly they're not dodging them either if that have that much of an issue dodging Tobi's striking speed. Because lightning style such as chidori is all about increasing the body's thrust speed to end their opponents.
It was always about dodging, people with inferior reflexes already reacted to sasuke's arrows, they just lacked the physical speed to deal with them, Theres nothing that implies that naruto clones cannot either
But ok just ignore every other feat and focus on the Tobi thing because it suits your argument.
also, Where was it stated to increase the bodies trust speed?.
My point is that Kakashi Pre-War arc or War arc did not increase his speed, stamina, etc ever since then. It's been the same so you can't make that comparison. The only difference between pre-war arc and war arc kakashi is his chakra reserves expanding enough to use Kamui efficiently, everything else stays the same.
Your using databooks to prove nothing changed, Then saying his chakra reserves increased despite his stamina stat staying the same. You can't have it both ways there buddy.
Yes they are fast enough to catch him, and you'd be dumb to think otherwise. Sasuke bested Ay mid-strike, same thing would happen if Kcm Naruto was put in that same position. He can counterattack anyone and if Ms Sasuke was able to catch Ay in his version 1 speed, then sure as hell he'll be able to catch kcm Naruto who was getting smacked around by Ay in his version 1 speed.
@Bold lmao, So were ignoring the manga now huh?,
He Dodged Amaterasu
Sasuke's eyes couldn't follow his movments
Ay reacted to Enton and stopped his strike
Chidori isn't hitting V2 Ay nor is any of it's variants , So please explain why i'm wrong.
Then KCM naruto dodged Ay's full speed when he got serious, So all your blabbering about V1 Ay is pointless and useless.
Are you really that stupid to say that Ms Sasuke is slower than Kcm Naruto despite 2 other Ms user beating Naruto in reaction speed, foot-speed, and striking speed?
Don't take my word for it, use the manga by feats, MS Sasuke has shown himself not to be able to keep up with V2 Ay levels of speed, The only defense he has against it is enton.
This doesn't magically change just because you say so.
I need to know what you're reading because this fanfic Exaruto seems really interesting to you. Not only are you completely wrong about this fanfic, but everything you said here was not written or implied in the manga.
MS Sasuke can't control his magekyo powers well? :lol Where the hell did you get that from?
EMS is just a Mengkeyo that's eternal, gaining itachi's chakra powers doesn't further increase control it just prevents blindness and all other side affects.
Tobi moving his fucking arm is not superior to a flesh activating jutsu that increases your speed. That's the stupidest excuse I've ever heard and I'm not going to further indulge in this nonsense because Ms Kakashi's reaction foot speed beat Tobi's in kamui dimensions because of lightning blade.
So clones aren't doing shit to him, he simply makes quick work of them. Saying that a Sm naruto clone fought on par with the 3rd Ay is piss poor logic considering the fact that kcm naruto clone couldn't do anything to him. So does that mean Sm > Kcm Naruto now?
Naruto Didn't need the raw power provided by KCM, In that situation SM and it's sensory powers were more valuable based on the scenario he found himself in. That's all.
It was always about dodging, people with inferior reflexes already reacted to sasuke's arrows, they just lacked the physical speed to deal with them, Theres nothing that implies that naruto clones cannot either
But ok just ignore every other feat and focus on the Tobi thing because it suits your argument.
also, Where was it stated to increase the bodies trust speed?.
Haha what are you dense? There is nobody with inferior reflexes that ever dodged Sasuke's arrows because even Danzo didn't dodge those arrows, neither did Kakashi either.
There are people with inferior reaction speed that dodged kcm naruto's rasengan so idk what the hell you're talking about. Even Mu dodged kcm naruto and you're out here talking nonsense.
@bold: Raikiri increases
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. That's why Kakashi needed the sharingan to use this jutsu.
You even underlined the text of him reacting to it for me.
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"I can't weave the signs in time!"
"It can't be helped!" that is him reacting to the attack.
All that shows is him not having the physical speed to dodge it but he could see the attack coming and reacted to it Via using mokuton.
Seeing and reacting are too completely seperate things, this was made known ever since the Haku vs. Sasuke fight inside of the ice mirrors.
What Danzo did was tank the hit and separate the part of his body that was hit with wood style.
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Your defeating your own argument.
Your using databooks to prove nothing changed, Then saying his chakra reserves increased despite his stamina stat staying the same. You can't have it both ways there buddy.
I'm not defeating my own argument, I'm just not dumb enough to ave problems deciphering the difference between chakra and stamina. Do learn they are not the same thing before post something like this the next time.
I don't think kakashi has superior reflexes, You do.
KCM Naruto's reflexes and Speed > Sasuke's reflexes and speed based on cannon feats.
If you think KCM naruto reflexes =/< Kakashi's then by default his reflexes are much higher than Ms sasuke's.
Ms Sasuke's reflexes >>> Kcm naruto's reflexes on paper, don't go around thinking that Sasuke is inferior in speed because that's just more shit coming out of your mouth right now.
Kakashi is clearly superior because where kcm naruto couldn't land a simple hit in cqc against Obito (which requires speed and reflexes):
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Kakashi was smacking around Obito in cqc as well as Gai's reflexes was doing well keep up with Obito.
@Bold lmao, So were ignoring the manga now huh?,
He Dodged Amaterasu
Sasuke's eyes couldn't follow his movments
Ay reacted to Enton and stopped his strike
Chidori isn't hitting V2 Ay nor is any of it's variants , So please explain why i'm wrong.
Then KCM naruto dodged Ay's full speed when he got serious, So all your blabbering about V1 Ay is pointless and useless.
Sasuke couldn't follow yet somehow he places flame control way before he can use lateral chop? Like are you going to keep ignore this fact or are you going to keep talking about Amatersu when I'm busy discussing about flame control? Is it that hard for you to understand?
I can bring up the V1 all I want because at the end of the day, he was still smacking around kcm naruto. Naruto dodging Ay's V2 only one time is irrelevant considering the fact that it only happened one time and that's only reflexes not foot speed feats. In terms of foot speed 3 tomoe Sasuke beat V1 and V1 was keeping up with kcm naruto.
Sasuke is catching both Ay and Kcm naruto whether you like it or not because at the end of the day, he cost Ay his arm. The worst part is that you're comparing a ribcage Susano'o's speed to V2 Ay. You do realize that Susano'o limits your mobility right? There are no feats of Sasuke being slower than V2 Ay without Susano'o
This is a naruto who was casually talking to itachi whilst battling him. He was hardly serious about it.
Not only this the naruto that fought Itachi wasn't 100%.
He already had created multiple clones and spread them out across the battle field
Well wrong, he was fighting Itachi to survive since he can't subdue itachi. Not fighting 100% is s stupid excuse and I can say that Ms Sasuke wasn't fighting Ay 100% because he was preserving his chakra to kill Danzo. The proof would be him activating full skeletal Susano'o until after the Ay fight.
So I can make that excuse to.
Kcm naruto was fighting edo Itachi seriously in CQC, that part is true because if he was to hold back in the slightest then he's easily get overwhelmed. On top of that Nagato caught Naruto, the immobile edo tensei body was caught.
Making shadow clones doesn't affect your foot-speed and reflexes, it's common sense.
Don't take my word for it, use the manga by feats, MS Sasuke has shown himself not to be able to keep up with V2 Ay levels of speed, The only defense he has against it is enton.
This doesn't magically change just because you say so.
Last time I checked, Susano'o slows down your mobility so why don't you take your advice and read the manga. Show me a picture of MS Sasuke being slower than Ay 2 without a Susano'o activated.
Him Gaining EMS increase his ocular powers, Increase ocular power = Increase ocular based Techniques, It's not really that hard a concept.
MS sasuke didn't show anywhere near the level of flame control Nor on the same scale as EMS.
Gaining EMS prevents blindness, it does nothing to your control over your mangekyo powers. Learn how to read and drop your senseless speculation.
MS Sasuke showed the same exact level of control as he did in EMS. So stop your useless speculations because they mean nothing. The whole point of gaining the Susano'o in the first place is when you gain complete control of your left and right eye.
Chidori is Raikiri, where's your head at? Did you not read Gai's description of chidori in the chuunin exams?
Chidori spear caught a crow itachi clone. And if you argue that itachi's crow is slower than the real itachi then you'd also be saying that kcm naruto clone is also slower than the real body.
Chidori spear also bisected Rikudou Madara with a shuushin step. Amontejakra wasn't even used and on top of that the rinnegan does not increase your physical speed.
Yawn, Naruto already dodged full speed Ay when he got serious.
Yawn, he was serious and version 1 hit kcm naruto at 100% condition.
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reflexes≠Foot=speed. He dodge Ay with reflexes but he couldn't out run his version 2 form.
Your the one using piss poor logic here
Naruto Didn't need the raw power provided by KCM, In that situation SM and it's sensory powers were more valuable based on the scenario he found himself in. That's all.
If that's the case, then why are you bringing up the 3rd Raikage fight as an excuse? 3rd Ay dodged Naruto's attacks twice before getting hit by extending his chakra cloak to make up for his lack of speed.
So why did you even mention him in the first place? That's why your logic is garbage.
Didn't say he would i said multiple clones of that level could. Don't be dumb and read .
The clones of that level isn't overwhelming Sasuke either, don't be dumb about that either. You think a clone that Tobi was smacking around with his arms alone is going to give Sasuke trouble? That's honestly laughable.
And Why exactly? If Ms Sasuke can touch 3 kages, and kill one kage candidate. Why not kcm naruto who was touched by the very same Kage that Sasuke stripped of his right hand?
So kcm naruto failed against 3rd Ay but a sm naruto clone wins because of intel and perfect counter, yet you see nothing wrong with that abc logic you made earlier?
MS Sasuke struggled against 2 kages and all of their body guards:
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Made them
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while Kcm Naruto had problem evading Ay at base speed:
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but in terms of foot-speed he was competing with base.
So how is this making sense? MS Sasuke pre-Susano'o took out a Full formed biju Hachibi, while kcm Naruto isn't close to it in terms of biju power. So how do you still think Naruto is stronger?
If anything people agreeing that they're even is just Sasuke fans being generous if you really think about it. Sasuke started playing serious catch up to Naruto once he reached Biju Sage Mode Naruto. So why are you saying all these things now? MS Itachi was dealing with kcm Naruto, so why not MS Sasuke who is stronger than MS Itachi?
you baffle me with your logic, naruto would have killed Ay if it was a death match, he was simply trying to get away. he knows Ay is not the enemy. did u also mention hachibi ? that was a very embarassing fight for team taka. if bee also wanted to kill them all, he would. sasuke's ms was child's play to bee. bee killed sasuke at least twice in human form. karin saved him first and juugo second. those your points are baseless.
You don’t just say that my logic is baffling and then retort yourself with a opinion. That in itself is very baffling.
he knows Ay is not the enemy. did u also mention hachibi ? that was a very embarassing fight for team taka. if bee also wanted to kill them all, he would.
You’ve completely missed the point of team taka holding back. Because once they decided to kill, Sasuke nearlykilled Bee and he would’ve been dead if his duty wasn’t to bring the jinchuuriki alive.
So you’re missing the point of the big picture entirely. When team taka held back, they got beaten by bee who was holding back but when Bee went all out (transforming, manga said that he went all out) Sasuke beat him when he went all out too.
My point is that even though they were getting battered back and forth, Sasuke’s mangakego still mustered up enough power to take a full biju in times of trouble. So if Sasuke already has the potential to do that (which he did) then that becomes a dangerous arsenal to add to his feats.
sasuke's ms was child's play to bee. bee killed sasuke at least twice in human form. karin saved him first and juugo second. those your points are baseless.
Haha what are you dense? There is nobody with inferior reflexes that ever dodged Sasuke's arrows because even Danzo didn't dodge those arrows, neither did Kakashi either.
There are people with inferior reaction speed that dodged kcm naruto's rasengan so idk what the hell you're talking about. Even Mu dodged kcm naruto and you're out here talking nonsense.
@bold: Raikiri increases
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. That's why Kakashi needed the sharingan to use this jutsu.
The thrust speed and super activated flesh are separate features of Raikiri.
according to your scan the super activated flesh produces immense Chakra. It in no way enhances speed. It's just used at a high speed that the user can move at even without it.
Mu is a sensor so he has pretty high reaction speed right? Plus Naruto was falling from above him...so would that really be dodging Naruto's speed or the speed resulting from the pull of gravity? besides Mu failed to dodge the followup attack.
The clone hit by Obito's fan was only meant to distract him, not survive...Naruto actually should've used more chakra arms to counter Obito during that exchange but...?
Naruto's speed also has levels...he doesn't go all-out all the time.
