I was wondering which is better? The Otsutsuki dont use the trigrams with any of their techniques. Apparently, this is because it was developed after Kaguya was defeated by her sons. Since the trigrams have an element of yin and yang perhaps its similar to the six paths technique.
Hyuuga tech vs Otsutsuki tech
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Lukecetion
Member
She is also the only Otsutsuki that we know of which has used the Ash Bone Technique. For all we know it might be entirely unique to her which would explain why she seems to prefer the use of it over most of her other techniques. The Gentle Fist Technique isn't a specific person's technique, but a technique specific to a clan. Hence the question being posed here isn't about the individual's techniques, but rather the clan's.
As for the question at hand. As far as we know, the Otsutsuki doesn't have a technique set like the Gentle Fist because they don't seem to need it. The Gentle Fist was invented specifically to cater to the average person who possesses little chakra. Its a technique that tries to get as much "bang for your buck" so to speak. It tries to make the most out of every bit of chakra you have. As such the average Otsutsuki doesn't seem to need it and they therefore don't seem to have a unified technique shared among their clan members.
Much like you would consider Obito’s Kamui a sharingan technique or an Uchiha doujutsu ability, it’s along the same lines. The only similar techniques that all Otsutsuki have shown is levitation, chakra absorption, weapon from body manifestation and teleportation. And therefore, Otsutsuki still wins this.
Lukecetion
Member
Kamui is not an Uchiha Technique though, its a Sharingan Technique. The Sharingan being a trait not all Uchiha possessed, but most did. Not all Otsutsuki possess Rinnegan as seen with Kinshiki, hence that isn't a technique tied to their clan. A Uchiha technique would be the Uchiha Flame Formation technique used by Obito. This is a clan technique unique to that clan is invented by them. The Sharingan is more like a tool for the clan that most could use.
This is also the case with the Hyuuga as we know that not all its members had the Byakugan and therefore couldn't use Gentle Fist in the traditional manner. Hence the Byakugan isn't a Hyuuga or Otsutsuki technique, its a trait. The Gentle Fist however is a Hyuuga Technique. Regarding the Otsutsuki:
As far as I can remember, we haven't seen all members utilize Chakra Absorption such as Kinshiki. Nor have every person been able to shape weapons from their bodies, such as Kaguya or Momoshiki. The only two we've seen do that would be Kinshiki and Urashiki. The black rods that Momoshiki used were a Rinnegan ability, not a Otsutsuki ability. The Bone Ash Technique that Kaguya used was as far as we know an ability unique to her. Levitation isn't an ability unique to the Otsutsuki Clan and therefore isn't a technique of theirs. They also barely never use it to assist them in attacks, only as a defense mechanism that other people have also been able to use.
Teleportation is also an ability that only a few Otutsuki have been capable of doing and all of them have had some form of Rinnegan. Hence its a Rinnegan ability.
There are branches to this, I could say that the gentle fist isn’t a hyuga technique but a Byakugan technique since its use is directly correlated. See how that works? No Uchiha to manifest the Mangekyou sharingan ability = no doujutsu technique. It’s an Uchiha technique because the eye can be transferred to other Uchiha’s and can be used without harmful effects on the body.
Moving on, Kinshiki is said to absorb chakra in the databooks so that’s canon whether we like it or not, and thusly that matter is settled. Kaguya’s ash bones and hair spikes are her shaping weapons from her body; Momoshiki is the only exception here and that’s because he relied on absorbing and releasing ninjutsu. The levitation by which the Otsutsuki fly is innate to them, not taught. Same way the Juubi Jins just knew they could fly and therefore it is a unique attribute to the them. Every Otsutsuki has used flight to assist them in combat; I don’t need to list them. And literally Onoki and the other Tsuchikage are the only people to fly and again they had to be taught. So it’s not the same.
Teleportation is a s/t not restricted to the Rinnegan. Jigen literally just opened up a portal and teleported via karma seal. Ergo, an Otsutsuki technique.
Lukecetion
Member
This is stretching the argument. The Gentle Fist can be used without the Byakugan or any other Dojutsu that can see chakra points. It just cannot be used to its full extent without it. We see Naruto use several stances from the technique in his own fighting style as an example. Likewise someone in possession of the Tenseigan, Rinnegan or Rinne-Sharingan would also likely be able to use it. Then there is the fact that there are non-Hyuuga without the Byakugan who can take use of it. Its not a technique unique to Hyuuga Clan members that possess the Byakugan, its a technique that was invented by the Hyuuga and therefore its a Hyuuga Technique.
Fire Release: Ash Pile Burning is a Fire Release Technique, but not an Uchiha technique despite the fact that almost all Uchiha master Fire Release and know how to use it. While a technique such as Uchiha Flame Formation, Manipulating Windmill Triple Blade or Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique are Uchiha Techniques as they were invented by the clan and mainly used by them. Kakashi also proved that the Sharingan can evolve outside of someone in possession of the Sharingan naturally, as in the body if a Non-Uchiha. Hence a Non-Uchiha can get a Mangekyou. Shin Uchiha was explained to not be an Uchiha, yet he possessed (as far as we know) a Sharingan of his own.
Add that to the fact that not all Uchiha obtain the Sharingan then it stands to reason that there are other clans that should be able to gain the ability, only that its rare because the Uchiha was so inbreed. Much like how the Reaper Death Seal is a Uzumaki Clan Technique despite the fact that Minato and Hiruzen are the only two known users. Though simply being made by a clan doesn't mean its a Clan Technique. However when its widely and mostly used by the clan then it is a clan Technique. Example of this is the Nara clan techniques which isn't a bloodline limit, but is a clan technique as it was invented by them and mostly used by them.
The Uchiha also weren't the original users of Sharingan, that falls to the Otsutsuki family as the Sharingan is a devolution of the Rinnegan. Hence its not a Doujutsu that originated from them or is unique to them. This is the same logic we apply to the Byakugan. Though as far as we know the Gentle Fist was invented by the Hyuuga and mainly used by it's members. Hence its a clan technique. The Uchiha who unlock the Sharingan also aren't taught the ability or make them, they simply know of them and how to use them from the get-go. This tails back to the Rinnegan that is possessed by the Otsutsuki Clan.
The databooks aren't a reliable source of information, they are often inaccurate and contradict the manga. Normally as long as they don't directly contradict something it can be taken as canon, but then it falls within the realm of subjectivity and shouldn't be used in to prove a point.
Ironically, Kaguya was the only Otsutsuki to-date that hasn't manifested an object and used it as a weapon or tool. Saying that Ash Bones are weapons in the same vein as Chakra Weapons or a blade is like saying that the Rasengan is a physical weapon and not a Ninjutsu or that Stone Fist Technique is a weapon and not a technique. Bone Ash is a Ninjutsu, not a weapon and Kaguya never used it as such. She used it as projectiles. Momoshiki manifested Black Rods and used it as a blunt weapon, yet this is an ability of the Rinnegan and not the Otsutsuki.
Kinshiki and Urashiki manifested weapons and tools made of pure Chakra and used them as such tools would be used. These are the only two known members to use this type of combat ability.
The Gentle Fist isn't a inherited ability that they just know from birth, they have to learn it. This is also true for the Sharingan and Byakugan. They have to be taught the proper use of even if the user has some basic understanding of it from the moment they get them, making this point of your mute in this argument. Levitation is also not an ability all Otsutsuki benefit from or use frequently. Kinshiki for example used this ability very rarely, preferring to fight on foot. Momoshiki mainly used this ability to move around, and didn't use it to directly aid his combat ability, preferring to move around with his legs.
Teleportation wasn't invented by the Otsutsuki, nor is it used by all its known members. Not to mention that all its members uses different from of teleportation. Kaguya could teleport a field of people into different dimensions she was connected to and open portals in the shapes of squares to get around within and across these dimensions. Momoshiki's ability is unknown and we don't even know if it was him or Kinshiki that had the ability or if both of them do. Hence saying they did or did not would be a theory at best. Urashiki was only able to use teleportation with his Rinnegan, hence its a technique tied to the Rinnegan like with Sasuke.
As for Jigen. Not only is his teleportation seemingly tied to Karma, but its also different from what Kaguya used. Meaning they are not the same technique. This ties back to my earlier point about the Uchiha and Fire Release. Just because the Uchiha preferred to use Fire Release and were known for creating quite a few of their techniques, then not all Fire Release techniques were Uchiha Techniques by default. Likewise, just because some Otutsuki Members can use teleportation in different ways, then that doesn't automatically mean that ALL forms of teleportation is an Otsutsuki Technique.
I‘m not going that in-depth with this because I’m on my mobile and it’ll take all day, so I’ll make it quick:
-Ironically, Kaguya manifested the expansive truth seeking orb which (as Madara, Naruto and Obito displayed) could’ve been turned into a rods, nunchucks, staffs, etc. Yet she didn’t use them that way nonetheless, it was possible.
-It doesn’t matter whether they utilize the abilities differently, what matters is the end result. All Otsutsuki can fly, teleport, absorb chakra, and manifest weapons. They are Otsutuski techniques.
-No the Otsutsuki weren’t taught to fly, they’ve always known how to. Again, Hagoromo and Kakashi attests to this.
-Jigen manifested chakra rods without a Rinnegan. Ergo, Otsutsuki tech.
Lukecetion
Member
Kaguya was specifically stated to use her Orb as a means to create a new dimension and judging by its size then that was the intended use of her technique. Saying "But she could've shaped it like a rod, ergo she could make weapons" is like saying that Itachi could've done the same with Amaterasu because we know its possible as seen with Sasuke. Ergo weapon manifistation (by your own logic) should be an Otsutsuki, Uchiha, Kaguya, General Use technique that ALL Shinobi can use as all are technically capable of using it like Sasuke did with making a blade of Lightning Release.
Kaguya's technique wasn't use to create weapons, nor is the creation of weapons through chakra a technique unique to the Otsutsuki and because we've never seen them be raised before then we also don't know to what extent it is inherited or learned. Ergo, saying that they are all magically born with the ability to manifest rods (which is an ability of the Outer Path) doesn't hold ground.
Naruto could fly, as could Madara and Obito. As could Sasuke and Kakashi through the application of different techniques. Sasuke and Kakashi were able to do it through Susano'o which isn't a taught ability, nor an ability unique to the Uchiha it seems and it is an ability very few Uchiha even possess. Again to my previous point. Just because all members of a clan were expected to be able to use a certain ability doesn't make that ability a Clan Technique. If that was the case then "Fire Release" is an Uchiha Exclusive Technique and all that use it are automatically Uchiha.
Kinshiki also (as far as we know for certain) cannot absorb chakra. Kaguya was able to do it (what seemingly) through contact without a Rinnegan where as Momoshiki was only capable of doing it through the use of Rinnegan as when his Rinnegan was destroyed he lost the ability. Hence it wasn't a natural ability of his. Madara was also shown to be naturally able to absorb Chakra even without a Rinnegan. Its an ability some people posses, yet not all of them do.
To my previous point in regards to this. We don't know, hence saying they do know from birth or not is entirely subjective and up to debate. Even so we don't know if Kaguya possessed this ability prior to eating the Fruit, hence that offers an other opportunity for your theory to be mistaken. If we go by logic as with the other abilities of the Otutsuki then this isn't a natural ability they have, but one that is obtained later in life. Even if there is something in their chakra that allows them to do this from birth then we don't know the specifics around it.
I was going to avoid this, but strictly speaking we don't know if Jigen is an Otsutsuki yet. That being said, it doesn't matter if he is as we still have Urashiki and Kinshiki who created weapons through chakra as opposed to the vastly superior Black Rods that Momoshiki and Jigen have used. If they used an inferior ability then that also mean that its not an ability they all possessed and thus resorted to other means. Now if you try to argue that "Weapon Manifestation" by itself is an Otsutsuki Technique that belongs to their clan in the same vein as Nara's Technique then that is a nice fan-fiction. It would mean that Susano'o, along with Sasuke's Chidori Blade and the Hidden Stone's Stone Fist along with the Kaguya's Clan Spine Whip are all Otsutsuki Techniques invented and commonly used by the clan.
"Weapon Manifestation" isn't unique to the Otsutsuki, nor is their way of doing it. We've seen Uchiha, Otsutsuki, Uzumaki and whatever Zetsu is create these Black Rods. We've seen the Otsutsuki, Uchiha, Hatake, Kaguya and several Hidden Stone members all use a variation of "Chakra Weapons" by applying an element to it or through pure chakra. Yet we've not seen that all Otsutsuki can use both Black Rods and Chakra Weapons. You are trying to argue that because some members of a clan used a technique use by other people then that technique is automatically a clan technique of the clan the members belong to. Which it isn't.
-You’re ignoring the fact that Kaguya could’ve created any number of truth seeker orbs and turned them into weapons. It doesn’t matter the reason why she didn’t, she could’ve. Again, manifesting weapons from pure chakra = Otsutsuki technique. Every one of them can do it, regardless of if non-aliens can do a similar but inferior form of it; all Otsutsuki do it. Ergo weapon manifestation (by my logic) is creating actual, tangible weapons; Unlike Amaterasu. Therefore it is an Otsutsuki exclusive technique.
Otsutsuki create actual tangible weapons via:
-Yin-Yang release (Truth Seeking Orbs)
-Karma seal and/or Rinnegan (Chakra Rods)
-From their actual body/chakra (Ash bones, Hair needles, Kinshiki’s weapons)
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-Naruto could only fly because he awoke Otsutsuki chakra via Hagoromo (an actual Otsutsuki), and both Madara and Obito became actual horn-bearing Otsutsuki by becoming Jinchuriki and again, they all knew how to fly innately. Naruto didn’t initially because he wasn’t actually turned into an Otsutsuki but he was still got around to using it without having to be taught. Flying via Susano’o isn’t what the Otsutsuki use, so your comparison is null and void. Now, Fire Release isn’t an Uchiha only technique, while levitation is an Otsutsuki technique.
And if you want to be technical, all forms of chakra manipulation are Otsutsuki techniques since Hagoromo and Indra formed them. So using your logic (a technique had to be created by them to be a clan technique) then there you have it.
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-Listen, Pre-fruit consumption Kaguya came to earth somehow didn’t she? Either she teleported (with or without her third eye) or she descended from the sky like she did in the non-canon anime backstory. Either way, she used an Otsutski technique to get to earth. Using common sense, one would realize that Otsutsuki chakra allows one to fly innately, as seen Juubi Jin, Tenseigan bearers, and actual alien Otsutsuki. Therefore there is no mistake in my logic just because you refuse to acknowledge the common sense of it.
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-It doesn’t matter if Jigen isn’t an Otsutsuki, the Karma seal is an Otsutsuki technique, just like the Byakugou dates back to the Sage of Six Paths. They’re Otsutsuki techniques, get over it already.
Just to drive the point home: Weapon manifestion by Uchiha and Uzumaki directly stems from their Otsutsuki genes, BZ was creating via Creation of All Things by Kaguya, which obviously is an Otsutsuki technique as well, which is also why BZ could create those chakra rods. Let’s use your logic, We’ve not seen all Uzumaki use those chakra chains either yet it’s a clan technique, isn’t it? And if so, we’ve seen Rinnegan bearers use the Demonic Statue chains to reach a similar purpose so, is that too, an Uzumaki technique or an Otsutsuki? Truth is, it comes from their Otsutsuki DNA. You’re wrong, just acknowledge it and move it.
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Ultimately all Otsutsuki: absorb chakra, create weapons, levitate, and teleport. Whether it’s through the Karma seal, doujutsu or their own chakra. They’re all Otsutsuki techniques
Lukecetion
Member
I'm ignoring the fact? What now? We never see Kaguya manifesting Black Rods or multiple Truth-Seeker Orbs. We see her manifest one large one that has a different use and purpose than the smaller ones, as such we don't know if it can be used in the same way or not.
The Rasengan itself is pure chakra, its nothing but a ball of chakra that you smack at a target. This isn't an Otsutsuki Technique. Bijuu-Dama is another example of this as the Rasengan is based off it's design. We also have Sasuke's Chidori Blade which albeit was a Nature Transformation and not pure, unaltered chakra then it was a weapon made of nothing by chakra. This is also not a Otsutsuki Technique nor is it something we know the Otsutsuki capable of. This is also the same as Amaterasu.
We also have the Susano'o, a technique unique to the Sharingan as far as we know. This ability manifests nothing by pure chakra in the shape of a giant solider with weapons. Momoshiki was unable to do this so he utilized his ability to control the environment to compete with it.
By the logic that "if the Otsutsuki use a superior version of it, then its an Otsutsuki technique" then it isn't even an Otsutsuki Technique. Susano'o for example greatly outclass Black Rods and Kinshiki's Chakra weapons in terms of strength. Meaning by your own logic the Rinnegan's Black Rods are Sharingan Techniques, as is the Chakra Weapons used by certain Otsutsuki. What the Otsutsuki Red Chakra Weapons are is a different application of Chakra Shape Control like what the Rasengan is. But instead of making a sphere they make a specific weapon.
While the Black Rods are not so flexible and has a limit to how much you can control their shape effectively. For example, you cannot increase the size of a Black Rod without also increasing the size of the material it's made off. We see this in action when Obito uses some of Black Zetsu to make as staff, removing parts of Zetsu for this progress. Chakra Weapons can become any size depending on the amount of chakra pulled into it, regardless of its previous mass as seen with the Prefect Susano'o.
Also non-Otsutsuki can do this as seen with Naruto, Minato, Kakashi, Obito, Madara, Sasuke, Ay, A, Ohonki and Jiraya to mention a few. All with their own variation of chakra manifestation or physical alternation to create a weapon. For example, Juugo is able to shape his mass into weapons through the application of Natural Chakra added to his body. However he cannot create more mass than he has, so he is just change the shapes and properties, not creating more of it. A was able to create both a weapon and armor through Chakra Shape and Chakra Nature manipulation to enhance his speed and to pierce any attack.
Minato invented the Rasengan which is nothing but pure chakra in the shape of a sphere, it doesn't have an element to it yet. This is similar to what we see Kinshiki and Urashiki use as far as we know their red weapons doesn't have an element but its pure chakra like the Rasengan. Kimimaro was able to form weapons out of his bones, though this was a two way technique that requires two things to work. First the user has to possess the chakra needed to alter their bone structure, secondly they require the healing factor to replace any bones they take out.
Kimimaro didn't create bones, he ripped them out of his body and his natural healing replaced them quickly. This is akin to what Kaguya is likely doing, only that she is adding some form of chakra to the bones to make them more lethal. She isn't creating them from thin air as they originate from her body. Hence she is creating bones weapons through the application of her own body bu forcing chakra into it. This is unlike the Black Rods of the Rinnegan which are created from thin air as explained by Madara. They force their "will" into life and gives it shape. This is the Yin Release from "Creation of All Things" in work.
The Truth-Seeker Orbs are superior this in the regard that they are Yin-Yang, Mind and body. Zetsu was a body with life contained within him. Likewise you can think of the orbs like that, which is why Kaguya could use it to create life. However this life doesn't have a personality and is only tied to the user, which is why Nagato was able to use it to control Pain and Naruto was able to sense Nagato through them with the use of Natural Chakra. Regarding Hair Needles, this an ability that we've seen Kaguya and Jiraya both use, and they both used it through applying chakra to their hair to sharpen them much like what Sasuke does with his Chidori when he channels it through his blade.
They didn't create needles from nothingness like the Chakra Weapons or Ninjutsu do, they created it by altering the physical properties of something that already existed. This isn't even remotely comparable to the Black Rods or Chakra Weapons used by certain Otsutsuki.
Ohonki can fly without the use of Otsutsuki Chakra, and the Susano'o can levitate without the use of it's wings. The wings can aid in better movement, but aren't required. Susano'o is also something that isn't taught to someone, they just know how to use it perfectly when they get to that stage, and obtain the chakra required for it like we saw with Kakashi. Hence the flying through the use of Susano'o isn't taught just like the flying through Six Paths Chakra isn't taught. They use different mediums, but by your own logic they function the same. By that logic, levitation isn't an ability unique to the Otsutsuki, nor an ability they all use frequently in their fighting styles like the Hyuuga does with Gentle Fist.
Hagoromo invented Ninshu, not Ninjutsu, that was Indra. My logic was also that a Technique should be made by the clan and used by the vast majority of the clan in combat or support roles. We also know that neither Hagoromo or Indra invented the use of Chakra and we don't know if the Otsutsuki did or if they were the first. Hence saying that all techniques belong to either one isn't only fundamentally wrong, but a horrible argument.
Or she was aided by an Otsutsuki with the ability to do get her there, such as her partner, Momoshiki or Urashiki.
We aren't discussing whenever or not its an ability they possess naturally, we are talking about whenever or not its a Clan Technique of theirs. Which by all logic it isn't. Its not a technique invented by them as you've so said several times. Its also not an ability they all prefer to use in combat like the Gentle Fist. We also don't know if they are born with the ability or if they grow into it. Hence you are arguing that you not only know the future, but that you any natural trait of a person is hereby considered a "clan technique". As such the Clan Technique of the Namikaze Clan is having yellow hair even if they are born with darker hair and grow into it.
Why is it that we refer to say the Preta Path as a Rinnegan ability and not a Otsutsuki Ability if all Chakra originated from them? Because the Preta Path specifically isn't an ability they all possess and neither is the Rinnegan. The Sharingan isn't an Uchiha Technique, its a Doujutsu often associated with the clan because the vast majority of them have it. The Rinnegan is considered the same way when it comes to the Otsutuki because a requirement is to possess Six Paths Chakra which (as far as we know) all Otsutsuki possess some form of, yet not all possess the Rinnegan naturally.
This is stupid on so many levels. Are you honestly saying that because less than half of a group used a given ability then that ability is that group's ability and all of them can use it? So by that definition, because Nagato could use Rinnegan, its therefore an Uzumaki Clan technique? Because Minato could use Reaper Death Seal its a Namikaze Technique and not an Uzumaki technique? Two abilities that are used differently and come from different places aren't the same thing just because they serve the same purpose.
The Chidori and Rasengan are akin to each other, yet not the same technique despite the fact they originate from the same idea and serve the same purpose. Likewise the teleportation that we believe Momoshiki to have and the teleportation Kaguya had comes from two different abilities and are used differently by them, they also look differently and drain a different amount of chakra. Hence they aren't the same technique.
No offense, but are you dumb? Honestly, one planetoid sized Truth seeking ball, and you’re doubting whether she could create multiple tinier orbs of the same composition to achieve a different purpose such as creating weapons tangible weapons?
I don’t know if you remember or not but even semi-conscious Juubito caused one of his Truth Seeker orbs to expand with explosive destructive power but he bombed himself. If a lesser being is capable of doing it, why would a superior being be restricted to it? Listen to yourself.
Wrong, the Otsutsuki make solid, tangible, weapons (weapons that can be held); not intangible weapons like the rasengan, bijuu bomb, Amaterasu, chidori (weapons that can’t be held because they aren’t solid).
This is what I believe you aren’t grasping, you can’t grab onto a Rasengan if it falls out of your hand, nor can anyone physically clutch the flames of Amaterasu and therefore, those techniques are unlike the Otsutsuki’s weapons. No one creates weapons the way that the Otsutsuki do.
The Susano’o weapons are the only exception and again, that’s from their Otsutsuki lineage.
Lmfao that wasn’t my logic at all but if we use it, of course it’s subjective but didn’t one of Kaguya’s hair needles pierce Sasuke’s Rinnegan Susano’o palm? And weren’t Kaguya’s ash bones strong enough to pierce Kakashi’s Six Paths powered Perfect Susanoo? So therefore they are Otsutsuki techniques. We’re playing chess not checkers.
Which also means that the false-logic you tried to pass onto me is just as desperate as your own. Also just to beat you down further, Kinshiki was able to emulate Six Paths Naruto’s Bijuu Rasenshuriken strength in which he cut down a Juubi tree with a mere swing. So all of the time Kinshiki was letting himself match with Sasuke. He could’ve killed him at any time. Otsutsuki techniques > Uchiha techniques, sucks to suck.
That’s not true at all, Obito merely used black Zetsu to make the staff because he a trivial amount of Six Paths Senjutsu remaining from the time he was the Juubi Jin. TSBs are composed of yin-yang chakra, which Juubi Jin’s master subconsciously.
TSB can expand and contract to whatever size you wish, you just have to have enough chakra for them to expand to a planetoid level, which Kaguya had. Both TSBs and Kinshiki’s chakra weapons may have the same principles and restrictions. Point is, they’re still Otsutsuki techs.
@-bold: I already stated the differences between those and the Otsutsuki’s weapon manifestations earlier, so I’ll ignore those.
Jugo’s use of NE to use his Sage Mode to create weapons is akin to being able to use the Rinnegan to create rockets, metallic tentacles and whatnot. Kinshiki should be able to do the same thing but I’m not going that deep. Anyway, Ay’s chakra armor isn’t real armor, Kinshiki’s armor would be more tangible than Ay’s. Again, that’s the difference.
Kaguya was creating entirely new bones from nothing, Kimimaro’s ability doesn’t compare. And again, “regardless of whether non-aliens can do a similar but inferior form of it; all Otsutsuki do it .”
Irrelevant
Irrelevant and misleading, Kaguya’s hair spikes are the only exception to creating weapons from nothing. However, I said weapon manifestation which is the visualization of actually seeing something becoming a weapon. And unlike non-aliens, the Otsutsuki methods are unique to them and those of their blood.
Glad you circled back to where I said Onoki could fly lmfao, and yet he still had to be taught to fly just like the other Tsuchikage. And anyway, the Otsutsuki don’t use Susano’o to fly so that comparison is null and void.
And again no, you aren’t using my logic so stop saying you are; But just to tear that apart, flying via Susano’o is solely dependent on whether your Perfect Susano’o has wings or not, if Madara tried to fly with his, he wouldn’t have been able to. Also an Otsutsuki needs no medium, they can fly period. Neither Sasuke nor Kakashi could fly without their avatars and by that logic, innate flight is an Otsutsuki ability that every one of them has utilized. GG
No shit, that’s why I added Indra in the statement
. However, Hagoromo taught Indra and Indra was an Otsutsuki and therefore the father of ninjutsu. Ergo, ninjutsu in its entirety is an Otsutsuki technique. Hagoromo and Ashura spread chakra to the people of earth and thusly chakra manifested in the populace. All Otsutsuki sourced, Nature Energy, however, is a different topic entirely. Lmfao yeah, Momoshiki helped her escape and eat the chakra fruit. #riplogic
No.
Lmfao as if didn’t you sound stupid before; the Otsutsuki’s innate abilities/techniques allow them to utilize those abilities in combat. Their flight coupled with aerial bombardments would be a technique if named as such. But from what I remember, they don’t name a lot of their techniques. In-fact, BZ named all of Kaguya’s techniques. Also no, the Namikaze aren’t even a clan
and no, a phenotype can’t be a technique unless said phenotype serves a purpose in combat. Also, where was I predicting the future? You said a whole lot of dumb sh*t that I can’t wait to get answers to. LmfaoYeah you ignored the “just to drive the point home,” portion of my reply so address that then I’ll address this nonsense.
Lukecetion
Member
Because of the release of the new chapter we have a few more interesting bits about this "Weapon Manifestation" argument you are so talking about, so I will just reply to the this and not that other insanity you wrote out. I'll tackle all of the abilities you mentioned individually too.
Rasengan
This is a technique that shapes nothing but pure chakra in the palm of the user's hand, allowing them to hold and wield it as an explosive close range weapon. This is a physical object, a tangible object that can interact with the physical realm and is held in the palm of the hand.
Bijuu Bomb
Bijuu Bomb was more stated because of its unique relationship with the Rasengan, but no matter. The Bijuu Bomb is a combination of Yin-Yang Releases to create a physical sphere of Chakra which can then be exploded into other shapes or held in shape. As seen against Sasuke, a Bijuu can use this sphere as a melee weapon as a means to block and attack a close range attack.
Amaterasu
When Sasuke entered the Battlefield along with the Hokage he rushed in wielding two blades, his normal metal blade in one hand and a blade made of Amaterasu's flames in his other hand. He used this both to attack close range and shoot with. Hence its a physical tangible sword he wielded like his normal blade.
Chidori
When Sasuke was running after Madara he did so without his blade, when he caught up with Madara he created a blade of pure Lightning Release Chakra or Pure Chakra in his hand and used that to slice Madara in half. That is identical to what Kinshiki demonstrated aside from the color of the chakra, which is likely just Kinshiki's natural chakra color as every character in the Narutoverse has a chakra color that is usually not blue.
You argument that "you can't physically clench" these techniques in ones hand is not only shallow and wrong, but you contradict yourself by stating it. We have several examples of where these techniques were held in the hand of a person, and we also don't know if the weapons "hovered" in the hands of Kinshiki like the Rasengan does in the palm of someone hands or if he physically held unto it. If you are going to argue that he physically held unto them then that would mean Sasuke did so as well when he created a blade of Amaterasu or Chidori.
Now in regards to the newest chapter of the manga. Its confirmed that Jigen "resizes" his rods from a very small size, and that he doesn't create them at the spot. Meaning as far as we know he doesn't possess the ability to manifest weapons, yet another thing you claimed that he could (without actually providing any evidence) in your theories.
-Kinshiki makes actual physical blades that can be touched and held by anyone assuming that Kinshiki maintains the shape of the blade. Example: The blades that Kinshiki stuck into the Haichibi during his defeat. They were tangible by all as opposed to where ONLY THE CASTER of those other techniques you listed are able to hold those techniques. Again, learn to read
.They’re exactly like the black rods
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Exactly like the black rods.
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I literally never contradicted myself at any point, so please stop. We’ve all seen you how many times I’ve handed you your ass using nothing but logic.Lukecetion said:
>But speaking of contradictions, you initially said the following:
However, you changed your wording later on to:
Maybe you should learn the definitions of the words you use.
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@-bold: No, WE do know, you’re just desperately spewing BS and hoping that it sticks, which is a terrible tactic btwLukecetion said:
. Refer to spoiler:
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The chidori and Amaterasu can only be held by their caster, Sasuke can’t pass either of those blades to a comrade to hold. The Rasengan literally can’t be held by any one person, it levitates slightly. Your initially wording was ignorant and misleading, the user can’t palm the Rasengan like you would a basketball or Kinshiki’s weapons, otherwise they’d harm themselves. Good thing you contradicted yourself and fixed it
Lmfao so two things:Lukecetion said:
1.) My argument is no where near solely dependent on whether Jigen creates rods, although nothing says that he doesn’t create them yet, so you’re jumping the gun like a reckless idiot
2.) My argument for Jigen also talked about his ability to use s/t and how the Karma seal (an Otsutsuki tech) allows the use of teleportation. Sticking to the topic, they’re all Otsutsuki techniques.
You were smart to dismiss the other things that I destroyed you on, but you were stupid to reply at all. Lmfao
Edit: Don’t take too long to get back online now
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