[Discussion] Hyuga Clan: Direct Descendants of the SO6P

[The Necromancer]

how can it be wrong if it's canon? these are old chapters so the translations are on point. And true Senju and Uchiha were the strongest clans of their time, but I wasn't arguing power levels between the Hyuga and Uchiha. I just think the Hyuga were their predecessors...weaker or not.

Because kishi contradicts himself all the time. How can the hyuuga be the oldest bloodline when the uchiha and senju were the founders? If you can answer that logically i'll concede the entire debate to you.

 

[Griffith]

Oh I never said which clan formed first. I was simply pointing out that I do not believe the Uchiha cam FROM the Hyuga clan. Just because there is a direct lineage from the Elder son doesn't mean that the clan formed first. It is possible a branch out of the Elder Son formed the Hyuga clan and eventually the more direct lineage formed the Uchiha.

He mentions how the DESCENDANTS became Uchiha and Senju....that clearly means that the Elder Son didn't form the Uchiha clan as the Younger didn't form the Senju. Sometime along the way their more directly known descendants became those clans. That statement alone can easily vouch for the possibility of the Hyuga clan forming first!

Very true. Plus how would someone explain these eyes? Uchiha? Nah...

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[KGB Kakuzu]

Very true. Plus how would someone explain these eyes? Uchiha? Nah...

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Yup. The eyes show the trace existence or possibility of both the Hyuga clan and the Uchiha. The blankness representing Hyuga, and the eye pattern representing Uchiha with the concept of the Rinnegan's swirls!

 

[Griffith]

Because kishi contradicts himself all the time. How can the hyuuga be the oldest bloodline when the uchiha and senju were the founders? If you can answer that logically i'll concede the entire debate to you.

very True. But in order to start a village u need to have a group of people come together.. The senju and the uchiha were the biggest mercenary powers of their era and also the strongest. So their truce meant a lot towards the formation of a village, but it doesnt necessarily mean they were the oldest clans..just the most powerful and monumental. And yes there are many inconsistencies throughout the manga..but i wouldnt claim that the author is flat out wrong in a plot that he created ultimately.

 

[Q of the Sharingan]

No. Just no. A few points

The "oldest" clan title was given to them because the Uchiha and Senju were basically nonexistent at the time. The Senju and the Uchiha are the oldest clans of Leaf village because they were the founding clans.

The assumption that the Uchiha came from the Hyuga was just that, an assumption. If the Hyuga were descendants from the Sage like you say, then the Byakugan would be able to read the stone tablet that the sharingan and rinnegan can read. The Byakugan has not been stated or hinted that it can read the tablet. Something that eyes descended from the Sage should be able to do.

The Hyuga are in no way more peaceful than the Uchiha. The Hyuga allow only the first born of the main family to live peacefully. That means that one person from each generation, maybe two or three people at a time are the main family and do not have the curse seal on their heads. If the branch family, the mass majority of the clan, step out of line, then they can be put to death without hesitation. The Hyuga are ferocious within their family, more so than the Uchiha in terms of strict adherence.

The Hyuga may be descendant of the Sage but they are not closer than the Senju, Uchiha, or the Uzumaki. There has been no statements to the Hyuga being part of the sage lineage, and we are nearing the end of the manga. It is highly unlikely.

 

[Griffith]

Yup. The eyes show the trace existence or possibility of both the Hyuga clan and the Uchiha. The blankness representing Hyuga, and the eye pattern representing Uchiha with the concept of the Rinnegan's swirls!

This is just conjecture...but i feel as if the elder sons descendants were split on ideology as well. Whoever retained the Juubi's characteristics retained the hatred of the aforementioned monster. Which is why the Uchiha can control Bijuu and the Hyuga can't..i'm guessing

 

[TimeMask]

Kakashi said the Hyuga are Konoha's oldest and greatest clan yet the Uchiha founded Konoha with the Senju clan. And both Senju and Uchiha are known to be stronger then the Hyuga clan so both these clans can be considered to be greater then the Hyuga clan.

So Kakashi's comment about the rumor of Uchiha coming from the Hyuga may just be something Kishi ignores. As Kishi changed his mind about the Hyuga being the oldest clan in Konoha since he had the Uchiha and Senju clans be the founders of Konoha.

If Kishi makes the Hyuga clan related to the Uchiha then there's not much stopping Kishi from making a person with Byakugan have their Byakugan turn into sharingan.

 

[Griffith]

The "oldest" clan title was given to them because the Uchiha and Senju were basically nonexistent at the time.

Touche. You may be right about this point but ultimately...there is no way that the Uchiha were more peaceful than the Hyuga. They were planning to stage a rebellion that would've left the village vulnerable and war would've followed. The Hyuga faithfully serve the hidden leaf. Also, there has been very little elaboration on the evolution of the Byakugan (if there is any) but I doubt if there is that they would have to kill their best friend and their own siblings in order to attain that power. The hierarchy of the clan is a little messed up, yes...but Neji learned to forgive Hinata and his uncle Hiashi began to train him. They are forgiving while the Uchiha are mongers of hate.

 

[Griffith]

Kakashi said the Hyuga are Konoha's oldest and greatest clan yet the Uchiha founded Konoha with the Senju clan. And both Senju and Uchiha are known to be stronger then the Hyuga clan so both these clans can be considered to be greater then the Hyuga clan.

So Kakashi's comment about the rumor of Uchiha coming from the Hyuga may just be something Kishi ignores. As Kishi changed his mind about the Hyuga being the oldest clan in Konoha since he had the Uchiha and Senju clans be the founders of Konoha.

If Kishi makes the Hyuga clan related to the Uchiha then there's not much stopping Kishi from making a person with Byakugan have their Byakugan turn into sharingan.

Just because they founded the village doesn't mean they were the oldest clans at the time...it wasnt just senju and uchiha at first. U need multiple clans in order to start a village. They were probably the most powerful and influential.

 

[Q of the Sharingan]

Touche. You may be right about this point but ultimately...there is no way that the Uchiha were more peaceful than the Hyuga. They were planning to stage a rebellion that would've left the village vulnerable and war would've followed. The Hyuga faithfully serve the hidden leaf. Also, there has been very little elaboration on the evolution of the Byakugan (if there is any) but I doubt if there is that they would have to kill their best friend and their own siblings in order to attain that power. The hierarchy of the clan is a little messed up, yes...but Neji learned to forgive Hinata and his uncle Hiashi began to train him. They are forgiving while the Uchiha are mongers of hate.

There were few instances of in clan violence for the Uchiha. The Hyuga could not have violence in the clan due to the Main family and Branch family layout. Neji's father was thinking of killing Hinata when she was 3 or 4. That is extremely hateful. The Hierarchy of the clan prevents any showing of hatred at all. Also, the Hyuga weren't discriminated against like the Uchiha. The inner politics of the village were corrupted and exiled the Uchiha. Both clans have/had their failings, with the Hyuga only have a few people being truly free and the Uchiha having violent tendencies when dealing with their problems.

ps. Neji only forgave Hiashi and the main family because because he learned the truth about his father's sacrifice. Hiashi would have been stupid for not training a prodigy like Neji himself, especially since he is branch family.

 

[Akx19]

No. First of all the Uchiha and Seju are as close as lineage gets to the So6p as they are his children.

If uzumaki are older than the senju, then the senju can't be related to the sage.

Both possibly wrong because you are basing this on the assumption that the Uzumaki and Hyuuga were descendants of the Senju and Uchiha. It never said that. It stated they were distant blood relatives. So the opposite that the Senju and Uchiha were descendants of the Uzumaki and Hyuuga could also be true. But if the latter is true the real question is... What family or what surname did the SO6P carry? He could very likely be an Uzumaki or a Hyuuga. (And yes, I'm sure clans existed back then, but not for the same purpose or reason as the Shinobi of today) When the two sons were born the DNA was split into what we know as Uchiha and Senju. The other question is then who was their mom? Just for laughs, maybe the sage was an uzumaki and his woman was a hyuuga? That would explain everything, and it would also be a foreshadowing of Naruhina hahaha

 

[TimeMask]

Just because they founded the village doesn't mean they were the oldest clans at the time...it wasnt just senju and uchiha at first. U need multiple clans in order to start a village. They were probably the most powerful and influential.

Kakashi said the Hyuga were the oldest clan in Konoha which is different from saying they are one of the oldest clans. Were does it suggest the Hyuga were the most powerful and influential?

Kishi either changed his mind about the Hyuga or he worded wrong what Kakashi said.

 

[Griffith]

Both possibly wrong because you are basing this on the assumption that the Uzumaki and Hyuuga were descendants of the Senju and Uchiha. It never said that. It stated they were distant blood relatives. So the opposite that the Senju and Uchiha were descendants of the Uzumaki and Hyuuga could also be true. But if the latter is true the real question is... What family or what surname did the SO6P carry? He could very likely be an Uzumaki or a Hyuuga. (And yes, I'm sure clans existed back then, but not for the same purpose or reason as the Shinobi of today) When the two sons were born the DNA was split into what we know as Uchiha and Senju. The other question is then who was their mom? Just for laughs, maybe the sage was an uzumaki and his woman was a hyuuga? That would explain everything, and it would also be a foreshadowing of Naruhina hahaha

exactly what i said lol, for some reason people cannot fathom the Senju and Uchiha being descended from anyone other than the sage himself. And they assume Kishimoto is 'wrong' about the Hyuga being older...how can the author be wrong?? Fallacy in assumption.

 

[Griffith]

Kakashi said the Hyuga were the oldest clan in Konoha which is different from saying they are one of the oldest clans. Were does it suggest the Hyuga were the most powerful and influential?

Kishi either changed his mind about the Hyuga or he worded wrong what Kakashi said.

I never said the Hyuga were the most powerful...i was talking about the Uchiha and the Senju. Hashirama also married Uzumaki Mito, and its heavily implied that the Uzumaki were an older clan. So this means the Senju weren't the oldest when the village was founded...just the most influential

 

[Akx19]

exactly what i said lol, for some reason people cannot fathom the Senju and Uchiha being descended from anyone other than the sage himself. And they assume Kishimoto is 'wrong' about the Hyuga being older...how can the author be wrong?? Fallacy in assumption.

Agreed. But while I believe the Senju and Uchiha were of Uzumaki and Hyuuga origin, It still doesn't make us right until proven. So nobody is wrong and nobody is right... Yet! Everything is still just a theory.

 

[Griffith]

Agreed. But while I believe the Senju and Uchiha were of Uzumaki and Hyuuga origin, It still doesn't make us right until proven. So nobody is wrong and nobody is right... Yet! Everything is still just a theory.

Everything is conjecture until proven otherwise. I definitely agree. Respect.

 

[Q of the Sharingan]

Both possibly wrong because you are basing this on the assumption that the Uzumaki and Hyuuga were descendants of the Senju and Uchiha. It never said that. It stated they were distant blood relatives. So the opposite that the Senju and Uchiha were descendants of the Uzumaki and Hyuuga could also be true. But if the latter is true the real question is... What family or what surname did the SO6P carry? He could very likely be an Uzumaki or a Hyuuga. (And yes, I'm sure clans existed back then, but not for the same purpose or reason as the Shinobi of today) When the two sons were born the DNA was split into what we know as Uchiha and Senju. The other question is then who was their mom? Just for laughs, maybe the sage was an uzumaki and his woman was a hyuuga? That would explain everything, and it would also be a foreshadowing of Naruhina hahaha

That would be interesting and explain the first son's eyes. I just don't think that Hyuga came from the Sage's bloodline in the same manner the Uchiha did, especially with their lack of background and not being said to be able to read the stone tablet.

 

[TimeMask]

I never said the Hyuga were the most powerful...i was talking about the Uchiha and the Senju. Hashirama also married Uzumaki Mito, and its heavily implied that the Uzumaki were an older clan. So this means the Senju weren't the oldest when the village was founded...just the most influential

You didn't say which clan you were talking about. What you are saying now wasn't shown in part 1 so when Kakashi said in part 1 that the Hyuga were the oldest clan in Konoha that was almost a fact at the time but then Kishi changed this.

As he made the Uchiha and Senju founding clans of Konoha in part 2. So Kishi has changed what he said before.

 

[lion fang master]

stop all this Q, we have seen juubi, the hyuga are just another clan that probably came up from the descendant of the 2 brothers. They see chakra and distance same thing the uchiha see but with less abilities

 

[Griffith]

That would be interesting and explain the first son's eyes. I just don't think that Hyuga came from the Sage's bloodline in the same manner the Uchiha did, especially with their lack of background and not being said to be able to read the stone tablet.

the lack of info regarding the hyuga is intentional i feel...they are the only other doujutsu in the series (excluding rinnegan) there has to be a catch. The stone tablet is meant for the uchiha...whose to say the hyuga don't have some sort of clan secret that can be decoded. And how do u explain this?

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You can't just dismiss canon based off ur skepticism of the author.