Transcendence
Active member
Hello all. This thread is here to establish 2 premises; 1. Why Naruto and Sasuke are not representations of the two sons of the SO6P and 2. To hypothesize what power-ups Naruto and Sasuke will need to surpass Hashirama and Madara to become the two most powerful ninja in the manga.
Part 1: Establishing the falsity of the Naruto-Sasuke son parallel
Other's insist that Naruto represents the Younger Son much like Sasuke represents the Elder Son of Rikudou Sennin, this is a great falsity.
The Elder and Younger Sons represent the Eye and Body of the Juubi:
The Mokuton (Senju) is the Body of the Juubi:
The Sharingan (Uchiha) is from the Eye of the Juubi:
Rikudou Sennin who was an Uzumaki Priest (Theorized by Derp Obito prominently) who sealed the Juubi inside himself, thus becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki, in becoming it's host, he transcended from the Human Rikudou to the Divine Rikudou (Uchiha(Juubi's Yin) Senju(Juubi's Yang)
The equation is:
Uzumaki (Rikudou Sennin) + Juubi = Senju (Mokuton/Yang) and Uchiha (Sharingan/Yin)
The Rikudou Sennin divided the Juubi into Yin and Yang
Seen here when Madara describes the Yin and Yang parallel:
The Juubi's Yang became the Younger Son and his descendant Senjus:
The Juubi's Yin became the Elder Son and his descendant Uchihas:
Naruto represents Rikudou Sennin himself:
He represents the Human Rikudou, The Uzumaki Rikudou who fought the Juubi:
Naruto does not represent the Senju Ancestor because that it would mean Naruto represents the Body of the Juubi which is absurd.
The Dichotomy of Destroyer and Savior is represented by the Juubi and Naruto.
Sasuke is the embodiment of both the Elder and Younger Sons:
Because as an Uchiha, he willfully accepted the Senju's Will of Fire.
Thus the reharmonization of the two sibling clans is embodied by Sasuke.
Sasuke's dichotomy then is with Madara, who represents the old curse of hatred:
That concludes part 1. I'd like to make a note, that part 1's pictures (and part 2's) were all given to me by Sir Derp Obito and the premises of part 1 is of our combined knowledged. You can say part 1 is a collaboration of sorts. Part 2 however is all of my own merit. But most credit to Derp especially for getting the scans.
Part 2: Establishing the power-ups for Naruto and Sasuke
A hugely debated topic on the base as of late is about the power-ups Naruto and Sasuke will obtain. This part of the thread is here to establish what I think each of the two main characters will achieve before the end of the series, and their subsequent rise to being the two most powerful in the manga.
The Sage had to choose a successor of his will. He heard the testimonies of both sons; the Elder Son believing that Power was the true path to peace (Rather control more so than power) and the Younger son believing Love was the path to peace. On his death bed he sympathized with the Younger sons views and chose him as his successor. This angered his Elder Son and caused him to go in to a rage type mode and attack his brother out of spite. Their descendants would be called the Uchiha and the Senju.
The above is common knowledge for Naruto fans.
Now, why is this relevant? Because of the two most powerful characters in the manga; Hashirama Senju and Madara Uchiha. Why is this important? Because of their views. Hashirama always believed in compromise and love, whereas Madara’s views paralleled the Elder Son’s views (Wanting to be leader of the village to make sure the Senju didn’t suppress the Uchiha), and in turn feuded against Hashirama after he found out the next Hokage wouldn’t be him. Sounds familiar? Yup. Extremely similar to the two sons of the S06P.
And what are Hashirama and Madara? Senju and Uchiha. They are the exact embodiments of the two sons. Hashirama being the peak of the Younger son and Madara being the peak of the Elder Son. They are respective descendants of the sons, whereas Naruto isn’t a Senju and only Sasuke is part of the Elder Son’s line of descent. This is also why they don’t represent the Elder-Younger parallel (This much was established in part 1, this is just reiterating that theme).
Here is where Naruto intersects from the parallel. He plays an even bigger role than anyone else; He’s the main character and it was foreshadowed by the strongest being in the Narutoverse, that one day they will be lead down the right path, and all the Bijuu’s acknowledged Naruto.
Establishing the Power-Ups (Naruto)
Here is a page where the Fox silhouette appeared over Naruto. He had recently obtained Sage Mode, but this page foreshadowed where his next power-up would come from; The fox. And what was Naruto’s next power-up? Kyuubi chakra mode. After that? Bijuu Mode.
Now in the recent chapter we now know that Minato has the Yin portion of Kurama’s chakra. We know this because the seal on his belly is flipped in comparison to Naruto’s to differentiate the Yin and Yang chakras. It is without a doubt that Naruto will gain the Yin portion of Kurama’s chakra but what does this have to do with his next-power up other than more chakra? Bijuu Sage Mode. The picture that Naruto is shown confronting Nagato foreshadowed the combination of both.
Benefits of it:
- Sage Mode amplifies Ninjutsu techniques. In Bijuu mode Naruto’s destructive power rivals that of Hashirama and Madara (But not there yet). Sage mode combined with Bijuu mode would make his techs that much more monstrous.
- Benefits from Danger sensing in Sage Mode.
- Immense strength, Taijutsu and reflexes.
- Frog Kata.
However the major flaw after this is; Hashirama still is more powerful than Naruto. Hashirama can easily suppress Naruto in base Mode and renders Naruto useless. Sage Mode Hashirama would just stomp Naruto.
What does Naruto need?
Well… Naruto is said to be the one to lead the Bijuu’s along the right path. The Sage of the Six Paths sympathized with his younger son because he shared the same views as him. But what made it all the more prominent was that that Sage was obscenely powerful. He was a Jinchuriki+Dojutsu host. This is what will happen with Naruto.
The last time Naruto had a silhouette appeared above Naruto, it foreshadowed his next power-up(s). This time is no different. Naruto will become the next Sage of the Six Paths, no doubt. And for that to happen he will achieve similar power to him (Bijuu Sage Mode probably rivals just Juubi, but not as powerful).
But people will say that Naruto needs Uchiha DNA/Eyes. Well… all the evidence leads us to believe the Sage gained the Rinnegan AFTER he sealed the Juubi within him. Naruto has gained nearly the entire collection of the Juubi’s collective pieces, minus the 8 Tails (The silhouette showed us the 1-tail, so it may be a retcon and he has the 1 tails chakra as well). Once Naruto gains it, like Derp has hypothesized, Rikudou’s chakra essence will appear in Naruto’s psyche. He will speak with Naruto, we will learn his back story and how to “defeat” the Juubi. When Naruto comes out of it, he will gain the Rinnegan and the ability to use Yin-Yang release to aid in splitting the Juubi (Creation of all things is the highest variant of Yin-Yang release)
But that’s enough for Naruto, let’s get on to Sasuke.
Establishing power-ups (Sasuke)
As an Uchiha, Sasuke has gained what is the ultimate pair of eyes; the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan. What we have seen from the other EMS user is that they gain the ability to use Perfect Susanoo. This ability alone puts Sasuke on par with current Naruto, if not surpassing him. Add this on to his already immense mastery of Enton, and his Perfect Susanoo will rival Madara’s. Sasuke will probably learn how to stabilize as well.
Also, as the main Uchiha in the series he is bound to become the most powerful of them, this is not rocket Science.
What is one of the most powerful techniques an Uchiha can use? Izanagi. Sasuke has already seen Izanagi and knows the mechanics behind it. We know that Danzo’s extra eyes let him use it a lot but those eyes would be blinded after the minute expired. Obito has what he considers the “Perfect Izanagi” but his eyes he uses still goes blind after using it.
Sasuke has the EMS. When Itachi was explaining the EMS, he said it gives birth to an entirely new Dojutsu and an Eternal source of light.
We have never seen an EMS user use Izanagi because of the inherent effects of it, but it is my thought that an EMS user WOULD NOT GO BLIND after using it, therefore perfecting the tech itself. Itachi himself said it was an eternal source of light, therefore it is logical to assume that an EMS user would not be blinded by the use of Izanagi; however it would take a good amount of chakra to use.
There is one more matter to discuss; a New Dojutsu.
Before reading this, read this theory by Amarusboobs, to understand the premise:
All of the powerful Uchiha’s in the manga minus Itachi and Shisui have descended in to darkness and have not come back. This applies to Sasuke, however Sasuke is the first of them to actually turn his hatred around and follows his brother’s will, which is akin to the will of Fire.
We know that Uchiha’s get stronger the more hate they have, but what would happen if an Uchiha reverted that hatred while they already have the ultimate reflection of hatred (EMS)? The Elder Son’s Dojutsu.
Why you say?
The Elder son, wasn’t born bearing hatred, he gained it AFTER his father chose his brother. It is logical to assume he loved his father immensely (While also having his own Dojutsu) and the hatred spawned after the decision. Sasuke already hit the peak of his hatred; now he seems to be reverting back to good. This will also be reflected in his eyes as all the Uchiha’s powers do.
It is also to signify Sasuke’s loyalty to his Uchiha heritage. The Dojutsu will rival the Rinnegan in power as well, but not surpass it.
Rinnegan > ESD (Not by much)
Perfect Susanoo > Bijuu Sage Mode (Even with all the power, the Susanoo is basically impenetrable unless you can punch as hard as Tsunade, which Naruto can’t even in Sage Mode)
Perfect Izanagi=Naruto’s Speed/Reflexes (Izanagi would bail him out against Naruto’s speed and sensing)
Therefore, it still makes them relatively equal but lets them be Overpowered, only letting them rival each other. These power-ups let them surpass Madara and Hashirama as the two strongest in the series.
Before anyone says: “Naruto can’t get Rinnegan and even if he did he would destroy Sasuke” read the entire thread before commenting. Kishi has used obvious foreshadowing when he foreshadows Naruto and Sasuke's power-ups, so this is a logical assumption.
Example of Naruto with Rinnegan:
Example of Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo stabilized:
This is Madara's Susanoo with Sasuke's colouring. This is to display the scale of what Sasuke's will be, but his own characteristics will be something akin to this (Albeit on Madara's scale):
Part 1: Establishing the falsity of the Naruto-Sasuke son parallel
Other's insist that Naruto represents the Younger Son much like Sasuke represents the Elder Son of Rikudou Sennin, this is a great falsity.
You must be registered for see images
The Elder and Younger Sons represent the Eye and Body of the Juubi:
The Mokuton (Senju) is the Body of the Juubi:
You must be registered for see images
The Sharingan (Uchiha) is from the Eye of the Juubi:
You must be registered for see images
Rikudou Sennin who was an Uzumaki Priest (Theorized by Derp Obito prominently) who sealed the Juubi inside himself, thus becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki, in becoming it's host, he transcended from the Human Rikudou to the Divine Rikudou (Uchiha(Juubi's Yin) Senju(Juubi's Yang)
You must be registered for see images
The equation is:
Uzumaki (Rikudou Sennin) + Juubi = Senju (Mokuton/Yang) and Uchiha (Sharingan/Yin)
The Rikudou Sennin divided the Juubi into Yin and Yang
Seen here when Madara describes the Yin and Yang parallel:
You must be registered for see images
The Juubi's Yang became the Younger Son and his descendant Senjus:
You must be registered for see images
The Juubi's Yin became the Elder Son and his descendant Uchihas:
You must be registered for see images
Naruto represents Rikudou Sennin himself:
You must be registered for see images
He represents the Human Rikudou, The Uzumaki Rikudou who fought the Juubi:
You must be registered for see images
Naruto does not represent the Senju Ancestor because that it would mean Naruto represents the Body of the Juubi which is absurd.
The Dichotomy of Destroyer and Savior is represented by the Juubi and Naruto.
Sasuke is the embodiment of both the Elder and Younger Sons:
You must be registered for see images
Because as an Uchiha, he willfully accepted the Senju's Will of Fire.
Thus the reharmonization of the two sibling clans is embodied by Sasuke.
Sasuke's dichotomy then is with Madara, who represents the old curse of hatred:
You must be registered for see images
That concludes part 1. I'd like to make a note, that part 1's pictures (and part 2's) were all given to me by Sir Derp Obito and the premises of part 1 is of our combined knowledged. You can say part 1 is a collaboration of sorts. Part 2 however is all of my own merit. But most credit to Derp especially for getting the scans.
Part 2: Establishing the power-ups for Naruto and Sasuke
A hugely debated topic on the base as of late is about the power-ups Naruto and Sasuke will obtain. This part of the thread is here to establish what I think each of the two main characters will achieve before the end of the series, and their subsequent rise to being the two most powerful in the manga.
You must be registered for see images
The Sage had to choose a successor of his will. He heard the testimonies of both sons; the Elder Son believing that Power was the true path to peace (Rather control more so than power) and the Younger son believing Love was the path to peace. On his death bed he sympathized with the Younger sons views and chose him as his successor. This angered his Elder Son and caused him to go in to a rage type mode and attack his brother out of spite. Their descendants would be called the Uchiha and the Senju.
The above is common knowledge for Naruto fans.
Now, why is this relevant? Because of the two most powerful characters in the manga; Hashirama Senju and Madara Uchiha. Why is this important? Because of their views. Hashirama always believed in compromise and love, whereas Madara’s views paralleled the Elder Son’s views (Wanting to be leader of the village to make sure the Senju didn’t suppress the Uchiha), and in turn feuded against Hashirama after he found out the next Hokage wouldn’t be him. Sounds familiar? Yup. Extremely similar to the two sons of the S06P.
And what are Hashirama and Madara? Senju and Uchiha. They are the exact embodiments of the two sons. Hashirama being the peak of the Younger son and Madara being the peak of the Elder Son. They are respective descendants of the sons, whereas Naruto isn’t a Senju and only Sasuke is part of the Elder Son’s line of descent. This is also why they don’t represent the Elder-Younger parallel (This much was established in part 1, this is just reiterating that theme).
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Here is where Naruto intersects from the parallel. He plays an even bigger role than anyone else; He’s the main character and it was foreshadowed by the strongest being in the Narutoverse, that one day they will be lead down the right path, and all the Bijuu’s acknowledged Naruto.
Establishing the Power-Ups (Naruto)
You must be registered for see images
Here is a page where the Fox silhouette appeared over Naruto. He had recently obtained Sage Mode, but this page foreshadowed where his next power-up would come from; The fox. And what was Naruto’s next power-up? Kyuubi chakra mode. After that? Bijuu Mode.
You must be registered for see images
Now in the recent chapter we now know that Minato has the Yin portion of Kurama’s chakra. We know this because the seal on his belly is flipped in comparison to Naruto’s to differentiate the Yin and Yang chakras. It is without a doubt that Naruto will gain the Yin portion of Kurama’s chakra but what does this have to do with his next-power up other than more chakra? Bijuu Sage Mode. The picture that Naruto is shown confronting Nagato foreshadowed the combination of both.
Benefits of it:
- Sage Mode amplifies Ninjutsu techniques. In Bijuu mode Naruto’s destructive power rivals that of Hashirama and Madara (But not there yet). Sage mode combined with Bijuu mode would make his techs that much more monstrous.
- Benefits from Danger sensing in Sage Mode.
- Immense strength, Taijutsu and reflexes.
- Frog Kata.
However the major flaw after this is; Hashirama still is more powerful than Naruto. Hashirama can easily suppress Naruto in base Mode and renders Naruto useless. Sage Mode Hashirama would just stomp Naruto.
What does Naruto need?
Well… Naruto is said to be the one to lead the Bijuu’s along the right path. The Sage of the Six Paths sympathized with his younger son because he shared the same views as him. But what made it all the more prominent was that that Sage was obscenely powerful. He was a Jinchuriki+Dojutsu host. This is what will happen with Naruto.
You must be registered for see images
The last time Naruto had a silhouette appeared above Naruto, it foreshadowed his next power-up(s). This time is no different. Naruto will become the next Sage of the Six Paths, no doubt. And for that to happen he will achieve similar power to him (Bijuu Sage Mode probably rivals just Juubi, but not as powerful).
But people will say that Naruto needs Uchiha DNA/Eyes. Well… all the evidence leads us to believe the Sage gained the Rinnegan AFTER he sealed the Juubi within him. Naruto has gained nearly the entire collection of the Juubi’s collective pieces, minus the 8 Tails (The silhouette showed us the 1-tail, so it may be a retcon and he has the 1 tails chakra as well). Once Naruto gains it, like Derp has hypothesized, Rikudou’s chakra essence will appear in Naruto’s psyche. He will speak with Naruto, we will learn his back story and how to “defeat” the Juubi. When Naruto comes out of it, he will gain the Rinnegan and the ability to use Yin-Yang release to aid in splitting the Juubi (Creation of all things is the highest variant of Yin-Yang release)
But that’s enough for Naruto, let’s get on to Sasuke.
Establishing power-ups (Sasuke)
As an Uchiha, Sasuke has gained what is the ultimate pair of eyes; the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan. What we have seen from the other EMS user is that they gain the ability to use Perfect Susanoo. This ability alone puts Sasuke on par with current Naruto, if not surpassing him. Add this on to his already immense mastery of Enton, and his Perfect Susanoo will rival Madara’s. Sasuke will probably learn how to stabilize as well.
Also, as the main Uchiha in the series he is bound to become the most powerful of them, this is not rocket Science.
You must be registered for see images
What is one of the most powerful techniques an Uchiha can use? Izanagi. Sasuke has already seen Izanagi and knows the mechanics behind it. We know that Danzo’s extra eyes let him use it a lot but those eyes would be blinded after the minute expired. Obito has what he considers the “Perfect Izanagi” but his eyes he uses still goes blind after using it.
You must be registered for see images
Sasuke has the EMS. When Itachi was explaining the EMS, he said it gives birth to an entirely new Dojutsu and an Eternal source of light.
You must be registered for see images
We have never seen an EMS user use Izanagi because of the inherent effects of it, but it is my thought that an EMS user WOULD NOT GO BLIND after using it, therefore perfecting the tech itself. Itachi himself said it was an eternal source of light, therefore it is logical to assume that an EMS user would not be blinded by the use of Izanagi; however it would take a good amount of chakra to use.
There is one more matter to discuss; a New Dojutsu.
Before reading this, read this theory by Amarusboobs, to understand the premise:
You must be registered for see links
All of the powerful Uchiha’s in the manga minus Itachi and Shisui have descended in to darkness and have not come back. This applies to Sasuke, however Sasuke is the first of them to actually turn his hatred around and follows his brother’s will, which is akin to the will of Fire.
You must be registered for see images
We know that Uchiha’s get stronger the more hate they have, but what would happen if an Uchiha reverted that hatred while they already have the ultimate reflection of hatred (EMS)? The Elder Son’s Dojutsu.
Why you say?
You must be registered for see images
The Elder son, wasn’t born bearing hatred, he gained it AFTER his father chose his brother. It is logical to assume he loved his father immensely (While also having his own Dojutsu) and the hatred spawned after the decision. Sasuke already hit the peak of his hatred; now he seems to be reverting back to good. This will also be reflected in his eyes as all the Uchiha’s powers do.
It is also to signify Sasuke’s loyalty to his Uchiha heritage. The Dojutsu will rival the Rinnegan in power as well, but not surpass it.
Rinnegan > ESD (Not by much)
Perfect Susanoo > Bijuu Sage Mode (Even with all the power, the Susanoo is basically impenetrable unless you can punch as hard as Tsunade, which Naruto can’t even in Sage Mode)
Perfect Izanagi=Naruto’s Speed/Reflexes (Izanagi would bail him out against Naruto’s speed and sensing)
Therefore, it still makes them relatively equal but lets them be Overpowered, only letting them rival each other. These power-ups let them surpass Madara and Hashirama as the two strongest in the series.
Before anyone says: “Naruto can’t get Rinnegan and even if he did he would destroy Sasuke” read the entire thread before commenting. Kishi has used obvious foreshadowing when he foreshadows Naruto and Sasuke's power-ups, so this is a logical assumption.
Example of Naruto with Rinnegan:
You must be registered for see images
Example of Sasuke's Perfect Susanoo stabilized:
You must be registered for see images
This is Madara's Susanoo with Sasuke's colouring. This is to display the scale of what Sasuke's will be, but his own characteristics will be something akin to this (Albeit on Madara's scale):
You must be registered for see images
