How would Naruto Manga be without Naruto Uzumaki being the Main character??!!

[maniaoqan]

noooooooooooooooooo!!

You're just jalous. No need to be jalous. Tobidara reality will be realized !!

 

[Narutohokage324]

"I was always chasing you" panel

And no Sasuke never gave a shit about Naruto till 699.Even in 700 and in the Sakura novel AND the Last he is away from the village

Not true at all.

Sasuke has been chasing Naruto the same way Naruto has been chasing Sasuke. In Naruto part 1 where Naruto begins to catch up, Sasuke begins to praise him secretly.

"I want to fight you too Naruto"

or

"When did Naruto change so suddenly?"

or

"When did Naruto become so strong?"

,etc.

The list goes on, actually. The question is, do you want manga scans to back my claims? Because I have some of these in my bookmark.

Spoiler

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Funny enough even with this "Sasuke" in part 2 that "supposedly" does not care about him, begins to doubt himself for a moment when Naruto unleashes BM Mode

 

[Shruikan]

The story starts off with Naruto, and his past revelence with the Fox Spirit being sealed in him. Just replace Sasuke with any other random character and have him develop with Naruto and start a rivalry and bromance.

The future Sasuke is irreplaceable.

I am not talking about ifs and buts as regards character replacement as that is up to personal intrepretation.I am just stating facts here when I say that when you remove Sasuke from the story the manga does not exist

 

[Narutohokage324]

I am not talking about ifs and buts as regards character replacement as that is up to personal intrepretation.I am just stating facts here when I say that when you remove Sasuke from the story the manga does not exist

The Sasuke we were talking about was in Part 1, though I'm pretty sure that answer was given in my last post.

I don't believe that is right. Sasuke's only relevance to this manga ended with Itachi and the massacare, which then had to be forced into the War Arc by Edo-Tensei Itachi which then led to him being used as a plot device one again to bring Edo-Tensei's into the battlefield. With Naruto's story Part 1 aside, we still had the Kazekage retrieval arc, Akatsuki Arc, Pain Arc, and then the War Arc. This is stating without being a rival to Naruto which we both know is not a characterization itself that affected the manga in which anyone else such as a villian could have became. Imagine Naruto growing up to defeat Pain/Obito instead of having this Yin/Yang dispute.

Realistically his character could have gone and these arcs would have been enjoyable all the same.

 

[Shruikan]

Not true at all.

Sasuke has been chasing Naruto the same way Naruto has been chasing Sasuke.

I am not denying they were each other's idols

The guy I am arguing with refuses to admit that Naruto also chased Sasuke and keeps putting 699 in my face

Funny enough even with this "Sasuke" in part 2 that "supposedly" does not care about him, begins to doubt himself for a moment when Naruto unleashes BM Mode

I am not denying they did care about each other as rivals

However,Naruto was downright obsessed with Sasuke as I put in my earlier post.Sasuke was not obsessed with Naruto on the same extent
Who turned 4 tails for Sasuke?
Who cried for Sasuke?
Who endured his face being punched into oblivion for Sasuke
Who bowed his head in the snow before Raikage
Who hyperventilated over him?

Theres more I cant be bothered to type now .I never denied they cared for each other as rivals.

 

[take it easy]

"I was always chasing you" panel

That's was pre war arc Naruto, in war arc Sasuke was one who chased Naruto

And no Sasuke never gave a shit about Naruto till 699.Even in 700 and in the Sakura novel AND the Last he is away from the village

You're my only friend (chapter 696 or 697)

Thats funny because Naruto himself is one over Sasuke

... Was once in kage summit arc.

 

[Narutohokage324]

I am not denying they were each other's idols

Not my battle to win for him then

I
I am not denying they did care about each other as rivals

However,Naruto was downright obsessed with Sasuke as I put in my earlier post.Sasuke was not obsessed with Naruto on the same extent
Who turned 4 tails for Sasuke?
Who cried for Sasuke?
Who endured his face being punched into oblivion for Sasuke
Who bowed his head in the snow before Raikage
Who hyperventilated over him?

Theres more I cant be bothered to type now .I never denied they cared for each other as rivals.

I actually thought some of these were redeeming qualities for Naruto's character. Even with Sasuke labeled as a rogue, even Naruto understood he did nothing more than get his revenge for Itachi. Stating himself that "why has he not returned to the village", hell even Konoha shinobi praised Sasuke before it was known he joined the Akatsuki to take down the Leaf itself. Though yes Naruto was more emotional when it came to Sasuke, that should not be surprising when his character is based on his emotions, and how he affects everyone else's emotions. Even Sasuke in the end cried for him too, so I don't see why people like to bash his character for being a good friend.

Anyway it was explained why he cared a lot for Sasuke too.

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With their very limited amount of physical and emotional bonding, their bond was more spiritual than anything. That or Naruto is really bad with expressing himself XD

 

[Shruikan]

The Sasuke we were talking about in Part 1 Haku scene, though I'm pretty sure that answer was given in my last post.

I was only saying without Sasuke this entire manga does not exist.Saying who can be replaced with whom is irrelevant when Naruto himself was actually designed not to be a ninja but working in a ramen shop but was replaced with the Naruo we see now
If you remove Sasuke,you also effectively end up remodeling Naruto with no Sasuke in him

Sasuke's only relevance to this manga ended with Itachi and the massacare,

And that Naruto kickstarted his serious training on seeing Sasuke's potential.Naruto's will of strength till that arc is solely attributed to Sasuke.

Edo-Tensei Itachi which then led to him being used as a plot device one again to bring Edo-Tensei's into the battlefield.

No Edo Itachi and Sasuke meeting was done to clear up the misunderstandings between the two brothers which existed in the earlier arc.Sasuke finally got to know the truth behind Itachi's betrayal from the man himself
Summoning of the edo tenseis was a huge benefit to Naruto and the others in the war an it being a plot device is attributed to Oro NOT Sasuke as Oro did nothing much apart from that

With Naruto's story Part 1 aside, we still had the Kazekage retrieval arc, Pain Arc, and then the War Arc

At the beginning of that arc itself we see Naruto once again saying and insisting many times that he wants to bring Sasuke back.That main goal was never sidelined.In between you completely forgot the Sasuke retrieval Arc which resulted in him starting his serious training enabling him to beat One Akatsuki member and also learn the signature move he used against Pain which in the absence of Sasuke he would never learn.
The War would also be impossible to win without Sasuke.There are many moments in the War where Sasuke is irreplaceable

This is stating without being a rival to Naruto which we both know is not a characterization itself that affected the manga in which anyone else such as a villian could have became. Imagine Naruto growing up to defeat Pain/Obito instead of having this Yin/Yang dispute.

Realistically his character could have gone and these arcs would have been enjoyable all the same.

To summarise Part 2,its mostly a entire Sasuke retrieval part all by itself with some villains thrown here and there for variety simpyl because Naruto always mentioned his main goals in the arcs you mentioned.
Heck,if we are talking plot relevance,that Child of Prophecy shit was asspulled into the story to inject Naruto with more relevance itself

 

[Shruikan]

That's was pre war arc Naruto, in war arc Sasuke was one who chased Naruto

No both Naruto and Sasuke "Chased" each other throughout the series.699 Is a parallel to their earlier fight where Naruto admits that he chased Sasuke

You're my only friend (chapter 696 or 697)

And yet he says "I dont care what you think about me" .I am saying throughout the manga its shown Sasuke does not give a damn about what Naruto wants.The hyper ventilation was a reason for this

... Was once in kage summit arc.

Once?First he cried at Oro's hideout.Second he buried his head and cried in the snow before Raikage and third at the kage summit.And this is discounting when he let his Sasuke obsession go to his head making him go four tails in a fit of rage

 

[Narutohokage324]

I was only saying without Sasuke this entire manga does not exist.Saying who can be replaced with whom is irrelevant when Naruto himself was actually designed not to be a ninja but working in a ramen shop but was replaced with the Naruo we see now
If you remove Sasuke,you also effectively end up remodeling Naruto with no Sasuke in him

This is true, and which you stated that he could of been replaced. I just stated that it was possible, and that Naruto cannot be replaceable. The beginning of this manga had started with Naruto, and Naruto alone. Funny enough characters like Sasuke and Sakura made their appearances later in the chapters (3 or 4 I believe)

And that Naruto kickstarted his serious training on seeing Sasuke's potential.Naruto's will of strength till that arc is solely attributed to Sasuke.

Except Naruto's strength in Part one derived from him wanting to become the Hokage, without Sasuke, it would obviously return back to his original goal. Surely both of them pushed each-other, that has been evident since the tree climbing bit.

ANo Edo Itachi and Sasuke meeting was done to clear up the misunderstandings between the two brothers which existed in the earlier arc.Sasuke finally got to know the truth behind Itachi's betrayal from the man himself
Summoning of the edo tenseis was a huge benefit to Naruto and the others in the war an it being a plot device is attributed to Oro NOT Sasuke as Oro did nothing much apart from that

Yes and go re-read the part which Itachi's words benefited into Sasuke wanting to help in the War Arc. Even Shisui's part in his story with Itachi affected Sasuke's decision, which later opened up the seal to Orochimaru and the Edo-Tensei'

ANoAt the beginning of that arc itself we see Naruto once again saying and insisting many times that he wants to bring Sasuke back.That main goal was never sidelined.In between you completely forgot the Sasuke retrieval Arc which resulted in him starting his serious training enabling him to beat One Akatsuki member and also learn the signature move he used against Pain which in the absence of Sasuke he would never learn.

Yes and that is exactly why I explain that Sasuke's entire character with Naruto made him worse, which in turn did not benefit the manga. I did not completely ignore the retrival arc for Sasuke, it is the fact that I chose to ignore it, which made the Manga arcs that did not need his character to seem important, which they did. Removing the absence of Sasuke just leads Naruto to wanting to become stronger than the past Hokage's which he stated in the earliest chapters of the manga.

ANoThe War would also be impossible to win without Sasuke.There are many moments in the War where Sasuke is irreplaceable

That's exactly why I said during the War Arc. Because you needed Sasuke to seal Kaguya in the first place, though I believe the entire Kaguya Arc was a last minute thing. You could tell it was rushed from the get-go, without Sasuke in the war Arc we just would not have had the Hokage's there or Orochimaru. I never doubted his importance in the Arc itself, but merely as if it was necessary on the bigger scale. Uchiha characters have surpassed his relevance and Naruto's, funny enough. Madara and Obito made great antagonists for Naruto as a character, and the series. Funny enough both of those characters are more connected to Naruto's story-line than anyone else. Leading up to Minato and the sealing of the Kyuubi

To summarise Part 2,its mostly a entire Sasuke retrieval part all by itself with some villains thrown here and there for variety simpyl because Naruto always mentioned his main goals in the arcs you mentioned.
Heck,if we are talking plot relevance,that Child of Prophecy shit was asspulled into the story to inject Naruto with more relevance itself

Not entirely. Naruto wanting to bring Sasuke back is a large part of this story, but it was pushed aside definitely into more of a Naruto wanting to catch up to Sasuke, and then it turned into something better when Naruto's goal got brought forward. With Jiraiya's death and the Pain Arc, which lead to Naruto meeting his father and learning the truth about his death and Obito/Madara. The story progressed further into more Sasuke, and then changed again during the early stages of the War Arc after Naruto's meets his mother Kushina. It all went full circle towards the end during the Naruto v. Sasuke battle.

It seemed pretty consistent to me, especially so if we begin to count Naruto's part one story too.


Though again I just want to point out that this argument is stupid seeing how both of these characters are important to PLOT. We should just drop it now before we go into circles.

 

[Shruikan]

This is true, and which you stated that he could of been replaced. I just stated that it was possible, and that Naruto cannot be replaceable. The beginning of this manga had started with Naruto, and Naruto alone. Funny enough characters like Sasuke and Sakura made their appearances later in the chapters (3 or 4 I believe)

When you remove Sasuke,you end up completely redefining Naruto which is basically replacing him.My point is you will have to many fundamental changes in the main character if you remove him and the story takes a completely different turn with no rival and the exisitng story cannot be maintained which is the subject matter of this thread

Except Naruto's strength in Part one derived from him wanting to become the Hokage, without Sasuke, it would obviously return back to his original goal. Surely both of them pushed each-other, that has been evident since the tree climbing bit.

Thats the problem.Him being Hokage was generally sidelined.It was mostly even in Part 1,Naruto wanting Sasuke to acknowledge his strength.That Hokage dream is just a placeholder otherwise without it he doesnt have any independant goal apart from beating Sasuke

Yes and go re-read the part which Itachi's words benefited into Sasuke wanting to help in the War Arc.

No that was Hashirama.He pondered upon the situation,realised what his brother would have really wanted and came to that decision.Thats just what I said that meeting up with Itachi cleared his mind.With the edo tensei Oro revived,he found someone to talk about Itachi's intentions which led to him finally coming to his decision.Itachi himself did not directly cause him to enter the war

Even Shisui's part in his story with Itachi affected Sasuke's decision, which later opened up the seal to Orochimaru and the Edo-Tensei'

No the Hokages were the one who who were responsible for his decision.Itachi's words alone did nothing

Yes and that is exactly why I explain that Sasuke's entire character with Naruto made him worse, which in turn did not benefit the manga. I did not completely ignore the retrival arc for Sasuke, it is the fact that I chose to ignore it, which made the Manga arcs that did not need his character seem more important, which they did. Removing the absence of Sasuke just leads Naruto to wanting to become stronger than the past Hokage's which he stated in the earliest chapters of the manga.

And in order to become stronger than all the Hokages,his sub goal was always to catch up to Sasuke.If you remove Sasuke,Naruto has literally no one to catch up to which ends up making the current manga redundant and you will have to write a new one making Naruto "independant" so to speak.

That's exactly why I said during the War Arc. Because you needed Sasuke to seal Kaguya in the first place, though I believe the entire Kaguya Arc was a last minute thing. You could tell it was rushed from the get-go, without Sasuke in the war Arc we just would not have had the Hokage's there or Orochimaru. I never doubted his importance in the Arc itself, but merely as if it was necessary on the bigger scale. Uchiha characters have surpassed his relevance and Naruto's, funny enough. Madara and Obito made great antagonists for Naruto as a character, and the series. Funny enough both of those characters are more connected to Naruto's story-line than anyone else. Leading up to Minato and the sealing of the Kyuubi

Yes Sasuke was having his own backstory and motives alongside Naruto.He had his relevance in the war arc in the grand cheme of these things.To be honest I just cant imaghine the War Arc without Sasuke.You will basically tear that arc in half making no sense on the other half Lol
Sasuke also fought more against Madara while Naruto fought more against Kaguya.Both MCs had their own story which eventially links them together indirectly in a manner that when you remove one the other does not exist and you have to completely reframe him

Not entirely. Naruto wanting to bring Sasuke back is a large part of this story, but it was pushed aside definitely into more of a Naruto wanting to catch up to Sasuke, and then it turned into something better when Naruto's goal got brought forward. With Jiraiya's death and the Pain Arc, which lead to Naruto meeting his father and learning the truth about his death and Obito/Madara. The story progressed further into more Sasuke, and then changed again during the early stages of the War Arc after Naruto's meets his mother Kushina. It all went full circle towards the end during the Naruto v. Sasuke battle.

It seemed pretty consistent to met.

No.Thats not the way I found it.Naruto's main goal was always Sasuke.These arcs were thrown in so as to add more variety and in order for the manga to not be single tracked
Naruto's goal of being Hokage was always sidelined by either the Akastsuki threat or Sasuke.It did not get much independant development
If you remove these villains,you are left with Naruto chasing Sasuke.If you remove this you are left with Naruto wanting to be Hokage but he became Hokage as he was acknowledged by all which was result of him fighting the Akatsuki and saving the village and bringing Sasuke back in the first place

His Hokage dream did not get independant development so to speak.

 

[Narutohokage324]

Just gonna give my final say in this before I head to sleep. Pointless argument since it goes in circles anyway lol

When you remove Sasuke,you end up completely redefining Naruto which is basically replacing him.My point is you will have to many fundamental changes in the main character if you remove him and the story takes a completely different turn with no rival and the exisitng story cannot be maintained which is the subject matter of this thread

I agree, but the change is not fundamentally drastic. It is still the same Naruto, just stronger ideals and passion.

Thats the problem.Him being Hokage was generally sidelined.It was mostly even in Part 1,Naruto wanting Sasuke to acknowledge his strength.That Hokage dream is just a placeholder otherwise without it he doesnt have any independant goal apart from beating Sasuke

Though with the story, Naruto wanting to become Hokage was sidelined, it was brought together too with instances of Naruto wanting to surpass the Hokage's and the Fourth Hokage (rasen shuriken arc). The problem is what you explained already, but that only happened in Part 2.

TNo that was Hashirama.He pondered upon the situation,realised what his brother would have really wanted and came to that decision.Thats just what I said that meeting up with Itachi cleared his mind.With the edo tensei Oro revived,he found someone to talk about Itachi's intentions which led to him finally coming to his decision.Itachi himself did not directly cause him to enter the war

That's exactly why I stated that Itachi's decision affected the overall thought of Sasuke himself. He would of never wanted to talk to the Edo-Tensei's, nor resurrect Orochimaru. if it was not for what happened with him and Edo-Tensei. Yes he did, do you want me to VM you the manga scans?

And in order to become stronger than all the Hokages,his sub goal was always to catch up to Sasuke.If you remove Sasuke,Naruto has literally no one to catch up to which ends up making the current manga redundant and you will have to write a new one making Naruto "independant" so to speak.

It was original goal, and you are right it became his sub-goal before he could finally realize his dream. Though writing it all out would not affect his entire character from the core up. It would lead to a more mature Naruto though, wouldn't you say?

Yes Sasuke was having his own backstory and motives alongside Naruto.He had his relevance in the war arc in the grand cheme of these things.To be honest I just cant imaghine the War Arc without Sasuke.You will basically tear that arc in half making no sense on the other half Lol

Agreed to an extent. Because the war was mainly about the moon eye plan and capturing the Jinchuriki, the war could have left out a few characters. Sasuke's importance came with bringing the Edo's, Team 7 Reunion, and the obvious taking down JJ Madara/Kaguya. So after that it was obvious his character was needed without fail.

Sasuke also fought more against Madara while Naruto fought more against Kaguya.Both MCs had their own story which eventially links them together indirectly in a manner that when you remove one the other does not exist and you have to completely reframe him

lol Sasuke did not fight against Madara that links him into his own story.

Spoiler

Naruto can casually block any of the Sage ninjutsu techniques Madara has to offer with TSB (shusin too), while Sasuke can dodge them either shusin speed or S/T

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Naruto can also sense and react to Limbo as/when it happens (Rikudou Mode too) while Sasuke can see them directly.

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Sasuke was the only one out of the two capable of analyzing Limbo because he can actually "see" what is going on. Which puts Naruto at the disadvantage because he can only sense it, but I see no valid reason for him not being able to figure it out on his own through experience and his adaptability (JJ Obito fight for reference)

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Sasuke teleports both him and Naruto to Madara, but again. Seeing what RSM Naruto did to Kaguya, JJ Madara has no way of reacting to his blitz. (DB States that RSM Naruto has better speed/reflexes than Juubi Jin Madara anyway)

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As you see here Madara begins to run away, and Naruto tells Sasuke that he will stop the Limbo. As he is the only one who can seal it with TSB, giving Sasuke an opening.

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Conclusion?
He only was able to do well because because there was freaking Naruto too.
-Who stopped Madara in the middle of analyzing Amenotejikara? Naruto.
-Who sealed Limbo? Naruto.
-Who was fighting Madara head to head, giving Sasuke time to understand him and land sneakier attacks? Naruto.

Naruto fighting Kaguya by himself is barely credible, though more-so the Madara example. Seeing how BOTH of them were needed in the end result.

No.Thats not the way I found it.Naruto's main goal was always Sasuke.These arcs were thrown in so as to add more variety and in order for the manga to not be single tracked
Naruto's goal of being Hokage was always sidelined by either the Akastsuki threat or Sasuke.It did not get much independant development
If you remove these villains,you are left with Naruto chasing Sasuke.If you remove this you are left with Naruto wanting to be Hokage but he became Hokage as he was acknowledged by all which was result of him fighting the Akatsuki and saving the village and bringing Sasuke back in the first place

His Hokage dream did not get independant development so to speak.

Naruto's main goal was becoming Hokage, sadly the story made that hard to understand, but that was clear in the story itself and in the early chapters of the manga.

Honestly the story would have been far from better if it ended with the Pain arc.

 

[To Whatever]

How? I would need something other than a claim when the metaphorical implications of 'Tears of Blood' of Sharingan's metamorphosis and Amaterasu alone have several connotations running with them - the kind you can connect to the Clan's fictive past and human psychology. Knowing Sealing Techs is not good writing. Not even close.

How exactly would they have been better characters? You can always post more. I am always up for a literary debate. Nagato was a better character not because of his Clan, mind you.

I...

I don't remember posting in this thread.

But you're right, you would need something other than a claim when it's being compared to a clan that had development and was fleshed out. Regardless of that, tears of blood and the uchiha's mental issues aren't interesting in the slightest. It was very obvious that their curse wasn't one of hate but of love. Also, the many connotations you speak of are from the reader's opinion and not the series itself (unless i'm mistaken).

I didn't say knowing sealing techniques was good writing. Not to mention they didn't just know it, they were experts in it to the point where they were almost destroyed.They even had ties to a spectral entity. Not to mention the ability to basically imprint yourself into seals and automatically reinforce it.

What we know of the clan, it's members and politics it would have made for something better than or equal to the uchiha clan.

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Sealing techniques have a wide range of uses in the NV. From medical ninjustu and jinchuriki seals to keeping someone from talking and keeping places hidden.

Had Karin Naruto and Nagato actually been written with their clan in mind they would have been better. Say Karin actually knew where to find other uzumaki's in the world (and wasn't so obsessed with Sasuke) or Nagato actually knew uzumaki seals and knew a secret about his clan.

Everything was there in my opinion, it Would have been a lot more compelling. Naruto could have spent an arc finding his roots after the pain arc. Danzo's the one who makes the Uchha clan's story work what gives it that darkness that makes the edgies go nuts.
​

 

[SatanicGod]

I see you prefer more story about emo boy and co than a good story.

I see you don't even know what the word emo means, and love to bash a character. We get it you don't like Sasuke, doesn't mean you have to resort to name calling and try to pass on Naruto's story as a good one. Or are you seriously another Naruto rider that loves him just because he is the MC and you ride all MC's Lol

 

[SatanicGod]

Not true at all.

Sasuke has been chasing Naruto the same way Naruto has been chasing Sasuke. In Naruto part 1 where Naruto begins to catch up, Sasuke begins to praise him secretly.

"I want to fight you too Naruto"

or

"When did Naruto change so suddenly?"

or

"When did Naruto become so strong?"

,etc.

The list goes on, actually. The question is, do you want manga scans to back my claims? Because I have some of these in my bookmark.

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Funny enough even with this "Sasuke" in part 2 that "supposedly" does not care about him, begins to doubt himself for a moment when Naruto unleashes BM Mode

Little did Sasuke know, that Naruto literally had a monster completely made out of chakra inside of him Lol

 

[take it easy]

I see you don't even know what the word emo means, and love to bash a character. We get it you don't like Sasuke, doesn't mean you have to resort to name calling and try to pass on Naruto's story as a good one.

I know that Sasuke isn't emo in truly meaning of this word.

Or are you seriously another Naruto rider that loves him just because he is the MC and you ride all MC's Lol

Him being MC just cherry on the top.

I love his development... He got more devlopment that Sasuke IMO

 

[SatanicGod]

I know that Sasuke isn't emo in truly meaning of this word.



Him being MC just cherry on the top.

I love his development... He got more devlopment that Sasuke IMO

Well imho I believe the opposite, as well as the fact that I believe his development is better than Naruto's (imo) non-existent development

 

[shelke]

I...

I don't remember posting in this thread.

But you're right, you would need something other than a claim when it's being compared to a clan that had development and was fleshed out. Regardless of that, tears of blood and the uchiha's mental issues aren't interesting in the slightest. It was very obvious that their curse wasn't one of hate but of love. Also, the many connotations you speak of are from the reader's opinion and not the series itself (unless i'm mistaken).

I didn't say knowing sealing techniques was good writing. Not to mention they didn't just know it, they were experts in it to the point where they were almost destroyed.They even had ties to a spectral entity. Not to mention the ability to basically imprint yourself into seals and automatically reinforce it.

What we know of the clan, it's members and politics it would have made for something better than or equal to the uchiha clan.

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Sealing techniques have a wide range of uses in the NV. From medical ninjustu and jinchuriki seals to keeping someone from talking and keeping places hidden.

Had Karin Naruto and Nagato actually been written with their clan in mind they would have been better. Say Karin actually knew where to find other uzumaki's in the world (and wasn't so obsessed with Sasuke) or Nagato actually knew uzumaki seals and knew a secret about his clan.

Everything was there in my opinion, it Would have been a lot more compelling. Naruto could have spent an arc finding his roots after the pain arc. Danzo's the one who makes the Uchha clan's story work what gives it that darkness that makes the edgies go nuts.
​

Your quoted me on the fourth page, man.

Not necessarily. The author has left plenty of bread crumbs, and some times, he expects the reader to be knowledgeable enough to connect the dots. 'Tears of Blood' is straight out of Orthodox religious mythos, where the sinners thrown in hell persistently cry out of abject and eternal misery. The grief is so profound, that they spend their tears and blood starts trickling out of the tear ducts. There is also an idiom for that, that 'you will cry tears of blood if you don't stop what you are doing.' The idiom has direct relation to suffering and spending ones allotted tears in hell.

This quite smoothly transitions into suffering that is a prerequisite for MS unlocking and it's accompanied by 'Tears of blood' every single time. In fact, when Obito inadvertently uses Kamui he even states, "am I in hell?" Furthermore, the eye also continues to seal itself. That is nothing but more added misery, as the Clan that prides itself on its eyes has to sacrifice its light and continue on persistently and slowly towards the inevitable darkness - another metaphor for hell.

Combine all this with the 'literal' summoning of Black Flames from Hell accompanied by the Tears of Blood metaphor, and what you get, is an extended Metaphor: meaning, the theme of suffering and macabre romance is repeated within Uchiha Clan dynamics over and over again via the unwilling quest towards darkness, the bloody tears, the references - subtle or otherwise - towards hell, and the relentless quest towards light.

The 'curse' is a metaphorical term, because the clan cannot progress in ranks without knowing extreme suffering - a theme synonymous with hell. They have to look for light in the discarded eyes after their own MSs fail them. All the while endeavouring to quell the building factors of darkness within the clan in regards to poisonous foresight in form of Izanagi, and curbing on that arrogance through Izanami. You cannot simply consider the terms 'curse' and 'tears of blood' and 'sharingan' separately. All of them are linked to one another, and the motif is further complicated because the names are plucked out of Japanese Mythology as well.

Just imagine how much of human psychology is explored here. Quite a lot, and quite intricately. Amaterasu journeyed to hell. How many Uchihas face this hell - the motif references - on regular basis? Their eyes were double edged swords. At one hand, they have the unmatched power of foresight, and on the other, the same sight becomes a matter of a Limbo like factor for them, when in order to progress forward, their journey towards hell is inevitable. Again, don't take hell literally here, as even the hell in Mythologies has sparked a lot of debate in regards to human psyche and the darker sides of consciousness.

Coming to the rest of your post, because mine goes too far into the literary dissection category, what you are going for doesn't have anything to do with Depth. Note that, that the term 'Depth' is independent of circumstances within writing or the plausible plot points that lead up to it; it's associated with the clan itself. Sealing Tech is not an extended metaphor. Definitely not in terms of characterization and that's what I was referring to.

Sure, there is not a shadow of a doubt that your points on increasing the clan's importance via their background is most valid. But what will it add to their Depth as a clan? Would it really make any difference if they sealed things? What impact would that have on their group dynamics that would take on the shape of varied metaphors that might end up defining the individuals within the clan themselves?

Nagato's past is more dynamic because of what happened in Ame, and the political skirmishes. Sasuke - or any Uchiha - and Sharingan, and Uchiha cannot be separated from the political factors and the workings of their own Clan's emblem, the Sharingan. Here is why I stated that Uchiha Clan has that depth, that recurring elements of several Motifs that take on the shape of underlying allegories. You cannot say that for any single clan, not even a single one.

The depth is attained from several of these themes working side by side with Sharingan and the clan dynamics, and the politics. Can you really state for a fact that any clan even remotely matches this level of Depth and Plot Intricacy? There is a reason why Kishimoto doesn't devalue the Uchiha clan and Chose Sasuke as the plot Catalyst and the central character - because his clan and his background allows for it. It's too rich, with many layers of figurative factors shouldering it.

Can you really say that for Uzumaki clan? I don't think you can.

 

[take it easy]

Well imho I believe the opposite, as well as the fact that I believe his development is better than Naruto's (imo) non-existent development

Well developed character doesn't change mindset every appearance.

 

[SatanicGod]

Well developed character doesn't change mindset every appearance.

Lol his mindset never changed it all always had a common general agenda: revenge
and each "mindset" he had was completely understandable given the info HE had on the subject.

He wanted to kill his brother for killing his whole clan and leaving him alone. Then he found out that his brother actually loved him, and that the village ordered him to do the deed, and that killing the whole clan was the most painful experience for Itachi, to the point that he even recalled that Itachi was crying that night. So he wanted to destroy the very thing that made his beloved brother hurt so much...

But then, Sasuke found out that Itachi did it all for the sake of the village, that he loves very much. This starts to shake Sasuke's whole world, he begins to question what a village is, what a kage is, and what a clan is he wanted the truth, he wanted to uncover what drove Itachi to do what he did, he wanted to know what it is exactly that a village protects and what shinobi are about. So he sought the answers to these questions from the God of Shinobi, Senju Hashirama... And then upon hearing the answer to his questions, he decided that it was best that the current system was destroyed, and the birth of a new system rises... He decided that what his brother did was what a true Kage should be: selfless, willing to put aside family, clan, personal goals, all for the sake of the village and its citizens that you want to protect. He decided to take it upon himself to shoulder everybody's hatred (A more extreme version of what Naruto , the character, is all about) in order for them all to unite together, in order for them to achieve true peace against a common enemy.