How the Hyuuga actually stack up against Uchiha?

[Pyro NB]

Obito was a failure like Naruto. If anything he was below average and the bottom of his class like Naruto was. I was only using Obito was an example to show how powerful the sharigan is. The Byakugan isn't equivalent to the 3t and I'm not sure where people are getting this from. Byakugan can be rivaled with pure skills. Sharigan sees through everything.

Keyword is was a failure and was at the bottom of his class he was practically the conqueror of the shinobi world by the time he died.

I didn't say it was completely equal to sharingan but equal in terms of tracking speed. 3 tomoe sharingan enhances the users perception meaning they are able to mimic movements, see fast moving objects, predict body movements and even copy jutsu, and greater have greater genjutsu abilities. This compared to a Hyuga who has 360-degree vision which would effectively allow them to see and perceive incoming attacks, a combat style that only the basics could be mimicked by the sharingan but not as effective, and the ability to hit their opponent even if they miss damaging vital organs in the process and shutting the opponents chakra nature with each and every strike. Also due to the byakugans greater perception of chakra the user can see when their own chakra system is unbalanced and correct it. We also can't forget that the byakugan allows it's users to see up to a mile I believe unhindered rendering any chance of surprise attacks useless.

Based on this meaning average Hyuga with byakugan as the average Hyuga has it at birth vs the average Uchiha which wouldn't have sharingan but for the sake of argument well say has 3 tomoe. Each individual battle would come down to the combatants personal combat experience and battle strategy, up until the point that the Hyuga comes across an MS or EMS user which if there was a war going on will bound to be one at most two.

In conclusion, the Hyuga aren't a bunch of pushovers and on average they are equal but when you take out the average and the one or two exceptional Uchiha steps onto the battlefield with MS or EMS the Uchiha as a whole become superior.

 

[Dantee]

Keyword is was a failure and was at the bottom of his class he was practically the conqueror of the shinobi world by the time he died.

Yeah but Obito was pratically spoonfed hashis cells and everything that made him powerful at a very young age. I am only referring to his sharigan usage in kakashi gaiden.

I didn't say it was completely equal to sharingan but equal in terms of tracking speed. 3 tomoe sharingan enhances the users perception meaning they are able to mimic movements, see fast moving objects, predict body movements and even copy jutsu, and greater have greater genjutsu abilities.

How can it be equal to sharigan tracking speed? If Neji is the epitome of Hyuuga why did he tagged by White zetsu fodder in the war. Sasuke can keep up with kage level shinobi. Itachi was untouchable. At 1 tomoe Sarada is fighting off MS experiments. Obito was on par with jounin kid genius kakahi.

This compared to a Hyuga who has 360-degree vision which would effectively allow them to see and perceive incoming attacks, a combat style that only the basics could be mimicked by the sharingan but not as effective, and the ability to hit their opponent even if they miss damaging vital organs in the process and shutting the opponents chakra nature with each and every strike.

This means nothing. Other clans also have abilities or skills that let them battle shinobi. For example, Kibas nose, Shinos bugs and The Byakugans only advantage is to see 360 degrees almost everywhere at once. But they also have a blind spot that makes them get easily taken advantage of if known. Like Kiba using his nose to fight, Do you remember when Neji got knocked out in 1 punch by Naruto? Or when Neji still got taken from behind by white zetsu fodder.

Also due to the byakugans greater perception of chakra the user can see when their own chakra system is unbalanced and correct it. We also can't forget that the byakugan allows it's users to see up to a mile I believe unhindered rendering any chance of surprise attacks useless.

Just because they can see something doesn't mean they can react precisely enough to counter their opponents. Also not every byakugan can see the same distance.

Based on this meaning average Hyuga with byakugan as the average Hyuga has it at birth vs the average Uchiha which wouldn't have sharingan but for the sake of argument well say has 3 tomoe. Each individual battle would come down to the combatants personal combat experience and battle strategy, up until the point that the Hyuga comes across an MS or EMS user which if there was a war going on will bound to be one at most two.

I would like to see a Byakugan user with little combat experience fighting MS shins clones.

In conclusion, the Hyuga aren't a bunch of pushovers and on average they are equal but when you take out the average and the one or two exceptional Uchiha steps onto the battlefield with MS or EMS the Uchiha as a whole become superior.

In my opinion if Uchiha are the strongest clan it's only natural the average members would be above average.

 

[Prince Badman]

I have been reading almost all the comments...And most of the guys here unknowingly are prejudiced no offence to anyone but thats the truth......Well lets analyse this calmly.

First the Uchihas:- They are exceptional people who have been considered OP since the beginning of shinobi history. Their fight and rivalry against the Senju is the proof of that. But the fact that even in Uchiha only a few percentage of people can awaken the sharingan is a something to be considered. Lets say we take 100 Uchiha. Now taking a 60-40 chance that Uchiha can awaken the sharingan we get 60 uchiha with sharingans. Out of these 50 lets say 40 can go 3 tomoe. Now from these 40 i guess hardly 5 might be able to awaken the Mangekyo. Note the exceptional circumstances in which Mangekyo is awakened. The only known EMS bearer are Sasuke and Madara....so we can deduce that once in 3 generations someone can even come close to awakening EMS. Also a normal MS though OP consumes a lot of chakra and has side effects..... So keep in mind that a MS user will not use his MS recklessly. He will only use it in case of emergencies or while facing a really powerful enemy.....so out of 100 people we get to this

1 ems (highly unlikely)
4 MS (still rare)
35 3 tomoe (these are more common)
20 2t or 1t

and this is the best case scenario

now the Hyugas: They have been presented as a royal/noble family of Konoha. Before that we can only guess their history apart from the fact that they are descended from Hamura.
Out of 100 Hyuga most will be able to activate the byakugan(citation needed if their are any Hyuga who can't awaken the byakugan)
So for sake of debate lets say 80 awakened it. Amongst these 80 Hyuga not everyone will have a good byakugan percetion so lets assume that 20 are absolute fodder (but better than non sharingan Uchiha, probably equal to 1t Uchiha). Now lets say 35 are decent who can actually fight the 3t Uchiha. This is considering the fact that Hyuga Taijutsu is strong and they won't be so easily fooled by genjustsus. Now we can assume 20 are exceptional Byakugan users and 5 are elites. Now these 25 people might just be able to take on the 4 MS users if they attack at once and emerge victorious. MS user is bound to run out of chakra earlier than Hyuga because of his awesome and flashy techniques.

So the X-factor emerges out to be the EMS user. The hyuga have no counter to him until and unless they suffer heavy casualities. Uchiha elites like Shisui, Itachi, Sasuke and Madara were the powerhouses and these kind of powers are highly uncommon. Also their special techniques are almost flawless but then again with proper strategy can be countered to some extent (Except for Shisui or Itachi's Tsukuyomi) (Remember Hyuga will not fall for Genjutsu so easily). So what i conclude is that Hyuga outnumber the Uchiha while Uchiha are the solo powerhouses. So the battle though tilting in favour of Uchihas might actually be an even contest.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

I have been reading almost all the comments...And most of the guys here unknowingly are prejudiced no offence to anyone but thats the truth......Well lets analyse this calmly.

First the Uchihas:- They are exceptional people who have been considered OP since the beginning of shinobi history. Their fight and rivalry against the Senju is the proof of that. But the fact that even in Uchiha only a few percentage of people can awaken the sharingan is a something to be considered. Lets say we take 100 Uchiha. Now taking a 60-40 chance that Uchiha can awaken the sharingan we get 60 uchiha with sharingans. Out of these 50 lets say 40 can go 3 tomoe. Now from these 40 i guess hardly 5 might be able to awaken the Mangekyo. Note the exceptional circumstances in which Mangekyo is awakened. The only known EMS bearer are Sasuke and Madara....so we can deduce that once in 3 generations someone can even come close to awakening EMS. Also a normal MS though OP consumes a lot of chakra and has side effects..... So keep in mind that a MS user will not use his MS recklessly. He will only use it in case of emergencies or while facing a really powerful enemy.....so out of 100 people we get to this

1 ems (highly unlikely)
4 MS (still rare)
35 3 tomoe (these are more common)
20 2t or 1t

and this is the best case scenario

now the Hyugas: They have been presented as a royal/noble family of Konoha. Before that we can only guess their history apart from the fact that they are descended from Hamura.
Out of 100 Hyuga most will be able to activate the byakugan(citation needed if their are any Hyuga who can't awaken the byakugan)
So for sake of debate lets say 80 awakened it. Amongst these 80 Hyuga not everyone will have a good byakugan percetion so lets assume that 20 are absolute fodder (but better than non sharingan Uchiha, probably equal to 1t Uchiha). Now lets say 35 are decent who can actually fight the 3t Uchiha. This is considering the fact that Hyuga Taijutsu is strong and they won't be so easily fooled by genjustsus. Now we can assume 20 are exceptional Byakugan users and 5 are elites. Now these 25 people might just be able to take on the 4 MS users if they attack at once and emerge victorious. MS user is bound to run out of chakra earlier than Hyuga because of his awesome and flashy techniques.

So the X-factor emerges out to be the EMS user. The hyuga have no counter to him until and unless they suffer heavy casualities. Uchiha elites like Shisui, Itachi, Sasuke and Madara were the powerhouses and these kind of powers are highly uncommon. Also their special techniques are almost flawless but then again with proper strategy can be countered to some extent (Except for Shisui or Itachi's Tsukuyomi) (Remember Hyuga will not fall for Genjutsu so easily). So what i conclude is that Hyuga outnumber the Uchiha while Uchiha are the solo powerhouses. So the battle though tilting in favour of Uchihas might actually be an even contest.

You're pretty much on point man your number is a little off because every Hyuga get a byakugan plus remember hiashi airplam is the size of a tailed beast and his brother were said to be equal imagine 2 -airplam if the blast force doesn't kill u your chakra system is down which means no Sharingan Plus there is no sneak attack that can work can see right in your camp see how man u have what attack plan or see individual chakra nature or use their x ray vision to pick dangerous enemies from afar plus god forbid if kish let them learn different jutus like hidden mist

 

[LeSauce]

Keyword is was a failure and was at the bottom of his class he was practically the conqueror of the shinobi world by the time he died.

I didn't say it was completely equal to sharingan but equal in terms of tracking speed. 3 tomoe sharingan enhances the users perception meaning they are able to mimic movements, see fast moving objects, predict body movements and even copy jutsu, and greater have greater genjutsu abilities. This compared to a Hyuga who has 360-degree vision which would effectively allow them to see and perceive incoming attacks, a combat style that only the basics could be mimicked by the sharingan but not as effective, and the ability to hit their opponent even if they miss damaging vital organs in the process and shutting the opponents chakra nature with each and every strike. Also due to the byakugans greater perception of chakra the user can see when their own chakra system is unbalanced and correct it. We also can't forget that the byakugan allows it's users to see up to a mile I believe unhindered rendering any chance of surprise attacks useless.

Based on this meaning average Hyuga with byakugan as the average Hyuga has it at birth vs the average Uchiha which wouldn't have sharingan but for the sake of argument well say has 3 tomoe. Each individual battle would come down to the combatants personal combat experience and battle strategy, up until the point that the Hyuga comes across an MS or EMS user which if there was a war going on will bound to be one at most two.

In conclusion, the Hyuga aren't a bunch of pushovers and on average they are equal but when you take out the average and the one or two exceptional Uchiha steps onto the battlefield with MS or EMS the Uchiha as a whole become superior.

Lol, Madara was the first to have MS, and no one had MS until Shisui afterwards, and he could only use it once every decade.

The fact that you think MS or EMS would play a part in the strength of their clan makes no sense because the clan got to its strength without anyone having either of them.

3T was the pinnacle of the Uchiha clan for the majority of the time, and they were still on top with the Senju. 3T is greater than the average Hyuga- and therefore Byakugan user- by a wide margin simply because hardly anyone in the Uchiha had the Sharingan to begin with, which means that those few were either able to carry the rest of the clan by beating most Hyuga members, or the Uchiha Clan was already close in power to the Hyuga and the 3T simply boosted their presence.

Either way you look at it, 3T has to be>than the average Hyuga and maybe even their best in order for the Uchiha to be greater.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

Lol, Madara was the first to have MS, and no one had MS until Shisui afterwards, and he could only use it once every decade.

The fact that you think MS or EMS would play a part in the strength of their clan makes no sense because the clan got to its strength without anyone having either of them.

3T was the pinnacle of the Uchiha clan for the majority of the time, and they were still on top with the Senju. 3T is greater than the average Hyuga- and therefore Byakugan user- by a wide margin simply because hardly anyone in the Uchiha had the Sharingan to begin with, which means that those few were either able to carry the rest of the clan by beating most Hyuga members, or the Uchiha Clan was already close in power to the Hyuga and the 3T simply boosted their presence.

Either way you look at it, 3T has to be>than the average Hyuga and maybe even their best in order for the Uchiha to be greater.

Ms is there pinnacle and they match the senji in few battle( remember they were mercenaries they fought only when they were paid to) but when the senji declare all out war on the uchiha they lost like hashi said it was clear that uchiha were inferior/ losing in our battles

Genjutsu is a weak against the Hyuga

The Hyuga have the best cc point blank period. every shinobi struggles to send chakra to their hands and feet the Hyuga have control over all there point and to Genjutsu someone you have to send chakra to take over there senses and the Hyuga can see chakra eyes then close there eyes and keep fighting without missing a beat Plus they have the greatest chakra control


Taijutus is a death sentence

Ninjutus is there only hope and nothing stops the Hyuga form learning other jutus other than plot

 

[NarutoX28]

Maybe bcus Hyuuga was a clan of peace. Like China, its a peace loving country, it never invade any countries though out history. But we knew they capable of battle/war.

And? The Hyuuga were certainly ready to defend Konoha against Pain's invasion and also defend not only Konoha, but the entire world against Obito and the Juubi. If the Uchiha Clan opposes the Konoha system and shifts the power dynamic of the village in their favor, then the Hyuuga Clan is certainly going to be willing to defend Konoha against the Uchiha.

 

[LeSauce]

Ms is there pinnacle and they match the senji in few battle( remember they were mercenaries they fought only when they were paid to) but when the senji declare all out war on the uchiha they lost like hashi said it was clear that uchiha were inferior/ losing in our battles

Genjutsu is a weak against the Hyuga

The Hyuga have the best cc point blank period. every shinobi struggles to send chakra to their hands and feet the Hyuga have control over all there point and to Genjutsu someone you have to send chakra to take over there senses and the Hyuga can see chakra eyes then close there eyes and keep fighting without missing a beat Plus they have the greatest chakra control


Taijutus is a death sentence

Ninjutus is there only hope and nothing stops the Hyuga form learning other jutus other than plot

Dude... What?

 

[unknownvillain1254]

Dude... What?

What you can't read English I can say it in Spanish if you need to

 

[LeSauce]

What you can't read English I can say it in Spanish if you need to

If you want.

 

[Prince Badman]

You're pretty much on point man your number is a little off because every Hyuga get a byakugan plus remember hiashi airplam is the size of a tailed beast and his brother were said to be equal imagine 2 -airplam if the blast force doesn't kill u your chakra system is down which means no Sharingan Plus there is no sneak attack that can work can see right in your camp see how man u have what attack plan or see individual chakra nature or use their x ray vision to pick dangerous enemies from afar plus god forbid if kish let them learn different jutus like hidden mist

just adding a little thing here....Hiaishi's strongest airpalm was able to deflect juubi's tail, but i don't know if he can keep firing them one after the other.....Secondly air palm doesn't block your chakra points... i guess those strinkes have to be specifically targeted on tenketsus

 

[Pyro NB]

Yeah but Obito was pratically spoonfed hashis cells and everything that made him powerful at a very young age. I am only referring to his sharigan usage in kakashi gaiden.

His greatest ability and Kakashi's greatest ability is Kamui an MS technique. Hashi cells did keep him alive and gave him the ability to use wood how often did he use anything but Kamui, nin/taijutsu.

How can it be equal to sharigan tracking speed? If Neji is the epitome of Hyuuga why did he tagged by White zetsu fodder in the war. Sasuke can keep up with kage level shinobi. Itachi was untouchable. At 1 tomoe Sarada is fighting off MS experiments. Obito was on par with jounin kid genius kakahi.

White zetsu were enhanced by hashi cells and I wouldn't consider Neji the epitome of Hyuga blood as I believe the moon Otsutsuki would've nerfed him. Sasuke can track Kage level movements but only because of his training is he is also able to react to them. Itachi was an Uchiha genius and Sarada was tracking the experiments while combating them with enhanced strength which she more than likely learned from her mom. Obito is a given since Kakashi is a normal shinobi of course, sharingan makes him his equal but then again would being equal to a normal shinobi missing an eye be a good point to try and prove?

This means nothing. Other clans also have abilities or skills that let them battle shinobi. For example, Kibas nose, Shino's bugs, and The Byakugans only advantage is to see 360 degrees almost everywhere at once. But they also have a blind spot that makes them get easily taken advantage of if known. Like Kiba using his nose to fight, Do you remember when Neji got knocked out in 1 punch by Naruto? Or when Neji still got taken from behind by white Zetsu fodder.

Really... their abilities allow them to sense and track not perceive body movements and by this like I said when I explained sharingan allows the user to see high-speed movements giving them time to react. The blind spot is known only to the Hyuga and one dead shinobi who had to fight for how long at long range with a bow before he could deduce that Neji had a blind spot and still got killed so that won't be helping you. Neji was battling Naruto with Kurama chakra and then was hit by the punch while his byakugan was inactive so basically he was normal mode at that point. Zetsu army started by Kaguya, continued by Madara completed by Obito, and enhance with Hashi cell by Kabuto. The white Zetsu also have the ability to change their chakra signature which means that the Zetsu behind Neji could've very well had a friendly signature.

Just because they can see something doesn't mean they can react precisely enough to counter their opponents. Also not every byakugan can see the same distance.

Same goes for sharingan which is why each respective shinobi would have to train their body to match their eyes. Distance is trained and increases as the user improves their skill just like an Uchiha would have to train to improve their skill with utilizing sharingan.

I would like to see a Byakugan user with little combat experience fighting MS shins clones.

She dodged a weapon thanks to sharingan and then smashed the majority of then using the enhanced strength just like her mom .... So basically give a Hyuga who had byakugan at birth and trained with it since birth basically monster strength and you would have the same if not greater results.

In my opinion if Uchiha are the strongest clan it's only natural the average members would be above average.

Keyword being if they are the strongest since considering you know the Senju were negging a good number of them and visa verse. Also, the Hyuga are above average and with the average Uchiha not having access to the sharingan means that average Senju were on par with no sharingan Uchiha as they were always tied and that even with the few sharingan they did have they were still dying. Also, why do you keep bringing up the feats of individuals because if you want to continue with that we can just use Otsutsuki for Hyuga side....

Specific individuals aren't an average.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

just adding a little thing here....Hiaishi's strongest airpalm was able to deflect juubi's tail, but i don't know if he can keep firing them one after the other.....Secondly air palm doesn't block your chakra points... i guess those strinkes have to be specifically targeted on tenketsus

I'm not going to say the man can shoot them back to back but he can do a lease 3/5 and it's the chakra that block the c point it's not specifically made for that but is more of a shotgun spread it may or may not hit the c point

 

[ComplexCity]

A generalization thread, interesting

 

[Dantee]

I have been reading almost all the comments...And most of the guys here unknowingly are prejudiced no offence to anyone but thats the truth......Well lets analyse this calmly.

First the Uchihas:- They are exceptional people who have been considered OP since the beginning of shinobi history. Their fight and rivalry against the Senju is the proof of that. But the fact that even in Uchiha only a few percentage of people can awaken the sharingan is a something to be considered. Lets say we take 100 Uchiha. Now taking a 60-40 chance that Uchiha can awaken the sharingan we get 60 uchiha with sharingans. Out of these 50 lets say 40 can go 3 tomoe. Now from these 40 i guess hardly 5 might be able to awaken the Mangekyo. Note the exceptional circumstances in which Mangekyo is awakened. The only known EMS bearer are Sasuke and Madara....so we can deduce that once in 3 generations someone can even come close to awakening EMS. Also a normal MS though OP consumes a lot of chakra and has side effects..... So keep in mind that a MS user will not use his MS recklessly. He will only use it in case of emergencies or while facing a really powerful enemy.....so out of 100 people we get to this

1 ems (highly unlikely)
4 MS (still rare)
35 3 tomoe (these are more common)
20 2t or 1t

and this is the best case scenario

now the Hyugas: They have been presented as a royal/noble family of Konoha. Before that we can only guess their history apart from the fact that they are descended from Hamura.
Out of 100 Hyuga most will be able to activate the byakugan(citation needed if their are any Hyuga who can't awaken the byakugan)
So for sake of debate lets say 80 awakened it. Amongst these 80 Hyuga not everyone will have a good byakugan percetion so lets assume that 20 are absolute fodder (but better than non sharingan Uchiha, probably equal to 1t Uchiha). Now lets say 35 are decent who can actually fight the 3t Uchiha. This is considering the fact that Hyuga Taijutsu is strong and they won't be so easily fooled by genjustsus. Now we can assume 20 are exceptional Byakugan users and 5 are elites. Now these 25 people might just be able to take on the 4 MS users if they attack at once and emerge victorious. MS user is bound to run out of chakra earlier than Hyuga because of his awesome and flashy techniques.

So the X-factor emerges out to be the EMS user. The hyuga have no counter to him until and unless they suffer heavy casualities. Uchiha elites like Shisui, Itachi, Sasuke and Madara were the powerhouses and these kind of powers are highly uncommon. Also their special techniques are almost flawless but then again with proper strategy can be countered to some extent (Except for Shisui or Itachi's Tsukuyomi) (Remember Hyuga will not fall for Genjutsu so easily). So what i conclude is that Hyuga outnumber the Uchiha while Uchiha are the solo powerhouses. So the battle though tilting in favour of Uchihas might actually be an even contest.

You have the calculations of the Hyuuga clan all wrong. The Hyuuga is broken up into only 2 branches to measure their potential strength. The main family and branch members. The main family were composed of heirs and was a relatively small family.

At best only the strongest of the HYuuga can stand up to a MS Uchiha. For the sake of the argument lets say their is max 3-4 Hyuuga who can stand up to one or 2 MS Uchiha. All 4 who know Rotation/64 palm and considered the best in their clan.



Now lets establish Manga Factual wise Chunin Neji is the about the average Hyuuga clan elite.

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Now the Branch member family of the Hyuuga which is the majority of the clan is pretty much written off as above average fodder. Uchihas without sharigan wont go down without a fight because the majority learned to utilized ninjutsu, shuriken/kenjutsu and were part of Konohas police force.

At best they were only = to these type of Uchiha because Uchihas without sharigan weren't expanded and we've never seen Hyuugas outside the exceptional elite in action.


And Going by facts, we can now easily assume that 2t and 3t= HYuuga elite simply because chunin Sasuke 2t and 3t easily >= chunin Neji Hyuuga. And 1t Sarada average ninja > genin Hinata. Remember Neji also was a special case equivalent to Itachi.



The average are equal to the average Hyuuga. But the above average Uchihas are well above Hyuuga elite in the manga by overwhelming numbers.



So it goes something like this:


1 ems user is very rare, but destroys the clan so we'll him out.

1 MS user >= 4 Hyuuga main family elite

2 MS users = entire Hyuuga clan

4 MS users >>> Hyuuga clan

4 3 tomoe above average users = 4 Hyuuga elite

Out of the rest of the 96 members of the HYuuga lets say 20 are jounin.



3 tomoe = Hyuuga elite

That means 31 average 3t users should be enough to wipe out the rest of the 96 HYuuga members.

Lets say 20 were jounin 35 chunin and 41 genin.



The average members who contain only 1t or 2t tomoe sharigan Uchiha should be above your average Hyuuga, but cant take on multiple opponents. So those 20 jounin and a good percent of chunin are canceled out by 1-2t Sharigan Uchiha.

The average/fodder Uchiha member without sharigan should be about equal to a average/fodder Byakugan user using shuriken/ fireball jutsus.

 

[Dantee]

His greatest ability and Kakashi's greatest ability is Kamui an MS technique. Hashi cells did keep him alive and gave him the ability to use wood how often did he use anything but Kamui, nin/taijutsu.

I'm not talking about kamui. I was talking about his fight with the jounin and the only thing he was able to use was sharigan. Obito had no real abilities outside of his sharingan usage.

White zetsu were enhanced by hashi cells and I wouldn't consider Neji the epitome of Hyuga blood as I believe the moon Otsutsuki would've nerfed him. Sasuke can track Kage level movements but only because of his training is he is also able to react to them. Itachi was an Uchiha genius and Sarada was tracking the experiments while combating them with enhanced strength which she more than likely learned from her mom. Obito is a given since Kakashi is a normal shinobi of course, sharingan makes him his equal but then again would being equal to a normal shinobi missing an eye be a good point to try and prove?

IF not Neji who would you consider the epitome of Hyuuga ability? Toneri is an alien he is not a HYuuga.
Kakashi is not a normal shinobi. He was considered a genius at his age... Sasuke and ITachi are both considered in the same league as Neji when it comes to their respective clans. Neji not being able to keep up in the war shows the distance between Hyuuga and Uchiha.

Really... their abilities allow them to sense and track not perceive body movements and by this like I said when I explained sharingan allows the user to see high-speed movements giving them time to react. The blind spot is known only to the Hyuga and one dead shinobi who had to fight for how long at long range with a bow before he could deduce that Neji had a blind spot and still got killed so that won't be helping you. Neji was battling Naruto with Kurama chakra and then was hit by the punch while his byakugan was inactive so basically he was normal mode at that point. Zetsu army started by Kaguya, continued by Madara completed by Obito, and enhance with Hashi cell by Kabuto. The white Zetsu also have the ability to change their chakra signature which means that the Zetsu behind Neji could've very well had a friendly signature.

The zetsu was never said to have a friendly signature and Nejis body simply can't react to every movement just like the sharigan is not able to but the difference here is simply skill level ability. Uchihas were simply regarded at having more skill and being more genius than the Hyuuga were. The sharingan prowess is also a lot more significant than the Byakugan and makes you a lot more formidable than the Byakugan does.

Same goes for sharingan which is why each respective shinobi would have to train their body to match their eyes. Distance is trained and increases as the user improves their skill just like an Uchiha would have to train to improve their skill with utilizing sharingan.

Agreed.

She dodged a weapon thanks to sharingan and then smashed the majority of then using the enhanced strength just like her mom .... So basically give a Hyuga who had byakugan at birth and trained with it since birth basically monster strength and you would have the same if not greater results.

Based on absolutely nothing because Hinata was the same and was fodder.

Keyword being if they are the strongest since considering you know the Senju were negging a good number of them and visa verse. Also, the Hyuga are above average and with the average Uchiha not having access to the sharingan means that average Senju were on par with no sharingan Uchiha as they were always tied and that even with the few sharingan they did have they were still dying. Also, why do you keep bringing up the feats of individuals because if you want to continue with that we can just use Otsutsuki for Hyuga side....

They were the strongest alongside the SEnju but the Hyuuga don't belong in that discussion. You're assuming because they had byakugan that makes them auto-stronger but it simply doesn't work like that.
@bold no we can't.


If we used Toneri Otsuki for the HYuuga side then I would only have to refer to Sasuke UChiha but if we're talking about the ability of an actual clan Toneri and Rinnegan Sasuke is obviously left out of this discussion

 

[unknownvillain1254]

You have the calculations of the Hyuuga clan all wrong. The Hyuuga is broken up into only 2 branches to measure their potential strength. The main family and branch members. The main family were composed of heirs and was a relatively small family.

At best only the strongest of the HYuuga can stand up to a MS Uchiha. For the sake of the argument lets say their is max 3-4 Hyuuga who can stand up to one or 2 MS Uchiha. All 4 who know Rotation/64 palm and considered the best in their clan.



Now lets establish Manga Factual wise Chunin Neji is the about the average Hyuuga clan elite.

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Now the Branch member family of the Hyuuga which is the majority of the clan is pretty much written off as above average fodder. Uchihas without sharigan wont go down without a fight because the majority learned to utilized ninjutsu, shuriken/kenjutsu and were part of Konohas police force.

At best they were only = to these type of Uchiha because Uchihas without sharigan weren't expanded and we've never seen Hyuugas outside the exceptional elite in action.


And Going by facts, we can now easily assume that 2t and 3t= HYuuga elite simply because chunin Sasuke 2t and 3t easily >= chunin Neji Hyuuga. And 1t Sarada average ninja > genin Hinata. Remember Neji also was a special case equivalent to Itachi.



The average are equal to the average Hyuuga. But the above average Uchihas are well above Hyuuga elite in the manga by overwhelming numbers.



So it goes something like this:


1 ems user is very rare, but destroys the clan so we'll him out.

1 MS user >= 4 Hyuuga main family elite

2 MS users = entire Hyuuga clan

4 MS users >>> Hyuuga clan

4 3 tomoe above average users = 4 Hyuuga elite

Out of the rest of the 96 members of the HYuuga lets say 20 are jounin.



3 tomoe = Hyuuga elite

That means 31 average 3t users should be enough to wipe out the rest of the 96 HYuuga members.

Lets say 20 were jounin 35 chunin and 41 genin.



The average members who contain only 1t or 2t tomoe sharigan Uchiha should be above your average Hyuuga, but cant take on multiple opponents. So those 20 jounin and a good percent of chunin are canceled out by 1-2t Sharigan Uchiha.

The average/fodder Uchiha member without sharigan should be about equal to a average/fodder Byakugan user using shuriken/ fireball jutsus.

That all lie neji was not the elite of the clan but he was strong for his age plus the branch family thing was something that newly set up remember Lee said the main house start setting up new rule which means that wasn't how it always was into recent events

 

[Pyro NB]

IF not Neji who would you consider the epitome of Hyuuga ability? Toneri is an alien he is not a HYuuga.
Kakashi is not a normal shinobi. He was considered a genius at his age... Sasuke and ITachi are both considered in the same league as Neji when it comes to their respective clans. Neji not being able to keep up in the war shows the distance between Hyuuga and Uchiha.

Neji was the best Hyuga in the series imo yes but like I keep saying we can't base a clans abilities of the actions of a few clan members. While Toneri is from the moon he is a descendant of Hamura just like the Hyuga, if I had a cousin give birth to a child in England that child is still apart of my clan even though they are British and I'm American. Kakashi is a genius that almost died in the war if it wasn't for Obito, and after that, he is shown heavily relying on the borrow sharingan when fighting elite shinobi. If they are considered in the same league wouldn't mean that there are other Hyuga on par with other Uchiha considering the byakugan to sharingan ratio. Also, Sasuke and Itachi far surpass Neji when because they have MS. No one is that war would have accomplished anything if it wasn't for Naruto as all shinobi including Bee were fooled by Zetsu.

The zetsu was never said to have a friendly signature and Nejis body simply can't react to every movement just like the sharigan is not able to but the difference here is simply skill level ability. Uchihas were simply regarded at having more skill and being more genius than the Hyuuga were. The sharingan prowess is also a lot more significant than the Byakugan and makes you a lot more formidable than the Byakugan does.

The Zetsu's were said to be impersonating shinobi down to the chakra all through the war arc which is why Naruto and his clones were so crucial. Neji reacted to an arrow being shot from long range at his blind spot in the back or his head at high velocities and still manage to divert it's trajectory once it entered short-range.

Genjutsu-Uchiha
Perception(in terms of tracking high speed)-Equal up to 3 tomoe anything after that Uchiha win
Perception(in terms or chakra)-Hyuga
Perception(in terms of mimicking movements/copying techniques)-Uchiha
Taijutsu-Hyuga

Agreed.

At least, we agree on something xD

Based on absolutely nothing because Hinata was the same and was fodder.

In that battle, Sarada activated sharingan dodged the blade and then smashed the just like Sakura. Therefore that feat is attributed to both newly activated sharingan hence the dodge due to enhanced perception and the actual damage done to the Shin is due to the training she got from Sakura.

They were the strongest alongside the SEnju but the Hyuuga don't belong in that discussion. You're assuming because they had byakugan that makes them auto-stronger but it simply doesn't work like that.
@bold no we can't.

I'm not saying that they are better than Uchiha I'm saying that on average they could match the Uchiha when you take the objectivity we all have due to watching certain characters out. This brings me back to what we agreed on, on average it would come down to each shinobi's training and reaction time.

If we used Toneri Otsuki for the HYuuga side then I would only have to refer to Sasuke UChiha but if we're talking about the ability of an actual clan Toneri and Rinnegan Sasuke is obviously left out of this discussion

This is why we leave individual feats out of this discussion because when you see read the manga and watch the anime all you see is Sasuke, Itachi, Kakashi, Obito, and Madara for the Uchiha side then all you see combat wise for the Hyuga side is Neji and Hinata. When you watch/read you begin to base the abilities of each clan off these people when in truth they are select few in the midst of many.

All in all, though I believe the pecking order goes Senju, Uchiha, Hyuga. Also, it's hard for me to tell emotions on here but overall I'm having fun with this discussion, It's actually forcing me to research and analysis each clans abilities.

 

[Tyris]

Can't allow myself to continue reading past point 6 without +repping and commenting.

Idk if m'jimmy can take more rustling...

So much salt to enjoy from fodder wankers :axedance:

 

[Uchiha boii]

The uchiha clan is vastly more powerful and skilled than the hyuga in fact if a battle between the two clans were to happen and the hyugas somehow even caused any casualties boom someones awakening mangekyo at the sight of a lost comrade uchihas hate to lose their loved ones and one ms user is enough to wipe out a huge amount of hyuga look at obito when he first awakened ms he ripped elite joninin and anbu to shreds imagine 2 or 3 of these rampages? The battle would long be over not to mention sasuke itachi sasukes dad madara obito and shisui the rape that proceeds with even one of them in this scenario bar sasukes dad is insanee anyone who actually reads this manga and knows how the uchihas work would realize this is a stomp neji is the most powerful hyuga clan member maybe hiashi but neither could beat even a sick itachi ? The uchiha clan is over powered yes but thats how the story goes