How strong was Indra?

[SenseiSama]

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If you can give me another source where Madara and Obito could have learned about Indra and Ashura, we can continue from that, but there isn't any to my knowledge. Black Zetsu has the information, but since he was pretending to be Madara's will, he couldn't have told Madara or Obito anything from back then or else his disguise wouldn't be believable.

Either way, you have to understand that Hagoromo only addressed Ashura awakening chakra. This chakra is what gives him powers and what gives Indra his special eyes in the first place. Just the fact that Hagoromo says this and then says this chakra gave him power equivalent to Indra's is enough.

Most of what you said is true but Ashura inherited the Juubi's chakra and awakened it due to having the Sage's body, likewise Indra's Sharingan came from the Juubi's eye while his chakra came from the Sage

 

[Holy God]

Most of what you said is true but Ashura inherited the Juubi's chakra and awakened it due to having the Sage's body, likewise Indra's Sharingan came from the Juubi's eye while his chakra came from the Sage

I don't believe I said otherwise, unless you take my usage of "awaken" to mean something different?

 

[kiiro]

Indra < Madara < Adult Sasuke (If he had not had Rikudous PU)

 

[salamander uchiha]

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If you can give me another source where Madara and Obito could have learned about Indra and Ashura, we can continue from that, but there isn't any to my knowledge. Black Zetsu has the information, but since he was pretending to be Madara's will, he couldn't have told Madara or Obito anything from back then or else his disguise wouldn't be believable.

Either way, you have to understand that Hagoromo only addressed Ashura awakening chakra. This chakra is what gives him powers and what gives Indra his special eyes in the first place. Just the fact that Hagoromo says this and then says this chakra gave him power equivalent to Indra's is enough.

Just show the scan where Hogaromo says it or Madara and I'll accept that's the source for it. The reason Hogaromo only mentioned the chakra was because that was what was the only thing he rivalled in the body produced it But Hogaromo compared it to Indra's chakra meaning powerful chakra gene. Whereas he mentioned indra had 2 other qualities. As for black zetsu he clearly says I kept on approaching incarnates to take the power he approached Madara who eventually accepted it. He wouldn't have eapproached him without giving knowledge. Now how he did it that's more interesting perhaps he has a jutsu that allow whispering to the desires and influences a person's thoughts. Anyway when Madara mentions it to Hashirama he mentions an idea nothing more. The tablet didn't contain knowledge about white zetsu either, or are you saying the sage wrote the entire history and omited it. As for Obito he could've gained more knowledge from black zetsu considering it Madara's will. The Sage's tablet predates the 2s conflict it contains earlier history.
So there's no way Ashura was any match for Indra and as the sage said he gave him the power it was to compensate for the weakness. The sage mentions Indra's eyes separately their connection wasn't to their powerful chakra so that refutes your point neither is spiritual energy. They're connected to powerful eyes.
Now if you have a scan showing otherwise I'm willing to have a look

 

[salamander uchiha]

lmao!!!!

whatever you are high on,i want some....
they are the same size fool....
considering Ashura has the 'Bodily' abilities here,coupled with RSM,his chakra level is way beyound that of Indra.

You need something that's just the susanoo head. Ashura's avatar us a practice of whole susanoo.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Rokudou tobi uses Genjutsu means your a yin user especially high grade 1 like Hashirama's a rank Genjutsu but their are other uses for yin release as well. Here's a manga scan showing a yin user again what it means at a base level.

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[salamander uchiha]

it Never said anything about all Ashura Incarnate needing to be exactly like Ashura...Take it or not,Hahirama was no Anomaly.

Off course he was because he's the reason an Uchiha finally decided to gain the rinnegan. No other Ashura incarnate had the same affect on another indra incarnate well because their power was equal or weaker. You see Hashirama's wood release is a shiny power it's not even a basic power it's you could say at that level.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Rokudou tobi uses Genjutsu means your a yin user especially high grade 1 like Hashirama's a rank Genjutsu but their are other uses for yin release as well. Here's a manga scan showing a yin user again what it means at a base level.

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No it does not. Some genjutsu use yin fragments while other jutsu uses complete shadow style. Hashirama is not a yin style user, not in the slightest and your translation is wrong too.

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[SenseiSama]

No it does not. Some genjutsu use yin fragments while other jutsu uses complete shadow style. Hashirama is not a yin style user, not in the slightest and your translation is wrong too.

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All genjutsu are Yin including the Kage's clam technique, they affect the brain's perceptive ability and therefore rely on mental energy

 

[Yahcob13]

I think Ashura was still outmatched by Indra even after receiving the power of the six paths. Ashura managed to defeat Indra in their first fight but he didnt solo. Hagoromo had to give him ninshu chakra just to summon the 1000 hand pimpslapper when Hashi could summon it by himself. My theory is that Indra would try to solo everyone which made it less difficult for Ashura who liked to fight with a crew. I'd say Indra = Rinnegan Madara. You have to consider the fact that he was 25% Otsutsuki which may explain why he didnt go blind. There's nothing saying that he didnt learn senjutsu from his dad either.

 

[Yahcob13]

Every ninja that uses chakra is and yin and yang user right?

 

[Tyris]

Infra and sasuke rekt ashura/Naruto their whole lives until they received power from hagaromo and equally died or in naruto/sasuke case both would have died if not for sakura.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Every ninja that uses chakra is and yin and yang user right?

Nope they do combine spiritual energy and stamina forming chakra but that doesn't mean they can use yin or yang release.

 

[whiteboy2345]

You must have forgot the point of this conversation, because in my first post towards you I specifically said Hagoromo did not say the power he gave Naruto and Sasuke was the same as that he gave Ashura. You then proceeded to give your own definition of "it" that made no sense. If you cannot justify that the powers were the same, you have no evidence.

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He compares the powers to one another, showing that he did in fact give his actual power to Asura.

 

[SenseiSama]

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He compares the powers to one another, showing that he did in fact give his actual power to Asura.

Political power, Kaguya's 'throne', forbidden knowledge on the Juubi, power can be anything and in Ashura's case it wasn't chakra that the Sage entrusted with him.


If Ashura was given Hago's chakra he would've been superior to Indra and won the fight, it's basic math.

 

[Holy God]

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He compares the powers to one another, showing that he did in fact give his actual power to Asura.

No he doesn't? Hagoromo says giving power to one side caused Indra and Ashura while giving power to both did the same. Nowhere are they compared except if you consider the usage of "it" meaning they're the same, in which case I already stated that the "it" doesn't exist in the raw, it's just a way to make the translation flow better. He actually says "power" instead of "it".

 

[whiteboy2345]

Political power, Kaguya's 'throne', forbidden knowledge on the Juubi, power can be anything and in Ashura's case it wasn't chakra that the Sage entrusted with him.


If Ashura was given Hago's chakra he would've been superior to Indra and won the fight, it's basic math.

He didn't give Naruto or Sasuke political power, so you're still wrong.

Also, Hagoromo didn't have political power. He didn't believe in that shit, he just believed in equality and cooperation.

 

[whiteboy2345]

No he doesn't? Hagoromo says giving power to one side caused Indra and Ashura while giving power to both did the same. Nowhere are they compared except if you consider the usage of "it" meaning they're the same, in which case I already stated that the "it" doesn't exist in the raw, it's just a way to make the translation flow better. He actually says "power" instead of "it".

Dude, you're playing ****ing word games at this point. He gave his literal power to Naruto and Sasuke, and compares what he gave to them, to what he gave to Asura.

Is it so beyond you to accept that you're wrong? It doesn't mean you're stupid.

 

[Holy God]

Dude, you're playing ****ing word games at this point. He gave his literal power to Naruto and Sasuke, and compares what he gave to them, to what he gave to Asura.

Is it so beyond you to accept that you're wrong? It doesn't mean you're stupid.

You're the one playing word games. Please point out where he compares them, because I don't see it? If I say giving food to one person ended in a result similar to me giving food to another, that in no way implies both food are the same.

Besides, what you're arguing for goes against Hagoromo's philosophy. He doesn't care about actual power and had literally no reason to give it to Ashura. After saying he gave power to Ashura, he even defined what true power was to him.

 

[SenseiSama]

He didn't give Naruto or Sasuke political power, so you're still wrong.

Also, Hagoromo didn't have political power. He didn't believe in that shit, he just believed in equality and cooperation.

Hagoromo was the founder and leader of Ninshu, that's like being Moses, Jesus and the Pope all combined, no royal title can compare to that. And speaking of royal titles, his mother was the Queen of mankind LITERALLY.

The political power Hagoromo possessed was in literal terms the equivalent of being god king. That power is what Indra believed he was entitled to because of his talent. The Sage did not need to leave any chakra for Ashura because his children were already born with a portion of his power unlike Uchiha and Senju with 1000 year old diluted blood.