[Discussion] How strong the shogun of wano??

[Rikudou Tobi]

I forgot to mention that besides Shanks (which we know nothing about right now), only Big mom and Whitbeard have commanders in their crew, Blackbeard and Kaido have captains.

 

[Marshall D Teach]

The strength levels aren't exact but they are still within a level that they cannot exceed. Granted that Mihawk is above the rest, the same logic applies to Garp who exceeds the Admirals in strength.
The Warlord of the Seas couldn't be on a Yonko FM's level because Dogtooth pushed Luffy to his absolute limit during their fight. On top of that Luffy beating Dogtooth gave Luffy 5th Yonko status and according to Robin, Blackbeard only became the 4th Yonko after he defeated

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.
These are things that Warlords are unable to do once you defeated them or surpass in battle. Luffy's been gaining 100 million belli each time he defeats a Warlord and Teech said that if he wanted to be one himself he would need to do something of equal status. That was either defeat Luffy or beat Ace (who is also Warlord level that tied with Jinbei).

So they might not be exact but they're not too far off each other for the most part, obviously Buggy and Mihawk are the exception of the group because Buggy had reputation conditions to get that status and Mihawk is does whatever he wants like Garp does in the marines.
For the most part (excluding Mihawk and Buggy) all the other Warlord of the Seas are in the same tier group and there strength is closer than you think. Ace who was offered a seat as a Warlord before meeting Jinbei was able to stalemate Jinbei to a deadlock upon their first confrontation. This very same Warlord level is what permitted Ace to take a seat with the higher up commanders on WB ship, even Shanks said that Ace was strong enough to take the number #2 spot.

Commander on the other hand is not an existing level because excluding the FM they've shown as much prominence as a Warlord of the Seas did during the paramount war. And the Commanders strength level hardly depends on their strength except for like the top 3, 4, or 5.
Even Kaido's captain's only have 3 top members, Big mom only has 3 sweet commanders while the rest are ministers that could defeat some of Whitebeard's commanders from 7 all the way to 16, and some of Whitebeard's commander can't even beat a vice admiral.
So there's really no such thing a "commander level" since the World govt. doesn't recognize them as a hierarchy of power except for the First Mates that given 2 yonkos their status.
You can't say "commander level" when a "non commander level" such as minister Daifuku or Oven can beat the tar out of commander Curiel or commander Izo.

I do believe both minister Daifuke and oven are > the other yonkos 3rd commanders

 

[kiiro]

Well he will Zoro's opponent and reason Zoro will have a billion bounty I think. We saw what he did wit a knife, I think he might be near or on the level of Mihawk now.

Shogun would be like first mate level I think. Any less would make Zoro look bad.

 

[kiiro]

I forgot to mention that besides Shanks (which we know nothing about right now), only Big mom and Whitbeard have commanders in their crew, Blackbeard and Kaido have captains.

It is the same.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

I do believe both minister Daifuke and oven are > the other yonkos 3rd commanders

Exactly. There are commander weaker than vice admirals, on the same level as some vice admirals (captain atoms), some way stronger than the vice admirals that they should be on a level of their own (warlord level) and the ones that sits above the rest of the commanders able to give an Admiral a great deal of trouble (some dare say on the same level as an admiral) while only taking direct orders from the Yonkos themselves only (The first mates).

So this is the best system that we have and they are part of the world power, the same place we got the term Yonko level.

Just think about it really. Do you really believe that there’s a huge difference in power between Jinbei and Doflamingo?

 

[kiiro]

He's not Yonko FM level but he could be Warlord level if he's one of Kaido's commanders.

Then he is Mihawk Level.

The strength levels aren't exact but they are still within a level that they cannot exceed. Granted that Mihawk is above the rest, the same logic applies to Garp who exceeds the Admirals in strength.

Mihawk is not Yonkou level. Never has been stated. He fought Shanks, but even that Shanks lost an arm to a sea king. That Shanks was strong but not Yonkou tier yet for sure. And if you keep bringing this, then Moriah also would be Yonkou level since he fought equally to Kaido but still lost.

The Warlord of the Seas couldn't be on a Yonko FM's level because Dogtooth pushed Luffy to his absolute limit during their fight. On top of that Luffy beating Dogtooth gave Luffy 5th Yonko status and according to Robin, Blackbeard only became the 4th Yonko after he defeated

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.

Same as Doflamingo pushed him and same as many other will. And this Robin thing is false, you dont necesaarily need to beat Marco to be a Yonkou, Teach has done many thing that gave him the title. As conquering his territories and having a fleet besides the power.

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These are things that Warlords are unable to do once you defeated them or surpass in battle. Luffy's been gaining 100 million belli each time he defeats a Warlord and Teech said that if he wanted to be one himself he would need to do something of equal status. That was either defeat Luffy or beat Ace (who is also Warlord level that tied with Jinbei).

False once again. Dont twist things. So you are sayinf that defeating Pica is worth a 200 million increase and Doflamingo only 100 million? And you need to be above at least Moriah level since he was dispatched for being weak.

So they might not be exact but they're not too far off each other for the most part, obviously Buggy and Mihawk are the exception of the group because Buggy had reputation conditions to get that status and Mihawk is does whatever he wants like Garp does in the marines.
For the most part (excluding Mihawk and Buggy) all the other Warlord of the Seas are in the same tier group and there strength is closer than you think. Ace who was offered a seat as a Warlord before meeting Jinbei was able to stalemate Jinbei to a deadlock upon their first confrontation. This very same Warlord level is what permitted Ace to take a seat with the higher up commanders on WB ship, even Shanks said that Ace was strong enough to take the number #2 spot.

Obviously not, Crocodile =/= Doflamingo. Any Warlord is so different in power level. Be it Buggy or Mihawk. ANd Ace had a lot of potential to be stronger.

Commander on the other hand is not an existing level because excluding the FM they've shown as much prominence as a Warlord of the Seas did during the paramount war. And the Commanders strength level hardly depends on their strength except for like the top 3, 4, or 5.
Even Kaido's captain's only have 3 top members, Big mom only has 3 sweet commanders while the rest are ministers that could defeat some of Whitebeard's commanders from 7 all the way to 16, and some of Whitebeard's commander can't even beat a vice admiral.
So there's really no such thing a "commander level" since the World govt. doesn't recognize them as a hierarchy of power except for the First Mates that given 2 yonkos their status.
You can't say "commander level" when a "non commander level" such as minister Daifuku or Oven can beat the tar out of commander Curiel or commander Izo.

I agree there is not commander level as specific but we do know that at least from Yonkou they have higher bounty of 550 million. So above of 550 we could say they are commander level of a Yonkou. And above than 1 billion is first mate.

 

[Marshall D Teach]

Oven was definitely one of the coolest characters in one piece. That hole in his chest and still going was just such badassery

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Then he is Mihawk Level.

Mihawk right now is theorized to be stronger than the admirals right now so no, he’s really not.

Mihawk is not Yonkou level. Never has been stated. He fought Shanks, but even that Shanks lost an arm to a sea king. That Shanks was strong but not Yonkou tier yet for sure. And if you keep bringing this, then Moriah also would be Yonkou level since he fought equally to Kaido but still lost.

Shanks making a bet (which he told Whitebeard) through a sea king has nothing to do with his strength level, especially when he made a conscious effort to subdue the Seak King with Supreme Haki which took Luffy two years of Haki training to replicate that exact same feat.
Shanks was obviously a yonko back then and obviously you should know this. It was even revealed in the Ace novel that he was and Linlin wanted to take down Shanks as well 10 years ago when Lola was suppose to marry Prince Loki.
Mihawk was never stated to lose to Shanks, Moria did. Crocodile and Moria are the only known ones to fight their rival yonko and lose, Doflamingo and Jinbei worked directly with them.
Mihawk is the only one to challenge a Yonko and never stated to of lost anything to them as of yet.

Same as Doflamingo pushed him and same as many other will. And this Robin thing is false, you dont necesaarily need to beat Marco to be a Yonkou, Teach has done many thing that gave him the title. As conquering his territories and having a fleet besides the power.

This is completely wrong. Doflamingo didn’t push Luffy exetreme diff at all. Luffy didn’t even use TankMan or Snakeman against Dofy and Dofy had to use trickery just to fatigue Luffy. Luffy fought nearly everyone just to reach Dofy.
What Robin said is completely true and nothing you can say can counter what Oda wrote in the manga. The rest is just your opinion.

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This has nothing to do with him gaining the title. Luffy became a yonko without gaining a territory and fodder such as Brownbeard took over WB’s old territory too. It did nothing.
Blackbeard having a fleet before his fight with marco is a speculation too.
Robin said that after his fight with Marco he gained yonko status.

False once again. Dont twist things. So you are sayinf that defeating Pica is worth a 200 million increase and Doflamingo only 100 million? And you need to be above at least Moriah level since he was dispatched for being weak.

No you’re wrong. Go look at Luffy’s bounty count. After dressrosa arc after defeating Doflamingo, Luffy’s bounty only went up by 100 million belli and so did Law’s.
Sanji’s bounty went up even higher than Zoro and he didn’t do anything.
Stop making such brash foolish statements, Zoro’s bounty went up that high due to association based on his threat level.

Obviously not, Crocodile =/= Doflamingo. Any Warlord is so different in power level. Be it Buggy or Mihawk. ANd Ace had a lot of potential to be stronger.

Wrong. Crocodile’s level is up to your opinion but he took out Jozu in the war. I say that Dofy is stronger but only by a little. Ace’s latent potential has nothing to do with his current level.
At the end of the day he rejected a warlord invitation and he stalemated a warlord for 5 days.
So Ace is on the same level as a warlord whether you like it or not, there’s no disputing that unless he would’ve beat Ace in that fight.

I agree there is not commander level as specific but we do know that at least from Yonkou they have higher bounty of 550 million. So above of 550 we could say they are commander level of a Yonkou. And above than 1 billion is first mate.

There is no commander level unless you’re trying to tell me that Vista and Izo are on the same level?
Even minister Oven who is not a commander would destroy commander izo in a fight, so does that mean Minister Oven would beat Vista or Jozu in a fight too?

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Oven was definitely one of the coolest characters in one piece. That hole in his chest and still going was just such badassery

I liked his tenacity but Sanji blitz soccer kicking him 5 meters and Ichiji blitzing him kinda mad a stamp for me that he isn’t a keen fighter. He doesn’t have Haki and he couldn’t keep up with Sanji’s speed. That left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Marshall D Teach]

I liked his tenacity but Sanji blitz soccer kicking him 5 meters and Ichiji blitzing him kinda mad a stamp for me that he isn’t a keen fighter. He doesn’t have Haki and he couldn’t keep up with Sanji’s speed. That left a bad taste in my mouth.

I think it's not that he doesn't have haki, but that he was blitzed too fast, but his durability made up for it and his extreme offensive power. He's slow tho

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

I think it's not that he doesn't have haki, but that he was blitzed too fast, but his durability made up for it and his extreme offensive power. He's slow tho

I’m talking about after the fact and not during. He couldn’t find where Sanji was hiding after he got blitzed.
Anyways he is durable as you said and you can be powerful without Haki like in Oven’s case.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

What the hell are you talking about? That's not weak at all, and Cracker including Smoothie are on that level. There's no way that the Shogun is on Yonko FM level, we don't know how far back him and Kaido’s relationship is with each other.

My bad. The amount of scrub warlords made me me assume you were referring to him being in the middle somewhere.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

My bad. The amount of scrub warlords made me me assume you were referring to him being in the middle somewhere.

Of course how cynical of you. This comes to no suprise since you’re one of those people that likes to alienate the common sense of a warlord level especially after the comment that was made by the marines in regard to the yonko’s conversation.
If you’re gonna do one of those typical troll things that you do then please take it to the Naruto section. I know that nobody in their right mind would regard the legit original seven warlords of the seas as scrubs.

 

[Marshall D Teach]

I’m talking about after the fact and not during. He couldn’t find where Sanji was hiding after he got blitzed.
Anyways he is durable as you said and you can be powerful without Haki like in Oven’s case.

Nah oven has haki, it would be silly to think he doesnt

 

[Love Cook]

Who would win in a fight King Riku, King Neptune, King Neptune or Shogun Kurozumi ?

Edit: -1 king Neptune +1 King Cobra

 

[TheNuetrix]

Who would win in a fight King Riku, King Neptune, King Neptune or Shogun Kurozumi ?

King Neptune knows shadow-clone jutsu now. If so he stomps low-diff.

But in all seriousness I would bet on Shogun because he is from a country of powerful samurais that even the Admirals don't take lightly, not to mention Kaido doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would work alongside utter weakling so Shogun himself is likely a powerhouse.
"Riku is gonna find One Piece...whoops, pretend you never heard that" - Eiichiro Oda, 2002

 

[Love Cook]

King Neptune knows shadow-clone jutsu now. If so he stomps low-diff.

But in all seriousness I would bet on Shogun because he is from a country of powerful samurais that even the Admirals don't take lightly, not to mention Kaido doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would work alongside utter weakling so Shogun himself is likely a powerhouse.
"Riku is gonna find One Piece...whoops, pretend you never heard that" - Eiichiro Oda, 2002

I'm just asking because I don't understand where the Shogun hype comes from. We've seen so many rulers of countries already and non of those were strong enough to roll with the big shots. But for some reason the shogun gets hyped without any feats.

 

[kiiro]

Mihawk right now is theorized to be stronger than the admirals right now so no, he’s really not.

Listen what you are saying. Theory =/= Facts. Until know, he is not Yonkou Level, looking at his feats at Marineford at beat is admiral level. I saw a theory that he is not Yonkou Level :V

Shanks making a bet (which he told Whitebeard) through a sea king has nothing to do with his strength level, especially when he made a conscious effort to subdue the Seak King with Supreme Haki which took Luffy two years of Haki training to replicate that exact same feat.
Shanks was obviously a yonko back then and obviously you should know this. It was even revealed in the Ace novel that he was and Linlin wanted to take down Shanks as well 10 years ago when Lola was suppose to marry Prince Loki.
Mihawk was never stated to lose to Shanks, Moria did. Crocodile and Moria are the only known ones to fight their rival yonko and lose, Doflamingo and Jinbei worked directly with them.
Mihawk is the only one to challenge a Yonko and never stated to of lost anything to them as of yet.

Why dont bring scans or quotes to back your statement? Why make this hard? If you have clear evidence for what you are saying then just bring it. But as far in the Manga, nothing proves he was a Yonkou when he fought Mihawk. Pre time skip was 10 years after chapter one and Shanks stood there for a year that would make 11 years since Mihawk has not fought him.

Now, if you bring some scan or quote to prove that he was a Yonkou during the time Ace became a pirate, that would be 3 years before Luffy so that would be 8 years since he fought Mihawk. Still does not prove that 11 years ago was already a Yonkou, it will just prove he became was Yonkou 3 year before Luffy became Pirate.

About Lola, she was 3 years in Thriller Bark which is the same example as above, even if was 5 years it would be the same.

This is completely wrong. Doflamingo didn’t push Luffy exetreme diff at all. Luffy didn’t even use TankMan or Snakeman against Dofy and Dofy had to use trickery just to fatigue Luffy. Luffy fought nearly everyone just to reach Dofy.
What Robin said is completely true and nothing you can say can counter what Oda wrote in the manga. The rest is just your opinion.

I am not denying what Robin said, I am proving to you that Teach had another accomplishments before fighting Marco which also involved about him having an Emperor Title and this is also true. Don't deny he also did another things, you wont be an Emperor just because you beat a first mate, this is silly.

Snake Man and Tank Man is Gear 4, until he brings a Gear 5 then complain, until then it is the same Gear 4. Nothing suggests Snake Man and Tank Man >> Bound Man. By feats, Bound Man is superior.

Please name all these people that Luffy had to fight to reach Doflamingo please. And If Doflamingo used trick or not, not important, it was his plans which is what counts.

This has nothing to do with him gaining the title. Luffy became a yonko without gaining a territory and fodder such as Brownbeard took over WB’s old territory too. It did nothing.
Blackbeard having a fleet before his fight with marco is a speculation too.
Robin said that after his fight with Marco he gained yonko status.

After yes, but he had other things. I brought you the manga, Jimbei said he had Whitebeard Territories, fodder might conquer some territories since Teach was not in the new world, once there he conque all except one as Marco said in the last chapter. And Teach having a fleet is not speculation, we saw in chapter 904 or 903 there were pirates of Teach in islands.

No you’re wrong. Go look at Luffy’s bounty count. After dressrosa arc after defeating Doflamingo, Luffy’s bounty only went up by 100 million belli and so did Law’s.
Sanji’s bounty went up even higher than Zoro and he didn’t do anything.
Stop making such brash foolish statements, Zoro’s bounty went up that high due to association based on his threat level.

Law bounty went up from 440 to 500 million, only an increse of 60 million. His last increasements dont matter, here in dresrossa Zoro had and 200 million increase while Luffy had 100 million. How do you explain that?

Wrong. Crocodile’s level is up to your opinion but he took out Jozu in the war. I say that Dofy is stronger but only by a little. Ace’s latent potential has nothing to do with his current level.
At the end of the day he rejected a warlord invitation and he stalemated a warlord for 5 days.
So Ace is on the same level as a warlord whether you like it or not, there’s no disputing that unless he would’ve beat Ace in that fight.

Chill, I never said that Ace was not Warlord level. I said Ace has a lot potential and power, so he having the place of second commander was ok just as Shanks said so. So now Crocodile took out Jozu? Hahahaha I remember that Aokiji took his arm not Crocodile.

Crocodile IMO would be like 500 million threat bounty. Half of Doflamingo IMO.

There is no commander level unless you’re trying to tell me that Vista and Izo are on the same level?
Even minister Oven who is not a commander would destroy commander izo in a fight, so does that mean Minister Oven would beat Vista or Jozu in a fight too?

Why would they be on the same level?
Oven is a Minister which would be the next rank after the sweet commanders if you did not know.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Listen what you are saying. Theory =/= Facts. Until know, he is not Yonkou Level, looking at his feats at Marineford at beat is admiral level. I saw a theory that he is not Yonkou Level :V

By feats Mihawk fought a Yonko and was never stated to have lost, an admiral on the other hand has lost to a Yonko during the war. That is why Mihawk is theorized to be stronger than an admiral. So these theorys are based on legit hype/feats that are said in the manga.

Why dont bring scans or quotes to back your statement? Why make this hard? If you have clear evidence for what you are saying then just bring it. But as far in the Manga, nothing proves he was a Yonkou when he fought Mihawk. Pre time skip was 10 years after chapter one and Shanks stood there for a year that would make 11 years since Mihawk has not fought him.

Now, if you bring some scan or quote to prove that he was a Yonkou during the time Ace became a pirate, that would be 3 years before Luffy so that would be 8 years since he fought Mihawk. Still does not prove that 11 years ago was already a Yonkou, it will just prove he became was Yonkou 3 year before Luffy became Pirate.

About Lola, she was 3 years in Thriller Bark which is the same example as above, even if was 5 years it would be the same.

Why don't you read the manga instead of waiting for someone to spoon feed you information?
Shanks did bet his arm through a Sea king for Luffy:

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As for the Ace part it was obvious that he was a yonko before he set sail because he came to visit him during his voyage. On top of that during the time Ace joined WB's ship, Ace asked Thatch and Blackbeard who on WB's ship gave Shanks that scar. Thatch replies that nobody knows because whoever did it would be a big deal because he is a yonko
Read the link here, Ace's voyage talks about Shanks being a Yonko:

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Lola being in Thriller Park for 3 years has nothing to do with her leaving her mom over a decade ago. She left when Pudding was around 7 or 8 years old here:

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She wanted Lola to marry many years ago so that she can gain power to take down Whitebeard, Kaido, AND SHANKS

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Just further proving my point that Shanks was a Yonko 10 or 11 years ago since you want to get technical with the timeskip.

I am not denying what Robin said, I am proving to you that Teach had another accomplishments before fighting Marco which also involved about him having an Emperor Title and this is also true. Don't deny he also did another things, you wont be an Emperor just because you beat a first mate, this is silly.

Well you're wrong because Robin specifically said "It was ONLY AFTER this major confrontation" that Blackbeard became Yonko right after Marco and group's defeat. So to argue otherwise is just foolish on your part because the manga made it very clear. What whatever speculative accomplishments you think Blackbeard obtained to attribute to his title is nothing but a mere speculation.

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Whether you think it's silly or not, you're not Oda. The fact that Luffy became a Yonko after defeating a Yonko First Mate is common sense that defeating a YFM=Yonko title. And there was no properties owned by Luffy before obtaining that title proving your assumption wrong once again. Just read the manga and follow it word for word, making up your own scenario just because it sounds right to you will get you absolutely nowhere and further in confusion later down the road.

Snake Man and Tank Man is Gear 4, until he brings a Gear 5 then complain, until then it is the same Gear 4. Nothing suggests Snake Man and Tank Man >> Bound Man. By feats, Bound Man is superior.

BoundMan is not superior by feats and that's just silly. By feats Cracker and Dogtooth fought BounceMan and still wasn't taken down. Luffy needed to use both BounceMan and SnakeMan/TankMan just to beat Cracker and Dogtooth. If BounceMan was enough then it would've defeated them Cracker and Dogtooth in the first place while
Doflamingo couldn't last 20 minutes longer against BounceMan, and Luffy fought Cracker and Dogtooth for 10-11 hours using both two Gear 4 transformations while Dofy had only one. Gear 5 is fanfic. Just because Dofy is your fav doesn't mean he's stronger, the gab in power is as clear as day.

Please name all these people that Luffy had to fight to reach Doflamingo please. And If Doflamingo used trick or not, not important, it was his plans which is what counts.

The Colosseum, half of the executives, the officers, the grunts, trebol, and bellamy. What kind of question is that? The more you use haki the more it depletes. All that time Luffy was fighting taking accumulative damages from the opponents in Dressrosa, Dofy was sitting up there with Trebol doing nothing at all.

After yes, but he had other things. I brought you the manga, Jimbei said he had Whitebeard Territories, fodder might conquer some territories since Teach was not in the new world, once there he conque all except one as Marco said in the last chapter. And Teach having a fleet is not speculation, we saw in chapter 904 or 903 there were pirates of Teach in islands.

That doesn't mean Teach went and conquered all of Whitebeard's territories otherwise Big mom wouldn't of had Fisherman island.
Teach was in the New world after the War just so you know, so you're wrong on that part. Teach having a fleet before the Timeskip is a speculation, chapter 903 or 904 is one year prior to him gaining the Yonko title.

Law bounty went up from 440 to 500 million, only an increse of 60 million. His last increasements dont matter, here in dresrossa Zoro had and 200 million increase while Luffy had 100 million. How do you explain that?

Danger level and association with Luffy. Like I said before, Sanji's bounty went up even higher than Zoro's did and he didn't even do anything, Nami and the rest went up too.
Besides that Luffy's bounty has gone up 100 million times every time he defeats a Warlord, this happened with Crocodile and Moria too.

Chill, I never said that Ace was not Warlord level. I said Ace has a lot potential and power, so he having the place of second commander was ok just as Shanks said so. So now Crocodile took out Jozu? Hahahaha I remember that Aokiji took his arm not Crocodile.

Crocodile IMO would be like 500 million threat bounty. Half of Doflamingo IMO.

He did take out Jozu momentarily, sent him flying with sables. Just like how Jinbei took out Moria momentarily as well.

Why would they be on the same level?
Oven is a Minister which would be the next rank after the sweet commanders if you did not know.

Oven would not be ranked after a sweet commander since there are other ministers on the same level or a bit stronger than him. Snack has been demoted from the Sweet commander ranks yet he's still stronger than Oven.
So since you agree that they aren't on the same level then there is no such thing as a commander level. There are commanders on yonko ship who are weaker than a vice admiral and are on rear admiral or captain level class.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

Of course how cynical of you. This comes to no suprise since you’re one of those people that likes to alienate the common sense of a warlord level especially after the comment that was made by the marines in regard to the yonko’s conversation.
If you’re gonna do one of those typical troll things that you do then please take it to the Naruto section. I know that nobody in their right mind would regard the legit original seven warlords of the seas as scrubs.

They were scrubs.