How powerful is the Kinkaku and Ginkaku brothers?

[Rikudou Tobi]

I was reading the databook section for a while until I found something interesting is that these brother with the kyuubi chakra and tools were said to posses the power to surpass the 5 kages.

p. 313
Konoha
Hundred Leaf Collection #77 - The Sage of the Six Paths Tools

Immeasurable power hidden in the Six Path’s Sacred Treasures
The Legendary Treasured tools passed down by Kumogakure

Handed down since ancient times by Kumogakure, are these five mighty shinobi tools. They are called the Sage of the Six Path’s Tools, items that are said, those who exceptionally (more than enough) demonstrate their power surpass even the Gokage/Five Kage. However, their usage expends enormous amounts of chakra, hence ordinary people will not be able to use them. Kumo’s Kinkaku and Ginkaku, using this power and the Nine Tails’ (Kyuubi’s) chakra, inflicted heavy injuries unto the Second Raikage and Second Hokage that brought them close to the brink of death.

Golden Canopy Rope (幌金縄 Koukinjou)
A rope that expels the word-soul (kotodama, spirit word) of whomever it touches. The person’s most frequently said phrase represents the word-soul and is squeezed/tugged out.

Seven Star Sword (七星剣 Shichiseiken)
A cursed treasured-sword used to cut the opponent’s word-soul. Its chakra expenditure exceeds other Treasured Tools.

Crimson Gourd (紅葫蘆 Benihisago)
With the word-soul stolen from their mouths, the persons who remain silent are sucked into the gourd, and sealed.

Amber Purifying Pot (琥珀の浄瓶 Kohaku no Jouhei)
A pot that seals those who respond to being called. This was used to seal Kumo’s Eight Tails (Hachibi).

Banana Fan (芭蕉扇 Bashousen)
A fan that summons/creates all of the five-natured techniques. With a single sweep, it envelops the enemy in a violent wind (gale) akin to a natural disaster (of catastrophic degree/proportions).

And considering that they were able to bring Tobirama and A near death before escaping barely alive, I wouldn't doubt this hype.

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So that would mean that if you switch Edo Madara's place with Ginkakau and Kinkaku during the war, the outcome would pretty much be the same. So with that in mind, how powerful are these brothers?
List the strongest character they can fight or stalemate in your own opinion.



Title edit:
"How powerful are the Kinkaku and Ginkaku brothers?"

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

<div class="bbWrapper">Very :sdo:<br /> <br /> Until you realise that they were solo'd by Darui who was arguably jonin/kage. Then again, he had a fodder and a giant pair of boobies with a bowl cut sacrifice themselves so he could catch on to the sage tool tricks. Then again, all the edos bar Madara got shafted.</div>

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Very :sdo:

Until you realise that they were solo'd by Darui who was arguably jonin/kage.

Well I did realize that they were edo tensei (not full power) being controlled while missing one more tool that Tobi grabbed for himself.
And yes, they still shouldn't lose to Darui w/subordinates but we've seen things like sagemode naruto being able to "solo" the six paths of pain given selective situations to support the naruto story line.

On a serious note though, what level do you really think they are in?

 

[The Necromancer]

Well I did realize that they were edo tensei (not full power) being controlled while missing one more tool that Tobi grabbed for himself.
And yes, they still shouldn't lose to Darui w/subordinates but we've seen things like sagemode naruto being able to "solo" the six paths of pain given selective situations to support the naruto story line.

On a serious note though, what level do you really think they are in?

They never had that tool to begin with, and Obito only took it after they were sealed away.

So the Amber Purifying Pot was never a factor.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

They never had that tool to begin with, and Obito only took it after they were sealed away.

So the Amber Purifying Pot was never a factor.

1. They did have the tools

2. I'm talking about when they were alive, that's why I brought up them being edo tensei a factor.
When they were alive they had all of the tools.

 

[The Necromancer]

1. They did have the tools

2. I'm talking about when they were alive, that's why I brought up them being edo tensei a factor.
When they were alive they had all of the tools.

I thought you were referring specifically to when they were revived.

 

[EZQ]

If we anallyze Tobirama vs Gin and Kin brothers only by feats it's safe to say Tobirama wins no more than Med diff. Something must have happened there.

Maybe they just ambushed him.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

I thought you were referring specifically to when they were revived.

No. I'm aware that when they were edo tensei they were missing one more powerful tool that further handicap their full potential.

If we anallyze Tobirama vs Gin and Kin brothers only by feats it's safe to say Tobirama wins no more than Med diff. Something must have happened there.

Maybe they just ambushed him.

But you also have to remember by feats that Tobirama was brought back near 100% while Gin/Kin weren't even close and they were missing one more tool powerful enough to seal/stop the Hachibi. It's comparing 75% to 95%, it's not going to be fair.

 

[The Necromancer]

No. I'm aware that when they were edo tensei they were missing one more powerful tool that further handicap their full potential.



But you also have to remember by feats that Tobirama was brought back near 100% while Gin/Kin weren't even close and they were missing one more tool powerful enough to seal/stop the Hachibi. It's comparing 75% to 95%, it's not going to be fair.

They were brought back weaker, but their tools were not, and they never used any other abilities, so saying that they were weakened is almost false.

Their skills wouldn't come back limited, only their chakra, which would make their jutsus less effective, but since they don't use jutsus, it doesn't really matter.

 

[BlacLord™]

It's not surprising their power surpasses the Gokage; they had an extremely tight battle with Tobirama, of which apparently ended as a draw since they knew of the Third Raikage's reign despite the battle taking place during the Second's reign, and Tobirama had gone onto another mission with his unit.


Anyone who can pull a draw/stalemate with Tobirama isn't a joke. But people often underestimate them because they were took down in their Edo state, forgetting that the ASF had advantages he didn't; full intel, 1000s of support shinobi (including Shikamaru, Chouji, Chouza etc.) and one of the tools themselves; the Kohaku no Johei, which made finishing them a lot easier. Plus, Tobirama and Second A were ambushed.


And no Tobious, the Kin/Gin brothers were brought back at the same proportional strength because it was Kabuto who near-perfected ET before the War had started.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

They were brought back weaker, but their tools were not, and they never used any other abilities, so saying that they were weakened is almost false.

They were missing their last most powerful tool which is a weakened state. It's like Tobirama/Minato being brought back without FTG seals so undoubtedly they're gonna be weaker.

Their skills wouldn't come back limited, only their chakra, which would make their jutsus less effective, but since they don't use jutsus, it doesn't really matter.

Yes their skills will be weakened as well. When Part 1 Orochimaru brought back the edo first and second hokage, their movements were garbage as Hiruzen outclassed them in every taijutsu exchnge and tools/skills like using ftg or even sagemode were also stripped away in that level of edo tensei. So Kin/Gin suffered the same situation here and one of them didn't even use the energy from his v2 cloak. Not a single tailed beast bomb fired.

It's not surprising their power surpasses the Gokage; they had an extremely tight battle with Tobirama, of which apparently ended as a draw since they knew of the Third Raikage's reign despite the battle taking place during the Second's reign, and Tobirama had gone onto another mission with his unit.


Anyone who can pull a draw/stalemate with Tobirama isn't a joke. But people often underestimate them because they were took down in their Edo state, forgetting that the ASF had advantages he didn't; full intel, 1000s of support shinobi (including Shikamaru, Chouji, Chouza etc.) and one of the tools themselves; the Kohaku no Johei, which made finishing them a lot easier. Plus, Tobirama and Second A were ambushed.


And no Tobious, the Kin/Gin brothers were brought back at the same proportional strength because it was Kabuto who near-perfected ET before the War had started.

Kin/Gin brothers were not brought back at same proportional strength. Kabuto perfected the use of ET that much is true, but he did not bring them near strength like Orochimaru did with the edo hokages. The only thing he claimed that he improved the performance level of edo Madara past his prime because of the enhancements he made with Madara's body.
-improving the hashirama's tissue in his body
-Gave him fake edo rinnegans because madara died without his rinnegan.
-Restored him to his prime age because madara died at 80+ years

Other than that, I've seen no claim from Kabuto that he brought the other edo tensei near full strength or increase their capabilities better than they were when they were alive.

 

[Magnolius]

They were missing their last most powerful tool which is a weakened state. It's like Tobirama/Minato being brought back without FTG seals so undoubtedly they're gonna be weaker.

Yes their skills will be weakened as well. When Part 1 Orochimaru brought back the edo first and second hokage, their movements were garbage as Hiruzen outclassed them in every taijutsu exchnge and tools/skills like using ftg or even sagemode were also stripped away in that level of edo tensei. So Kin/Gin suffered the same situation here and one of them didn't even use the energy from his v2 cloak. Not a single tailed beast bomb fired.



Kin/Gin brothers were not brought back at same proportional strength. Kabuto perfected the use of ET that much is true, but he did not bring them near strength like Orochimaru did with the edo hokages. The only thing he claimed that he improved the performance level of edo Madara past his prime because of the enhancements he made with Madara's body.
-improving the hashirama's tissue in his body
-Gave him fake edo rinnegans because madara died without his rinnegan.
-Restored him to his prime age because madara died at 80+ years

Other than that, I've seen no claim from Kabuto that he brought the other edo tensei near full strength or increase their capabilities better than they were when they were alive.

Tell em' like it is, Son.

 

[The Necromancer]

They were missing their last most powerful tool which is a weakened state. It's like Tobirama/Minato being brought back without FTG seals so undoubtedly they're gonna be weaker.

Yes their skills will be weakened as well. When Part 1 Orochimaru brought back the edo first and second hokage, their movements were garbage as Hiruzen outclassed them in every taijutsu exchnge and tools/skills like using ftg or even sagemode were also stripped away in that level of edo tensei. So Kin/Gin suffered the same situation here and one of them didn't even use the energy from his v2 cloak. Not a single tailed beast bomb fired.



Kin/Gin brothers were not brought back at same proportional strength. Kabuto perfected the use of ET that much is true, but he did not bring them near strength like Orochimaru did with the edo hokages. The only thing he claimed that he improved the performance level of edo Madara past his prime because of the enhancements he made with Madara's body.
-improving the hashirama's tissue in his body
-Gave him fake edo rinnegans because madara died without his rinnegan.
-Restored him to his prime age because madara died at 80+ years

Other than that, I've seen no claim from Kabuto that he brought the other edo tensei near full strength or increase their capabilities better than they were when they were alive.

That was due to Orochimaru wiping their minds, and turning them into puppets to be controlled, rather than allowing them to have free (though limited) will.

Kabuto explained that his tags allowed his edos to function better, and identically to when they were alive.

 

[Angelic.]

the fact that the kage werent sealed shows that it was their base power that was a tough fight
too bad they are fodder characters

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

That was due to Orochimaru wiping their minds, and turning them into puppets to be controlled, rather than allowing them to have free (though limited) will.

Kabuto explained that his tags allowed his edos to function better, and identically to when they were alive.

Kabuto did that to mess with the allied shinobi force. Because Nagato was stripped away his free will and was controlled like a puppet yet he still handled Naruto and bee better than he did with his personality.