[Theory] How Madara could possibly return.

EVlL

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
3,936
Reaction score
204
it was to get out of the dimension. if he put his rinnegan after they got out he wouldnt make it because naruto and sasuke is there. and can izanagi be used for him but in someone else's body? i doubt it. and we know the case is different from itachi and sasuke amaterasu.
 

Dondaime Hokage Naruto

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
1,758
Reaction score
104
As I was rereading the manga recently, I had realized something.

Madara had known what the tree really was. Once he absorbed the tree, he had said something that had caught my eye.
You must be registered for see images
As you can see, after Madara absorbed the tree, he said "I see...so the holy tree itself..."

According to Black Zetsu, the Juubi was not just the tree coming to get all the chakra back, but Kaguya's will as well.
You must be registered for see images

When he absorbed the tree, Madara had put two and two together and realized that Kaguya's will was inside the tree.

After he came back from the Kamui dimension, he gave Black Zetsu Obito's left eye back.
You must be registered for see images

Could this have been to cast another delayed Izanagi to bring him back to life? We already know Madara did it before.
You must be registered for see images
We also know that Mangekyo techniques can be transferred through other people through this as well.

Could Madara of possibly implanted a delayed Izanagi into Obito's left eye, like Itachi did to Sasuke, gave it to Black Zetsu, and planned to come back if anything went wrong?
I like a lot your theory!! Also we have to remember that Kishi likes a lot to repeat things! (like the PS and Kurama combo of Madara which was used against Obito!).. So I believe this action of Madara's Izanagi will be repeated but in a different way! Something like this you said my friend!
 

Shinato

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
2,810
Reaction score
514


This is impossible, its not even remotely possible. I'll explain why.

Izanagi is the Jutsu of the Uchiha which alters the user's reality to their liking so that they can get the results that they wish. It cannot alter the reality of anyone else than its user, meaning that if Obito uses a "delayed" Izanagi out of his Sharingan then it would only be able to affect him. In order for Izanagi to be able to bring Madara back, the one who would have to use it is Madara himself. That is why it was Madara's dead body that used Izanagi the first time, and not someone/something else like a random Sharingan.

 

shuu

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2014
Messages
53
Reaction score
3


This is impossible, its not even remotely possible. I'll explain why.

Izanagi is the Jutsu of the Uchiha which alters the user's reality to their liking so that they can get the results that they wish. It cannot alter the reality of anyone else than its user, meaning that if Obito uses a "delayed" Izanagi out of his Sharingan then it would only be able to affect him. In order for Izanagi to be able to bring Madara back, the one who would have to use it is Madara himself. That is why it was Madara's dead body that used Izanagi the first time, and not someone/something else like a random Sharingan.


The user would be Madara. The person being affected would be Madara-- it would just be while the eye was in Obito's body.
 

Ventuis

Leaf Village Regular 🍃
Regular
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
Messages
760
Reaction score
47


This is impossible, its not even remotely possible. I'll explain why.

Izanagi is the Jutsu of the Uchiha which alters the user's reality to their liking so that they can get the results that they wish. It cannot alter the reality of anyone else than its user, meaning that if Obito uses a "delayed" Izanagi out of his Sharingan then it would only be able to affect him. In order for Izanagi to be able to bring Madara back, the one who would have to use it is Madara himself. That is why it was Madara's dead body that used Izanagi the first time, and not someone/something else like a random Sharingan.


At least you gave evidence.
 

Shinato

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
2,810
Reaction score
514
The user would be Madara. The person being affected would be Madara-- it would just be while the eye was in Obito's body.


The user would be Obito even if it was Madara's Izanagi. Same as the user would be Obito even if he used Madara's war fan. (Which he did.)

 

shuu

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2014
Messages
53
Reaction score
3


The user would be Obito even if it was Madara's Izanagi. Same as the user would be Obito even if he used Madara's war fan. (Which he did.)


Your comparison is silly because it is a jutsu that is cast and then delayed. It would be casted by Madara but activated while it was in Obito's head.
The war fan is an object. Not a jutsu. They are not 'used' or activated in the same way jutsu are.

Similarly, if Madara put an explosion seal on the back of an eyeball that was set to explode in 48 hours, and then put it into Obito's head, and it exploded in 48 hours, the user of the explosion seal would be Madara, not Obito despite the eye being within his skull.
 

Shinato

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
2,810
Reaction score
514
Your comparison is silly because it is a jutsu that is cast and then delayed. It would be casted by Madara but activated while it was in Obito's head.
The war fan is an object. Not a jutsu. They are not 'used' or activated in the same way jutsu are.

Similarly, if Madara put an explosion seal on the back of an eyeball that was set to explode in 48 hours, and then put it into Obito's head, and it exploded in 48 hours, the user of the explosion seal would be Madara, not Obito despite the eye being within his skull.


Izanagi is the Jutsu that casts on its user to alter their reality. Izanagi is a powerful Genjutsu that is cast upon oneself at the trade of ones "light". I cannot affect anyone else but the user, no matter what. (That is a fact about Izanagi.) Now, Madara was never directly killed, he was turned into Kaguya after absorbing a great amount of chakra. Izanagi cannot create a new reality, it merely alters the reality to the user's liking. If Madara was to revived through this Jutsu then he would need to alter the reality of him turning into Kaugya and fusing with Black Zetsu, meaning he would need to alter the reality of Kaguya and Black Zetsu as well.

Which is not possible with Izanagi as it is only able to alter the reality of its user. (So even by your logic, which I still mean is wrong, it wouldn't be possible.)

 

shuu

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2014
Messages
53
Reaction score
3


Izanagi is the Jutsu that casts on its user to alter their reality. Izanagi is a powerful Genjutsu that is cast upon oneself at the trade of ones "light". I cannot affect anyone else but the user, no matter what. (That is a fact about Izanagi.) Now, Madara was never directly killed, he was turned into Kaguya after absorbing a great amount of chakra. Izanagi cannot create a new reality, it merely alters the reality to the user's liking. If Madara was to revived through this Jutsu then he would need to alter the reality of him turning into Kaugya and fusing with Black Zetsu, meaning he would need to alter the reality of Kaguya and Black Zetsu as well.

Which is not possible with Izanagi as it is only able to alter the reality of its user. (So even by your logic, which I still mean is wrong, it wouldn't be possible.)

There is only one reality. For me to change my reality, i am changing the reality of all those who share the same singular reality. When Danzou died, it was the reality for Sasuke that he died, the reality for Karin, etc, etc to have seen him died, and the reality for Danzou to be dead. Nonetheless, he brought himself back to life.

The usage of Madara's Izanagi would allow him to revive. I do not think he used/will use Izanagi, but it is certainly possible that he could have.
 

Shinato

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
2,810
Reaction score
514
There is only one reality. For me to change my reality, i am changing the reality of all those who share the same singular reality. When Danzou died, it was the reality for Sasuke that he died, the reality for Karin, etc, etc to have seen him died, and the reality for Danzou to be dead. Nonetheless, he brought himself back to life.

The usage of Madara's Izanagi would allow him to revive. I do not think he used/will use Izanagi, but it is certainly possible that he could have.


Okay, let me explain Izanagi again.

Izanagi is the Jutsu that allows its user to alter their own physical reality. It does not allow them to alter their spiritual reality or the reality of others. That is why Karin, Obito and Sasuke saw Danzo "die" when in reality he didn't. He altered his physical state of being while the spiritual remained the same as always. Izanagi works by casting a powerful Genjutsu on yourself in order to use your imagination (also know and spiritual power/Yin) to alter your physical state of being (also known as existing/reality/Yang.)

This is the concept of Izanagi, a Genjutsu that uses the power of Yin to alter the existence of Yang. While Izanami is a Genjutsu that uses the power of Yang to alter the existence of Yin. This is why Madara cannot come back with this method. The only method that we know that would be able to bring Madara back is Edo Tensei. (As Rinne no Tensei and Izanagi both uses Madara's real body which is now Kaguya's.)

If Madara were to alter his physical state of being/physical reality, he would alter Black Zetsu's and Kaguya's as well, which he is unable to with Izanagi as it is only able to affect the physical state of being of the user who used the Genjutsu.

 

Angelic.

Legendary Shinobi 🐸
Supreme
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
23,034
Reaction score
1,537
why would he when he believed himself to be immortal? i dont think he was planning on being taken over.

well madaras body is in kaguya now, except the legs. so if he got lucky by sasuke cutting him in half and izanagi activates his legs to regen maybe. doubt it tho.
 

shuu

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2014
Messages
53
Reaction score
3


Okay, let me explain Izanagi again.

Izanagi is the Jutsu that allows its user to alter their own physical reality. It does not allow them to alter their spiritual reality or the reality of others. That is why Karin, Obito and Sasuke saw Danzo "die" when in reality he didn't. He altered his physical state of being while the spiritual remained the same as always. Izanagi works by casting a powerful Genjutsu on yourself in order to use your imagination (also know and spiritual power/Yin) to alter your physical state of being (also known as existing/reality/Yang.)

This is the concept of Izanagi, a Genjutsu that uses the power of Yin to alter the existence of Yang. While Izanami is a Genjutsu that uses the power of Yang to alter the existence of Yin. This is why Madara cannot come back with this method. The only method that we know that would be able to bring Madara back is Edo Tensei. (As Rinne no Tensei and Izanagi both uses Madara's real body which is now Kaguya's.)

If Madara were to alter his physical state of being/physical reality, he would alter Black Zetsu's and Kaguya's as well, which he is unable to with Izanagi as it is only able to affect the physical state of being of the user who used the Genjutsu.

I don't think you know what reality is.

There is one reality. It is physical and spiritual.

You also seem to forget that half of Madara's body is not part of Kaguya.
And Izanagi would be capable of reverting the change from Madara -> Kaguya, but then again he could just target his other half of his body that wasn't even changed.
Because it alters reality.
 

Shinato

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
2,810
Reaction score
514
I don't think you know what reality is.

There is one reality. It is physical and spiritual.

You also seem to forget that half of Madara's body is not part of Kaguya.
And Izanagi would be capable of reverting the change from Madara -> Kaguya, but then again he could just target his other half of his body that wasn't even changed.
Because it alters reality.


You have spiritual and physical reality.

Physical Reality
This is the reality of what physically exists, what we can touch, what we can feel and what existence is made up of. The main location of this reality is "the physical world", also know under different names such as; The Impure world, Life and The world.

Spiritual Reality
This is the reality as we see it, as we think it is and as we decide it is. If a person sees ghosts and things that aren't physical there, then that is reality to them. (Even though it is not to everyone else.) This is spiritual reality. The main location of this reality is Afterlife, but its known under different names such as; Imagination, Mind and Spirit.

Reality to us is fluid, yet we its also decided already. What we think may or may not be true and people live their lives following what they think is real and what they think is not. What they think is right and wrong, what they think is life and death, what they think is love and hate. Yet, there is no way to decide which one is which as we describe these things using words which we have created. These words are flawed, in the same manner as humans a flawed. That is why Reality is fluid and changing to us. If we don't like the world, we come up with an idea using our minds of how we'd like it to be. Then we use our physical power and body to make that idea into reality. (All in all, changing the old reality into something new of our liking.)

The concept of Izanagi is a concept which uses the Spiritual Reality of one person to affect the Physical realm for the user. The user casts and Genjutsu upon themselves, making them see the reality they want and change their own reality into the reality of their choosing. (That is how Izanagi works.) Izanagi also has its limit and can only alter the reality of something right after it has happen or in a small time frame after. Beyond that, Madara's lower body is still part of the body that became Kaguya. In order for him to be able to "revive" from that body using Izanagi he would need to alter the following:

He would need to alter it so that Sasuke never cut of his body in the first place, thus leaving his body as a whole again. This would mean that Hagoromo would never appear before the Hokage and it would also alter the reality of Obito, making this impossible through the use of Izanagi.

 

shuu

Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2014
Messages
53
Reaction score
3
All he would have to do is alter the reality of his lower body regenerating his upper section. His upper body that has become Kaguya is no longer his body, and is no longer physically Madara.
It does not mean that Hagoromo wouldn't appear, because Madara could regenerate after he had already appeared. Danzou regenerating his body didn't erase Sasuke's memory and sight of seeing Danzou die, likewise everything that would've happened, would've still happened.
 

Shinato

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
2,810
Reaction score
514
All he would have to do is alter the reality of his lower body regenerating his upper section. His upper body that has become Kaguya is no longer his body, and is no longer physically Madara.
It does not mean that Hagoromo wouldn't appear, because Madara could regenerate after he had already appeared. Danzou regenerating his body didn't erase Sasuke's memory and sight of seeing Danzou die, likewise everything that would've happened, would've still happened.


When Danzo used Izanagi, the physical reality of him dying was erased, the spiritual was not. (The memories.) Izanagi can only alter what has happen, not create a new reality from scratch. Meaning that if Madara wishes to create a complete body out of the legs that are left he would need to alter the reality of of being cut in half to begin with. (If he does that then either his legs will be gone as he would have been made into Kaguya regardless) or it won't work as it would affect the reality of Kaguya and Black Zetsu as well. What you are stating is that with Izanagi a user can create a new reality of their liking, that is not what Izanagi does.

 
Top