How does depth make a character?

[chaos control]

I just finished reading another thread comparing two characters and it got me thinking:

Why do so many people choose depth over success/feats when judging what a "good character" or a well written character is?

Personally, I say that the things a character does and achieves say a lot more about a character than any words or flashbacks.

For example: Imagine that a new academy graduate were to just suddenly be introduced to the series. Now imagine that this graduate instantly is able to come up with a method to fix all of the political and economic problems within the shinobi world. They are also insanely powerful and are able to solo the juubi.

To me, that says so much about this character. It says that this character is a deep thinker that is dedicated towards helping the world. Furthermore, this character is diligent for being able to train his power to such a point. (We are assuming this character has no kekkei genkai, bijuu, special clan, or transmigration and they have never met any of the Ootsutsuki family). This kind of dedication shows a phenomenal work ethic and his plans to solve all political and economic problems show vast wisdom and intelligence.

Aren't these great qualities? All of these great qualities can be seen through actions.

However, a lot of people seem to prefer "depth" and "development" and "personality". How does that make a good character? What will these things accomplish? Giving me a flashback about the character's childhood won't advance the story (usually) and it won't do anything really.

Take Kabuto for example. His flash backs were totally unnecessary. Kabuto is a pretty decent character, and he would have remained so even if we hadn't gotten his flashbacks. Why is this?, you may ask.

From the chuunin exams arc in part 1 all the way to now, Kabuto has shown himself to be cunning, calculative and manipulative through his actions. He successfully deceived team 7 into believing that he was on their side and got the craved information about candidates and about Sasuke that Orochimaru so desired.

When he faced Tsunade, who he knew was stronger than him, he was able to play his cards carefully, resist the effects of Tsunade's paralysis jutsu by analyzing what body parts moved when he tried to move other parts, and even take advantage of Tsunade's hemophobia and ultimately defeat her. She had to be saved by Naruto. He even thought fast and was able to survive Naruto's rasengan through his quick thinking.

Kabuto was even able to properly threaten Obito and force Obito to let him join the war effort! Furthermore, Kabuto showed diligence and dedication by finding the ryuchi cave and mastering sage mode (something that his master could not do)!

Kabuto is genius! Don't all of these actions speak for themselves? Isn't the expression, "actions speak louder than words"? Charismatic statements and displays of emotion and personality don't matter. It is what you do and how you live your life that determines your character.

That is why I say that actions/feats >>>>>> "depth" and "development".

This is partially why I love characters like Madara, Obito, Kaguya, Hagoromo, Naruto, Black Zetsu, etc... These are good and well written characters.

Conclusion:

Actions >>>>>> "Depth"

Share your thoughts.

 

[Xlad]

Well, all I can tell you is that we dem boyz. I also just let you know that it's their opinion and get ready for another sotrm.

 

[The Masked Sage]

I agree






























yes I do

 

[Jack Spicer]

Man....I know what I need to do here.




I agree. Solid post.

 

[Sentinel of Light Style]

There is truth in your words, but character development is still necessary to make a good story.

 

[GhostProject]

Depth and Personality make a character unique. It shows us how that character will respond to a situation based on their personality and values, which in turn gives us something original that we can relate to or find interesting.

Note how few people seemed to like Kaguya. She's the most powerful in the manga, yet nobody liked her because she lacked depth.

On the other hand, popular characters like Naruto, Obito, Madara, Sasuke, Itachi are well loved because they show depth and VERY strong personalities.

Likewise a good character needs feats/actions, but depth is usually the utmost priority for a good character.

 

[Kαmi]

Because I enjoy a character who seems like they have been built up to an extent and seems unique rather than just being thrown in the plot and extending it by actions that I don't understand. It works for some characters but not for most that I like. You need a little of both to have a good character but having all actions and no build just looks like a plot device. It's nice to have plot be progressed but flashbacks add more depth to a story so when plot progression happens, you can understand it for what it really is and appreciate it more.

 

[cafe123]

In most cases, it's good, sometimes it's unneeded, I agree with Kabuto, he didn't need his own backstory IMO.

 

[chaos control]

Depth and Personality make a character unique. It shows us how that character will respond to a situation based on their personality and values, which in turn gives us something original that we can relate to or find interesting.

Note how few people seemed to like Kaguya. She's the most powerful in the manga, yet nobody liked her because she lacked depth.

On the other hand, popular characters like Naruto, Obito, Madara, Sasuke, Itachi are well loved because they show depth and VERY strong personalities.

Likewise a good character needs feats/actions, but depth is usually the utmost priority for a good character.

However, being able to discern a character's qualities through their actions shows a level of deeper analysis and understanding of the true meanings of things like dedication and determination. In other words, actions give more development than words and personalities do. Example:

I could either...

Run around the city waving flyers and streamers while throwing a parade and charismatically claiming my determination to end world hunger.

Or...

I could just stay silent and quickly and efficiently end world hunger rather than just claiming it.

Which one is better in your opinion?

 

[Migster257]

Conclusion: Each person has different likes and dislikes.

I prefer depth because it feels like I can relate to the character better.

For example: Naruto never really connected with me. His background/personality/actions never interested me and still don't. He just isn't a character I'm particularly fond of. If we focused on Naruto's actions, you'd realize that he's saved Konoha, has saved countless people, and is basically saving the world. There's really nothing else to it. It's bland. What you see is what you get. I don't care for someone else that I can't relate to or understand, why should I?

Kakashi, on the other hand, really interested me. There's a certain something about his personality that draws me towards him, and reminds me of myself in many ways. He acts cool most of the time, but underneath that, he shows that he has emotions. He feels just like everybody else, and when he was younger, he was misunderstood. I'd always thought of myself as the same. I usually kept to myself and never really showed any emotion to people that I wasn't incredibly close to.

Conclusion: Depth allows us to relate with characters and care more about them. I really don't care about someone that I just watch "do." I want to be with someone and in their journey, instead of a bystander.

 

[Shadow Phantasm]

Because without depth a character is bland.You have to give a character something that makes them unique.

 

[chaos control]

Because without depth a character is bland.You have to give a character something that makes them unique.

Not everybody has the mental capacity or the power to end all political and economic problems. Therefore if someone comes along who does, they are very unique by default regardless of flashbacks or their personality. This is what I mean when I say that feats do equate to uniqueness and depth.

 

[Titania Erza]

You only state your own opinion and then come up with a self-made conclusion. I guess somebody is either in primary school or an early high school drop-out/truant. Besides you are contradicting yourself.

From the chuunin exams arc in part 1 all the way to now, Kabuto has shown himself to be cunning, calculative and manipulative through his actions. He successfully deceived team 7 into believing that he was on their side and got the craved information about candidates and about Sasuke that Orochimaru so desired.

When he faced Tsunade, who he knew was stronger than him, he was able to play his cards carefully, resist the effects of Tsunade's paralysis jutsu by analyzing what body parts moved when he tried to move other parts, and even take advantage of Tsunade's hemophobia and ultimately defeat her. She had to be saved by Naruto. He even thought fast and was able to survive Naruto's rasengan through his quick thinking.

Kabuto was even able to properly threaten Obito and force Obito to let him join the war effort! Furthermore, Kabuto showed diligence and dedication by finding the ryuchi cave and mastering sage mode (something that his master could not do)!

Kabuto is genius! Don't all of these actions speak for themselves? Isn't the expression, "actions speak louder than words"? Charismatic statements and displays of emotion and personality don't matter. It is what you do and how you live your life that determines your character.

No matter how you look at it, the first bolded part of the qoute is a part of his character depth. What you don't like is the background story, which tells us how a character has developed into what you see in the manga/anime. According to you, they shouldn't even had to revealing anything about Naruto's past or the Sage of 6 paths, since Naruto randomly getting Sage powers is good enough. If you like it that way, who am I to tell you that you should change your opinion.

My advice to you is to play games like the original Mario/Sonic games, since that has 0% BG story. After all manga are still considered books and you read books for the decent story and not some random action

 

[DocThao]

b/c mary sues and gary stus are boring

 

[Kαmi]

However, being able to discern a character's qualities through their actions shows a level of deeper analysis and understanding of the true meanings of things like dedication and determination. In other words, actions give more development than words and personalities do. Example:

I could either...

Run around the city waving flyers and streamers while throwing a parade and charismatically claiming my determination to end world hunger.

Or...

I could just stay silent and quickly and efficiently end world hunger rather than just claiming it.

Which one is better in your opinion?

You realize we're talking about a story right? That's also a pretty biased comparison (kinda extreme too) since I imagine a person with depth would gather up facts about world hunger to show people just how much it is a problem to further convince them to end world hunger. Just saiyan

 

[Migster257]

Not everybody has the mental capacity or the power to end all political and economic problems. Therefore if someone comes along who does, they are very unique by default regardless of flashbacks or their personality. This is what I mean when I say that feats do equate to uniqueness and depth.

Still, that person is bland. Unique, yet bland at the same time. It's like watching someone do things without knowing what their motives are. I don't know what that person's personality is like. I honestly wouldn't care that much for a character if they ended all political and economic problems. I'd just think that guy's a good guy, but I'm not really interested in him. He's just another random that's irrelevant to me. Now, if he had something that interested me, or I could relate with, then I would like that character. Now of course, if an interest of yours is politics, then this person could very well be interesting to you. Like I said before, it depends on who you ask.

 

[chaos control]

You only state your own opinion and then come up with a self-made conclusion. I guess somebody is either in primary school or an early high school drop-out/truant. Besides you are contradicting yourself.

No matter how you look at it, the first bolded part of the qoute is a part of his character depth. What you don't like is the background story, which tells us how a character has developed into what you see in the manga/anime. According to you, they shouldn't even had to revealing anything about Naruto's past or the Sage of 6 paths, since Naruto randomly getting Sage powers is good enough. If you like it that way, who am I to tell you that you should change your opinion.

My advice to you is to play games like the original Mario/Sonic games, since that has 0% BG story. After all manga are still considered books and you read books for the decent story and not some random action

Clearly you are the drop out because:

I said that he has shown himself to be cunning with his actions, which was essentially the premise of my post. Actions speak louder than words and flashbacks and things of that nature.

Background for stuff like Hagoromo and the juubi is necessary because without it we wouldn't understand stuff like the eye of the moon plan.

I am just saying that we don't need stuff like Kabuto's childhood which didn't really advance the plot or even that battle. Kabuto could have just gotten out of Izanami and given Sasuke Hashirama's cells and then explained to the readers that being trapped in the loop made him see the hopelessness of his emulation of Orochimaru. The flashbacks did nothing. I am also saying that Kabuto's actions spoke more volumes to me about Kabuto than those flash backs.

A better question here is: Why are you so mad? Who just up and resorts to petty juvenile insults right off the bat with no provocation? I didn't bash any base members or any characters in my OP, and then you just come all mad bashing me, underestimating my level of education and even telling me what series to stick to just because I think that actions speak louder than words.

 

[Migster257]

Clearly you are the drop out because:

I said that he has shown himself to be cunning with his actions, which was essentially the premise of my post. Actions speak louder than words and flashbacks and things of that nature.

Background for stuff like Hagoromo and the juubi is necessary because without it we wouldn't understand stuff like the eye of the moon plan.

I am just saying that we don't need stuff like Kabuto's childhood which didn't really advance the plot or even that battle. Kabuto could have just gotten out of Izanami and given Sasuke Hashirama's cells and then explained to the readers that being trapped in the loop made him see the hopelessness of his emulation of Orochimaru. The flashbacks did nothing. I am also saying that Kabuto's actions spoke more volumes to me about Kabuto than those flash backs.

A better question here is: Why are you so mad? Who just up and resorts to petty juvenile insults right off the bat with no provocation? I didn't bash any base members or any characters in my OP, and then you just come all mad bashing me, underestimating my level of education and even telling me what series to stick to just because I think that actions speak louder than words.

I'm just wondering why you haven't responded to any of my posts lol

 

[chaos control]

I'm just wondering why you haven't responded to any of my posts lol

Sorry about that. I was dealing with that juvenile embodiment of arrogance and hostility. Thank you Migster for being civil while still having an opposing viewpoint.

Anyway, I see what you are saying about how it depends on what you are interested in. It could be that I have always been interested in things like invention/innovation, societal progress and things of this nature. Things like this require more action and feats than words, which could potentially be why I am subconsciously more inclined to see more positive qualities in those who showcase actions rather than the traditional mediums of "depth" such as flash backs and charismatic speeches.

However, if your interest is relatability and empathy to a character then I suppose your definition of depth would suffice in fulfilling your purpose for engaging in a series.

In short, I like your previous post. Good job.

 

[Migster257]

Sorry about that. I was dealing with that juvenile embodiment of arrogance and hostility. Thank you Migster for being civil while still having an opposing viewpoint.

Anyway, I see what you are saying about how it depends on what you are interested in. It could be that I have always been interested in things like invention/innovation, societal progress and things of this nature. Things like this require more action and feats than words, which could potentially be why I am subconsciously more inclined to see more positive qualities in those who showcase actions rather than the traditional mediums of "depth" such as flash backs and charismatic speeches.

However, if your interest is relatability and empathy to a character then I suppose your definition of depth would suffice in fulfilling your purpose for engaging in a series.

In short, I like your previous post. Good job.

Thank you. +rep for being cool about it.

As for Titania, she's just having a bad day. She's usually very kind.