How does a person completely disregard the existence of their friends and family..

[Conspirator.]

No idea. As for the message.............

 

[salsalover64]

You sounds like a feminist, hun.

And you sound like a troll. Look,...if you're going to try to troll me you'll have to try harder. At least put more effort into it and use proper spelling.

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[V h o]

Don't worry Sasuke only beats Sakura three times a day, and leaves her in a genjutsu Lol

 

[Listz]

And you sound like a troll. Look,...if you're going to try to troll me you'll have to try harder. At least put more effort into it and use proper spelling.

I don't even have to try harder since i'm not trolling you, nor to your thread, since your thread itself is trolling, despite the red warning the admins have put at the top page for not bashing the characters.

Well, aside that, it doesn't mean i disagree to all points, it does seems like an abusive case of this couple, though the way you state it is just as how a feminist would write. You don't like being called as feminist? Feminist has her own valid points, to which i do agree for some of them, but over-feminism is another story.

The best way to conclude why Sakura likes Sasuke till the very end is probably this: Stockholm Syndrome. Though Kishi didn't imply it.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Re: What type of message do you think the SS relationship sends?

That's exactly what I was thinking while watching the movie. I doubt sasuke would have had any sympathy..in fact I could only imagine him calling her annoying. At this point I'm sure he'd give anything to have family to complain about.

Wait, she cares more about Sasuke being suave than HER PARENTS BEING DEAD!?!? This girl has ****ing issues.

 

[salsalover64]

I don't even have to try harder since i'm not trolling you, nor to your thread, since your thread itself is trolling, despite the red warning the admins have put at the top page for not bashing the characters.

Just because you disagree with the premise behind a thread and the thread isn't glorifying a characters behavior or wanking them doesn't mean it's a trolling or bashing thread. In fact, it sounds like you missed the part in which I said the purpose of the thread is to analyze the message that the sakura/sasuke relationship sends to readers be it positive or negative. If you're salty because I started off by voicing my opinion then you shouldn't even participated in the thread if you have such a problem with it. That's a choice YOU made.

Well, aside that, it doesn't mean i disagree to all points, it does seems like an abusive case of this couple, though the way you state it is just as how a feminist would write. You don't like being called as feminist? Feminist has her own valid points, to which i do agree for some of them, but over-feminism is another story

.

No..I'm fine with being called a feminist. In fact before I edited out the post I even admitted that I am a feminist but you don't have to be a feminist to recognize a harmful relationship.

The best way to conclude why Sakura likes Sasuke till the very end is probably this: Stockholm Syndrome. Though Kishi didn't imply it.

Agreed.

 

[Ambivalence]

Re: What type of message do you think the SS relationship sends?

Wait, she cares more about Sasuke being suave than HER PARENTS BEING DEAD!?!? This girl has ****ing issues.

Bro... Sakura is indeed just another ruined female character, but Hinata stopped caring about Neji's death 2 minutes after it happened. Naruto-kun's ''big and manly hand'' was way more important than her cousin dying.

Sakura's still not as bad a character as Hinata.

 

[Darth Uchiha]

Re: What type of message do you think the SS relationship sends?

Bro... Sakura is indeed just another ruined female character, but Hinata stopped caring about Neji's death 2 minutes after it happened. Naruto-kun's ''big and manly hand'' was way more important than her cousin dying.

Sakura's still not as bad a character as Hinata.

To play Devil's advocate, imagine what Naruto can do with Shadow Clone No Jutsu.

 

[salsalover64]

Re: What type of message do you think the SS relationship sends?

To play Devil's advocate, imagine what Naruto can do with Shadow Clone No Jutsu.

I can only imagine hinata being too shy to even ask about that..and something tells me if it happened she'd have a heart attack. XD

 

[lndra]

lmao this thread is gold

 

[Brünhild]

With that reading comprehension Of course its a bad message .




Hurrduurr durr no really?! Never mind the fact that her reason for loving him was completely unfounded. Even when she was asked why she loves sasuke didn't give an answer. Also, I would consider it complete disregard of friends and family and a complete dismissal of the personal impact they have, I would also consider it a form of undermining her other relationships. It's one thing to miss someone and another to be willing to let the role a person plays in your life to cloud your judgement to the point where you can't be cognizant of the contributions other people make.





Doesn't change the fact that she threw her friends and family under the bus a second time in chapter 699 when he was leaving on his journey of atonement AFTER he had done all the things I mentioned and gave a half assed apology.





LOL itachi was an evil man??? Sasuke wasn't considered evil??? uh huh..and you wanna talk about my reading comprehension skills. Those in glass houses shouldn't cast stones. Sasuke explicitly stated "we won't be walking the same path..I'm an avenger", he was telling her he was choosing revenge over all his friends at that point the point of the scene was to convey was severing his ties with people who represented having bonds and anything positive associated with the village or team 7.



You're forgetting the part where all she could think about during the war was whether or not he noticed her, even after he explained he'd destroy her home, her friends, and family and mentor she healed him ..unaware that he had changed his mind meaning that at the time she didn't care about what his intentions were for her home or loved ones and even so..the fact is he put her in a genjutsu in which she experienced him killing her over and over and over again. There are plenty of other times she ignored what was really important to focus on sasuke as well.



Are you suggesting that people omit all of the negative aspects of this asspull of a relationship and cherry pick all of the positive aspects just to hope on the SS bandwagon, because it seems like you are. Most readers are smart enough to know that this is an unhealthy relationship with a codependent,insecure, shallow individual and that this type of mindset is psychologically deleterious, unhealthy, and abnormal. It's not normal or healthy to sustain interactions with an individual who has proven themselves capable of physical or mental abuse, apology or not. Forgiving someone doesn't mean you have to become romantically involved with them or even maintain a friendship with them. It's been explicitly stated before that sasuke is self centered to the point where he doesn't care if his choices or goals harm others. It's all about him. I like sasuke as a character./..BUT...this "Relationship" is similar to that of an abuser and a domestic violence victim. Where the person feels bound by obligation to remain with the abuser because they're so enamored by the thought of "saving" or defending the them. They accept the abuser's apology hoping they'll change and believing they can fix them and that no one else understands them. That's all I can see in this "relationship".



I'm aware of your preference for Sasusaku but the purpose of this post was to evaluate the message the "relationship" sends to readers and it seems like you're just letting your emotional attachment to the pairing cloud your judgement.

If SS relationship sends a a bad message to the readers, so SasuNaru relationship sends a bad message to the readers too, as well as the whole Naruto story, since it's a manga where 12 years old children play with kunais, go to war and are trained to be death machines.

And Sakura is not that defenseless "beated wife" as you depict her. Sasuke never physically injured Sakura. The time he tried to kill her he did it because she arrived there first with a poisoned kunai ready to stab him, so it's not like a beated wife that hopes for her husband to become a good person and tries to defend him even when he is wrong, because Sakura knew he was wrong and tried to put an end on this. She almost gave up on him. And when he was mean to her during the war arc and when he cast that genjutsu on her, it was because he wanted to push her away to accomplish his goal of making everyone hates him. He couldn't accept love in order to achieve his goal, and he was behaving like that to everybody.

You also say that forgivng someone doesn't mean that you have to become romantically involved or friend...but what do you have to say about SasuNaru relationship? I mean, Sasuke tried to kill Naruto at least 4 times, severaly injured him at the point Naruto was hospitalized, insulted him many times, then tried to kill him later... Naruto even lost an arm for his friend, but Sasuke never apologized. Since this is the main bond of the manga, what message do you think it sends to the readers? Well, in my point of view the SasuNaru and Sasusaku relationships fits perfectly in the main theme of Naruto: unbreakable bonds and never giving up on your beloved ones.

That's why I think it's pointless to depict SS as a real life relationship and try to see the message this relationship brings under a 'realistic' point of view, because Naruto is a story about ninjas, some things that happened along the story would be considered atrocities in real life, such as:

-friends fighting almost to death while declaring their eternal friendship.
- a young man who is forced to kill his entire clan and to mentally torture his little brother to keep him safe.
- children trained to be death machines
- instead of playing games, Kids play throwing kunais on each other.
- a boy who is forced to kill his own teammate with a chidori on her chest.

And the list goes on...

So, I suppose the whole story sends a bad message to the readers. SS is one of the less "bad messages" of this story. SasuNaru is 10 times worse in terms of ""abuse"" (I don't dislike it, in fact it's one of my favorite relationships of this manga) but no one bashes it the same way people bash SS. I guess because Sakura is a woman, so she is depicted as a "poor victim", when in fact she is not.


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[End of Days]

The message it tries to send is that hey girls don't walk away from guys who try to insult you, assault you, kill everyone you know and you yourself because remember he was less of a criminal when he was 12 year old so keep clinging onto him and maybe he will not end up killing you because someone else will stop him.

 

[the entire forum]

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[salsalover64]

If SS relationship sends a a bad message to the readers, so SasuNaru relationship sends a bad message to the readers too, as well as the whole Naruto story, since it's a manga where 12 years old children play with kunais, go to war and are trained to be death machines.

Actually considering the circumstances, naruto seeing sasuke as a brother despite his actions is pretty logical considering the fact that naruto never really grew up with a family. It makes sense that he would create a faux family within his social group to compensate for what he didn't have growing up. Sakura already has a family and friends and always had family and friends she had plenty of opportunities to acknowledge the role that others played in her life but she places so much emphasis on the impact sasuke has on her as a person that she's let her emotional attachment to him destroy relationships before. She also has no reason to feel the way she does about sasuke and when she was asked why she does she couldn't even give an answer. To the second part of your sentence you're just creating faulty analogies..in fact your entire first argument is a faulty analogy because you clearly omitted vital factors in both situations. Not only that, but the only thing the plot is indicative of is a time of war which creates an incentive to make the criteria for joining a militia system less restrictive.

And Sakura is not that defenseless "beated wife" as you depict her. Sasuke never physically injured Sakura. The time he tried to kill her he did it because she arrived there first with a poisoned kunai ready to stab him, so it's not like a beated wife that hopes for her husband to become a good person and tries to defend him even when he is wrong, because Sakura knew he was wrong and tried to put an end on this. She almost gave up on him. And when he was mean to her during the war arc and when he cast that genjutsu on her, it was because he wanted to push her away to accomplish his goal of making everyone hates him. He couldn't accept love in order to achieve his goal, and he was behaving like that to everybody.

It doesn't matter. That's indicative of a self-centered nature to the point where it's borderline narcissism. A lot of people have exaggerated perspectives of what narcissism is but the truth is the premise behind narcissism is placing such a heavy emphasis on personal perspective perspective that you don't understand the relationship between personal choices and the impact they have on other people to the point where it's deleterious. He showed signs of this type of behavior earlier on in the series and kishi even admitted it was the case in the most previous interview. You're limiting what I said to the husband/wife dynamic and because of that you're missing the point entirely. In relationships OF ANY FORM with narcissists/abusers they generally demonstrate behavior consistent with that of someone who is self centered, indifferent to the role of others and have the capacity to take advantage of the understanding and compassion that others express for the sake of keeping them around even if it means they tell the victim what they want to hear which is why they go through cycles of behavior. I have news for you..Sasuke was planning on killing her poison kunai or no. Hence his threat to "turn everyone's laughter into screams and moans of agony" if that isn't a death threat against naruto,sakura,kakashi and everyone in the village idk what is. Sakura went running back to him and playing lap dog at the first sign of any word than began with "sor.." she didn't wait for him to demonstrate different behavior. She may have tried to kill him on the outside but on the inside not only could she not do it and not want to do it but she did in fact believe he'd change..which is another behavior associated with victims of emotional, physical, or mental abuse. It's part of the beginning stages and why they go on keeping quiet as long as they do.

You also say that forgivng someone doesn't mean that you have to become romantically involved or friend...but what do you have to say about SasuNaru relationship? I mean, Sasuke tried to kill Naruto at least 4 times, severaly injured him at the point Naruto was hospitalized, insulted him many times, then tried to kill him later... Naruto even lost an arm for his friend, but Sasuke never apologized. Since this is the main bond of the manga, what message do you think it sends to the readers? Well, in my point of view the SasuNaru and Sasusaku relationships fits perfectly in the main theme of Naruto: unbreakable bonds and never giving up on your beloved ones.

I said the reasoning behind naruto's behavior was logical..I didn't say it was healthy. My point was that I can understand naruto's desperation to fill that void. However, the more extreme form of this is "well..you know..i know so and so treats me like shit and this relationship is harmful..but he/she can change...as long as I make him/her the center of my thoughts and life and reach out to him/her 24/7...". No. It isn't healthy. There's a difference between letting someone know that you value the role they play in your life and appreciating themf or who they are as a human being and purposefully putting yourself in a psychologically,physically, emotionally and developmentally unhealthy relationship in any context. And if you insist that it's A OK because of the anime then I'd really stop and evaluate your own criteria for a healthy relationship and how you allow people to treat you.

That's why I think it's pointless to depict SS as a real life relationship and try to see the message this relationship brings under a 'realistic' point of view, because Naruto is a story about ninjas, some things that happened along the story would be considered atrocities in real life, such as:

-friends fighting almost to death while declaring their eternal friendship. - a young man who is forced to kill his entire clan and to mentally torture his little brother to keep him safe.
- children trained to be death machines
- instead of playing games, Kids play throwing kunais on each other.
- a boy who is forced to kill his own teammate with a chidori on her chest.
And the list goes on...

So, I suppose the whole story sends a bad message to the readers. SS is one of the less "bad messages" of this story. SasuNaru is 10 times worse in terms of ""abuse"" (I don't dislike it, in fact it's one of my favorite relationships of this manga) but no one bashes it the same way people bash SS. I guess because Sakura is a woman, so she is depicted as a "poor victim", when in fact she is not.

Actually the purpose of folklore, stories,..movies..media PERIOD is to convey a message, concept, value, or belief associated with a culture. Without concepts to analyze this series wouldn't exist. Even the most simple stories like Dr.suess's stories have underlying themes and concepts associated with values and beliefs that are considered relevant in a culture. For example, the book about the star bellied sneetches is meant to be a more mild and censored way of teaching children about judgement in a way they can understand. If YOU choose to take everything literally there's nothing anyone can do about that but don't drag other people down with you by claiming there's nothing about the story to analyze because it simply isn't true. With that being said, it seems as though you missed the fact that the message behind the fight/bond between naruto and sasuke is as I said before..finding various methods in which to create bonds and relationships and ultimately recognizing that bonds and relationships are about the identifying the needs and thought process of another person and appreciating that without the promotion of a personal agenda. It's called genuine love and understanding. However, there's a chasm between genuine love and understanding and being willing to make a contribution to the life of another human being and doing it in the context of desperation, insecurity, shallowness, and disregard for personal safety. That's the main premise behind my argument.

 

[Koshej]

Just another point showing how ruined Sakura is.
Hinata loves Naruto for a whole LIST of reasons, which she herself states in the manga.
Sakura "loves" Sasuke just "because" - and she's not the only one to point that out.
SasuSaku is realistically idiotic in this aspect.

 

[King Of Pop]

on another angle, lets not treat sakura like one innocent defenseless girl. she was the one who went to were sasuke was in order to kill him, she tried to trick him in order for him to let hes guard down but it backfired. second time she was going to stab him with a poisoned kunai so sasuke defended himself like he should, or you want him to allow her kill him? shes not this innocent and defenseless little girl like people try to make her to be, she made a decision to kill sasuke, she put herself in danger by being there in the first place so lets not make it seem like sasuke is wrongly maltreating her esp when that whole incident was self inflicted. aside that i dont think i remember sasuke beating her or anything, perhaps this whole "abuse" of a thing is a bit exegerrated if you ask me.

 

[BLAZE]

on another angle, lets not treat sakura like one innocent defenseless girl. she was the one who went to were sasuke was in order to kill him, she tried to trick him in order for him to let hes guard down but it backfired. second time she was going to stab him with a poisoned kunai so sasuke defended himself like he should, or you want him to allow her kill him? shes not this innocent little girl like people try to make her to be, she made a decision to kill sasuke, she put herself in danger by being there in the first place so lets not make it seem like sasuke is wrongly maltreating her esp when that whole incident was self inflicted. aside that i dont think i remember sasuke beating her or anything, perhaps this whole "abuse" of a thing is a bit exegerrated if you ask me.

These guys reminds me of AHK's post
funny thing they bash NH

 

[King Of Pop]

These guys reminds me of AHK's post
funny thing they bash NH

lmao true, that guys posts certainly does ring a bell here. dunno just find it silly to be screaming "abuse" in a work centered around ninjas, kids who go on missions and encounter danger all the time, and its a bit exegerated to make it sound worse than it actually is

 

[BLAZE]

lmao true, that guys posts certainly does ring a bell here. dunno just find it silly to be screaming "abuse" in a work centered around ninjas, kids who go on missions and encounter danger all the time, and its a bit exegerated to make it sound worse than it actually is

Exactly
Funniest part Sasuke=Wife beater
No one cared about there family as much as Sasuke did in whole manga

 

[King Of Pop]

Exactly
Funniest part Sasuke=Wife beater
No one cared about there family as much as Sasuke did in whole manga

Now thats just very stupid, he went on a journey of atonement, even refused her when she asked to come with him due to she not having anything to do with his wrong doings, so why the hell would he now magically start beating her after all this? indeed, familial bonds are very important to sasuke, meh best ignore such posts