How do you know? Judging characters' strength before they do anything

[chaos control]

I see people saying stuff like how the Kara members are fodder compares to the akautski, and how even Hidan>>>> Jigen. Well I have some questions about this:

How the heck do you even know this? What are you even basing this on? Design?

We literally know nothing about the arsenals of most of the Kara members!

We have seen Jigen do two jutsu related things thus far. Those things are coordinating meeting via genjutsu and fixing (or creating) a table. Neither of these things were even in combat related scenarios, so I don't know how the heck you people would even be able to determine him to be fodder or strong. Heck, we don't even truly know what the latter technique really was (whether he reversed time, created a new table via some kind of reality manipulating power, used mokuton to create a new table, etc...)


As for the other Kara members:

We haven't seen Delta do a single thing! We haven't seen her fight. We haven't seen her use any jutsus. Etc... We have only ever seen her talk! How then would you know that she is either strong or weak?

As for the rest, we don't even have names for them, let alone abilities!

The only Kara member (not including Ao) that we have seen some actual combat from is Kashin Koji! Even then, he neg diffed Konohamaru without much effort, so it's not as if we've even seen the full extent of his power.


How then, do you people somehow know these Kara members to be weaker than the akautski?

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

Because if your name is not Kaguya Otsutsuki then you are not going to surpass Madara in his strongest form.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Because if your name is not Kaguya Otsutsuki then you are not going to surpass Madara in his strongest form.

Tauren please, even Kaguya was brought in so Madara doesn't neg Noodles and Sauce.

OT: quite easily featless characters vs those with feats. Konohamaru keeps getting negged while Boruto a genin keeps whooping ass doesn't help their prospects either.

 

[uhmusddy]

Kashin Koji > Konohamaru > Pein

what else is there to see

Kara solos

edit: but no the author confirmed through Sasuke that Kara is ootsusuki tier

 

[AllKnowingShinobi]

fooddder is used in a sense to cope with ones own ignorance and undying love for the old generation by adding handicap fiction to kara and basing it against wack off emo abilities that have been soloed or rendered worthless in the war arc like cmon.....did you guys not see the war arc the akautski in edo form still got smashed like wtf...?????

 

[Ansatsuken]

We called it foresight and NBers are good at it.

 

[NextGenNinja]

People are being bias, what else is new?

 

[chaos control]

Because if your name is not Kaguya Otsutsuki then you are not going to surpass Madara in his strongest form.

Your response really makes no sense as to how that translates to Kara automatically being weaker than akautski. For starters, Madara isn't even an akautski member technically.

Also, are you trying to insinuate that every akautski member is at the power level of Rikudou Madara? Just because none of the Kara members are likely to be juubi jinchuuriki level doesn't mean that they are weaker than the likes of Hidan and Kakazu.

Allow me to summarize the exchange between you and I:

Me: How do you know that the Kara members are weaker than all of the members of akautski (including weaker ones like Hidan and Sasori)?

You: Because they aren't stronger than Madara (who is one of the strongest characters in the manga, and whose strength has nothing to do with the strength of people like Deidara, Sasori, etc...)

Do you see how that doesn't make sense?

Tauren please, even Kaguya was brought in so Madara doesn't neg Noodles and Sauce.

OT: quite easily featless characters vs those with feats. Konohamaru keeps getting negged while Boruto a genin keeps whooping ass doesn't help their prospects either.

That's a terrible thought process. I take it that the option "unknown" is not an option for you? So to clarify:

If a character is new and has yet to have any fights, then do you consider it invalid to say that the character's power is unknown (rather than saying that they are weak)?

Does this thought process apply to other facets of life for you? For example, do you consider everyone that you have never met to be mentally retarded since they haven't had any interactions with you to show that they are actually mentally stable or intelligent?

Another example: Do you consider everyone that you've never seen cook to be incapable of cooking?

What I'm getting at is basically: Can you really not label someone as having an unknown level of skill in some area (whether that area be fighting, cooking, intelligence, etc...)?

Also, how does Konohamaru getting negged and Boruto kicking butt detract from Kara's prospects for being strong? Did Boruto kick KK's butt? No! Did he kick any other of the main Kara members' butts? No!

The only people that Boruto has beaten (post Momoshiki) are Shojoji (who isn't a Kara member) and Ao (who is merely an outer and an old man who can't even properly fight like he used to be able to, and who is most definitely not even close to being the strongest of Kara).

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

Your response really makes no sense as to how that translates to Kara automatically being weaker than akautski. For starters, Madara isn't even an akautski member technically.

Also, are you trying to insinuate that every akautski member is at the power level of Rikudou Madara? Just because none of the Kara members are likely to be juubi jinchuuriki level doesn't mean that they are weaker than the likes of Hidan and Kakazu.

Allow me to summarize the exchange between you and I:

Me: How do you know that the Kara members are weaker than all of the members of akautski (including weaker ones like Hidan and Sasori)?

You: Because they aren't stronger than Madara (who is one of the strongest characters in the manga, and whose strength has nothing to do with the strength of people like Deidara, Sasori, etc...)

Do you see how that doesn't make sense?




That's a terrible thought process. I take it that the option "unknown" is not an option for you? So to clarify:

If a character is new and has yet to have any fights, then do you consider it invalid to say that the character's power is unknown (rather than saying that they are weak)?

Does this thought process apply to other facets of life for you? For example, do you consider everyone that you have never met to be mentally retarded since they haven't had any interactions with you to show that they are actually mentally stable or intelligent?

Another example: Do you consider everyone that you've never seen cook to be incapable of cooking?

What I'm getting at is basically: Can you really not label someone as having an unknown level of skill in some area (whether that area be fighting, cooking, intelligence, etc...)?

Also, how does Konohamaru getting negged and Boruto kicking butt detract from Kara's prospects for being strong? Did Boruto kick KK's butt? No! Did he kick any other of the main Kara members' butts? No!

The only people that Boruto has beaten (post Momoshiki) are Shojoji (who isn't a Kara member) and Ao (who is merely an outer and an old man who can't even properly fight like he used to be able to, and who is most definitely not even close to being the strongest of Kara).

I was thinking you created this thread because Minamoto made one which said they are weaker than Madara , I agree to that because they won't reach same level Madara did.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Even Kashin Koji was showing Jiraiya base level techniques and as we all know that’s not enough for Akatsuki.
Maybe it’s karma that’s really Op and not the people

 

[minamoto]

Even Kashin Koji was showing Jiraiya base level techniques and as we all know that’s not enough for Akatsuki.
Maybe it’s karma that’s really Op and not the people

i know u r just trying to provoke memberz into new debates wit u...i can be ur guest if u want...

 

[minamoto]

]I see people saying stuff like how the Kara members are fodder compares to the akautski,[/SIZE] and how even Hidan>>>> Jigen. Well I have some questions about this:

How the heck do you even know this? What are you even basing this on? Design?

We literally know nothing about the arsenals of most of the Kara members!

We have seen Jigen do two jutsu related things thus far. Those things are coordinating meeting via genjutsu and fixing (or creating) a table. Neither of these things were even in combat related scenarios, so I don't know how the heck you people would even be able to determine him to be fodder or strong. Heck, we don't even truly know what the latter technique really was (whether he reversed time, created a new table via some kind of reality manipulating power, used mokuton to create a new table, etc...)


As for the other Kara members:

We haven't seen Delta do a single thing! We haven't seen her fight. We haven't seen her use any jutsus. Etc... We have only ever seen her talk! How then would you know that she is either strong or weak?

As for the rest, we don't even have names for them, let alone abilities!

The only Kara member (not including Ao) that we have seen some actual combat from is Kashin Koji! Even then, he neg diffed Konohamaru without much effort, so it's not as if we've even seen the full extent of his power.


How then, do you people somehow know these Kara members to be weaker than the akautski?

and who are those memberz may i know????..

 

[ThelUchiha]

Hidan is not stronger then Jigen or KK and you just used the weakest Akatsuki member but still i think he is capable of defeating Konohamaru. About the rest, we didnt see much but Pain > Jigen for sure

 

[minamoto]

Because if your name is not Kaguya Otsutsuki then you are not going to surpass Madara in his strongest form.

Tauren please, even Kaguya was brought in so Madara doesn't neg Noodles and Sauce.

OT: quite easily featless characters vs those with feats. Konohamaru keeps getting negged while Boruto a genin keeps whooping ass doesn't help their prospects either.

so u r saying a lady with long skirt..is stronger then madara uchiha???..

 

[salamander uchiha]

so u r saying a lady with long skirt..is stronger then madara uchiha???..

I is saying lady with long robe is teh beatable fodder they brought in because Madara sama would've eaten Noodles with Sauce.

 

[minamoto]

I is saying lady with long robe is teh beatable fodder they brought in because Madara sama would've eaten Noodles with Sauce.

teh only one who surpasses madara is hago...if black zetsu didn't betray madara,madara was going to surpass hago..

 

[chaos control]

Hidan is not stronger then Jigen or KK and you just used the weakest Akatsuki member but still i think he is capable of defeating Konohamaru. About the rest, we didnt see much but Pain > Jigen for sure

@Bold: This is precisely what I am getting at. How are you so sure that Pain > Jigen when we haven't seen Jigen fight and when we don't know what he can do?

We don't even truly know the deal behind the whole table incident (did he reverse time, did he create a new table via creation of all things, did he use mokuton, etc...?)

 

[chaos control]

Even Kashin Koji was showing Jiraiya base level techniques and as we all know that’s not enough for Akatsuki.
Maybe it’s karma that’s really Op and not the people

Did KK even look to be going all out from what he showed? Was he even sweating after that little scuffle against Konohamaru? That's one of the problems with people. People see little entry level tastes of a new character's power (stuff like fixing a table or neg diffing Konohamaru) and then assume that the little taste is the maximum extent of the character's power, even though 9 times out of 10 the character isn't even trying or in some cases the character isn't even in a fight (ie. Jigen eating a meal).

 

[ThelUchiha]

@Bold: This is precisely what I am getting at. How are you so sure that Pain > Jigen when we haven't seen Jigen fight and when we don't know what he can do?

We don't even truly know the deal behind the whole table incident (did he reverse time, did he create a new table via creation of all things, did he use mokuton, etc...?)

We dont.... so far we dont know anything what they can do and how strong they really are. But logically Pain had Rinnegan the most powerful dojutsu in NV and only that should be enough to tell the difference.

 

[chaos control]

We dont.... so far we dont know anything what they can do and how strong they really are. But logically Pain had Rinnegan the most powerful dojutsu in NV and only that should be enough to tell the difference.

A borrowed rinnegan doesn't make you unbeatable though. Therefore, that rinnegan alone should not be enough to tell the difference. Heck, a decent sage mode user could beat Pain. EMS Sasuke and Madara could beat Pain. Obito could beat him. BM Naruto could beat him. Etc... Pain was high tier definitely, but he was not infallible. He certainly had his weaknesses, and for all we know, Jigen may have the techniques necessary to beat him.