How come Kakashi and Tobi don't go blind for over using their mangekyou Sharingan?

[Owarij]

There is nothing kisame said that could possibly lead Kakashi to know ms = blindness..

The first thing anyone will think about is that using the eyes puts strain on the body/ eyes..
THAT'S what kakashi figured out..

he even told itachi that he knows he can't use tsukyomi alot , as he retreated afterwards
And Itachi praised him for being analytical..
So that my friend is what conclusion kakashi came to

You think he just randomly activated it one day and figured out he could warp things to another dimension?

Like when tobi got his ms? you think he knew how to use it or what his ability was?

You think shishui knew?

When you get your ms abilities, the theme is that natural INSTINCT guides it... Kakashi could have simply been training, or on a mission when it activated..

going to tell me he was experiencing blindness then, but it hasn't worsened in the 10+ times he's used it since?

Wait wait.... You think using your ms 10 times alone makes you go fully blind? Itachi had his ms for what? 8 years... Kisame has seen his abilities multiple times.. deidara has seen it... Danzo has seen it.. he used one on kakashi... amaterasu on a Gate.. tsukyomi on sasuke.. tsukyomi on sasuke as a child..

Be real..Even if Kakashi is going blind, it will be MILD but still enough to notice


And who said he isn't losing sight?, ..that's the entire point of the argument... no doubt what so ever that he's losing it.. but he wont lose it anytime soon, as he hasn't used it like 100 times

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

Obito doesent go blind because he said so.

 

[EliteKakashi]

There is nothing kisame said that could possibly lead Kakashi to know ms = blindness..

It could only mean a certain number of things. And given the sharingan effects the eyes, it wouldn't be too hard to deduce. The eye is dangerous to Itachi. Kakashi learned of Amaterasu, Susanoo, and was relatively close with Jiraiya, and as you stated, was also in ANBU. I'm not making my argument(hell, I'm not even arguing he's going blind, per say, I'm just saying we've been given no hint other than 1 statement he made to Itachi) off these scans alone, but deducing what using the eye so many times can mean can't be that hard for two geniuses like Jiraiya and Kakashi. Especially not with what Jiraiya knows.

The first thing anyone will think about is that using the eyes puts strain on the body/ eyes..
THAT'S what kakashi figured out..

he even told itachi that he knows he can't use tsukyomi alot , as he retreated afterwards
And Itachi praised him for being analytical..
So that my friend is what conclusion kakashi came to

Yes, puts a strain on the body/eyes. But again, not really even something I'm "banking" on.

Like when tobi got his ms? you think he knew how to use it or what his ability was?

You think shishui knew?

When you get your ms abilities, the theme is that natural INSTINCT guides it... Kakashi could have simply been training, or on a mission when it activated..

Obito was being mentored by Madara.

Shisui had the entire uchiha clan to explain to him what happens.

Kakashi had...not a single person with knowledge on the mangekyo, how it's activated, etc. Kakashi first "activated" it when he was a kid, but just didn't know it. I don't see him having another "traumatic experience" to activate again, given it was already activated once before.

Wait wait.... You think using your ms 10 times alone makes you go fully blind? Itachi had his ms for what? 8 years... Kisame has seen his abilities multiple times.. deidara has seen it... Danzo has seen it.. he used one on kakashi... amaterasu on a Gate.. tsukyomi on sasuke.. tsukyomi on sasuke as a child..

Be real..Even if Kakashi is going blind, it will be MILD but still enough to notice

Do you not remember how quickly Sasuke went blind? A lot faster than Kakashi did, and not as many "uses" of it's abilities if I recall. Maybe you can make the argument that amaterasu and susanoo take a bigger toll on the eyes than Kamui, but that would be pure speculation.

And who said he isn't losing sight?, ..that's the entire point of the argument... no doubt what so ever that he's losing it.. but he wont lose it anytime soon, as he hasn't used it like 100 times[/COLOR]

No one's said he isn't losing it. I'm just not convinced one way or the other.

As I stated, he obviously hadn't used it very much at all before fighting Deidara. We can safely assume that because it wasn't too long after that he was confident he could have warped Kakuzu away before he obliterated him, Ino and Chouji. So it didn't take him very long at all to get to a point where he felt he could warp someone, where as he had no confidence in his ability to use it against Deidara. So, lets go off what you're saying in that he's only "mildly" going blind after using it 10 times..how could he, in the quite obviously very few times he used it prior to meeting Itachi, noticed any blindness at all?

Going off of Itachi's statement:

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He should be noticing it a good bit more than what he's had, if he's had it at all. It begins without even using it, and using it speeds up the process..yet, we've gotten no indication that his eyesight with the sharingan has decreased at all. He was one of the biggest reasons the edo 7 swordsmen were defeated, and it's obvious he would need his sharingan to help predict their superb kenjutsu skills.

If he's going blind, he's somehow not showing it/his fighting abilities haven't suffered in the slightest.

 

[Owarij]

Do you not remember how quickly Sasuke went blind? A lot faster than Kakashi did, and not as many "uses" of it's abilities if I recall. Maybe you can make the argument that amaterasu and susanoo take a bigger toll on the eyes than Kamui, but that would be pure speculation.

even tobi noted, that sasuke was using his ms abilities in sucession and also having susanno up while casting amaterasu etc.. which was why it faded away that fast

Obito was being mentored by Madara.

Shisui had the entire uchiha clan to explain to him what happens.

Kakashi had...not a single person with knowledge on the mangekyo, how it's activated, etc. Kakashi first "activated" it when he was a kid, but just didn't know it. I don't see him having another "traumatic experience" to activate again, given it was already activated once before.

As far as we know Madara taught obito nothing about ms.. obito was still RELUCTANT... this was before he witnessed rin's death.. it was only after that he went back and really became madara's student..

Obito still activated the ability in the midst of battle without even knowing.. just like kakashi... and in the midst of rage he was slipping through enemy attacks..... As I said.. Ms use = INSTINCT..

Madara and izuna were the first ms users.. who do you think taught them? Just like kakashi there was Noone what so ever..

We have that 1 scan along with the databook.. Though you seem not to care what it has to say..
The only thing the databook has that should be considered with care is Really the hyperboles
Aka - amaterasu being as hot as the sun etc...


I don't see why kishi would put that kakashi will go blind from use of the ms for no reason

 

[Owarij]

Do you not remember how quickly Sasuke went blind? A lot faster than Kakashi did, and not as many "uses" of it's abilities if I recall. Maybe you can make the argument that amaterasu and susanoo take a bigger toll on the eyes than Kamui, but that would be pure speculation.

even tobi noted, that sasuke was using his ms abilities in sucession and also having susanno up while casting amaterasu etc.. which was why it faded away that fast

Obito was being mentored by Madara.

Shisui had the entire uchiha clan to explain to him what happens.

Kakashi had...not a single person with knowledge on the mangekyo, how it's activated, etc. Kakashi first "activated" it when he was a kid, but just didn't know it. I don't see him having another "traumatic experience" to activate again, given it was already activated once before.

As far as we know Madara taught obito nothing about ms.. obito was still RELUCTANT... this was before he witnessed rin's death.. it was only after that he went back and really became madara's student..

Obito still activated the ability in the midst of battle without even knowing.. just like kakashi... and in the midst of rage he was slipping through enemy attacks..... As I said.. Ms use = INSTINCT..

Madara and izuna were the first ms users.. who do you think taught them? Just like kakashi there was Noone what so ever..

We have that 1 scan along with the databook.. Though you seem not to care what it has to say..
The only thing the databook has that should be considered with care is Really the hyperboles
Aka - amaterasu being as hot as the sun etc...


I don't see why kishi would put that kakashi will go blind from use of the ms for no reason

 

[EliteKakashi]

even tobi noted, that sasuke was using his ms abilities in sucession and also having susanno up while casting amaterasu etc.. which was why it faded away that fast



As far as we know Madara taught obito nothing about ms.. obito was still RELUCTANT... this was before he witnessed rin's death.. it was only after that he went back and really became madara's student..

Obito still activated the ability in the midst of battle without even knowing.. just like kakashi... and in the midst of rage he was slipping through enemy attacks..... As I said.. Ms use = INSTINCT..

Madara and izuna were the first ms users.. who do you think taught them? Just like kakashi there was Noone what so ever..

We have that 1 scan along with the databook.. Though you seem not to care what it has to say..
The only thing the databook has that should be considered with care is Really the hyperboles
Aka - amaterasu being as hot as the sun etc...


I don't see why kishi would put that kakashi will go blind from use of the ms for no reason

But there has to be some point that Kakashi's skills would deteriorate, right? At some point he would note it? He's improved his abilities, they haven't gotten worse. Even just "mild" blindness would effect him. The sharingan is the entire reason that he's such a balanced fighter. It makes absolutely no sense. I'm not arguing he shouldn't be going blind, I'm just saying there's absolutely nothing that shows he is.

The difference between Obito's activation and his is that Kakashi passed out, Obito didn't. Obito also had Zetsu with him. You said it yourself he used it in a blind rage. It would also explain Madara and Izuna. They probably didn't pass out when they awakened theirs. Kakashi likely passed out, not just from having battled, but due to his body not even being fit for the regular sharingan at the time, much less the mangekyo. He didn't get to experience it when he activated it. He had no knowledge of having it. He was faced with several potential life or death situations in part one(Zabuza, Orochimaru, Itachi), yet never tried it. And in the case of Zabuza and Orochimaru, he was protecting people who he felt(and in Orochimaru's case, couldn't) protect themselves. You could even make that argument for the Itachi situation as well, as he stated himself only a sharingan user could battle another, and they(Asuma and Kurenai) were completely vulnerable.

I care about what it has to say. I'm just saying it doesn't match up with what Kakashi has shown.

I don't see why Kishi would do it, either. But there's a lot of things Kishi has done that make absolutely no sense.

 

[Owarij]

What does zetsu have to do with obito's ms ? He was in control.. and though he never used a ms in his life, he was operating his ability..

It's even hinted he may have activated it in his near death experience when the rock fell on him...Madara found him in his cave on the floor... and said it seems like you "slipped through the earth" or something. and landed here. he didn't even know that he has a tangibility ms..

Once again, Instinct drives ms abilities.. Knowing you unlocked it has nothing to do with it.. You think obito knew he unlocked it? You can't tell that your eyes have changed... Sasuke didn;t realize he unlocked sharingan the massacre night.. it just happened and he used it due to instinct

As I said, why would kakashi complain? if it is deterorating, a little blindness isn't enough to greatly affect combat.. Itachi still sparred with kurenai/kakashi etc perfectly... Not to mention kakashi has One perfectly working eye... why would he be complaining?

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Kakashi rarely uses it

Obito has Hahirama cells.

 

[EliteKakashi]

What does zetsu have to do with obito's ms ? He was in control.. and though he never used a ms in his life, he was operating his ability..

It's even hinted he may have activated it in his near death experience when the rock fell on him...Madara found him in his cave on the floor... and said it seems like you "slipped through the earth" or something. and landed here. he didn't even know that he has a tangibility ms..

Once again, Instinct drives ms abilities.. Knowing you unlocked it has nothing to do with it.. You think obito knew he unlocked it? You can't tell that your eyes have changed... Sasuke didn;t realize he unlocked sharingan the massacre night.. it just happened and he used it due to instinct

As I said, why would kakashi complain? if it is deterorating, a little blindness isn't enough to greatly affect combat.. Itachi still sparred with kurenai/kakashi etc perfectly... Not to mention kakashi has One perfectly working eye... why would he be complaining?

It was just mentioning he had someone attached to him that had knowledge of the mangekyo, and did have the ability to help him, but that's irrelevant.

Yes, instinct drives it, but what could have happened that didn't happen against Zabuza, Orochimaru or Itachi that would have drove his "instincts" to using the mangekyo? He told team 7 and Tazuna to run because, in his words, "this fight was over when I was captured". Zabuza wasn't going to let them run and tried to kill them. He had a passed out Sasuke behind him and Orochimaru approaching him. He tried to act tough in front of Oro, but stated afterwards he knew he stood no chance. Against Itachi, Asuma and Kurenai were completely vulnerable to getting attacked by either Itachi or Kisame. Kakashi had trouble just keeping up with Itachi, he knew he couldn't take both him and Kisame.


And his "one working eye" is no where near as useful as the sharingan. It doesn't give him the same abilities. He's relied on the sharingan for the past 20 years of his life. It's starting to be taken away, for lack of better words, and it doesn't effect him? This isn't the demon brothers he's been fighting in shippuden. He's fought purely Akatsuki. Not to mention, without his sharingan working correctly, he cannot use Raikiri/Chidori.

We have no idea to the extent of which Itachi used his abilities prior to fighting Kakashi/Kurenai/Asuma. We can't really judge his deterioration. We have ways of judging Kakashi's, because we've seen every in battle use of it.

We know of the 3 vs Deidara, 2 vs Deva Path, and going back and counting, 1 gedo mazou, 1 raikiri kunai, 1 naruto rasengan, 1 Naruto's entire body, 1 gyuki, 2 warping himself back from Obito's dimension, so 7 times vs Obito, 12 in total. You made remark of how Obito mentioned Sasuke went blind because of excessive use..using it 7 times sounds pretty excessive to me. It would also be safe to assume he trained himself to use it given his rapid improvement with it. Can't put a number on the amount of times he used it, but I would imagine a few.

Why wouldn't Kakashi complain? Itachi complained. Madara complained. And assuming that Kakashi was noticing blindness, he complained against Itachi. Why never make mention of it again? And I've already explained numerous times how his "one working eye" makes no difference in fighting for him. He keeps it closed the majority of the time when fighting anyway. It holds none of the abilities his sharingan gives him. And given he's relied on it for the past 20 years, and is the only way he's capable of using his greatest(not counting kamui) technique in raikiri. His sharingan has to be working clearly for that technique to work.

I hate debating this point, cause I really don't even disagree with you about what should be happening. It's just it doesn't appear to be happening, and I'm telling you that's why some(including me) have started to doubt whether he can go blind/is going blind.

Also, while instincts drive the activation/use of the mangekyo, it's also(as we well know) able to activate by simply knowing you have it. Which is why I brought up that maybe Kakashi learned how it was activated(trauma), realized that he might have it, and tried to experiment in activating it. I'm not banking on that idea per say, but saying his instincts triggered it in a separate situation is equally as questionable when he had those situations in part one that should for all intents and purposes activated it.

 

[Redhothabanero]

Kakashi isnt a uchiha...he wont go blind..

 

[Stark]

Obito has Senju DNA altering any side effects of anything such as Kotoamatsuki and MS over use, Kakashi it's because he isn't a Uchiha

 

[TheCCV]

It takes more than using it 1 heavy time to go blind, I think Sasuke used it quite a few times before losing his sight. Plus, along with recieving Kyuubi chakra, he probably got healed and his eyes recovered after every time.