How can any new jutsu or power not be a butt pull? Is it even possible with you?

Shadow Phantasm

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
11,503
Reaction score
568
Obito also took Rikudou Senjutsu from Madara. Fact.



So you're going with speculation? Cool. He was also checking on his puppet master seal, which was in Obito's heart.

Not speculation,the evidence is there you just have to connect the dots.In both instances Obito had his hand in Madara's chest that allowed him to steal a portion of his chakra along with the missing bijuu chakra for Naruto.It makes sense that Madara would do the same thing.
 

Umari Senju

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
12,535
Reaction score
1,192
This. People suddenly forgot that Characters nearly always had to work their techniques into perfection, not gain IMMEDIATE control and mastery over techniques in a matter of 15 seconds.... All that spewing about hard work = results at this point that the Manga has been trying to portray through Naruto's hard work, Lee and Guy's character, even Sakura's hard years of training with Tsunade was all for naught with the introduction of COMPLETELY FREE POWER UPS WITH NO COSTS.


You must be registered for see images

Yup yup. You and CFighter need +reps for this :win:
 

Koha

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
1,672
Reaction score
124
It is a fictional world. You are treating it too much like the real world. If an explanation is given in a fictional world, then it makes sense period! (Especially if it doesn't contradict anything). You people need to learn that fiction is like a dream, anything can happen!



So DBZ is the only series allowed to have strong characters now? Not everybody wants to just see weaklings play with knives! I might as well watch Blues Clues if it is going to be that way!



This is nowhere near a valid argument! First of all, there is no such thing as a perfect technique because every jutsu has a weakness! Second, different things take different times to master. Therefore some stuff is just a matter of thinking things up on the fly while others require years of hard work! How hard does it look to combine kamui and raikiri, two jutsus that Kakashi already had in the first place?! It is not rocket science, so it shouldn't take years! You people should stop acting like every little thing takes years to master!

For goodness sake, are you going to say that making a ham sandwich should take years next?

Finally, they don't have years to train. Kaguya came now! Villains aren't just going to say "I will let you train for some years to defeat me".

Nope, I'm not saying that the characters don't have to be strong.. But please, STAY IN LINE towards what you've been portraying for the past 1,000+ Chapters and episodes that's been shown.. Now everyone's suddenly turned into Gods.. And Excuse me for actually liking battles to be more about Strategy than Raw Power... Like DBZ. It's a favorite of mine, but it's works for Aliens with planet destruction potential... Not a whole bunch of Ninja.
 

Umari Senju

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
12,535
Reaction score
1,192
It is a fictional world. You are treating it too much like the real world. If an explanation is given in a fictional world, then it makes sense period! (Especially if it doesn't contradict anything). You people need to learn that fiction is like a dream, anything can happen!



So DBZ is the only series allowed to have strong characters now? Not everybody wants to just see weaklings play with knives! I might as well watch Blues Clues if it is going to be that way!



This is nowhere near a valid argument! First of all, there is no such thing as a perfect technique because every jutsu has a weakness! Second, different things take different times to master. Therefore some stuff is just a matter of thinking things up on the fly while others require years of hard work! How hard does it look to combine kamui and raikiri, two jutsus that Kakashi already had in the first place?! It is not rocket science, so it shouldn't take years! You people should stop acting like every little thing takes years to master!

For goodness sake, are you going to say that making a ham sandwich should take years next?

Finally, they don't have years to train. Kaguya came now! Villains aren't just going to say "I will let you train for some years to defeat me".

@Bold: That is the entire point of everyones anger. This fictional world is still guided by a set of strict fictional rules. These rules guided life and death of these fictional characters throughout the entire series. Then they were suddenly thrown out the window for the sake of plot and the explanations given were half contrived. This is where the a**pulls come in and everyone's anger toward them.
 

Titania Erza

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
3,726
Reaction score
690
Nice points... not. Kishi just wanted that Naruto would win in a versus thread against Goku, so he created a villain which Naruto couldnt beat without insane power-ups.

And your explainations are wrong. Obito got the So6P powers, because he was the host of the buuji.

And as for Obito's chakra travelling to Kakashi's mind because chakra connects between world is bullsh*t. With that kind of reasoning Dan could have easily staid in the living world with his Spirit transformation technique.
 

Bling Kai

Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
Elite
Joined
Apr 5, 2014
Messages
7,019
Reaction score
650
I'm suprised at how often DBZ keeps getting brought up in this thread when the thread Is about NARUTO people just can't stop comparing these two series not just when the comparisons are very nonsimilar (which is something I see happen a lot on this place) but also when the comparisons are completely unnecessary.
 
Last edited:

V h o

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
16,796
Reaction score
815
I don't really get how Obito had the sage's power though. I assumed it was because he was a juubi jin, not that Naruto healed him.
 

Umari Senju

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
12,535
Reaction score
1,192
Nice points... not. Kishi just wanted that Naruto would win in a versus thread against Goku, so he created a villain which Naruto couldnt beat without insane power-ups.

And your explainations are wrong. Obito got the So6P powers, because he was the host of the buuji.

And as for Obito's chakra travelling to Kakashi's mind because chakra connects between world is bullsh*t. With that kind of reasoning Dan could have easily staid in the living world with his Spirit transformation technique.

So true XD

I'm suprised at how often DBZ keeps getting brought up in this thread when the thread Is about NARUTO people just can't stop comparing these two series not just when the comparisons are very nonsimilar (which is something I see happen a lot on this place) but also when the comparisons are completely unnecessary.

Says the guy withe Vegeto Ava XD! I jest. But seriously, I try to leav DBZ out of this but I do kind of understand the comparison somewhat.

I don't really get how Obito had the sage's power though. I assumed it was because he was a juubi jin, not that Naruto healed him.

This was my guess too. I mean after he lost the bijuu he still had enough rikudo juice to create a sun staff and steal the Kyuubi back from Madara to give to Naruto. Now this speculation (and that's all it is, speculation) that he stole it from Madara or got it back from Naruto is still BS. There was no proof that Naruto's healing gave him rikudo power again.

If that were true then Gai should be fully healed and back in action with Rikudo juice as well. After all Naruto healed his heart too. So shouldn't he have the ability to heal those death wounds and fight again?

See? So many conundrums created for the sake of plot.
 
Last edited:

Koha

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
1,672
Reaction score
124
I'm suprised at how often DBZ keeps getting brought up in this thread when the thread Is about NARUTO people just can't stop comparing these two series not just when the comparisons are very nonsimilar (which is something I see happen a lot on this place) but also when the comparisons are completely unnecessary.

There's an extreme amount of similarities now. Characters now have the ability to completely bend the world to their will, Power Levels are completely off the charts to the point now in their world just like the Saiyans they're considered Gods, the battles are now less inclined to strategic thinking, just an insane amount of power ups and Raw Power to overwhelm the enemy Which is what Naruto has never been about since it's inception. Yeah, there's still fundamental differences, but it's slowly but surely closing the gap between those differences.

Honestly, do you even think that they're Shinobi while you're currently watching them battle?????
And for anyone who would jump into the Manga right now at where we're at, do you think that they think this Manga is about Ninja?
 
Last edited:

Sir Cool Blizzard

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Veteran
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
2,487
Reaction score
235
Nope, I'm not saying that the characters don't have to be strong.. But please, STAY IN LINE towards what you've been portraying for the past 1,000+ Chapters and episodes that's been shown.. Now everyone's suddenly turned into Gods.. And Excuse me for actually liking battles to be more about Strategy than Raw Power... Like DBZ. It's a favorite of mine, but it's works for Aliens with planet destruction potential... Not a whole bunch of Ninja.

They were never ninjas to begin with......Kishi's original intention was to write a manga about Kurama. He thought about the concept of Ninjas later and redefined the term ninja!! U_U
OT: I will give Kishi time for his explanations......U_U
 

chaos control

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Messages
4,586
Reaction score
433
Nope, I'm not saying that the characters don't have to be strong.. But please, STAY IN LINE towards what you've been portraying for the past 1,000+ Chapters and episodes that's been shown.. Now everyone's suddenly turned into Gods.. And Excuse me for actually liking battles to be more about Strategy than Raw Power... Like DBZ. It's a favorite of mine, but it's works for Aliens with planet destruction potential... Not a whole bunch of Ninja.

This manga has plenty of strategy even now! People are just too freaking stupid to see it! Even in this chapter alone, Naruto used Kakashi's diversion to take the opportunity to transform into Sasuke and fool Kaguya. Naruto also used strategy when he barraged Kaguya with clones in order to get Kaguya to open the portal so that Obito could get through and go to save Sasuke. He also used strategy when he intentionally made it look as if he had been trapped by Kaguya's attack in order to draw Kaguya in close to him and then unleash his attack!

Does this not register to you?! All of this is what is known as strategy!! Yet you people ignore it and then falsely complain that there is no strategy!

@Bold: That is the entire point of everyones anger. This fictional world is still guided by a set of strict fictional rules. These rules guided life and death of these fictional characters throughout the entire series. Then they were suddenly thrown out the window for the sake of plot and the explanations given were half contrived. This is where the a**pulls come in and everyone's anger toward them.

Nothing is contradicted! When did Kishi say anything that contradicted Obito's actions for instance? Never did he say something like that!! It is just you people getting mad because you did not see it coming.
 

V h o

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
16,796
Reaction score
815
This was my guess too. I mean after he lost the bijuu he still had enough rikudo juice to create a sun staff and steal the Kyuubi back from Madara to give to Naruto. Now this speculation (and that's all it is, speculation) that he stole it from Madara or got it back from Naruto is still BS. There was no proof that Naruto's healing gave him rikudo power again.

If that were true then Gai should be fully healed and back in action with Rikudo juice as well. After all Naruto healed his heart too. So shouldn't he have the ability to heal those death wounds and fight again?

See? So many conundrums created for the sake of plot.

After looking further into it, Obito Madara's rikudo chakra when he got the bijuu for Naruto.
 

Shadow Phantasm

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
11,503
Reaction score
568
This manga has plenty of strategy even now! People are just too freaking stupid to see it! Even in this chapter alone, Naruto used Kakashi's diversion to take the opportunity to transform into Sasuke and fool Kaguya. Naruto also used strategy when he barraged Kaguya with clones in order to get Kaguya to open the portal so that Obito could get through and go to save Sasuke. He also used strategy when he intentionally made it look as if he had been trapped by Kaguya's attack in order to draw Kaguya in close to him and then unleash his attack!

Does this not register to you?! All of this is what is known as strategy!! Yet you people ignore it and then falsely complain that there is no strategy!



Nothing is contradicted! When did Kishi say anything that contradicted Obito's actions for instance? Never did he say something like that!! It is just you people getting mad because you did not see it coming.

I think you're getting way too angry about this.
 

chaos control

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Messages
4,586
Reaction score
433
They were never ninjas to begin with......Kishi's original intention was to write a manga about Kurama. He thought about the concept of Ninjas later and redefined the term ninja!! U_U
OT: I will give Kishi time for his explanations......U_U

Thank you! People need to stop going by the real world image of ninjas and remember that this is fictional! Nobody complains about other mangas not using real world definitions! In one piece they are pirates. Last time I checked, real pirates never had stretchy powers and ate devil fruits, but does anybody complain about that? No!
 

Koha

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
1,672
Reaction score
124
They were never ninjas to begin with......Kishi's original intention was to write a manga about Kurama. He thought about the concept of Ninjas later and redefined the term ninja!! U_U
OT: I will give Kishi time for his explanations......U_U

Haha you learn something new everyday. And he definitely redefined Ninja xD
 

Umari Senju

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
12,535
Reaction score
1,192
This manga has plenty of strategy even now! People are just too freaking stupid to see it! Even in this chapter alone, Naruto used Kakashi's diversion to take the opportunity to transform into Sasuke and fool Kaguya. Naruto also used strategy when he barraged Kaguya with clones in order to get Kaguya to open the portal so that Obito could get through and go to save Sasuke. He also used strategy when he intentionally made it look as if he had been trapped by Kaguya's attack in order to draw Kaguya in close to him and then unleash his attack!

Does this not register to you?! All of this is what is known as strategy!! Yet you people ignore it and then falsely complain that there is no strategy!



Nothing is contradicted! When did Kishi say anything that contradicted Obito's actions for instance? Never did he say something like that!! It is just you people getting mad because you did not see it coming.

Kakashi during chuunin exam: WHen your chakra reaches 0, you die! This happended to Obito twice over.- Contridiction

Nagato-Rinne Tensei is a technique that allows me to ressurrect those who have died at the cost of my own life. -Obito was forced to use Rinne Tensei to revive Madara. Didn't die. - Contridiction

Black Zetsu took over Obito's body- Obito should have already been dead but Zetsu was keeping him alive. Fine-After Zetsu left a lifless body brought back to life by Naruto- Contridiction

Maito Gai- Using the 8th gate allows you to achieve power great than a Kage. Afterwards, you die. This looked like this was about to happen then Narujesus did his finger thing. No death.

Obito's body was turned to cinder by Kaguya's Bone attack- Phoenix Obito rose from the ashes to magically bestow both Sharingan to Kakashi whose body could barely even handle 1 MS So if he could do this, why couldn't Dan do it with Tsunade?-Contridiction

Dude this manga is full of contridictions. See the trend here? Thins that were stated forever in the Manga as law or rules of life and death suddenly could be bypassed as long as you have Rikudo power?

That's not very consistant.
 
Last edited:

V h o

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
16,796
Reaction score
815
Thank you! People need to stop going by the real world image of ninjas and remember that this is fictional! Nobody complains about other mangas not using real world definitions! In one piece they are pirates. Last time I checked, real pirates never had stretchy powers and ate devil fruits, but does anybody complain about that? No!

Probably because the other series don't even try to use real world logic to justify a lot of their points, Kishi attempts to at certain times (yin seal's healing as an example imo.) Although I do get what your saying about using real world logic in a series where people can breath fire and summon/create things from thin air.
 

Cfighter

Anbu Operative 🎭
Veteran
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Messages
4,514
Reaction score
501
This is nowhere near a valid argument! First of all, there is no such thing as a perfect technique because every jutsu has a weakness! Second, different things take different times to master. Therefore some stuff is just a matter of thinking things up on the fly while others require years of hard work! How hard does it look to combine kamui and raikiri, two jutsus that Kakashi already had in the first place?! It is not rocket science, so it shouldn't take years! You people should stop acting like every little thing takes years to master!

For goodness sake, are you going to say that making a ham sandwich should take years next?

Finally, they don't have years to train. Kaguya came now! Villains aren't just going to say "I will let you train for some years to defeat me".

The only thing that is nowhere near valid is your own argument. When I said "the manga has established that you need to work to perfect a technique", I didn't think there was any room for confusion on what I meant. This manga has made it fact from chapter 1 that in order to do ANYTHING JUTSU RELATED you need to practice it. I did not mean that any jutsu shown is perfect. No jutsu is perfect.

Different things may take shorter or longer times to master than others, but that does not mean by any stretch of the phrase that you can master a jutsu the first time you do it. Minato took [I believe it was] 3 years to "master" the Rasengan. Naruto took 3 days, and then 3 years beyond that to evolve the Rasengan even further. Not even Sasuke, a prodigy with the Sharingan, can learn something that quickly. He learned the Chidori from Kakashi, but it took him 3 years to master it the way he does now. How hard does it look to combine Kamui and Raikiri? It looks impossible to me, considering Kamui is Space/Time tech and Raikiri is chakra manipulation. Naruto had to train his ass off to learn the basic form of the RasenShuriken, which is the same learning curve as what is needed to pull off a "Kamui Raikiri". A learning curve I'd like to add that Kakashi himself admitted he could never do [which just adds to the ass pull list, by the way].

Your logic about Kaguya also makes no sense at all. You're confusing plot progression with story creation. When you tell a story, theres an unwritten rule about the story teller making sure to follow any rules that HE/SHE CREATES ABOUT HIS OWN STORY. Breaking this unspoken rule has a term of its own: its called a plothole. The term that people have adopted for this particular story has the same effect, but a different name: its called an ass pull. Kishi created a rule that says, "characters must work to achieve something". That rule was more like a theme, as that was what Naruto was all about. Working your ass off to achieve something. Now he's breaking that rule by handing out power ups to characters that have no business with them in the first place. Thats called a plothole, also known as an ass pull. Kaguya's presence changes none of that, because her introduction falls under PLOT PROGRESSION not STORY CREATION. I don't mind Kaguya being introduced into the story. Its the road that lead to it I have a problem with.

If I told you a story about a kid who never did anything immoral in his life. Was the boy scout of his generation; the captain america of his age group. Little Johnny then took a test in school one day. PLOT PROGRESSION is little Johnny failing the test. Its a variable that, regardless of whether he passes or fails, cannot be changed. STORY CREATION is little Johnny never doing an immoral thing in his life, yet the reason why he failed the test is because he cheated on it. Make sense?


And PS: While it may not take years to make your next ham sandwich, never forget that the "professional" is the man behind the counter at your favorite restaurant that spend years learning how to make one.
 

Koha

Jōnin Strategist 🧠
Regular
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
1,672
Reaction score
124
This manga has plenty of strategy even now! People are just too freaking stupid to see it! Even in this chapter alone, Naruto used Kakashi's diversion to take the opportunity to transform into Sasuke and fool Kaguya. Naruto also used strategy when he barraged Kaguya with clones in order to get Kaguya to open the portal so that Obito could get through and go to save Sasuke. He also used strategy when he intentionally made it look as if he had been trapped by Kaguya's attack in order to draw Kaguya in close to him and then unleash his attack!

Does this not register to you?! All of this is what is known as strategy!! Yet you people ignore it and then falsely complain that there is no strategy!



Nothing is contradicted! When did Kishi say anything that contradicted Obito's actions for instance? Never did he say something like that!! It is just you people getting mad because you did not see it coming.

"Less Strategically Inclined" ... There's no longer deep planning, and feints and deceptions HAVE ALWAYS been apart of Naruto's repertoire. No matter what, there's an EXTREME difference between the fighting then and now... And you want proof of that? Just watch Sasuke vs. Deidara all over again, or even go back to Part I with Neji vs. Kidomaru or Shikamaru vs. Tayuya, Where Strategy DOMINATED raw power.... These days, A>B>C logic works extremely well as it wasn't the case just before this war started.
 

Umari Senju

Kage in the Making 👑
Legendary
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
12,535
Reaction score
1,192
After looking further into it, Obito Madara's rikudo chakra when he got the bijuu for Naruto.

I can buy that. I figured he had some. But I didn't think he got it from Naruto. It's fine he stole it from Madara. so that is okay with me.
 
Top