Hokage vs JJ Madara

[Apêx1]

His arms would have been up in a Full Nelson, no?

Nelson was bing used metaphorically for restraining from the back.

 

[ARGUS]

i dont think it was limbo that immobilised sasuke,
it looked more like a deva path ability,
sasukes position doesnt seem like it was susanoo either because then his posture would have been somewhat like danzo as KG said
if it was susanoo then sasuke would have been able to move any part of his body that wasnt caught by its hand,
and his body would have been completely squished together, yet that clearly wasnt the case

we see sasuke coming to attack madara,
madara looks directly at sasukes position
and then hes restrained, unable to move even a single spec of his body, and most likely unable to use any ninjutsu

Spoiler

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Why are you assuming that this is BSM Naruto? OP never made any restriction. This is Hokage Naruto w/ The Last battle sense. Basically Hokage Naruto who isn't rusty.

i dont know, because the words ''the last'' naruto immediately brought up BSM naruto in my head,
if its just ''the last'' mindset then naruto is definitely capable of taking madara out
considering how much stronger he has gotten from his VOTE self

on a side note, we have seen madaras limbo susanoo in the new game, not sure if its valid or not but if kishi has any role in this, then im curious about its credibility here

 

[rinnegan human puppet]

There is no need to save them when they'd be right next to him in his Avatar. He has no reason to be distracted. On the other hand, Madara has to fight off 4 Kurama Avatars and 1 Perfect Susanoo from Kakashi.

His Mokuton Clones aren't doing anything here as they can't use PS. Getting more chakra doesn't automatically mean he can do so when his techniques are also much much stronger than they were before, thus more chakra is required. If he couldn't use 25 PS w/ Mokuton Clones when he was an Edo, then he's not going to do it with the Juubi, not when his techs also increase in scale and power with the Juubi boost. 1 Bijuu Dama and his clones are wrecked.

Limbo can't use Jutsu. Never shown. Never stated. Never hinted. Madara can't use multiple Juubidama trees at once nor can he do that and use Chibaku Tensei at once. Madara isn't dodging when he had trouble evading YRS from a weaker Naruto. He isn't tanking when his PS is not on the level of Bijuu Susanoo. Naruto can detonate his FRS at command, so Shinra Tensei isn't going to work, not to mention it'd only repel it, so it'd still hit something, explode and take Madara out. Limbo tanking it doesn't even make sense since it covers the whole battlefield.

No reason to believe he can cast IT once it's been activated. That's like saying a Pokemon can use Sunny Day twice despite it already being active. Not how it works.

4 kyuubi avatars and kakashi's PS vs 4 limbo PS + wood style susano clones + madara's Juubi powered and or infinite tsukuyomi victims chakra PS

@bold doesn't make no sense at all to me. if you could explain it better that would be awesome.

-DB says limbos are replicas of madara with the exact ability. i choose to believe it, you don't have to.

-why can't madara do what i stated?

- A weaker version of madara, who was still regenerating from night gai, with out the shinju and missing his other rinnegan and rinne sharingan, this is a way weaker version of madara that had trouble dodging naruto's fire RS.

-with the juubi madara has the ability to make his PS way stronger than sasuke's bijuu PS. not only is it the source of all chakra its completely made of natural energy that cant even be measured. in other words, madara has way more bijuu chakra at his disposal than sasuke ever did, and way more natural energy than naruto has ever even imagined of.

-I dont remember naruto being able to donate his attacks at will, regardless if thats the case, shit would be pushed all the way back mountain ranges away from madara with shinra tensei, or madara could petra it, madara would have no problem absorbing all that energy since again the juubi is the source of all chakra and is literally made of natural energy. and limbo tanking it makes perfect sense since madara's PS will only have to tank the after shock of the explosion and that the direct blow. its so many possibilities for madara to completely avoid that attack with little to no damage.

-Don't know why u would even compare this to pokemon :| makes no sense at all, If madara's rinne sharingan eye reflects off the moon and madara does the handseals to activate the infinite tsukuyomi why wouldn't the moon shine again trapping everybody thats not already in the genjutsu? a tree ranch would pick them right up after the moon shines on them, trapping them in the genjutsu just like everybody else.

 

[Kagustuchi]

4 kyuubi avatars and kakashi's PS vs 4 limbo PS + wood style susano clones + madara's Juubi powered and or infinite tsukuyomi victims chakra PS

Limbos can't use PS and Mokuton Bunshin are a non-factor. They're far weaker than the original and won't have enough chakra to form/sustain a Susano'O strong enough to be a factor in the battle

It's not even a matter of whether the Limbo can use PS or not, they don't have the chakra. Even if they could use Jutsu, which they can't, they could only use Jutsu allotted by the amount of chakra they have. Which would have to come from Madara, further dividing his chakra. Now don't go trying to run away with the latter part of my statement either, your going to have to show scans or bring some type of proof that Limbos can use Jutsu, which they never did in the manga. Ability doesn't automatically translate to "they can use PS lol"

-DB says limbos are replicas of madara with the exact ability. i choose to believe it, you don't have to.

Above.

-why can't madara do what i stated?

If your referring to him using Chibaku Tensei Downpour and Juubidama at the same time then I actually believe he can. Using PS in conjunction with other similar caliber Jutsu (Chibaku Tensei Downpour) could be argued against.

- A weaker version of madara, who was still regenerating from night gai, with out the shinju and missing his other rinnegan and rinne sharingan, this is a way weaker version of madara that had trouble dodging naruto's fire RS.

Madara already

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that he wasn't still weakend from Gai's attack. Null and Void.

Shinju definitely bumped up his speed but getting the other Rinnegan would only speed him up a negligible amount, not enough to where it would make a difference in scaling. That was RSM Naruto's RS too, Naruto gets a lot faster when he enters RBSM, so much so that his Shunshin forced Madara to use his fastest Jutsu to simply defend himself.

-with the juubi madara has the ability to make his PS way stronger than sasuke's bijuu PS. not only is it the source of all chakra its completely made of natural energy that cant even be measured. in other words, madara has way more bijuu chakra at his disposal than sasuke ever did, and way more natural energy than naruto has ever even imagined of.

Sasuke's Biju PS = Indra's Flourished Chakra + Half of Hagoromo's Chakra + Chakra from all 9 Bijuu. JJ Madara's PS is simply his own original Chakra (K-mart quality Hagormo Chakra) and the Juubi's Chakra. Sasuke's Biju Chakra PS should be a tier above JJ Madara's.

-I dont remember naruto being able to donate his attacks at will, regardless if thats the case, shit would be pushed all the way back mountain ranges away from madara with shinra tensei, or madara could petra it, madara would have no problem absorbing all that energy since again the juubi is the source of all chakra and is literally made of natural energy. and limbo tanking it makes perfect sense since madara's PS will only have to tank the after shock of the explosion and that the direct blow. its so many possibilities for madara to completely avoid that attack with little to no damage.

Detonates his YRS

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. Madara could probably absorb one or so, but even Kaguya wasn't absorbing the barrages. So no reason to believe Madara could do so.

-Don't know why u would even compare this to pokemon :| makes no sense at all, If madara's rinne sharingan eye reflects off the moon and madara does the handseals to activate the infinite tsukuyomi why wouldn't the moon shine again trapping everybody thats not already in the genjutsu? a tree ranch would pick them right up after the moon shines on them, trapping them in the genjutsu just like everybody else.

Then Kaguya would have done so against Naruto after she separated him from Sasuke. When I made the OP I didn't think anyone would use IT as an argument since he already cast it, but with intel Naruto's too fast to let him anyway.

 

[rinnegan human puppet]

Limbos can't use PS and Mokuton Bunshin are a non-factor. They're far weaker than the original and won't have enough chakra to form/sustain a Susano'O strong enough to be a factor in the battle

It's not even a matter of whether the Limbo can use PS or not, they don't have the chakra. Even if they could use Jutsu, which they can't, they could only use Jutsu allotted by the amount of chakra they have. Which would have to come from Madara, further dividing his chakra. Now don't go trying to run away with the latter part of my statement either, your going to have to show scans or bring some type of proof that Limbos can use Jutsu, which they never did in the manga. Ability doesn't automatically translate to "they can use PS lol"




Above.



If your referring to him using Chibaku Tensei Downpour and Juubidama at the same time then I actually believe he can. Using PS in conjunction with other similar caliber Jutsu (Chibaku Tensei Downpour) could be argued against.



Madara already

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that he wasn't still weakend from Gai's attack. Null and Void.

Shinju definitely bumped up his speed but getting the other Rinnegan would only speed him up a negligible amount, not enough to where it would make a difference in scaling. That was RSM Naruto's RS too, Naruto gets a lot faster when he enters RBSM, so much so that his Shunshin forced Madara to use his fastest Jutsu to simply defend himself.



Sasuke's Biju PS = Indra's Flourished Chakra + Half of Hagoromo's Chakra + Chakra from all 9 Bijuu. JJ Madara's PS is simply his own original Chakra (K-mart quality Hagormo Chakra) and the Juubi's Chakra. Sasuke's Biju Chakra PS should be a tier above JJ Madara's.




Detonates his YRS

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. Madara could probably absorb one or so, but even Kaguya wasn't absorbing the barrages. So no reason to believe Madara could do so.



Then Kaguya would have done so against Naruto after she separated him from Sasuke. When I made the OP I didn't think anyone would use IT as an argument since he already cast it, but with intel Naruto's too fast to let him anyway.

again i believe limbo can use PS, but u dont have to. and if naruto has enough chakra to have 4 shadow clones with kurama avatars, a JJ madara has more than enough for his limbo's to use PS and all his abilities, which again DB stated they have. but not everybody believes the DB.

i disagree with sasuke's bijuu susano thing, indra + half of hago + 9bijuu's shouldn't be above some one like madara, who has complete hagoromo chakra ( RSM + Rinnegan) and the juubi who has unmeasurable chakra and natural energy, prime madara's PS should be tiers above sasuke's bijuu PS.

when it comes with naruto donating his RS attacks at will i agree, but we honestly don't know if kaguya's absorbing is above madara's, since madara showed the same feat kaguya did of absorbing amaterasu with no eyes or juubi. regardless madara would still survive that attack and regenerate, he could send a limbo to deal with the initial burst and just tank the aftershock of the big ass explosion, which he should have no problem doing. since he is "immortal"


kaguya not doing IT against naruto doesn't prove anything as the good guys have to win, kaguya would've 1 shoted naruto if she had done that, this is a non restriction battle, i dont see why not madara can just fly up to the moon and 1 shot with infinite tsukuyomi. it was never stated it couldn't be re-casted to add more people in to the tsukuyomi.

i dont like how u compare kaguya to madara but w/e lol.


i guess i give up though, since im going with madara's limbo being able to use PS. since u don't agree with that theres nothing i could do.

agree to disagree then.

 

[MickNerks]

Team Hokage take this IMO

 

[AlphaMaleLion]

Madara absolutely stomps