[Debate] Hiruzen Was the Worst Hokage — Naruto Knew It 💀

[Hori]

Hiruzen defenders need to explain this one.​

Bro was Hokage while:

• Naruto grew up alone and hated by the village.
• Danzo ran a whole shadow organisation under his nose.
• Orochimaru escaped despite Hiruzen knowing what he was doing.
• The Uchiha situation was allowed to reach the point of massacre.
• Itachi, a literal teenager, had to carry the burden of protecting Konoha.

Hiruzen wasn't evil — he was just way too passive when it mattered.

And that's why Naruto replacing his picture with Itachi's would actually be poetic.

Itachi sacrificed everything because of the failures of the shinobi system.

Naruto became Hokage to change that system.

Hiruzen represents the old Konoha.

Itachi represents what that system cost people.

Naruto represents breaking the cycle.

Was Hiruzen actually the worst Hokage, or is the fandom too hard on him?

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[minamoto]

Madara uchiha is best hokagé..

 

[Kooljay]

Naruto didnt really change anything. In he Land of War arc he wanted to change the whole ninja system away from raising children as tools of war.

 

[minamoto]

Naruto didnt really change anything. In he Land of War arc he wanted to change the whole ninja system away from raising children as tools of war.

u had to criticize naruto becoz even u know there'z nothing worth praizing about that lame fodder ass uchiwa sasuke..

 

[Kooljay]

u had to criticize naruto becoz even u know there'z nothing worth praizing about that lame fodder ass uchiwa sasuke..

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[minamoto]

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[Hori]

Naruto didnt really change anything. In he Land of War arc he wanted to change the whole ninja system away from raising children as tools of war.

Naruto absolutely wanted to change the system, but the series never really showed the full-scale reform you’re talking about. He changed how people viewed each other and broke the cycle of hatred, but the shinobi system itself largely remained intact. So I’d say Naruto changed the ideology, not necessarily the institution.

 

[minamoto]

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[Kooljay]

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[minamoto]

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damn bobito..he crawling like lizzzard..

 

[Legendary Saiyan]

I used to defend him until I found out he didn't do shit when Naruto was refused FOOD by the villagers.

All that power all that influence and he just lets it happen.

I won't even include the useless ass filler "I'll take care of him, Kushina."

While the PrimeHiruzen trend is still peak, respectfully **** dat guy.

 

[minamoto]

I used to defend him until I found out he didn't do shit when Naruto was refused FOOD by the villagers.

All that power all that influence and he just lets it happen.

I won't even include the useless ass filler "I'll take care of him, Kushina."

While the PrimeHiruzen trend is still peak, respectfully **** dat guy.

r u talkin to me?????..

 

[Legendary Saiyan]

r u talkin to me?????..

I would never

 

[minamoto]

I would never

u just did..

 

[Legendary Saiyan]

u just did..

NUH UH

 

[Fraid 🥉]

Hashirama let prime Madara roam freely while he thought of himself as the only person alive who could contend with his power - a moral crime, especially for a kage with his ideology

Tobirama was the actual villain, discriminating on a major clan - both a tactical and ethical crime

Hiruzen did most of that when Naruto was not born yet, so what do you mean by "Naruto knew"?

Minato had a mad power/superiority complex, allowing enemies to live in Killer A and being lacsadaiscal about internal village matters like the Uchiha and Hyuuga situation

Tsunade didnt even love the village, she only did it for Naruto - a foundational flaw

Kakashi was lazy, not refining any of the village systems to their tactical best despite supposedly being a genius and his whole generation lived for themselves with Hayate Gekko being the only true villagist

 

[Troi 👑]

Hashirama let prime Madara roam freely while he thought of himself as the only person alive who could contend with his power - a moral crime, especially for a kage with his ideology

Tobirama was the actual villain, discriminating on a major clan - both a tactical and ethical crime

Hiruzen did most of that when Naruto was not born yet, so what do you mean by "Naruto knew"?

Minato had a mad power/superiority complex, allowing enemies to live in Killer A and being lacsadaiscal about internal village matters like the Uchiha and Hyuuga situation

Tsunade didnt even love the village, she only did it for Naruto - a foundational flaw

Kakashi was lazy, not refining any of the village systems to their tactical best despite supposedly being a genius and his whole generation lived for themselves with Hayate Gekko being the only true villagist

I don't understand the first two. Either all the way or not at all in that era so how are they both bad instead of both good or one bad and one good? Genuine question. The Uchiha were always a problem. How would Tobirama be at fault for his ideology given the time? And if you think he is wrong, how could you fault Hashirama for letting Madara live if Tobirama was wrong? It seems like a double edged sword.

 

[Fraid 🥉]

I don't understand the first two. Either all the way or not at all in that era so how are they both bad instead of both good or one bad and one good? Genuine question. The Uchiha were always a problem. How would Tobirama be at fault for his ideology given the time? And if you think he is wrong, how could you fault Hashirama for letting Madara live if Tobirama was wrong? It seems like a double edged sword.

Madara was an indidivual going around fighting people, the clan is chilling in the village, giving diplomacy a chance

 

[Troi 👑]

Madara was an indidivual going around fighting people, the clan is chilling in the village, giving diplomacy a chance

Wasn't Madara the catalyst for why the Uchiha and Senju had a war in the first place? He was only a casual guy walking around fighting people after most of his family was wiped out the first time because of him. Obito was like the second coming of that after what happened to him if not an exact replication due to grief and anguish, and Itachi was not too far behind. On top of that, Obito helped Itachi murder his clan. That's peak unhinged regardless of the circumstance. I would have just accepted another war in that position. If Danzo can get clapped by Sasuke he would have got clapped by most of their heavy hitters v 1 especially via assassination. So I still don't get it. Uchiha were violent by nature it seemed so if anything I see it as Tobirama as proper and Hashirama as blinded by sympathy or guilt. I'm not trying to argue I'm just explaining so you can explain to me better because there must be something I am missing. Last time we debated, I didn't like it so I'm not debating with you, I'm talking.