Hiruzen was a poor leader

[-Vegeta-]

To me Hiruzen was simply a poor leader. He never had the courage to put his foot down when needing to. He may have been seen, known, and had the title of hokage, but Danzo was the one really leading the village.

I mean in the recent chapter when the people of the orphanage said they would go to Hiruzen had Danzo and the leaf stopped funding the orphanage if they didn't cooperate, but Danzo didn't even care, which pretty much tells me that Hiruzen was very soft and simply let people step on him when it came to political issues.

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Another issue with him was his handling of Orochimaru. He continued to be naive thinking his student would change and refused to kill him and it ended up costing him his life and deaths of his fellow shinobi.

Then there's the issue of the Uchiha massacre where Danzo orchestrated the entire thing and Hiruzen knew about it, but still failed to stop it. He just seemed way too soft and naive and it ended up resulting in a lot of things that could've been avoided had he the courage to do what needed to be done.

This is in no way trying to say Hiruzen is a weak shinobi, only a poor leader. Danzo was the true hokage of that village.

 

[Princeton]

I agree how did he let danzo call the shots and have itachi kill the uchiha clan, he was the fckin hokage he shouldve put his foot down

 

[kakashi owns all]

i completely disagree his was the strongest and best hokaga ever

 

[EliteKakashi]

Yeah, it's quite obvious he was piss poor as a hokage. He was far too nice of a person and wasn't confrontational at all, which led to a lot of bad things for Konoha.

 

[-Vegeta-]

i completely disagree his was the strongest and best hokaga ever

*Sigh* did you even bother reading? I said this thread had nothing to do with his strength, only his leadership, which is shown to be very poor throughout this manga.

 

[Blaze Release]

I fully agree, there has been many things that has taken place when he was hokage that i didnt like.

How oro could get away with his experiments on baby's (yamato for example) and not find out is surprising. How you let such a person go is beyond me.

The uchiha massacre is also another thing. Danzo playing with people's likes like what he did to kabuto and kabuto's mother si also something else.

You also forgot that during the 3rd ninja war some of the actions of the leaf shinobi's are questionable, but also danzo meeting with hanzo.

I agree, Tsunade has more balls than him

 

[Cronos]

I think that root was just to good at washing of the proof, but Hiruzen was still bad at everything except fighting 4 me. i mean he let Naruto suffer for a long time without ever telling him who his parents where. and letting oro escape, and not being aware about a invading army that is within Konohas Border.

 

[Ryuu..]

Point 1. I believe that just shows Danzo did not want to show that Hiruzen was superior to him in anyway, because they'd always been rivals (Hiruzen was always a step ahead) and Danzo hated him for it.

Point 2. Really was no point trying to stop it, either the Uchiha were killed or the Village was destroyed. The Uchiha weren't going to back down, Hiruzen tried political methods, but in the end they left him with no choice. He ordered what was best for the village.

About Orochimaru, well, this is true, but there are countless other shinobi who have made misjudgements.

 

[kakashi owns all]

*Sigh* did you even bother reading? I said this thread had nothing to do with his strength, only his leadership, which is shown to be very poor throughout this manga.

i read your whole tread as a matter of fact and like i said i disagree and i also said "best" not just strongest

 

[-Vegeta-]

i read your whole tread as a matter of fact and like i said i disagree and i also said "best" not just strongest

You're free to disagree, but that doesn't change the fact that Hiruzen's leadership has been shown in the manga to be piss poor.

Point 1. I believe that just shows Danzo did not want to show that Hiruzen was superior to him in anyway, because they'd always been rivals (Hiruzen was always a step ahead) and Danzo hated him for it.

Point 2. Really was no point trying to stop it, either the Uchiha were killed or the Village was destroyed. The Uchiha weren't going to back down, Hiruzen tried political methods, but in the end they left him with no choice. He ordered what was best for the village.

About Orochimaru, well, this is true, but there are countless other shinobi who have made misjudgements.

Danzo simply didn't care. He didn't flinch or anything when the leaders of the orphanage said they'd go to Hiruzen. Danzo knows Hiruzen is soft and has said as much several times in the manga.

There were plenty of ways to stop it. The Uchiha were planning coup de ta due to them being discriminated meaning Hiruzen as hokage could've at least tried to help them. Like integrating them back into the village instead of keeping them in the outskirts of the village.

 

[Waltz]

i completely disagree his was the strongest and best hokaga ever

***Sigh***.....did you even read the OP? :sy: I'm not getting into this ^ a bit tired right now.

 

[Better]

I wouldn't say he's a bad leader, tbh the village seemed to prosper when he was hokage

but his fault was that he was too tolerant and too forgiving

when he thought the kazekage (oro) attacked the chuunin exams and had a kunai to his throat he told him "if you stop now we could forget this ever happened"

 

[kakashi owns all]

You're free to disagree, but that doesn't change the fact that Hiruzen's leadership has been shown in the manga to be piss poor.

his leadership has been superb in many regards

***Sigh***.....did you even read the OP? :sy: I'm not getting into this ^ a bit tired right now.

yes as i said above

 

[-Vegeta-]

his leadership has been superb in many regards



yes as i said above

I'd love for you to name one. I'm talking about political issues, not fighting. The only one and I mean only one I know of is his handling of the hyuuga incident.

 

[~MC117~]

I fucking agree! +Rep!

 

[kakashi owns all]

I'd love for you to name one. I'm talking about political issues, not fighting. The only one and I mean only one I know of is his handling of the hyuuga incident.

you answered your own question now i would like to say the uchiha one. they where attempting an uprising and had to be stoped the 3rd tryed to deal with it piecefully but the uchiha refused therefor he let them be killed

 

[Ryuu..]

You're free to disagree, but that doesn't change the fact that Hiruzen's leadership has been shown in the manga to be piss poor.



Danzo simply didn't care. He didn't flinch or anything when the leaders of the orphanage said they'd go to Hiruzen. Danzo knows Hiruzen is soft and has said as much several times in the manga.

There were plenty of ways to stop it. The Uchiha were planning coup de ta due to them being discriminated meaning Hiruzen as hokage could've at least tried to help them. Like integrating them back into the village instead of keeping them in the outskirts of the village.

Why would he have done that when the Uchiha's were suspected of being behind the Kyuubi attack? Let's not forget that they were no where to be seen that day. The fact that they were planning to overthrow the village would've only added to his, and the higher ups, suspicions. Moreover, you say he could've done other things but we already know he tried to reason with them and offer bargains but the Uchiha simply weren't having any of it. I would say it takes a bold leader to order the extermination of a section of his village, all for the greater good.

 

[SageRinnegan]

well, the fact that we only really saw his leadership for about three months before he died can't really give us this call.
I wouldn't say he was a poor leader. being lenient doesn't mean he was poor.
He wasn't exactly what you would call "ballsy."
1. when the "kazekage" attacked him, he said "if you stop now, we can forget this ever happened."
However, don't forget what they had to sacrifice to get to where they were. After years of war and strife, they finally had a chance for peace. He didn't want to ruin it in one minute by f***ing up the kazekage.
2. He didn't really help naruto.
Yeah. He didn't. Because he couldn't. Naruto was hated for having kurama sealed inside of him. Naruto was regarded as the nine-tails, even though hiruzen made it a point he should be remembered as minato and kushina's son. to gain everyones acceptance and love was naruto's and naruto's task alone.
3. He could have stopped the uchiha massacre.
Out of the four elders who were involved in the plot, he was the only person who was against it. However, he was forced to change his mind, for lack of a better option. It was literally destroy the uchiha, or have the village be destroyed in what could become one hell of a civil war.

He isn't weak, he just did the best he could under the circumstances.

It's one of the basic rules of leading. If anything went wrong, its always the leader's fault. I suppose thats why danzo was able to do his work so effectively; all the blame would go to hiruzen.

And if he was such a poor leader, why was everyone in the village so upset when he died?
He would have been rebelled against if he hadn't been a good leader.

 

[-Vegeta-]

you answered your own question now i would like to say the uchiha one. they where attempting an uprising and had to be stoped the 3rd tryed to deal with it piecefully but the uchiha refused therefor he let them be killed

Hiruzen failed to stop it and it had nothing to do with the Uchiha refusing. That's never even mentioned in the manga. It's only stated that Hiruzen failed to stop it. Danzo and the other elders to didn't care to hear it from Hiruzen and simply went ahead with the massacre.

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Why would he have done that when the Uchiha's were suspected of being behind the Kyuubi attack? Let's not forget that they were no where to be seen that day. The fact that they were planning to overthrow the village would've only added to his, and the higher ups, suspicions. Moreover, you say he could've done other things but we already know he tried to reason with them and offer bargains but the Uchiha simply weren't having any of it. I would say it takes a bold leader to order the extermination of a section of his village, all for the greater good.

Hiruzen never tried to reason with them. I don't know where people are getting this from. He tried to reason with Danzo and the other elders and they simply weren't having it(look at the scan above) and went ahead with the massacre, which again proves how soft Hiruzen was.

 

[Kratos of cruxis]

Are yu not reading what the dude in the glasses said? He said they would take it meaning the orpans would get the money but a root ninja would steal it and hiruzen TRIED peace negotiations with the uchiha but they said no so it was the uhiha clan or konoha which one you think hiruzen would have chose he knew danzo was planing it and LET him order itachi to kill the clan all of what you said made no since