Hiruzen vs. Onoki

[Enton]

Hiruzen defeats Hashirama, Tobirama, and nearly Orochimaru all at the same time and everyone thinks he's crap.

Onoki is unable to beat Muu with Gaara and a division backing him up, gets downright humiliated by the Nidaime Mizukage with Gaara and a division backing him up, and fails to do anything against Madara, and everyone thinks he's a powerhouse.

Thoughts?

Note, this is about Hiruzen and Onoki only.

 

[Pavoneo]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

Everyone thinks Hiruzen is crap? That's news to me.

 

[Vasto Lordé]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

Oh lol now it's Hiruzen VS Onoki...

 

[Zoro..]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

Hiruzen defeats Hashirama, Tobirama, and nearly Orochimaru all at the same time and everyone thinks he's crap.

Onoki is unable to beat Muu with Gaara and a division backing him up, gets downright humiliated by the Nidaime Mizukage with Gaara and a division backing him up, and fails to do anything against Madara, and everyone thinks he's a powerhouse.

Thoughts?

Note, this is about Hiruzen and Onoki only.

Completely failure argument. Why? Orochimaru had a imperfect Edo Tensei and did not have full knowledge of their power. Did Hashirama use his giant forest with pollin? Did the Tobirama use S/T or anything besides his more basic attacks? No because Orochimaru was terrible at using them.

For your second argument Onoki has Dust which is probably the strongest elemental KG. If I had the choice to go up against Hiruzen or Onoki Id chose Hiruzen any day because Onoki may be far older but he seems far stronger due to dust. In my opinion Hiruzen is overrated (not crap). Just cause Kishi said he was the best dosent mean it's true because he contradicted himself often enough in the manga when he changes his mind on things.

 

[Invsblphntm]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

Who has ever said Oonoki>Hiruzen? Seriously?

 

[Deadai]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

Hiruzen defeats Hashirama, Tobirama, and nearly Orochimaru all at the same time and everyone thinks he's crap.

Onoki is unable to beat Muu with Gaara and a division backing him up, gets downright humiliated by the Nidaime Mizukage with Gaara and a division backing him up, and fails to do anything against Madara, and everyone thinks he's a powerhouse.

Thoughts?

Note, this is about Hiruzen and Onoki only.

LOL no people overate the shit out of Hiruzen he is a strong shinobi but not on the rank of Hashirama.The one Orochimaru controlled was waterd down

You're saying soemone who tanked 2 meters isint a powerhouse? He wasent even in his prime he is like 75-85 years old!!

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[Hipster Madara]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

because hiruzen died and resorted to reaper seal while oonoki is still alive and took on 2 meteors?
also, i (maybe other people do too) just think oonoki's techniques are cooler but dont think hiruzen is weak at all. part 2 fights are more op. and hiruzen's fight was a long time ago.
all i got.

 

[Mejkl3]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

1) Orochimarus edo tensei was weak unlike Kabutos
2) 1st and 2nd Hokage were Hiruzens senseis so he knew their weakness
3) Dont know if it was a succesfull win for hiruzen cuz after battle Orochimaru was standing and Hiruzen was dead.
4) Hiruzen was also Oros sensei

Mu was one of the strongest shinobi and at time Onokii is old and has back problems >.>

Lol if u think Onokii has done nothing to Madara then reread the last chapters

 

[markdabomb22]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

People just like onoki because he spams jinton no one ever really puts thought into understanding hiruzens true strength they assume since hiruzen hasn't show big OP ass jutsu that means he must not have any.

 

[Enton]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

Completely failure argument. Why? Orochimaru had a imperfect Edo Tensei and did not have full knowledge of their power. Did Hashirama use his giant forest with pollin? Did the Tobirama use S/T or anything besides his more basic attacks? No because Orochimaru was terrible at using them.

For your second argument Onoki has Dust which is probably the strongest elemental KG. If I had the choice to go up against Hiruzen or Onoki Id chose Hiruzen any day because Onoki may be far older but he seems far stronger due to dust. In my opinion Hiruzen is overrated (not crap). Just cause Kishi said he was the best dosent mean it's true because he contradicted himself often enough in the manga when he changes his mind on things.

Orochimaru perfected Edo Tensei. FACT.

Hashirama & Tobirama lacked control. -1 point.
They were Edo and had regenerative abilities. +1
They had a 2 vs 1 advantage. +1
Score: +1

Hiruzen was at a disadvantage because he was old and was UNABLE to use many of his chakra consuming jutsu. -1.
He was outnumbered 2 to 1. -1
Score: -2

Who was at the disavantage?

You said They didn't use thier techniques. HIrzuen didn't use his :|

 

[Deadai]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

Who has ever said Oonoki>Hiruzen? Seriously?

I have because Onoki would curb stomp Hiruzen

 

[Mattobi]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

Everyone thinks Hiruzen is crap? That's news to me.

There have been a lot of threads against Hiruzen lately.

Completely failure argument. Why? Orochimaru had a imperfect Edo Tensei and did not have full knowledge of their power. Did Hashirama use his giant forest with pollin? Did the Tobirama use S/T or anything besides his more basic attacks? No because Orochimaru was terrible at using them.

For your second argument Onoki has Dust which is probably the strongest elemental KG. If I had the choice to go up against Hiruzen or Onoki Id chose Hiruzen any day because Onoki may be far older but he seems far stronger due to dust. In my opinion Hiruzen is overrated (not crap). Just cause Kishi said he was the best dosent mean it's true because he contradicted himself often enough in the manga when he changes his mind on things.

What he said.
I admitt that Hiruzen is strong, but Onoki's Dust Release is just impossible to avoid unless you use jutsus like: Flying Thunder God, The Gates of Rashomon (think that's the name of those walls Orochimaru used against Naruto) or another Dust jutsu.
I also agree with Zoro about the fact that Orochimaru didn't use a perfect Edo Tensei like Kabuto did this time. If I recall correctly, Kabuto stated that he developped the Edo Tensei even further than Orochimaro did and thus also giving a boost to the revived people's power.

 

[lol99]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

i knew it was a fail thread when i read oonoki fails to do anything against madara

 

[Enton]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

What, has Oonoki done to defeat Madara? Madara is the same now as when he started lol.

 

[Pavoneo]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

because hiruzen died and resorted to reaper seal while oonoki is still alive and took on 2 meteors?
also, i (maybe other people do too) just think oonoki's techniques are cooler but dont think hiruzen is weak at all. part 2 fights are more op. and hiruzen's fight was a long time ago.
all i got.

That's a huge factor. The Power scale drastically changed from the time of the Hiruzen vs. Orochimaru fight to us seeing Oonoki fight.

That's why so many ninja look like complete fodders now (Zabuza, Konoha 11, ANBU, etc etc.)

If that Hiruzen vs. Orochimaru fight were to take place at the same distance from the beginning of the Manga to where we are now, the fight would be completely different. Probably one of the bigger fights of the manga because the power scaling increased drastically.

 

[Owarij]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

Completely failure argument. Why? Orochimaru had a imperfect Edo Tensei and did not have full knowledge of their power. Did Hashirama use his giant forest with pollin? Did the Tobirama use S/T or anything besides his more basic attacks? No because Orochimaru was terrible at using them.

For your second argument Onoki has Dust which is probably the strongest elemental KG. If I had the choice to go up against Hiruzen or Onoki Id chose Hiruzen any day because Onoki may be far older but he seems far stronger due to dust. In my opinion Hiruzen is overrated (not crap). Just cause Kishi said he was the best dosent mean it's true because he contradicted himself often enough in the manga when he changes his mind on things.

Orochimaru perfected edo tensei.. He said it, Kabuto said it.. how do you know he didn't have full control?

He wouldn't control them if he didn't have full knowledge.. Like when kabuto didn't have full knowledge what did he do? ask madara to fight for him....

God do you people like making stuff up

 

[KyoshiroSenju]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

Completely failure argument. Why? Orochimaru had a imperfect Edo Tensei and did not have full knowledge of their power. Did Hashirama use his giant forest with pollin? Did the Tobirama use S/T or anything besides his more basic attacks? No because Orochimaru was terrible at using them.

For your second argument Onoki has Dust which is probably the strongest elemental KG. If I had the choice to go up against Hiruzen or Onoki Id chose Hiruzen any day because Onoki may be far older but he seems far stronger due to dust. In my opinion Hiruzen is overrated (not crap). Just cause Kishi said he was the best dosent mean it's true because he contradicted himself often enough in the manga when he changes his mind on things.

This^^

 

[lol99]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

Completely failure argument. Why? Orochimaru had a imperfect Edo Tensei and did not have full knowledge of their power. Did Hashirama use his giant forest with pollin? Did the Tobirama use S/T or anything besides his more basic attacks? No because Orochimaru was terrible at using them.

For your second argument Onoki has Dust which is probably the strongest elemental KG. If I had the choice to go up against Hiruzen or Onoki Id chose Hiruzen any day because Onoki may be far older but he seems far stronger due to dust. In my opinion Hiruzen is overrated (not crap). Just cause Kishi said he was the best dosent mean it's true because he contradicted himself often enough in the manga when he changes his mind on things.

true story ^ U_U

 

[Zoro..]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

What, has Oonoki done to defeat Madara? Madara is the same now as when he started lol.

So tell me. Was Hiruzen ever capable of coming remotely close to beating someone like Madara?

Orochimaru perfected edo tensei.. He said it, Kabuto said it.. how do you know he didn't have full control?

He wouldn't control them if he didn't have full knowledge.. Like when kabuto didn't have full knowledge what did he do? ask madara to fight for him....

God do you people like making stuff up

Well,

Nobody knew Hashirama's power since it was considered god like. Just like nobody knew of Madara. And if Orochimaru asked Hashirama and Tobirama to fight how they wanted do you really think they'd attack Hiruzen?

And Kabuto said he mastered it to a higher degree then Orochimaru. Therefore Kabuto made it more the perfect. So even if Orochimaru did have "perfect" control he couldn't use them to their fullest anyways. And asking them to fight how they wanted to wouldnt make sense.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

Re: I have a question for some of you "debaters"

Completely failure argument. Why? Orochimaru had a imperfect Edo Tensei and did not have full knowledge of their power. Did Hashirama use his giant forest with pollin? Did the Tobirama use S/T or anything besides his more basic attacks? No because Orochimaru was terrible at using them.

For your second argument Onoki has Dust which is probably the strongest elemental KG. If I had the choice to go up against Hiruzen or Onoki Id chose Hiruzen any day because Onoki may be far older but he seems far stronger due to dust. In my opinion Hiruzen is overrated (not crap). Just cause Kishi said he was the best dosent mean it's true because he contradicted himself often enough in the manga when he changes his mind on things.

The smartest thing and only thing anyone should read on this thread.