Hiruzen vs Jiraiya (no conditions)

[Reborn]

Hiruzen hasn't shown his full capabilities though.....Thus this vs thread shouldn't even be made....But what he does have is hype by everyone.....Everyone seems to think that guy used to be the shitt.... So are they all speculating? The anbu ninja, Iruka, Kabuto ,Orochimaru, His pet summon emna .... Just because a character hasn't shown what he can do doesn't mean he isn't strong...
Before Madara was shown... Would you say jiraya was able to defeat Madara? all he had was hype..Strongest Uchiha, Controlled kyuubi like a pet, Battle with first Made a Valley .....

Would you say jiraya would beat him even though he never made a appearance ?

For people like Madara I would look at the context. It was fact that he controlled the kyuubi, it was fact that he had EMS the most powerful set of eyes in the Uchiha clan, however, until recently I believed Tobi to Madara so I would've based my info on what we had on Tobi, not from the past so no, I wouldn't say Jiraiya would beat Madara but at the time it would be because I could prove it. Now that I know Madara isn't Tobi I would have to use the evidence about him to form my opinion, however what we see of him now would prove that Madara could beat Jiraiya so that wasn't really a good example for you to use in this situation, I understand what you're saying though.

However there was nothing that was stated about Hiruzen the suggested any specific skill set to abide by.

"God of Shinobi" For what?

"Strongest Hokage" How was he the strongest?

Master of all jutsu in Konoha durin ghis time- well what skills were of his prime time?

Do you see what I'm getting at? I suppose what I'm saying is when it comes to hype, Hiruzen's is too vauge on details. With Madara we knew him as the strongest Uchiha, who had EMS and controled the Kyuubi. See we had details concerning what Madara did, or may have did that allowed us to follow. Hiruzen was stated as the greatest Kage and to be God of shinobi but we don't have much of an idea of his skills outside what we've seen. If you say he's mastered all jutsu in his village during his prime then we need to know what jutsu existed during his prime. If you call him a god, we need to know why he's a god. No indication is given other then his fight with Orochimaru. Nobody is speculating in the manga, everybody in the manga has details more or less but they refuse to share (ass-holes). Do you get where I'm coming from?

 

[JiraiyaTheToad Sage]

first of there has to be conditiones in all of the battle in the narutoverse. Like which Hiruzen are you talking about? Prime or his condition that we seen him fight Oro in? Prime I would have to say Hiruzen, old I have to go with Jiraiya. screw it, Jiraiya wins either way, just because I'm a Jiraiya fanboy. Mauhaha.........

 

[Red Slayer]

J man will win

 

[-Vegeta-]

Dumb logic..
So You look at The elders saying this

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And also chiyo saying Sandaime was the strongest kazekage....

And you'd still say Gaara> sandaime?....

Or

if feats > Hype
Ten ten > izuna?

lee> Tobriama?

.... -_-

Do you really think I care what you think? Saying Hiruzen wins because he's the god of shinobi is fail logic as well. He's shown nothing in his prime. He's nothing but baseless hype and I don't pick battles based on hype.

 

[Hei]

l man will lose bcz hiruzen was called the strongest hokage ever so in his prime he can beat jman