Hiruzen knows and can perform all Konoha Jutsu's

[Omnipotent]

Come on, I was hoping for manga pages that showed him using at least one .

Or maybe him incorporating an elemental nature into a jutsu...

OT: This changes nothing, if you are correct that is, because even with his vast knowledge, he admitted that he was inferior to Orochimaru:

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Furthermore, this disproves the elemental ninjutsu part...:

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Even more, mastery over ninjutsu does not equate to power:

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[Owarij]

Omni , sorry but you failed

1) He said most likely even me.. meaning he's doubtful that in his old age he could take him... he wasn't sure... do note the key words OLD age... It would be stupid to say oro is better than hiruzen when you're comparing the old version of hiruzen who retired himself and was put back in charge because minato died...

You wouldn't look at the old wrinkled madara and say konohamaru is stronger than him because madara can barely move.. wouldn't you?

Mastery of ninjutsu doesn't equate to power , yup true, he was trying to tell oro that.. simply because that's not all there is to it.. Hiruzen has all categories covered... ninjutsu, taijutsu, genjtusu , will to never give up, something to protect..

The entire notion of true strength lying in protecting someone or something you care about shouldn't even be used in a debate as it's more of a philosophy..

question, where'd you get that scan?

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This is more similar to what the viz has to say if i recall

 

[startup97]

Omni , sorry but you failed

1) He said most likely even me.. meaning he's doubtful that in his old age he could take him... he wasn't sure... do note the key words OLD age... It would be stupid to say oro is better than hiruzen when you're comparing the old version of hiruzen who retired himself and was put back in charge because minato died...

You wouldn't look at the old wrinkled madara and say konohamaru is stronger than him because madara can barely move.. wouldn't you?

Mastery of ninjutsu doesn't equate to power , yup true, he was trying to tell oro that.. simply because that's not all there is to it.. Hiruzen has all categories covered... ninjutsu, taijutsu, genjtusu , will to never give up, something to protect..

The entire notion of true strength lying in protecting someone or something you care about shouldn't even be used in a debate as it's more of a philosophy..

question, where'd you get that scan?

You must be registered for see images

This is more similar to what the viz has to say if i recall

Rock on Owarij!!!!

 

[Sir Blades]

Totally agree.

 

[ThomasJeffersonwasasadist]

he knew anything that was possible for him to know so no sharingan or other kekkai genkai. is it stated anywhere that a ninja with sufficient skill time put into study can't learn every element. its called elemental affinity so those elements come easy but maybe a great enough ninja can learn some thing else. and whoever said kakashi knew more is incorrect he copied more he needs to see it happening to use it or he has to have the affinity he hasn't had enough time to get beyond the limits of elemental affinity

 

[Omnipotent]

Omni , sorry but you failed

1) He said most likely even me.. meaning he's doubtful that in his old age he could take him... he wasn't sure... do note the key words OLD age... It would be stupid to say oro is better than hiruzen when you're comparing the old version of hiruzen who retired himself and was put back in charge because minato died...

You wouldn't look at the old wrinkled madara and say konohamaru is stronger than him because madara can barely move.. wouldn't you?

Mastery of ninjutsu doesn't equate to power , yup true, he was trying to tell oro that.. simply because that's not all there is to it.. Hiruzen has all categories covered... ninjutsu, taijutsu, genjtusu , will to never give up, something to protect..

The entire notion of true strength lying in protecting someone or something you care about shouldn't even be used in a debate as it's more of a philosophy..

question, where'd you get that scan?

You must be registered for see images

This is more similar to what the viz has to say if i recall

Nevermind...
*********** scan though.

 

[Owarij]

Nevermind...
*********** scan though.

Lol yeaa. according to the databook and other scanlations, you can have 5 elements , it would just take really long to achieve.. most ninja probably won't be able to achieve the feat in one lifetime, unless you're a genius or something..

Naruto with his multiple shadow clone method + kurama giving him chakra would easily be able to master all elements

The thing is, nagato did this without anyone's help, normally a ninja shouldn't be able to grow like that without help, The rinnegan made everything easy for nagato

 

[Omnipotent]

Lol yeaa. according to the databook and other scanlations, you can have 5 elements , it would just take really long to achieve.. most ninja probably won't be able to achieve the feat in one lifetime, unless you're a genius or something..

Naruto with his multiple shadow clone method + kurama giving him chakra would easily be able to master all elements

The thing is, nagato did this without anyone's help, normally a ninja shouldn't be able to grow like that without help, The rinnegan made everything easy for nagato

I still remember somewhere (I think in the databook) it's stated that Hiruzen said that even with all of his knowledge it still wouldn't be good enough for Orochimaru's talent. Too tired to find it.

It's a shame that how useful shadow clones were never introduced in Part 1. I don't believe that Naruto would even need Kurama's aid, I mean he already has that Uzumaki stamina going for him.

But the rinnegan also made everything hard for Nagato. I doubt Akatsuki would have even became a powerful organization had it not been for Nagato, and maybe Yahiko might not have died had it not been for that.

 

[Owarij]

I still remember somewhere (I think in the databook) it's stated that Hiruzen said that even with all of his knowledge it still wouldn't be good enough for Orochimaru's talent. Too tired to find it.

Yea, i know what you're talking about, can't recall exactly, i'll go find it

 

[Sage OfThe 6 Paths]

major rep

 

[Omnipotent]

Yea, i know what you're talking about, can't recall exactly, i'll go find it

Found it:

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[Owarij]

the manga really hypes oro as being strong, even without edo tensei, shame we only got to see like 1 wind jutsu before he got all his abiltiies sealed away

 

[Omnipotent]

the manga really hypes oro as being strong, even without edo tensei, shame we only got to see like 1 wind jutsu before he got all his abiltiies sealed away

I was thinking about making a thread whether Orochimaru, Danzo, or Asuma would have been best for Naruto to learn futon under (under the assumptions that Danzo and Orochimaru don't try anything).

I'd say Danzo.

 

[Sarutobie]

Well I think hiruzen KNEW all existing konoha techniques(this includes kkg,secret clan techs) and thus had counters for most of them(incase of a coup from any of the clans)..but he only mastered native jutsus particular to konoha..the same way mei,kisame and zabuza can use hidden mist jutsu to hide their whereabout..the same way mei and zabuza can use water dragon..kakashi had to copy it from the mist shinobi..the same way jiraiya,naruto,kakashi,konohamaru(a kid from the sarutobi clan) and minato used rasengan..who says hiruzen can't?..the same way tobirama,minato,genma and co used spacetime jutsus..the same way hiruzen,jiraiya,naruto,konohamaru used kage bunshin(have you noticd that no akatsuki member used shadow clone?).deathgod seal used by minato and later by hiruzen...I can go on and on..these are native konoha jutsus almost anyone with a good amount of talent and will can master..hiruzen as a 2 time hokage had the luxury of having those secret konoha jutsus in his private room..and as a genius,mastering most of them won't be a problem seeing as a not so talented naruto grabbed the concept of ONE forbidden tech in minutes.

 

[-Raviel-]

Yeah? well tough shit because he's dead

 

[Waltz]

Well I think hiruzen KNEW all existing konoha techniques(this includes kkg,secret clan techs) and thus had counters for most of them(incase of a coup from any of the clans)..but he only mastered native jutsus particular to konoha..the same way mei,kisame and zabuza can use hidden mist jutsu to hide their whereabout..the same way mei and zabuza can use water dragon..kakashi had to copy it from the mist shinobi..the same way jiraiya,naruto,kakashi,konohamaru(a kid from the sarutobi clan) and minato used rasengan..who says hiruzen can't?..the same way tobirama,minato,genma and co used spacetime jutsus..the same way hiruzen,jiraiya,naruto,konohamaru used kage bunshin(have you noticd that no akatsuki member used shadow clone?).deathgod seal used by minato and later by hiruzen...I can go on and on..these are native konoha jutsus almost anyone with a good amount of talent and will can master..hiruzen as a 2 time hokage had the luxury of having those secret konoha jutsus in his private room..and as a genius,mastering most of them won't be a problem seeing as a not so talented naruto grabbed the concept of ONE forbidden tech in minutes.

1) KKG and secret clan tech's can't be mastered unless you have the same bloodline/natural associate of the specified clan, which is why KKG's are referred to as Bloodline limit techniques.

2) Hiruzen couldn't use Rasengan. It was minato's technique and is not listed as a jutsu in his aresenal. The manga has never given the slightest of implication that Hiruzen knew Rasengan.

3) Pertaining to DDS. Hiruzen knew and saw the hand seals for it when Minato used it against the kyuubi. It can only imply that Minato thought him the technique. When he use the technique he also attributed it to the fourth.

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4) Your misunderstanding Blaze's point. He's not referring to every jutsu that exists/existed in the leaf...he's referring to justu associated to konoha/konoha's jutsu that are passed down Ancestrally.

 

[MangekyouJ]

what facts u mean ?
anyway.
kakashi mastered more than 1000 jutsu and this is fact ..
i don't think 3rd hokage knows that amoung of jutsu ..

Wrong...It's said that Kakashi copied more than 1000 jutsu's....mastering and copying are 2 DIFFERENT things....And all due to his sharingan...and to prove it. Kakashi natural affinity is electricity, he learned the another element which was Earth. Through his Sharingan and ONLY through his sharingan was he able to copy The Water style- Water dragon jutsu and Fire style Grand Fireball techniques....he copied them....never mastered them. To master something means you do the study of that technique over and over again until it's perfect....like Naruto MASTERED the Rasengan...Again, copying and mastering are 2 different things you need to know the difference of...

 

[spatha]

well, very well cited but id still believe there are several techniques he would not be able to perform. Of course the sharingan genjutsu are out of his reach, and unless there was info statin it we can assume he could not perform the various bug techs simply because it had been stated that a special contract was signed between that clan and the bugs and no one else. Another would be the gentle fist techniques of the hyuga and i say this because another databook clearly explained that it was created by the hyuga because their byakugan was able to see the chakra paths of any person maning they alone would have the precision to perform the moves successfully. Shadow possession techs are iffy since i dont recall seeing anyone but shikamarus clan using it, however it wasn't clearly stated if it was some blood limit or ritual that dubbed them with it or whatever you can concoct. The expansion though, i could see him doing since just about everything to do with chojis clan incorporated food pills so feesibly hiruzen could use them to achieve similar effects.

 

[Scryed]

It wouldn't make sense for him to be able to use specific clan-based techniques like Amaterasu, Mokuton, and Izanagi.

So yeah, what you said does make alot more sense. Though I would have liked for it to be better explained in the manga.

 

[Kaneki Kun]

Clearly states it in the manga that he know 1,000 techs no need to make a thread of the obvious relation. Still doesnt matter to me. He can learn over 3,000 and I still wont care. Like Bruce Lee once said "“I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.” Hashirama>Hiruzen