Hiashi vs Tsunade

Slug Princess Tsunade · Dec 20, 2012

Hyuuga Neji 18 said:
my tio 5 fav charachters:
1)Oro
2)Neji
3)Itachi
4)Minato
5)Lee

i am oro's fan

Ok

My top:

Tsunade, Orochimaru, Jiraiya
Sakura
Sasuke
Gaara

Red Slayer · Dec 20, 2012

Sannin are equal ?

Tazzilla88 · Dec 20, 2012

Bogard said:
True, she can create crater but that is called fighting with intelligence. It doesn't change the fact that her main taijutsu is still linear. She did that only one time during the entire manga and that was against a genin who was still learning to form a rasengan correctly. Against Orochimaru she attacked him directly in taijutsu. The same goes against Pain were she wanted to attack them directly but was surpassed in speed by Asura. The same goes against Madara were she attacked him directly despite him having Susanoo

Striking the ground randomly doesn't have a great impact in battle. I think every fast opponent could dodge these kind of attacks. The time she takes to punch the ground, it's clearly noticeable and dodgeable for someone with decent speed exactly like Kabuto
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and he even got time
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and
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, especially if we talk about a taijutsu specialist with Byakugan to sense all incoming attacks around him, who can even detect
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. On the other hand, Tsunade would have a hard time to dodge
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since it's air pressure difficult to see or predict and its power is so great that it was even able to push something as huge as a Tailed beast. Tsunade would receive damage of the attack. She could even be killed by this attack since if it's able to push back something as huge as a tailed beast, plus the fact it destroys internal targets, it can easily kill normal humans

I notice that you like to compare Tsunade to genin Naruto as if he was a reference in speed or something like this. He was too inexperimented and slow at that moment. I can show you some pics where he was totally blitzed by a Kakashi here(he didn't even have time to react when he was far from him from the start):

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Like when he was reading his book and not even paying attention to him at all

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Like when he had time to switch himself with naruto's clone without he even got time to notice until it was too late:

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Kabuto was totally playing with him and his kage bunshins as if they were not even existing

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Kabuto said he was too slow, had time to dodge his rasengan and cut his femur bone:

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It's why i don't understand why you show feats against an experimented and a slow genin like Naruto to compare to elite ninjas like Hiashi and so on. They are in complete different levels

I don't know why you show this to me either. I don't see where it help in this fight. Gentle fist can stop chakra to flow in the body. She needs chakra to use her medical ninjutsus. That is why it's useless from the moment she got stopped by gentle fist in taijutsu

Of course they are different since a tail is much more powerful than a normal hand. Concerning hakke kuhekishou the description comes from databook. I can show you if you want. This is it:

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"Taking aim at the enemy's vitals and releasing an ultrahigh-speed palm thrust!!

A "vacuum shell" compressed using the "Gentle Fist" is shot out at the enemy's vitals under tremendous pressure!! A short to mid-range attack that more than covers the weakness of taijutsu"

And this is Neji's version which is fodder level compared to Hiashi's

Well, even if she summons katsuyu, what stops Hiashi from attacking her directly. Why will he attack Katsuyu instead if he sees he can't kill katsuyu? And it's even doubtful if the vacuum can't have a great impact even on katsuyu if it's able to stop even Juubi's tail which is almost as big if not bigger than Katsuyu and like i've said, it attacks internal organs

I don't understand something. So your saying that Tsunade will summon katsuyu and attack Hiashi at the same time? I thought you would have said she will only let katsuyu attack while she is hiding. If she attacks directly, she should be in danger because of gentle fist style and the vacuum(which attacks from far distance). Again, this attack was able to push back even the Juubi's tail. It could be easy for him to attack Tsunade from that distance and it would stop her chakra networks and make Byakuyou ineffectiv. Katsuyu acid is useless against the rotation or chakra barrier. Even if he is smh surprised by the attack, we've seen it's easy for a byakugan user to liberate his quantity of chakra rapidely from every part of his body, create the rotation and deliver the damage. Tsunade would struggle if she gets hit by that and he proceeds to use the 64palms to finish her

As much as you'd not to prefer to acknowledge Tsunade acts in the method she deems best at the moment.

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. So the style of attacking I suggested was not the best way to attack Orochimaru and Madara, not even Kabuto. Hitting the pressure points of a regenerating corpse isn't very helpful. And when you have a hangover, your unrested, and your out of practice I somehow doubt your at your peak performance. However, we know what is apart of Tsunade's repetoir and considering the relatively few battle's we've seen her in your claim that she did it one fight is a bit ridiculous. Against how many opponents did Hiashi use Hakke Kuhekishou? Exactly. And to address the speed feat thing. Did you observe Tsunade pickpocketing him, did Jiraiya or Shizune show any sign of them noticing her pickpocketing Naruto? No? Why because it was done to quickly to be shone to us, and for Jiraiya and Shizune to notice.
Also the Naruto that Tsunade was going up against was essentially chunnin powerlevel after defeating Neji. If you recall. Which is a dramatically different Naruto than Kakashi fought with during the bell test. That Naruto would have been torn to shreds by Neji. While Naruto and Hiashi are on different levels the point remains the same that she has on numerous occassion acted in very quick manners and regardless of who her opponent is a quick action is a quick action. The opponent doesn't change that fact. The databook page you are referencing says the consequences of the vaccum palm is "The targeted enemy will be blown off their feet before they can even notice the impact." not chakra points will be closed. In that way it is only a fuuton that is target at a specific point. There is no indication that it works in the same way as regular gentle fist techniques. I.e. damaging vital organs and closing chakra networks. Which means that it will work as pushing based fuuton again Katsuyu at which point Katsuyu just continues to attack. And why continue to fight Katsuyu? Because he has no choice. She can divide into thousands of herself and each on is capable of attacking. And Katsuyu obviously isn't that slow if she can completely absorb people without them even noticing. So she could put so much pressure on Hiashi that going against Katsuyu alone would pose enough problems. Hell, Katsuyu would literally solo Hiashi. My argument is that Tsunade would allow Katsuyu to wear down Hiashi, while attack from afar with projectiles and shockwaves in order to aid in wearing down Hiashi's chakra reserves. And his reserves have been sufficiently depleted she could move in and engage in CQC. And because one touch from her instantly spells doom for Hiashi. And he's yet to have been able to shut down her chakra network but medical ninjutsu and Body Pathway are still options. And she could still strike vital points. or use her monstrous strength.

Slug Princess Tsunade · Dec 20, 2012

Hyuuga Neji 18 said:
Sannin are equal ?

Yeah

I like them.

Bogard · Dec 20, 2012

Tazzilla88 said:
So the style of attacking I suggested was not the best way to attack Orochimaru and Madara, not even Kabuto. Hitting the pressure points of a regenerating corpse isn't very helpful. And when you have a hangover, your unrested, and your out of practice I somehow doubt your at your peak performance.

And what makes you believe that current Tsunade has change that much? For Tsunade's condition to change, she must be the one in charge of some missions regularly. But as a hokage, i don't think she is allowed to participate in missions. On the contrary, instead she is only there to take care of administrativ things concerning villages, alliance with other villages and so on. So what makes you think she was constantly training after the fight against Kabuto so that she changed dramatically?

However, we know what is apart of Tsunade's repetoir and considering the relatively few battle's we've seen her in your claim that she did it one fight is a bit ridiculous. Against how many opponents did Hiashi use Hakke Kuhekishou? Exactly.

I'm only saying that i want to see Tsunade actually fighting this way against a high level opponent, not against a genin who was still in a learning phase(learning rasengan). I've already shown you that decent fast ninjas like Kabuto are easily able to see and dodge her punches, so an expert in taijutsu using Byakugan like Hiashi would be able to prevent and dodge it without problems

And to address the speed feat thing. Did you observe Tsunade pickpocketing him, did Jiraiya or Shizune show any sign of them noticing her pickpocketing Naruto? No? Why because it was done to quickly to be shone to us, and for Jiraiya and Shizune to notice.

Or simply because they didn't care at all? If they really cared, they would have been surprised or would have shown a surprising face when Tsunade gave him that back

Also the Naruto that Tsunade was going up against was essentially chunnin powerlevel after defeating Neji. If you recall. Which is a dramatically different Naruto than Kakashi fought with during the bell test.

The point is not to know if Naruto was stronger or not, but to show you that the comparison is not even worthy of discussing. I still wait Tsunade to show speed feats against a mid-high level ninja to actually acknowledge her as a fast ninja. It's as if you were saying that a genin ninja can speed blitz a civilian. Of course he can, simply because ninjas moves are too fast for normal human to be able to follow. Tsunade has never be considered as a fast ninja in this manga and even databook shows it. It's why she has 3/5 in speed. Even if Tsunade is faster than Naruto or someone else, what you fail to realise is that in this thread, he is facing a faster opponent than she is and a better taijutsu user than she is, using the worse style taijutsu that she could like to face. That's another reason why i don't really understand why you show me those pic where she is pic-pocketting Naruto, since it won't have a great impact in this battle

The databook page you are referencing says the consequences of the vaccum palm is "The targeted enemy will be blown off their feet before they can even notice the impact." not chakra points will be closed. In that way it is only a fuuton that is target at a specific point.

You got a point here, but you must realise that it's Neji's version that does that, only because his version only operate on a weaker scale. It's for that reason that it only shakes the opponent's vitals and thus blow them on their feet. But Hiashi's version can do

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. It's much more powerful than

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, where you barely even notice the pressure of the jutsu. Judging by the power and impact Hiashi's vacuum had on Juubi's tail(equivalent to a Tailed Beast in size), i think it can normally kill normal humans. The combo of internal shaking damage and external damage would surely put Tsunade in difficulties. Even if she smh manages to survive the attack, she would surely struggle, and Hiashi could continue with his Eight Trigram 64 palms and finish the fight. It's an impressiv and interessant move to use in this type of situation

And why continue to fight Katsuyu? Because he has no choice. She can divide into thousands of herself and each on is capable of attacking.

Can you show me a pic where katsuyu is capable of attacking while dividing itself? Also, in a way, Katsuyu is very similar to Nagato's cerberus summoning, and Nagato himself implies that the only way to beat it is to attack the summoner. Do you really think that Hiashi would be stupid enough to fight Katsuyu all the time if he realises he can't kill it or it's wasting his time? No, he will do like when you fight Cerberus. You attack the summoner

Tazzilla88 · Dec 20, 2012

Bogard said:
And what makes you believe that current Tsunade has change that much? For Tsunade's condition to change, she must be the one in charge of some missions regularly. But as a hokage, i don't think she is allowed to participate in missions. On the contrary, instead she is only there to take care of administrativ things concerning villages, alliance with other villages and so on. So what makes you think she was constantly training after the fight against Kabuto so that she changed dramatically?

I'm only saying that i want to see Tsunade actually fighting this way against a high level opponent, not against a genin who was still in a learning phase(learning rasengan). I've already shown you that decent fast ninjas like Kabuto are easily able to see and dodge her punches, so an expert in taijutsu using Byakugan like Hiashi would be able to prevent and dodge it without problems

Or simply because they didn't care at all? If they really cared, they would have been surprised or would have shown a surprising face when Tsunade gave him that back

The point is not to know if Naruto was stronger or not, but to show you that the comparison is not even worthy of discussing. I still wait Tsunade to show speed feats against a mid-high level ninja to actually acknowledge her as a fast ninja. It's as if you were saying that a genin ninja can speed blitz a civilian. Of course he can, simply because ninjas moves are too fast for normal human to be able to follow. Tsunade has never be considered as a fast ninja in this manga and even databook shows it. It's why she has 3/5 in speed. Even if Tsunade is faster than Naruto or someone else, what you fail to realise is that in this thread, he is facing a faster opponent than she is and a better taijutsu user than she is, using the worse style taijutsu that she could like to face. That's another reason why i don't really understand why you show me those pic where she is pic-pocketting Naruto, since it won't have a great impact in this battle

You got a point here, but you must realise that it's Neji's version that does that, only because his version only operate on a weaker scale. It's for that reason that it only shakes the opponent's vitals and thus blow them on their feet. But Hiashi's version can do
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. It's much more powerful than
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, where you barely even notice the pressure of the jutsu. Judging by the power and impact Hiashi's vacuum had on Juubi's tail(equivalent to a Tailed Beast in size), i think it can normally kill normal humans. The combo of internal shaking damage and external damage would surely put Tsunade in difficulties. Even if she smh manages to survive the attack, she would surely struggle, and Hiashi could continue with his Eight Trigram 64 palms and finish the fight. It's an impressiv and interessant move to use in this type of situation

Can you show me a pic where katsuyu is capable of attacking while dividing itself? Also, in a way, Katsuyu is very similar to Nagato's cerberus summoning, and Nagato himself implies that the only way to beat it is to attack the summoner. Do you really think that Hiashi would be stupid enough to fight Katsuyu all the time if he realises he can't kill it or it's wasting his time? No, he will do like when you fight Cerberus. You attack the summoner

The change in attitude is what would suggest Tsunade has decided to get back in shape. When she met Naruto she was apathetic. Not so now. In addition if you compare her performance in the Madara fight to her performance against Orochimaru there is a vast improvement in the conservation of chakra. She's also taken on another student which forced her to be active.

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Jiraiya and Shizune may not have cared but I'm pretty sure Shizune would have tried to scold Tsunade if she'd seen her stealing from a 12 year old. I can understand you wanting to see Tsunade using that method of fighting against top tier opponents, but Kishi hasn't placed against an opponent where that fighting style would be the most advantageous method. Speed feats?Tsunade's Speed and Reflexes:

Most people think that Tsunade is slow and sluggish. In fact, people often think her affinity to slugs make her slow. They bring in databook numbers to say that she is slow. So I will actually bring her feats into play here.
when Tsunade shoves Gamabunta's sword into Manda's mouth I'd call that a speed of feat. Thinking Logically about the feat Manda went underground and blitzed Gamabunta. Neither Gamabunta nor Jiraiya had time to react. It would make no logical sense for Tsunade to be in the air with the sword with no target as she has not the ability to hover. Therefore, she must have jumped and reacted after Manda appeared above ground and managed to attack him with such accuracy coming from off panel.

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When Tsunade threw herself in front of Orochimaru's blade that was a feat of speed . And considering Jiraiya was only able to to form a single handseal before Oro's blade struck Tsunade and no one even thought it was capable to get in the way judging by their shocked faces yet Tsunade did.

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And when Tsunade attacked Orochimaru I'd consider that a feat of speed considering Orochimaru was paying close enough attention to her he could tell her trembling had stopped yet he was completely unprepared for Tsunade's kick.

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When Madara was attacking the 5 kage with his Katon none of the kages were able to react in time not even A. Yet Tsunade not only saw the attack but was able to respond as well. You may argue that they didn't respond because Mei was suppose to stop the Katon. And that is true however, Tsunade was able to realize before anyone else that Mei was unable to stop it and reacted under the impression that the other kages wouldn't be able to respond in time.

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When Tsunade blitzed Shizune, Shizune had no way of reacting in fact she was completely caught off guard.

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And Tsunade was able to use her speed to avoid Naruto's attacks without much effort.

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And Tsunade literally blitzed Kabuto in the time it took to push up his glasses.

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She was also able to blitz the advisers as well

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In addition the her and A were able to completely approach Bee and Naruto in such a quick manner neither Bee nor Naruto saw it coming and had the kages wanted to they could've blitzed the jinchuurikis.

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Furthermore in the time it takes Raikage to punch in his V1 form Tsunade has already began running implying that she is not slow.

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The fact that her speed was compared to A's is a great thing. No she is not in his speed range, but being compared to the second fastest character alive would she's not slow, the same way Raikage's strength in comparison to the strongest character alive does not make him weak.

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When Kabuto was attacking Tsunade is was a fact that Tsunade had been out of battle many years. It was a fact that she had not been resting. It was also a fact that she was holding back based on her not using Katsuyu or Creation Rebirth. It is also likely that she had a hangover as she'd been drunk the night before. If you've ever had a hangover you would know that your speed, reaction time, and cognitive processes are slowed

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Even still, Tsunade was able to react very well defensively.

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And Tsunade was able to blitz Jiraiya and force Kabuto into a position in which he could not avoid taking damage and thus he had to resort to exploiting her hemophobia.

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Additionally in her fight against Madara, Madara had her taking one 5 autonomous clones of himself wrapped in Susanoo. Meaning they had the sharingan precognition and the rinnegan shared vision yet Tsunade was still able to get behind a clone and incapacitated it. And because each kage received 5 clones to fight, yet we only see four in the picture two of which are definitely left standing behind Tsunade, another is ambigously farther away either collapsed on top of a stone sharing a fate similar to the clone in front of Tsunade or unable to close the distance. We can reason that she had incapacitated at least two clones.

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We again saw Tsunade's reflexes during Madara's attack when Madara was using his perfect Susanoo Tsunade had started another jutsu.

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In addition she was able to coordinate a joint attack with Mei, A, and Oonoki when A was in his raiton armor.

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Orochimaru and Kabuto were nearly blitzed together in Tsunade's initial up front attack (in which she was still impaired by the previously mentioned factors) they narrowly escaped death.

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Tsunade also managed to blitz Madara with him being not only completely caught off guard but incapable of preparing his counter attack before Tsunade's attack landed.

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Even in a fatigued state so great that she was moments away from going into a coma she managed to beat anbu to Pein.

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And when Pein was about to attack with Asura's path Tsunade's arm had already risen, which means logically she could have simply struck the blizting Asura path. So she was a victim of plot no jutsu and fatigue

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Even when distracted and drunk, Tsunade was able to respond to what she thought was a fully powered rasengan using only one finger.

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Perhaps Hiashi's vacuum palm would kill normal humans, but certainly not a human who took three yasaka magatamas a point blank range. And if Hiashi struck her with his most powerful vacuum palm he wouldn't be able to use 8 triagrams on her as she'd be too far away.
Tsunade has only used Katsuyu in one fight thus far. And in that fight the best option was for Katsuyu to attack as alarge entity as Manda and Gamabunta were there and not just regular sized people.

Bogard · Dec 21, 2012

Tazzilla88 said:
Tsunade's Speed and Reflexes:

Most people think that Tsunade is slow and sluggish. In fact, people often think her affinity to slugs make her slow. They bring in databook numbers to say that she is slow. So I will actually bring her feats into play here.

It's one thing to show feats concerning Tsunade, but you should take into consideration the fact that everyone can bring such feats if they really want to. If i want i can show you Konohamaru's speed feats who are almost as good if not better than Tsunade's. It's for those reasons that involving databook is sometimes important

when Tsunade shoves Gamabunta's sword into Manda's mouth I'd call that a speed of feat. Thinking Logically about the feat Manda went underground and blitzed Gamabunta. Neither Gamabunta nor Jiraiya had time to react. It would make no logical sense for Tsunade to be in the air with the sword with no target as she has not the ability to hover. Therefore, she must have jumped and reacted after Manda appeared above ground and managed to attack him with such accuracy coming from off panel.

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They were simply covering each other. You forget to mention that not even a moment before, Tsunade had no reaction here and got saved by Jiraya and Gamabunta:

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On this pic, Jiraya even tells Tsunade to get out of the way, which means that Tsunade couldn't escape in time. And that's why Jiraya needed to interven:

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After that Gamabunta and Jiraya had a fight against Manda and Orochimaru and it's during their fight that Tsunade got the time to do what you said. So it's not as if she blitzed them, but she act as a support to Jiraya in a 2vs1 against Orochimaru

When Tsunade threw herself in front of Orochimaru's blade that was a feat of speed .

She was near Naruto when Orochimaru was far from him from the start. She had enough time to put herself between them. I don't see what is the speed feat here. These are type of things we see regularly in this manga. Even in the recent chapter, Neji did something similar to protect Hinata and Naruto and he was far from them from the start in the contrary of Tsunade

And considering Jiraiya was only able to to form a single handseal before Oro's blade struck Tsunade and no one even thought it was capable to get in the way judging by their shocked faces yet Tsunade did.

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Again, Tsunade was closer from the action than Jiraya. Notice that Jiraya says that there is no time. It's not that he could only make one handseal, but it's that he noticed that from that distance, it was not possible to use a long range jutsu to save them in time

And when Tsunade attacked Orochimaru I'd consider that a feat of speed considering Orochimaru was paying close enough attention to her he could tell her trembling had stopped yet he was completely unprepared for Tsunade's kick.

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Orochimaru was simply overconfident on this pic. He never thought Tsunade could have attacked him until it was too late.

When Madara was attacking the 5 kage with his Katon none of the kages were able to react in time not even A. Yet Tsunade not only saw the attack but was able to respond as well. You may argue that they didn't respond because Mei was suppose to stop the Katon. And that is true however, Tsunade was able to realize before anyone else that Mei was unable to stop it and reacted under the impression that the other kages wouldn't be able to respond in time.

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That reaction was impressiv indeed, i give you that, but you must also take into consideration the fact that no one(Kages or Madara) showed a sign of surprise when she did that, but true i can't deny the fact it was impressiv

When Tsunade blitzed Shizune, Shizune had no way of reacting in fact she was completely caught off guard.

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Well, if a surprise attack for you is a speed feat, i don't know where we are going here. They were not even fighting to consider this as a speed feat. Shizune wasn't in a position to defend herself correctly. I can compare this action to what Naruto did to his father when he met him against Pain. It has nothing to do with speed

I've already discussed concerning her feats against Naruto, and i don't understand what you mean by speed feat concerning the rest of the post tbh. It seems that you make no difference between a basic punch Raikage can give and movement speed for example. That's why i didn't want to enter into that kind of discussion

My problem with Tsunade will always be the same. In all the fights i've seen her fighting, she is always the one who gets stabbed the most. Even in the current fight against Madara, she was the only Kage who got stabbed multiple times by Susanoo blades. Another thing is that i've never seen someone complimenting Tsunade for her speed in the entire manga. It's in those things that we can know which ninja is fast or not. For example, guys like Sasuke, Kakashi, Minato, A, Itachi are the one who are most of the time complimented for their speed. Gai, Bee are also complimented for such things. Hyuga are complimented for their reflexes, their Byakugan, their Taijutsu.

The domain where Tsunade is most of the time complimented is not speed, but medical ninjutsu. Madara said she was weak when he was fighting Kages, and her reply was using Byakuyou, because it's the domain where she exceeds the most, gaining a immortal-like body to be able to compete with top-tier levels. It's her trump card along with her incredible strength

So how can i consider Tsunade as a top tier in speed if manga show that it doesn't go that way? She may be fast against normal ninjas, but what Tsunade fans hardly want to admit is that there are plenty of ninjas faster than her, and that she is not described as a fast ninja in this manga. That doesn't make her weak at all. I don't know why, but it seems that when people say that Tsunade is not a fast ninja, people think it means she is weak. No, speed is not the only thing important in this manga. Her Byakuyou alone put her on a higher level than most ninjas, but what you must understand is that Tsunade is not forced to be strong in every domains

Horus · Dec 22, 2012

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Bogard · Dec 22, 2012

JTO said:
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Haha is it your thread? It seems that Hiashi took the lead here

Horus · Dec 22, 2012

Bogard said:
Haha is it your thread? It seems that Hiashi took the lead here

No its a thread that I find Incredible, i mean these people have great debating skills.

Bogard · Dec 22, 2012

JTO said:
No its a thread that I find Incredible, i mean these people have great debating skills.

Ah ok, maybe i must try to go and debate there then

Horus · Dec 22, 2012

Bogard said:
Ah ok, maybe i must try to go and debate there then

Yup, the reason i dont go on that site is because its slow and takes long to load

Bogard · Dec 22, 2012

JTO said:
Yup, the reason i dont go on that site is because its slow and takes long to load

Slow? How so? I just connected myself there without problems. Or maybe it's a connection problem?

Horus · Dec 22, 2012

Bogard said:
Slow? How so? I just connected myself there without problems. Or maybe it's a connection problem?

probably, but its Slow compared to Narutobase

TheEvilOne · May 6, 2013

Tsunade stomps...

Joshutsu · May 6, 2013

Tsunade starts off by shattering playing field to slow him down more, I don't think he is faster than her to be hitting her without her being able to dodge. He can't afford to rotate her Acid away with fear of her opening a fissure and when heavenly kick of pain.

Byakugan can see alot of things but its not always able to stop it, or neji would not be dead. Also we don't know if byakugou heals the chakara network in its process i won't say it can unless i see it. Tsunade doesnt chakara enhance her strength generally so I doubt she would be useless without being able to mould her chakara seeing as she hardly relies on it.

Katsuya also can engulf him he can't really target any chakara points of that slug.

Tazzilla88 · May 7, 2013

SNK said:
It's one thing to show feats concerning Tsunade, but you should take into consideration the fact that everyone can bring such feats if they really want to. If i want i can show you Konohamaru's speed feats who are almost as good if not better than Tsunade's. It's for those reasons that involving databook is sometimes important

They were simply covering each other. You forget to mention that not even a moment before, Tsunade had no reaction here and got saved by Jiraya and Gamabunta:

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On this pic, Jiraya even tells Tsunade to get out of the way, which means that Tsunade couldn't escape in time. And that's why Jiraya needed to interven:

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After that Gamabunta and Jiraya had a fight against Manda and Orochimaru and it's during their fight that Tsunade got the time to do what you said. So it's not as if she blitzed them, but she act as a support to Jiraya in a 2vs1 against Orochimaru

She was near Naruto when Orochimaru was far from him from the start. She had enough time to put herself between them. I don't see what is the speed feat here. These are type of things we see regularly in this manga. Even in the recent chapter, Neji did something similar to protect Hinata and Naruto and he was far from them from the start in the contrary of Tsunade

Again, Tsunade was closer from the action than Jiraya. Notice that Jiraya says that there is no time. It's not that he could only make one handseal, but it's that he noticed that from that distance, it was not possible to use a long range jutsu to save them in time

Orochimaru was simply overconfident on this pic. He never thought Tsunade could have attacked him until it was too late.

That reaction was impressiv indeed, i give you that, but you must also take into consideration the fact that no one(Kages or Madara) showed a sign of surprise when she did that, but true i can't deny the fact it was impressiv

Well, if a surprise attack for you is a speed feat, i don't know where we are going here. They were not even fighting to consider this as a speed feat. Shizune wasn't in a position to defend herself correctly. I can compare this action to what Naruto did to his father when he met him against Pain. It has nothing to do with speed

I've already discussed concerning her feats against Naruto, and i don't understand what you mean by speed feat concerning the rest of the post tbh. It seems that you make no difference between a basic punch Raikage can give and movement speed for example. That's why i didn't want to enter into that kind of discussion

My problem with Tsunade will always be the same. In all the fights i've seen her fighting, she is always the one who gets stabbed the most. Even in the current fight against Madara, she was the only Kage who got stabbed multiple times by Susanoo blades. Another thing is that i've never seen someone complimenting Tsunade for her speed in the entire manga. It's in those things that we can know which ninja is fast or not. For example, guys like Sasuke, Kakashi, Minato, A, Itachi are the one who are most of the time complimented for their speed. Gai, Bee are also complimented for such things. Hyuga are complimented for their reflexes, their Byakugan, their Taijutsu.

The domain where Tsunade is most of the time complimented is not speed, but medical ninjutsu. Madara said she was weak when he was fighting Kages, and her reply was using Byakuyou, because it's the domain where she exceeds the most, gaining a immortal-like body to be able to compete with top-tier levels. It's her trump card along with her incredible strength

So how can i consider Tsunade as a top tier in speed if manga show that it doesn't go that way? She may be fast against normal ninjas, but what Tsunade fans hardly want to admit is that there are plenty of ninjas faster than her, and that she is not described as a fast ninja in this manga. That doesn't make her weak at all. I don't know why, but it seems that when people say that Tsunade is not a fast ninja, people think it means she is weak. No, speed is not the only thing important in this manga. Her Byakuyou alone put her on a higher level than most ninjas, but what you must understand is that Tsunade is not forced to be strong in every domains

A few things, Tsunade's speed feats as a culmulative show that she is speedy, not a speedster such as Gated Gai or the Raikage but fast enough. The fact that she was fully aware of A's speed and still decided to go toe to toe with him says that she believes she can react.

Also Jiraiya was warning Tsunade that he was about to use a large scale attack. The fact that he told her to get out of the way, suggests she was fast enough to do so. He wanted to ensure they avoided friendly fire.

Tsunade's cardinal attributes based on her statements would be first evasiveness, followed by her medical prowess, and then her strength. That said while speed is not one of her cardinal qualities it doesn't mean she isn't quick it just means she isn't a speed demon.

There are people faster than Tsunade, but people tend to assume she's very slow and in this particular battle we have no reason to believe she'd be outclassed in speed.

Null Man · May 11, 2015

Tsunade wins.

Red Slayer · May 11, 2015

How-many-times?xDjust-get-over-it-Hiashi>>>Tsunade>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sakura!!!

RedRobin · May 11, 2015

Tsunade wins Mid diff with Katsuyu.

Hiashi has a great feat of pushing a Juubi's tail but that doesnt help him at all to put Tsunade down.

He cant do anything at all to Katsuyu.

Hiashi vs Tsunade

Who wins?

Hiashi

Tsunade

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