Hebi vs 4th Raikage

[Draegod]

Yeah, though your posts made me realize something. Raikage is underrated a lot. Both Ay and his father.

I tried to tell you since day one they are slept on!!! haha And yea it's allot o characters that are under the radar. I have a bunch of info threads on most of em i was about to or could post, but then the NB died off and I became rarely active because Of life. I might still post some of the threads or match ups when i get free time to spam. But I might waste my time with the amount of trolls or haters out there.

 

[Varrah]

Draegod, Sasuke could copy Ā’s Lightning Shushin to react to Ā; why he did not in the actually story is another matter. ​

 

[Draegod]

Draegod, Sasuke could copy Ā’s Lightning Shushin to react to Ā; why he did not in the actually story is another matter. ​

Probably because they need to know the formula, possibly have the chakra and have the body or something along them lines. Remember just because you know how to do something (like i know how to throw a perfect spiral, or kick a ball at the perfect angle for a soccer goal), but doesn't mean i have the body (or talent) to put what i know in motion. Remember He had to train super hard just to match Base lee's speed and learn a weaker version of lightning blade. Even though he been seen lee's speed etc etc but couldn't mimic it perfectly untill his body allowed him to.

 

[Kamui Sama]

I tried to tell you since day one they are slept on!!! haha And yea it's allot o characters that are under the radar. I have a bunch of info threads on most of em i was about to or could post, but then the NB died off and I became rarely active because Of life. I might still post some of the threads or match ups when i get free time to spam. But I might waste my time with the amount of trolls or haters out there.

I'd like to see these threads eventually

All the main kumo-nin are quite powerful and grossly underestimated imo U_U

I'm not much of a debater myself though haha

 

[Varrah]

Probably because they need to know the formula, possibly have the chakra and have the body or something along them lines.

Yes, correct.​

Remember just because you know how to do something (like i know how to throw a perfect spiral, or kick a ball at the perfect angle for a soccer goal), but doesn't mean i have the body (or talent) to put what i know in motion.

Is Hebi Sasuke unable to replicate Ā’s movement, or the jutsu itself? I think the answer to this is the latter question, for Sasuke’s speed during this period is one of the fastest in the manga; subsequently, if the issue is Sasuke copying Ā’s jutsu, I think this is solvable by Sasuke possessing the same chakra nature as Ā, the Sharingan, and an enhanced body given to him during his discipleship with Orochimaru.


The capabilities of the Sharingan, and the improvements he gained to his body during his discipleship with Orochimaru, should allow Sasuke to copy Ā’s lightning shushin.

Remember He had to train super hard just to match Base lee's speed and learn a weaker version of lightning blade.

We should not treat the issues the same: while Sasuke was not as trained as Lee, he still manage to perform an ability of a gated Lee; whereas in the Sasuke outlined in the thread Sasuke is trained and enhanced through drugs; thus, the instances are not comparable. (Should it be mentioned that Ā’s method of blitzing Sasuke centered around the use jutsu which can be copied, and Sasuke still

You must be registered for see links

to; the second version of Ā’s lightning shushin?)

Even though he been seen lee's speed etc etc but couldn't mimic it perfectly untill his body allowed him to.

This particularly school of thought is untrue; Sasuke copied Lee’s movement. This is proven by the curse seal reacting to Sasuke’s chakra during the preliminary matches of the chuunin exams. During Sasuke’s fight in the preliminaries match of the chuunin exams we, the readers, did not know about the gates: it was only revealed to us when Gaara fought Rock Lee. During this time, or in part I of Naruto, the curse seal reacted to any chakra Sasuke used then: the curse seal reacted violently in Sasuke’s preliminary match. Thus, we know that during Sasuke’s preliminary match in the chuunin exams it cannot have been regular Taijutsu that invoked the response of the curse seal; yet, this particular Taijutsu had Sasuke coughing

You must be registered for see links

; therefore, it had to be something using chakra.

Gai

You must be registered for see links

the Taijutsu Sasuke copied from Lee, the Kage Buyou, and part of the Omote Renge. And he called what Sasuke did, perfectly reproducing even part of that Taijutsu combination--which would normally require years of difficult training--an impossible feat even with the

You must be registered for see links

.

The Initial Gate's release of chakra would explain the Cursed Seal's violent reaction, the pain Sasuke experienced afterwards, and why he considered the technique unreliable. It would also explain why the spectators, Gai in particular, would make such a huge deal out of what Sasuke managed to accomplish there.


The Sharingan can copy anything the users wishes aside from Kekkei Genkai, Draegod; it is the fitness of the body, and the necessary chakra natures that decide the usage of the copied ability.

 

[lanakui8]

You must be registered for see images

I don't see what's wrong with what i've typed.

Just one of sasuke's C2 wings is durable enough to protect him from a nuke:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

I have no idea why it's crazy to think that Sasuke can withstand ligerbomb with 2 of his CS2 wings when the same ribcage that blocked liger bomb was implied to be incapable of withstanding

You must be registered for see links

And CS2 sasuke playing on the defensive should be able to outlast V1 Ei if he's bleeding out from a fist-sized hole in his chest.

 

[Unorthodox]

Sasuke wins all ill give my explanations also why Manda wasit brought up enough here

 

[Beans2]

Unfortunately ay has no counter to genjutsu gg

 

[Brooks]

The idea of Ei huring CS Sasuke is laughable and as lanakui8 said....CS2 Sasuke was able to take attacks with far higher DC than what Ei is capable off.

And most people seem to forget Hebi Sasuke is faster than MS Sasuke Via Senjutsu.​

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[Icelerate]

Scenario 1: Base Raikage Team Hebi wins low difficulty.
Scenario 2: Lighting Armor V1 Raikage Team Hebi wins mid difficulty.
Scenario 3: Lighting Armor V2 Raikage Ay wins mid difficulty.

Up to scenario 2, this is definitely a win for Team Hebi since we've seen Juugo able to

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

. With

You must be registered for see links

, I can see Sasuke getting the better of Ay and finishing him off from behind. Ay managed to dodge Jugo's cannon due to it having a slow and obvious prep time but a swift chidori blitz from his blind spot is not going to be as easy to dodge while Ay is focussed on Juugo.

If Ay attacks head on like he did in cannon against Sasuke, he is getting hit by chidori (

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

). He may have survived it back during the kage summit but he won't do so if Sasuke decides to go all out and attack with a

You must be registered for see links

. Orochimaru created the

You must be registered for see links

whose clan has the

You must be registered for see links

so Sasuke's CS2 form is a variant of senjutsu. Senjutsu increases the power of all ninjutsu and considering the regular chidori managed to pierce through Ay's raiton armour as well as his skin, causing him to bleed, just a little bit of extra power would have killed him because the

You must be registered for see links

. The

You must be registered for see links

, as it is a variant of senjutsu, which allows Sasuke to thrust his chidori at Ay with a higher velocity, thus no doubt penetrating all the way to his heart, killing him.

I see Draegod has brought up this

You must be registered for see links

of Sasuke allegedly not being able to react to V1 Ay which he misinterprets. First off, notice Sasuke sitting in that scan, when one is sitting, it is much harder to get up and counter attack than when one is standing. Secondly, right before that,

You must be registered for see links

by Cee's genjutsu so he had lost track of Darui and Ay, not because his sharingan and body wasn't fast enough to keep up with their speed. You might think that Sasuke's sharingan made Cee's genjutsu a non factor and that he wasn't blinded by it but this is wrong. Sasuke's sharingan managed to see through the illusion where Cee shows Ay already pounding them to their death, but Sasuke was still blinded. Against Obito and Madara, who had far superior dojutsu compared to that Sasuke,

You must be registered for see links

in order to blind them, so the blinding effect of his genjutsu works well, even against the sharingan.

Anyway that scan he brought up actually shows Suigetsu and Juugo managing to react to V1 Ay's speed and those two are slower than Sasuke, so Sasuke, being faster than his team mates, casually reacts to V1 Ay with ease, especially now that his speed and reactions are being boosted by his cursed seal. When V1 Ay used his speed to rush Jugo, Jugo managed to erect a shield to protect himself from Raikage's blitz (

You must be registered for see links

), so even Juugo reacted albiet barely. With this in mind, Hebi Sasuke should react comfortably.

As for the sharingan's critical weakness, getting behind the sharingan user and eluding their eyes tracking abilities. This would be a good counter if V1 Ay had the feats of casually running circles around shinobi with the same level of speed as Sasuke, preventing Sasuke from keeping track of Ay. The problem is that running circles around someone who is only slightly slower than you is not happening. I have no reason to believe that Ay, who likes to attack head on, is going to get behind Sasuke when it took Sasuke being stationary inside susanoo and Ay using V2 (

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

) to get behind him and fool the sharingan.

Also Sasuke can

You must be registered for see links

and also go into CS2 to

You must be registered for see links

. While wings and snakes aren't that strong compared to the durability of ribcage susanoo, those defences are a lot thicker and will reduce the momentum from Ay's hits much like

You must be registered for see links

. I see Exaar and Draegod bringing up the fact that Jugo's CS2 form is more durable than Sasuke. While this is indeed true, Sasuke's defences are also being boosted from Orochimaru's snakes and white snake healing abilities so his abilities in terms of endurance and defence is above Jugo's due to this multilayered defence. What will happen is similar to what happened when Sasuke attacked Ay and had

You must be registered for see links

, this time, it will be Ay whose hand is stuck in Sasuke's body, giving Sasuke the opportunity to hit Ay with black chidori. If Ay gets his arm free before Sasuke does that, it matters not as

You must be registered for see links

. At such close range, Ay won't have the time to accelerate to his maximum speed, allowing Sasuke to get the better of him like he canonically did.

This doesn't even account the fact that Jugo can protect Sasuke's back while Sasuke himself focusses on countering a frontal assault. Not to mention Jugo has the ability to

You must be registered for see links

, further increasing his healing abilities and defences.

 

[Bronze]

Scenario 1: Hebi Sasuke with little difficulties. The former's Raiton techniques will pierce through his durability, now that he possess no Armour. His speed isn't an issue, either. Sasuke was keeping up with V1 Ay effortlessly. And there is Kirin's fire-power.

Scenario 2: Ay mid-high difficulty. None of Sasuke's attacks will pierce him: [

You must be registered for see links

]. His signature move already failed to do so. Genjutsu won't work on Ay, since Shinobi have shown to create tactics to fight against Sharingan's illusions. Ay will pressure Sasuke until he lands a hit, and it would be KO.

Scenario 3: Ay low diff. A blitz ends it.​

 

[Sound]

First scenario if you talking about a Raikage's armour that's like taking all his techs so combined Hebi should take this.
2 & 3 Raikage effortlessly beats them.[SUB]

You must be registered for see images

[/SUB]

 

[SadSasuke]

Well people, it looks like y'all so far are voting:
Scenario 1: Hebi mid-diff
Scenario 2: Raikage extreme-high-diff
Scenario 3: Raikage mid-diff

 

[Draegod]

Scenario 1: Base Raikage Team Hebi wins low difficulty.
Scenario 2: Lighting Armor V1 Raikage Team Hebi wins mid difficulty.
Scenario 3: Lighting Armor V2 Raikage Ay wins mid difficulty.

Up to scenario 2, this is definitely a win for Team Hebi since we've seen Juugo able to

You must be registered for see links

and

You must be registered for see links

. With

You must be registered for see links

, I can see Sasuke getting the better of Ay and finishing him off from behind. Ay managed to dodge Jugo's cannon due to it having a slow and obvious prep time but a swift chidori blitz from his blind spot is not going to be as easy to dodge while Ay is focussed on Juugo.

If Ay attacks head on like he did in cannon against Sasuke, he is getting hit by chidori (

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

). He may have survived it back during the kage summit but he won't do so if Sasuke decides to go all out and attack with a

You must be registered for see links

. Orochimaru created the

You must be registered for see links

whose clan has the

You must be registered for see links

so Sasuke's CS2 form is a variant of senjutsu. Senjutsu increases the power of all ninjutsu and considering the regular chidori managed to pierce through Ay's raiton armour as well as his skin, causing him to bleed, just a little bit of extra power would have killed him because the

You must be registered for see links

. The

You must be registered for see links

, as it is a variant of senjutsu, which allows Sasuke to thrust his chidori at Ay with a higher velocity, thus no doubt penetrating all the way to his heart, killing him.

I see Draegod has brought up this

You must be registered for see links

of Sasuke allegedly not being able to react to V1 Ay which he misinterprets. First off, notice Sasuke sitting in that scan, when one is sitting, it is much harder to get up and counter attack than when one is standing. Secondly, right before that,

You must be registered for see links

by Cee's genjutsu so he had lost track of Darui and Ay, not because his sharingan and body wasn't fast enough to keep up with their speed. You might think that Sasuke's sharingan made Cee's genjutsu a non factor and that he wasn't blinded by it but this is wrong. Sasuke's sharingan managed to see through the illusion where Cee shows Ay already pounding them to their death, but Sasuke was still blinded. Against Obito and Madara, who had far superior dojutsu compared to that Sasuke,

You must be registered for see links

in order to blind them, so the blinding effect of his genjutsu works well, even against the sharingan.

Anyway that scan he brought up actually shows Suigetsu and Juugo managing to react to V1 Ay's speed and those two are slower than Sasuke, so Sasuke, being faster than his team mates, casually reacts to V1 Ay with ease, especially now that his speed and reactions are being boosted by his cursed seal. When V1 Ay used his speed to rush Jugo, Jugo managed to erect a shield to protect himself from Raikage's blitz (

You must be registered for see links

), so even Juugo reacted albiet barely. With this in mind, Hebi Sasuke should react comfortably.

As for the sharingan's critical weakness, getting behind the sharingan user and eluding their eyes tracking abilities. This would be a good counter if V1 Ay had the feats of casually running circles around shinobi with the same level of speed as Sasuke, preventing Sasuke from keeping track of Ay. The problem is that running circles around someone who is only slightly slower than you is not happening. I have no reason to believe that Ay, who likes to attack head on, is going to get behind Sasuke when it took Sasuke being stationary inside susanoo and Ay using V2 (

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

) to get behind him and fool the sharingan.

Also Sasuke can

You must be registered for see links

and also go into CS2 to

You must be registered for see links

. While wings and snakes aren't that strong compared to the durability of ribcage susanoo, those defences are a lot thicker and will reduce the momentum from Ay's hits much like

You must be registered for see links

. I see Exaar and Draegod bringing up the fact that Jugo's CS2 form is more durable than Sasuke. While this is indeed true, Sasuke's defences are also being boosted from Orochimaru's snakes and white snake healing abilities so his abilities in terms of endurance and defence is above Jugo's due to this multilayered defence. What will happen is similar to what happened when Sasuke attacked Ay and had

You must be registered for see links

, this time, it will be Ay whose hand is stuck in Sasuke's body, giving Sasuke the opportunity to hit Ay with black chidori. If Ay gets his arm free before Sasuke does that, it matters not as

You must be registered for see links

. At such close range, Ay won't have the time to accelerate to his maximum speed, allowing Sasuke to get the better of him like he canonically did.

This doesn't even account the fact that Jugo can protect Sasuke's back while Sasuke himself focusses on countering a frontal assault. Not to mention Jugo has the ability to

You must be registered for see links

, further increasing his healing abilities and defences.

I'm on my phone so I'll keep this short.

1. Cee did not use the same Jutsu on madara and obito. Fact, reread carefully..

2. Still don't know the difference between striking speed and foot speed I see. I'll break it down later since you think suigetsu them reacted. Lol

3. Raikage chops will dissect justo unless he is more durable then a bijuu horn?

I'll get back later when I can really debunk this post.

 

[Icelerate]

I'm on my phone so I'll keep this short.

1. Cee did not use the same Jutsu on madara and obito. Fact, reread carefully..

2. Still don't know the difference between striking speed and foot speed I see. I'll break it down later since you think suigetsu them reacted. Lol

3. Raikage chops will dissect justo unless he is more durable then a bijuu horn?

I'll get back later when I can really debunk this post.

1. According to Naruto Wiki, it is. (

You must be registered for see links

)
The two scenarios look similar to me as well. (

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

)

2. I can see your point, regardless, Ay still has to strike Sasuke to kill him and if his striking speed can be reacted to by shinobi slower than Sasuke, Sasuke does it just fine.

3. I'm talking about Ay's bull rush punch to the gut (

You must be registered for see links

). He likes to rush at people with punches (

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

)

If Ay wants to chop, he has to reel back his arm which gives Sasuke plenty of opportunities to counterattack.

 

[Draegod]

1. According to Naruto Wiki, it is. (

You must be registered for see links

)
The two scenarios look similar to me as well. (

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

)

2. I can see your point, regardless, Ay still has to strike Sasuke to kill him and if his striking speed can be reacted to by shinobi slower than Sasuke, Sasuke does it just fine.

3. I'm talking about Ay's bull rush punch to the gut (

You must be registered for see links

). He likes to rush at people with punches (

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

)(

You must be registered for see links

)

If Ay wants to chop, he has to reel back his arm which gives Sasuke plenty of opportunities to counterattack.

1. According to Kishi and his manga it is not the same jutsu:

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

One is a genjutsu and the other is a Lightning Jutsu that is light base! If they would have used this instead of the genjutsu Sasuke would have had to rely on Susanoo ASAP or die. Don't worry I had to notice the difference as well. Wiki can be changed and edited by ppl no better then me and you btw, i wouldn't focus on wiki when trying to figure a character info if i was you.

2. Sasuke didn't react to it at all, there is nothing to talk about. Glad you see the difference though.

3. Indeed he does, but it isn't just the gut. It's where ever he chooses (head/gut/back), he can choose to chop or even grab. Nothing says he only punches in th egut when it is a fact he has done other methods of attacking.

What will Sasuke do that will be of any harm? Once sasuke engages in anything CQC he gets grabbed and Liger Bombed! Aye literally tanks any and everything outside of Kirin and that is simply out of the question.

 

[Icelerate]

1. According to Kishi and his manga it is not the same jutsu:

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

One is a genjutsu and the other is a Lightning Jutsu that is light base! If they would have used this instead of the genjutsu Sasuke would have had to rely on Susanoo ASAP or die. Don't worry I had to notice the difference as well. Wiki can be changed and edited by ppl no better then me and you btw, i wouldn't focus on wiki when trying to figure a character info if i was you.

2. Sasuke didn't react to it at all, there is nothing to talk about. Glad you see the difference though.

3. Indeed he does, but it isn't just the gut. It's where ever he chooses (head/gut/back), he can choose to chop or even grab. Nothing says he only punches in th egut when it is a fact he has done other methods of attacking.

What will Sasuke do that will be of any harm? Once sasuke engages in anything CQC he gets grabbed and Liger Bombed! Aye literally tanks any and everything outside of Kirin and that is simply out of the question.

1. Well I'm still not convinced. Sasuke would have died in that encounter if he hadn't used susanoo or if his team mates weren't there to save him. Even if Sasuke can dodge either Ay or Darui, he can't outmanoeuvre both in the state he was in at that time.

2. Reread my post if you want an explanation of why Sasuke can in fact react but couldn't in that scenario. His slower teammates reacting is a testament to the fact that in normal conditions, he can react just fine. Darui isn't fast enough to blitz Sasuke although he himself is pretty fast as well. Just being a bit faster doesn't guarantee you can blitz the opponent because shinobi can react to others faster than themselves.

3. I already went over how Sasuke kills Ay in the post above. Yes Ay has different means to attack but his most favourite is punching his opponent due to it being quick and easy. His chops require him to reel his arm backwards which can be reacted to.

 

[King Of Pop]

I feel like people are not fully exploring sasukes abilities here, I don't see kirin being brought up or genjutsu or even snake summons, all I see is chidori arguments and that's not all sasuke is capable off. also I see people say ay is underated yet some are saying he tanks a cm empowered chidori which is stupidity imo esp if sasuke directs it at his heart. Sasuke stomps scenario 1, can take scenario 2 mid high dif with his team but ay rapes scenario 3. Will elaborate further once I get my hands on my laptop.

 

[Haizaki]

And the the 4th would watch kirin being prepared when he's a close range fighter. Lol

 

[King Of Pop]

And the the 4th would watch kirin being prepared when he's a close range fighter. Lol

Yes because sasuke is fighting alone, its not like he has his team or his summon to give him some time, not to mention sasuke can use it quickly with his chakra like he was about to do against team yamato. Really need my system here.