Hebi Sasuke (Icelerate) VS Tsunade (PawsX)
- Thread starter Icelerate
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Sasuke and Tsunade come face to face.
Sasuke: *Cold Stare* Move out of my way or die!
Tsunade: *Glares* I only ever let you live because of Naruto but now you have become too dangerous for Konoha, as Hokage its time I put an end to you.
*Flashback to conversation between Sasuke and Orochimaru*
Orochimaru: Sasuke-kun, if you happen to ever come upon the two other sannin do not challenge them you are not strong enough. They will surely kill you. Do not ruin my body.
Sasuke: *Uninterested + blank stare* Tsk
Surely this is what would have happened.
XD
Sasuke: *Cold Stare* Move out of my way or die!
Tsunade: *Glares* I only ever let you live because of Naruto but now you have become too dangerous for Konoha, as Hokage its time I put an end to you.
*Flashback to conversation between Sasuke and Orochimaru*
Orochimaru: Sasuke-kun, if you happen to ever come upon the two other sannin do not challenge them you are not strong enough. They will surely kill you. Do not ruin my body.
Sasuke: *Uninterested + blank stare* Tsk
Surely this is what would have happened.
XDKaton
Ineffective against Tsunade because of
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. He would just be wasting chakra. Manda
Another chakra taxing option. He does not have control of Manda and needs to put him under a genjustu to use him but any pain Manda receives will wake him up from the genjustu and he will surely be angered. He is no counter to Katsuyu who he
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, he can keep her busy but getting so close to the slug only allows for certain of getting hit with acid which will break the genjustu.If Manda tries to bite down on her all she has to do is
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down his throat and then reform and
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. Kirin
- He needs to use countless katon[
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- He needs to not only
You must be registered for see linksin the sky to take control but alsoYou must be registered for see links. This battle will for certain be a CQC fight and Tsunade will continuously go after him to the point where he will not have time to use Katon or control lightning.
- Since this will be a CQC fight Tsunade will always be near Sasuke so unleashing Kirin will without a doubt kill them both.
- She can summon Katsuyu as meat shield to take the hit for her within the time it takes to raise his hand, take control and then bring it down.
Chidori Nagashi works by effecting the
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in the body, well Byakugo bypasses the use of the nervous system. Tsunade had her spine ripped through
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so the brain could no longer send signals to the legs to move them yet we have Tsunade jumping and moving as if her spine is fine. No matter what is going on with her nervous system Byakugo ignores it, raiton will not be numbing or paralyzing her in the slightest. Genjustu
- Tsunade fought against 10 Sharingan eyes and was able to not let herself get caught by genjustu. Meaning she never stopped moving in her fight against the susanos and was able to keep track of all of her opponents. Ay only got
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- Katsuyu is telepathically
You must be registered for see linksto Tsunade like a Jin is with a Bijuu so she can break her out of any genjustu if she ever gets caught.
Tsunade has loads of chakra compared to Sasuke. She was able to heal herself countless times, heal the Gokage/Replenish their chakra and finally give Onoki the chakra to do Super Jinton.
Sasuke only had chakra for genjustu, various katon, chidori, 1 oral rebirth, curse mark and breaking of Tsukiyomi.
The longer the battle wages on the worse its gets for Sasuke.
CQC
Why Tsunade beats him in CQC
- No injury is going to effect Tsunade. You can stab her heart, her spine, cut her up but nothing will stop her from moving and coming at you. She does not need to heal to move.
- She took on 5 legged Susano in CQC. She may have gotten stabbed but she not only gets out of it but puts distance between the susanos so they cannot gang up on her and moved so quickly she could get behind a one and take it down [
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- Matched 3 top tier speedsters and was able to react to Madara speeding right towards her [
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- She takes on Madara in CQC and punches through him. You can see she engaged him in CQC based on Madara's position before and after the Dan conversation. [
You must be registered for see links] [You must be registered for see links] Madara was on the ground near where he landed before and after shows him midair when Tsunade punched him.
Now the Gokage's positions have clearly changed meaning they also were involved however all they could have done was blocked off any exit ways Madara could have used but its Tsunade who keeps up with the Sharingan user and is able to land a hit on him. - Tsunade is just as comfortable and flexible midair [
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-
You must be registered for see links- One touch from Tsunade screws up Sasuke's nervous system. This is a better raiton attack compared to Chidori Nagashi because this actually scrambles the nervous system, its does not simply wear off you have to fix your nervous system before you can move properly.
- Monster strength - Sasuke would not dare pull out snakes near Tsunade. Unless he wants to end up like
You must be registered for see links. Sasuke could not pull his arm out ofYou must be registered for see links. If he catches her in the chest then he is done for as his arm will not be coming out.
The only way to kill her is to stab her brain or cut her head off. This does not happen because:
- A bedridden-just-about-to-die Orochimaru reacted to a chidori stream [
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- Orochimaru was a giant serpent in a small room when Sasuke cut him apart and Orochimaru wanted him to do it to release his poisonous blood in the air [
You must be registered for see links][You must be registered for see links]. Compare this to Tsunade's smaller body and open space to move.
- His striking speed with his sword is too slow to make the killing blow.
1. Orochimaru's big serpent form was able to escape his body before Sasuke could strike him [You must be registered for see links]-[You must be registered for see links]-[You must be registered for see links].
2. Deidara was able to throw up a bomb and and and make a hand sign before Sasuke could strike him [You must be registered for see links].
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~Ethereal~
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Fixed.Sasuke and Tsunade come face to face.
Sasuke: *Cold Stare* Stay in the hospital primitive woman!
Tsunade: *Glares* I'm not just a medic but a fighter as well!
Sasuke: You can't even touch me whereas I can slice you up without much effort.
Tsunade: Gahhh! You fool! Tsunade comes charging.
Surely this is what would have happened.
Agreed.
Sasuke
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after the battle so no need for genjutsu. Manda has already
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so he'll want to assist Sasuke to get revenge against Tsunade. First of all, that is if Manda swallows all of Katsuyu and if he does that, Sasuke can just send Manda back which also gets rid of Katsuyu on the battlefield.
Thunderclouds were created right after the usage of Katon Gouryuuka no jutsu (
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)(
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)(
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)(
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)(
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). The
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and
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. The amaterasu would have contributed a role but Sasuke can prep Kirin by himself even if it might not be as strong. He could use that technique multiple times in order to do so. I do agree that if Tsunade fights Sasuke in CQC, he won't need to prep Kirin as it isn't needed to defeat Tsunade.
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. The center of Tsunade's back wasn't impaled by the susanoo swords. Susanoo swords aren't coated in raiton either so I don't see your point. Byakogou needs the nervous system to move her body and to claim otherwise is complete fanfiction considering that Tsunade is still a human whose body functions no differently from another human apart from increased power, regeneration and chakra reserves. Not like it matters in any case.Raiton paralyses the opponent by locking the muscles (
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). I hope you aren't claiming that Tsunade's movements are independent from the state of her muscles. Tsunade was looking at the susanoos themselves and not Madara. That's different from fighting a human sized opponent as avoiding eye contact is easy when you only have to look at the susanoos movements as Madara is only a small part of the susanoo. Tsunade will have to be busy looking at Sasuke's feat and actively avoiding eye contact makes it
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. Agreed but Sasuke will finish Tsunade before he runs out of chakra.
Are you seriously comparing Deidara's nendo bunshins which are meant to capture their opponent to Tsunade's body?
Clay Clone (粘土分身, Nendo Bunshin)
Ninjutsu, Hiden, No rank, Supplementary
User: Deidara
An earthen puppet that deceives and captures!
There is no way to escape from this sticky power!!
Above all other "Bunshinjutsu*" this one has the double role of acting as a substitute and capturing the enemy. A highly convenient technique, characteristic of Deidara.
Made from clay, this clone can take attacks and capture the enemy by taking them into its own body. If "Exploding Clay" is added to the clone, it can then make itself explode, taking the enemy with it!!
[picture of Sasuke being caught by Deidara's Clay Clone]
↑An earthen puppet that shows its natural shape the instant a body goes through! While the clay changes in hardness, the enemy's arm is skilfully entwined!
*Bunshinjutsu (分身術, Clone Techniques) is the collective term for all types of bunshin, from the normal Clone Technique to the versatile Wood Clone Technique.
User: Deidara
An earthen puppet that deceives and captures!
There is no way to escape from this sticky power!!
Above all other "Bunshinjutsu*" this one has the double role of acting as a substitute and capturing the enemy. A highly convenient technique, characteristic of Deidara.
Made from clay, this clone can take attacks and capture the enemy by taking them into its own body. If "Exploding Clay" is added to the clone, it can then make itself explode, taking the enemy with it!!
[picture of Sasuke being caught by Deidara's Clay Clone]
↑An earthen puppet that shows its natural shape the instant a body goes through! While the clay changes in hardness, the enemy's arm is skilfully entwined!
*Bunshinjutsu (分身術, Clone Techniques) is the collective term for all types of bunshin, from the normal Clone Technique to the versatile Wood Clone Technique.
Anyway, Sasuke isn't going to be stabbing Tsunade. Sasuke's sword slashes can effortlessly slice off Tsunade's limbs rendering her unable to fight in CQC allowing Sasuke to then slice her in half. She can't move if she's cut in half allowing Sasuke to finish her off. Tsunade was getting stabbed before she could even hit the susanoos down. Sasuke is far faster than those susanoos and will have no trouble tagging Tsunade. Even Danzo was able to
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. Getting behind susanoo doesn't mean she can get behind Sasuke before he can react as he's a far more mobile fighter than a susanoo clone so he can turn around much more easily as well. The only top tier speedster is Madara in that scan. Tsunade didn't match Madara, she was propelled by Mabui's tech which makes her go so fast that her skin gets damaged (
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). I agree that was a great reaction speed feat and that Tsunade can react to Sasuke's speed just fine. Like you said, the Gokage were helping Tsunade. This CQC encounter happened off panel and Gaara could have been assisting Tsunade by attacking him with sand in conjunction with Tsunade. Moreover, it was
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and Madara's intention was to feint the Gokage so he intended to get hit to fool them. Tsunade's prowess in mid air was only good enough to grab and break a susanoo sword and then use it to hit a stationary Madara. On the other hand, even a non sharingan Sasuke while in midair was accurate and
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within Bee's sword while Bee was swinging it and then follow up with a kick to Bee's neck despite being in an awkward mid air position. So Sasuke still has a far superior midair feat despite not being enhanced by sharingan or cursed seal. I agree that Sasuke shouldn't ensnare Tsunade with snakes nor should he stab her with chidori.
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and
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are the only chidori variants Sasuke needs to put Tsunade in her place. Orochimaru only moved his arm to block chidori sharp spear coming from five meters away. Tsunade can move her arm in front of her which doesn't protect her as it'll get sliced in half along with her body.
Orochimaru wanting Sasuke to slice him doesn't mean Sasuke can't slice him if Oro doesn't want him to. Oro being bigger doesn't mean Sasuke can't tag Oro in a proper CQC fight.
Oro spitting himself out faster than Sasuke could strike doesn't mean he can physically dodge or that Tsunade can do so consistently. Furthermore,
Deidara making a hand seal doesn't mean he could have evaded Sasuke in CQC because he couldn't or else he wouldn't have resorted to doing so.
In summary:
Hebi Sasuke will humiliate Tsunade in CQC. His sword slashes give him
Orochimaru wanting Sasuke to slice him doesn't mean Sasuke can't slice him if Oro doesn't want him to. Oro being bigger doesn't mean Sasuke can't tag Oro in a proper CQC fight.
Oro spitting himself out faster than Sasuke could strike doesn't mean he can physically dodge or that Tsunade can do so consistently. Furthermore,
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before he went on to strike. Deidara making a hand seal doesn't mean he could have evaded Sasuke in CQC because he couldn't or else he wouldn't have resorted to doing so.
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are large enough for Sasuke to remove her head if she only slightly moves her head. Not to mention the sharingan will see Tsunade moving her head allowing Sasuke to simply move forward to compensate for any movement Tsunade makes (
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)(
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). Tsunade's back pedaling speed is no where near Sasuke's forward movement speed so like Madara (
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)(
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), Tsunade will be forced to block Sasuke's attacks with her arms but they get skewered by raiton enhanced blade. In summary:
Hebi Sasuke will humiliate Tsunade in CQC. His sword slashes give him
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to Tsunade's fists/feet. What makes Sasuke's CQC ability much more dangerous is the fact that he can use chidori sharp spear
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to further his striking range and AoE of his casual swings far beyond his ordinary kenjutsu (
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). Moreover, Sasuke's reactions far surpass Tsunade considering
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at the last second. On the other hand, Tsunade
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before being able to punch the susanoo clones.
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by it. In conclusion, Tsunade's primary way of attacking, her straightforward strong punches/kicks, are futile against Sasuke and will simply get her
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. Even a non sharingan Sasuke while in midair was accurate and
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within Bee's sword while in mid swing and then follow up with a kick to Bee's neck despite being in an awkward mid air position. Sasuke with a firm footing on the ground and sharingan precog will have no trouble targeting Tsunade wherever he desires while Tsunade won't be able to come close to tagging Sasuke.
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Ghost in the Shell
Active member
Stomp thread; I am fairly sure that Katsuyu would swallow Sasuke within the first five seconds of the match. Cut the crap, Iceleain't
Ghost in the Shell
Active member
Not as upset as you were when Konan was murdered by Tobi. Do you cry when angels deserve to die?
Genyūmaru1
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FemmeFatale
Active member
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This is really a thing Lol
I can't
When she was fighting a rinnegan user 10000x powerful than this Sasuke, without much of a sweat.....
Chhh
I can't
When she was fighting a rinnegan user 10000x powerful than this Sasuke, without much of a sweat.....
Chhh
Claymantan
Active member
Who the hell dislikes the OP of a debate thread that's just stating what the debate is? Salt. xD
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Come on, she said that one time. And she only said it because Madara brought it up first.
Hard parts over.
I am sure he is even more pissed at Sasuke for being the reason he died.
Read what I said. If he bites down into her, she can easily split or liquefy down his throat and blow him apart. Sasuke wonrt have time to pay attention.
Ok previous Katon did not help. But Amaterasu still played
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due to how much was used and it being applied to trees which created a constant burn and constant heating of the air since it never goes out. Never stated he could not prep it himself only that he needs to use even more chakra to do it. Not happening, he drained himself from prepping one with only 5 Katon.
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obviously gives more detail and a close up look as to the position of the susano swords clearly indicating the spine being ravaged as well as the whole midsection.
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its simply impossible it did not hit the spine. It obviously does not.
1. It clearly ripped through her spine
2. Her brain cant send signals to the legs
3. They still ended up moving
Chidori nagashi is all about nerve signals, Tsunade has shown that problems with her nerve signals will not stop her.
- Kabuto cuts her intercostal muscles which help with breathing. She should not be moving. She ends up moving [
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- Orochimaru cuts through the the heart muscle. Definitely should not moving. She ends up moving [
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All it takes is one split second yet against 5 opponents Tsunade never let it happen. Anyway Katsuyu renders it useless.
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I am. My point was Tsunade grabs hold of the hand. Ay used to be hyped as the fastest shinobi alive. The transport was fast, it did not make Tsunade faster nothing at all suggests that. Madara was able to
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while Tsunade was the one who came onto the battlefield blind but manages to strike first against Madara. Gaara was prepping Sand pyramid while Mei looked to be in position to fire off a justu but Tsunade was able to engage him in CQC and blew through him. As I explained they may have closed off exits but that only made him engage Tsunade. Him being a wood clone does not effect his taijustu skill and nothing shows he let her blow through him, he is clearly trying to dodge due the position of his body [
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][
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]. Another thing is we have no idea when the clone came to play, it could have been right from the start. Nonetheless Madara was still fighting. To say it was used just then and that he wanted to get hit to disregard Tsunade's feat is ridiculous.
Again she does this faster than Madara can react, only after slamming the sword down does he finally do something. Further more indicating how fast this was done is the fact that Tsunade is still in the air when Madara counters. Sasuke does his spin and then needs
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of the sword to accomplish the kick. Tsunade
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of Gamabunta's sword while in the air and was able to lead it into Manda's mouth so its not just a testament of her strength. Bed ridden about to die Orochimaru reacted to it and not only that but he used his weak useless arms to do it. Tsunade defends against it with one arm due to her superior strength and uses
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to trap Sasuke since he is in the perfect position. Bigger Body = Easier to hit if smaller
Exactly Sasuke's sword is so close to Orochimaru yet his striking speed is so slow
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gets passed him before he lands the blow. @Bold Also he is able to throw up a bomb, but it means Tsunade has enough time to get herself away a killing blow.
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Lets not forget that Tsunade was up against 5. Five Susano, you cannot compare the situation to Danzo he used a fuuton(?) and did not actually match in CQC. Obviously Sasuke is faster than the Susano but their numbers make up for the their speed.
Tsunade is able to intercept Orochimaru's striking speed at point blank range from an on her back position. Not only that but against a fast swing with the same AoE which did not cut through her but just into her, same with
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. Its a lot easier to stab someone than it is to swing a sword at them and Tsunade has reacted to both. She can even
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and break it. Sure Sasuke can cut an arm but not fast enough to get the other one before being pummeled, if he happens to dodge Tsunade can grab her arm and reattach it with regeneration since I have already explained how comfortable Tsunade can get midair and her flexibility. You came in here with a ridiculous notion that Sasuke had the ability to just cut Tsunade into a million pieces when he has never shown to accomplish such a feat.
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like these will have Tsunade healing before he gets done with all of them and Tsunade is not a
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in a small room so Sasuke does not have a giant opponent he can just cut apart. Sasuke needs to put all
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to actually cut through Tsunade and even then his striking speed is not fast seeing as how Deidara managed to get up a tree. You ignored Tsunade's own feats in CQC especially against a sharingan user whom she tagged twice. Her resistance to raiton and damage in general. You underestimated how comfortable and flexible she is midair where she could match Sasuke. Genjustu is ineffective. Tsunade's body held up against a similar sword. When it comes to it in the end you never want to be near Tsunade, nothing good ever happens when you get near her and Sasuke only has one shot at killing her and he only has one place where he can hit to do it.
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Okay what's stopping Sasuke from bringing it up as well? Face it, Tsunade's skill and prowess is nothing compared to Sasuke.
We are talking about the Hebi Sasuke which can summon Manda as that is Hebi Sasuke's peak. At the time where Sasuke can still summon Manda, Manda is still alive so no reason for it to be pissed.
Well Manda can keep Katsuyu busy for long enough before getting killed unless you want to deny their canon showcasing (
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)(
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)(
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)(
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)(
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)(
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)(
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). How is Katsuyu going to liquefy down his throat? Manda isn't going to take a deep bite if he chooses to do so. He'll strangle Katsuyu like canon, forcing it to split. A mini Katsuyu as a liquid is too small to choke Manda if he swallows her. Sasuke was drained because of many reasons. The main reason is that oral rebirth took a huge toll on him (
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).
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also played a roll in exhausting Sasuke's reserves like you mentioned. Sasuke doesn't have to counter Tsukiyomi nor Amaterasu in this fight so he doesn't exert himself much. The top panel doesn't show Tsunade's back so no it doesn't offer more detail. Furthermore, Tsunade's body was shown in a twisted fashion making it look like it went through the center of her back.
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you used to prove its impossible for it to not hit her spine is flawed. You basically
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which did not impale Tsunade and which is larger than the part of the susanoo sword that did impale Tsunade. 1. Went over this.
2. It somehow can or else Tsunade wouldn't be moving.
3. So how exactly is Tsunade controlling her own movements? Through some magical powers? Where in the manga does it state that Tsunade's nerve signals weren't working?
For arguments sake let's assume Tsunade does not need nerve signals to move but nothing suggests that electrical signals from an external source have no effect on Tsunade's muscles.
When Kabuto hit her lungs, she could barely move properly which proves that Tsunade's movements depend on the state of her muscles. Stabbing the heart doesn't paralyze one and I'm pretty sure Tsunade can perform even better if she hadn't been stabbed.
Okay whatever.
Nothing suggests Tsunade's body can entrap Sasuke's arm like Deidara's nendo bunshin. How is Tsunade grabbing hold of Sasuke's arm? She won't even be able to reach Sasuke's arm without getting through Sasuke's sword slashes which cut off Tsunade's own.
We are talking about base Ay who isn't hyped to be the fastest shinobi alive. Tsunade was propelled to the location by Mabui's technique, she didn't use her own speed to get to Madara. Madara was focused on attacking the Gokage so he was caught off guard. Nothing suggests Tsunade was blinded when she entered the battlefield when the manga shows it was actually
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. In spite of all this, Madara managed to react to her anyway by putting up his arm. How do you know Gaara was prepping Sand Pyramid when Tsunade charged at Madara?
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. Madara clearly wanted to feint the Gokage by faking his death so obviously he'd make it look like he got bested by Tsunade when in fact it was all part of his plan to
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. For argument's sake, let's assume you are right, Madara didn't have any weapons, just his fists and obviously Madara can't beat Tsunade with just taijutsu regardless of how skilled he is. I also agree that Tsunade would stomp Sasuke in taijutsu but we're talking about Sasuke utilizing kenjutsu which can in fact harm Tsunade unlike simple punches/kicks.
Madara already reacted to Tsunade when she showed up on the battlefield so claiming Tsunade swung the susanoo sword faster than Madara can react is fallacious. That's like saying Madara couldn't physically react to Tsunade
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. All you've proven is that Tsunade can strike faster than Madara can prep Yasaka magatama. The surprise factor was because Madara is in shock at Tsunade surviving the stab not because she was too fast for him.Sasuke needed the base of his sword to maximize the power of his kick. Regardless, Tsunade being able to hit a stationary distracted giant Manda from midair while staring at it is no where near as skilled of a feat as Sasuke being able to pinpoint the hole inside Bee's blade while it was in mid swing and while
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. Furthermore, Bee only realized what Sasuke did after Sasuke's blade hit the ground. Bee has better reactions and visual prowess than Tsunade so chances are, Tsunade won't be able to properly perceive Sasuke's kenjutsu to physically evade, nor can she block his attacks. Sasuke swings his chidori kattana or chidori sharp spear and Tsunade gets her arm and possibly the rest of her body cut off if she blocks it like you said. Hebi Sasuke has full intel on Tsunade's strength unlike Naruto and is far far more reflexive than him so he effortlessly dodges that much like how Kabuto kept on dodging Tsunade's attacks (
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)(
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) despite her continuously punching/kicking the ground. Bare in mind Kabuito is also far beneath Sasuke in reflexes. Hitting the ground requires Tsunade to look at the ground which puts Sasuke out of Tsuande's LoS allowing him to flat out
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. Unlike you, I'm not using Sasuke's feat against Orochimaru to prove he beats Tsunade so saying "Bigger Body = Easier to hit if smaller" doesn't prove anything in your case. However, it's hypocritical coming from you who is using Tsunade's feat against Manda and the five susanoo clones against a far smaller Sasuke.
Sasuke thought Orochimaru couldn't move so I have no reason to believe Sasuke used his full speed to get Orochimaru. Also the speed at which Oro spits out something
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in part one from
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so it's much better than Oro's ordinary movement speed. None of these prove Tsunade can beat Sasuke in CQC. Sasuke was up against countless shinobi and
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, the same Oro who has seen Tsunade's prowess yet is considered the prodigy of the Sannin (
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). You do realize Oro was using his mouth which would have decreased his striking/slashing speed? Nevertheless, a fully healthy Oro got dominated by old Hiruzen (
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)(
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) in CQC and I've already showcased that Oro is nothing compared to Sasuke in kenjutsu as he was amazed by Sasuke's skill in that field. Furthermore, Oro's blade couldn't slice deeply enough because it wasn't powerful enough unlike Sasuke's raiton enhanced bladeTsunade can't grab a raiton enhanced blade as it'll run through the hand that tries to grasp it. Once Sasuke cuts off Tsunade's arm like you admitted, it's over for her because Tsunade isn't going to have the opportunity to bend down, pick up her arm, reattach it and have it regenerate faster than Sasuke slicing Tsunade up.
Sasuke could
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yet he can't cut Tsunade apart. I never said he'd cut her into a million pieces, don't put words in my mouth. Deidara did manage to react to Sasuke's sword slash but
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and even still
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over it. At closer range, Deidara
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.All of what you said has been refuted but please counter this final point.
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. Now give Sasuke's attacks greater range and AoE with chidori sharp spear or even chidori kattana and replace Ay with a slower and less reflexive Tsunade and what you get is an easily slain Tsunade. This is hardly a fight.
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