. Sand was clearly inside that mix. He did infact become numb judging by the look on his face when he couldn't move his arm. No there ability still manage to land on his even though he was absorbing it similar to how Bee chakra arm still touched Nagato while being absorbed. .
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. Manga fact how when i just shitted on it but w/e you say.
Mei speed is about Hebi Sasuke which is around base Jiraiya level which he couldn't even just casually dodge Nagato summonings Mei and Tsunade aren't dodging shit also it's even a stretch to say Tsunade and Mei are as fast as Hebi Sasuke anyways. Just like Bunta felt Manda huh? No im implying Tsunade and Mei gets handled by Animal path summonings YES
Did you forget Nagato chakra reserves were already huge to begin with? Doesn't matter if he had an Edo Body. Itachi using Amaterasu is proof that edo's have some side affects while using there stronger jutsu. .
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. So once again you have ANOTHER MOOT POINT. Nagato doesn't need to fly Pain only did that so he could get to the center of the village without having to worry about anyone or anything getting in his way simple. useless point again. It was the Susanoo's backside that took the impact not the thin side armor that Ei smashed through so it's obvious which is stronger. Damn your stupid a none focused FSST put a hole that size in the ground a focused ST would be far more dangerous and devastating what are you not getting? I've proved why it was started late for 1 but if you want another example ill give you 1.
Example 1
Pain used a regular ST it didn't take a charge time at all. .
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. Now when he used a much more powerful one against the boss summonings there was no charge time either. .
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. .
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.
Conclusion bigger ST doesn't take a charge time and the scans above prove this very accurately.
How would they know FSST is coming? Flying above him L00l now your sounding silly ST can be sent out in 1 direction .
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. or a 360. .
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. They get wrecked either way.
Oonoki cannot preform Jinton without moving thus he isn't forming it while CT is in the air simple. Rasenshuriken has been used in movement and Bee and Kurama have both formed Bijuudama's while moving. .
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. So that doesn't help your agruement at all.
You haven't given one proper counter at all. Gaara wouldn't even be able to make enough sand to stop a focused FSST even if it did have a charge up time. Once again someone screams wank when they have no counter shutup and counter it and quit complaining.
Reading comprehension levels are as lo as ever. LOL he absorb the sand That was just the sand going towards his body, The sand is in the water so of course the sand will follow the water current. If he absorbed the sand the sand would have entered his body.
Here is a thread I made explaining why it is Gaara sand isn't affected by preta path.
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"which is around base Jiraiya level which he couldn't even just casually dodge Nagato summonings" -_- I ask for feats and you give me this? Jiraiya didn't even need to use body flicker against. Nothing in the fight suggested Jiraiya had to worry about any summoning's speed. The simple fact that you think despite animal path not being able to take out a base jiraiya that was charging up sage mode and a single from summon , yet can still take out two kages and a summon really make me question your credibility.
The point of me bringing up Edo tensie was that he was at max chakra(due to edo tensei) and that he had just absorbed chakra from all 8 tails of a V2 cloak. So he had a lot of chakra, it still doesn't compare to that moment. If notice neither Tsunade nor Ma Toad died from the attack. Wow another fail. You seem to think that the FSST that pain used wasn't focused when it was. He focused the attack on the village center thus that was it a full power. Their no much more powerful attack you envison of him focusing the attack, because we already seen him focus the attack. You truly don't understand how any of this works do you.
Ok first FSST isn't a real thing, it is simply shinra tensei that has been charged up with chakra. The reason it destroyed the entire village is the same reason why a meteor that is not even 100m can destroy a city. It simple he cause the ground to accelerate a speed that destroyed the structure and everything with the radius of the center of the village. They way you make it seem is that he made a sphere of gravitational force all around AKA the unfocused shinra tensei when it was actually focused right at the center of the village. Now that we got that out of the way let's explain why Gaara and company survive.
1. The damage was AoE because it was focused on the ground.
2. It has a slow enough start up,due to having to charge up chakra. It is a fact that he has to charge up chakra as it is in the Databook.
3. If here were to aim it at the ground and rely on the damage to earth and debris to harm/kill the kages then that can be defended against with a solid defence. Three people capable of on the team Gaara Onoki and Katsuya.
4. if he were to aim it at someone then that someone still has a chance of surviving depending on who it is and Nagato will be left vulnerable.
5 if they are in the air, and more specifically above him then if ST hits then who ever is with Gaara will be ok due to sand being a cushion and who ever is with onoki is saved due to flight. And ofcourse the two mention can save their own selves.
This is why FSST does not earn Nagato Victrory.
Onoki can stand on a platform which mimicks standing still but If that isn't enough for you, then onoki will just adjust his mass so that he will defy the gravitation pull done by CT and destroy, or Gaara will hold onoki in place with sand. Either he is destroying the core.
You are just wanking "FSST" without even a proper understanding of how it even worked. The 5 kage can counter/deal with all of that Nagto can do.
Uh pretty sure the technique literally states he reduces the gravity around him allowing him to lighten himself/lesten himself so yes he is affecting the force directly :lol You guys are retarded if you think its mass, he'd literally have to destroy matter which is impossible.
Uh pretty sure the technique literally states he reduces the gravity around him allowing him to lighten himself/lesten himself so yes he is affecting the force directly :lol You guys are retarded if you think its mass, he'd literally have to destroy matter which is impossible.
The force of Earth's gravity has a constant rate (9.8ms^2) on all objects. Weight describes the mass of something under the pull of gravity. Keijūgan no Jutsu reduces gravity's pull on the targets mass and may do so to the point that Earth's gravity no longer has an effect on that object of mass/target. In other words it reduced the effect of the force of Earth's gravity on the object from 9.8ms^2 to 0. Shinra-Tensei use's Earths gravity and changes the vector (direction of the force's magnitude) of it from it's initial position to towards the target...but it's the same gravity carrying the same constant rate of 9.8ms^2 which Keijūgan no Jutsu already reduced to 0 so it would have no effect on the target.
The force of Earth's gravity has a constant rate (9.8ms^2) on all objects. Weight describes the mass of something under the pull of gravity. Keijūgan no Jutsu reduces gravity's pull on the targets weight and may do so to the point that Earth's gravity no longer has an effect on that object of mass/target. In other words it reduced the effect of the force of Earth's gravity on the object from 9.8ms^2 to 0. Shinra-Tensei use's Earths gravity and changes the vector (direction of the force's magnitude) of it from it's initial position to towards the target...but it's the same gravity of carrying the same constant rate of 9.8ms^2 which Keijūgan no Jutsu already reduced to 0 so it would have no effect on the target.
First off the post you quoted was just arguing that mass is not changed, I stated why ST doesn't use the earths gravity earlier and why Onoki would be affected.
All you have to do is look at how CST was used, if all he does is reapply the earths force with a certain vector than it would have done nothing :lol, The earths base gravitational force doesn't obliterate towns, nor is he changing its vector at all in that instance.
First off the post you quoted was just arguing that mass is not changed, I stated why ST doesn't use the earths gravity earlier and why Onoki would be affected.
All you have to do is look at how CST was used, if all he does is reapply the earths force with a certain vector than it would have done nothing :lol, The earths base gravitational force doesn't obliterate towns, nor is he changing its vector at all in that instance.
I do agree that the actual mass of the object isn't changed.
If a large amount of Earth's gravitational force above Konoha was gathered and the entire force was directed toward it as opposed to the Center of the earth (it's natural position), it would obliterate it because the center of attraction has now become Konoha as I explained in a previous post.
Uh pretty sure the technique literally states he reduces the gravity around him allowing him to lighten himself/lesten himself so yes he is affecting the force directly :lol You guys are retarded if you think its mass, he'd literally have to destroy matter which is impossible.
I do agree that the actual mass of the object isn't changed.
If a large amount of Earth's gravitational force above Konoha was gathered and the entire force was directed toward it as opposed to the Center of the earth (it's natural position), it would obliterate it because the center of attraction has now become Konoha as I explained in a previous post.
Why would that do anything though? If the same amount of newtons is still being exhibbted?
Honestly what you're saying makes sense except for the fact that it ultimately increases the amount of force being applied. Gathering an amount of force from a wide area and applying it to a single area should logically increase the newtons to a number higher than 9.8^2.
Its logic....If he lessened his mass he'd literally have to destroy matter (which is impossible, matter is constant) unless he changes its form....which he clearly doesn't do :lol honestly does it even look like he's changing his mass? One look and you can see he remains the same size and shape which means no matter is changing form.
Why would that do anything though? If the same amount of newtons is still being exhibbted?
Honestly what you're saying makes sense except for the fact that it ultimately increases the amount of force being applied. Gathering an amount of force from a wide area and applying it to a single area should logically increase the newtons to a number higher than 9.8^2.
Its logic....If he lessened his mass he'd literally have to destroy matter (which is impossible, matter is constant) unless he changes its form....which he clearly doesn't do :lol honestly does it even look like he's changing his mass? One look and you can see he remains the same size and shape which means no matter is changing form.
You're going too much into physics. You cannot change gravity to the point where your mass reaches so high you can't even move without affecting others.
Also in manga where people breathe fire, change forms and form big ethereal avatars, changing ones mass is probably least of your concerns.
Uh pretty sure the technique literally states he reduces the gravity around him allowing him to lighten himself/lesten himself so yes he is affecting the force directly :lol You guys are retarded if you think its mass, he'd literally have to destroy matter which is impossible.
LOL we are retarded? It's one thing to disagree but have some dignity. So now Onoki is can manipulate gravity? He alters his mass, why are you even questioning the logic of how it is done when it is a fictional story. If he simply reduced gravity around him then how would he be able to move around and maintain a small weight? Not only that but if he maintained the same mass why would his punches be less effective then usual. If he if he is negating a downward force with an upward force then any horizontal movement wouldn't be effected by the the jutsu. And when Onoki stopped the meteor if he simply lessened the gravitational force and not lessened the mass then how could he survived the meteor and how come one meteor was damaged while the other took none.Not only that but how is ones gravity simply altered when is dependent on the earth and not the object on the earth. Calling us retarded just because your jimmies
You're going too much into physics. You cannot change gravity to the point where your mass reaches so high you can't even move without affecting others.
Also in manga where people breathe fire, change forms and form big ethereal avatars, changing ones mass is probably least of your concerns.
What? He affects his weight? Most likely by concentrating a good amount of force around such things. Again pretty sure the jutsu uses force in the description.
The manga is based on chakra being made into those forms :lol so your points are moot. Especially since I believe chakra is said to be energy in the Narutoverse and energy can be destroyed/created.
Not to mention Kishi's using jutsu that focus around physics in terms of gravity and forces so no, no one is magically removing mass when it is physically impossible in any universe.
@Solar- Your response is near retarded and changing gravity still answers all of your questions so don't know why you asked them :lol
Doton: Keijūgan no Jutsu ("Light-Weight Rock Technique)
Short-Rang, Offensive and Supplimentary
To dance in the sky released from gravity's constraints
The Jutsu reduces the target's gravity. It's natural application is to enhance, naturally it's used to make the weight of the things one carries lighten, ones personal weight can also be reduced, making ones movements fast and agile. The atmosphere as well as the human body is made light, in-order to soar through the sky. On occasion, It is popular for a person to control the jutsu's flight in the sky with specific stances (heavy paraphrased, but you get it, many users control their flight with their stance), with practice one can freely fly about in the sky.
Touching the target in an instant their gravity is taken away. The Jutsu user regulates how much (gravity) is snatched away.
The sensation of soaring through the sky is extraordinarily pleasant.... can't make out the rest due to unknown Katakana word.
Um...I wouldn't say he can create a force that makes the direct mass of an object irrelevant because the force he's using is Earth's Gravity which has a constant. The sun has mass but if Nagato used Shinra Tensei on the Sun it wouldn't do a thing because earth's gravitational constant is too weak to move an object with such stupendous mass. Mass doesn't determine the size of an object. An object with high mass can be very small however quite dense (eg: the earth at it's schwarzschild's radius) and likewise an object of great size can have a relatively low mass such as a large balloon.:
The force being utilized is earths gravity and the mass of the object determines how much they are affected by the force. When Nagato hit Konoha with Shinra tensei the objects of lower mass such as kunai or dirt were least affected and similarly Shinra tensei sent Gamabunta (larger mass) flying further than the Kunai Nagato deflected when he faced Hanzo's team. So the lighter the object of mass is; the lower the effect earths gravity will have on them. So Onooki won't be affected by Shinra Tensei.
1. You are wrong. The gravity constant does not apply a constant force on all objects regardless of mass. It's a constant because all objects fall 9.81 meters increasingly every second. Thus a 1000kg object has far more gravity then a pebble, but ignoring air resistance they would fall at the same exact speed because it's a constant. Gravity is not constant for the two objects, the object with the 1000kg weight obviously has far more gravitational attraction affecting it.
@bold Hence I said:
If the mass is too great then the repulsive force is irrelevant
2. Um no. Shinra Tensei had to be power up for it to sent Bunta afar, the first Shinra tensei failed against him because his weight was too much for a smaller gravitational amount [
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]. He didn't have his sword in the floor, it was out and Shinra Tensei still failed. Hanzo's team didn't get sent as far because he used a weaker Shinra Tensei, simple. Objects such as dirt and kunai would obviously not be less prone to gravitational fields which can push large masses, that is your own misconception of how gravity works. The gravity constant is not an equal force which applies to everything. Different mass=different gravitation. Nagato makes his own gravitation thus Onoki will be sent a few kilometers away as the repulsive force will be intended for large masses, and Onoki being in the middle of it will lead to his own demise.
In terms of definition you are correct because the gravitational force between the two objects is proportional to the product of their masses and the only reason an elephant would fall faster than a feather is because air resistance would have a greater effect on the smaller mass which----between the two----is least affected by Earth's gravity but that wasn't my point in the first segment you highlighted. My point was the gravity Nagato is manipulating according to the Databook is the force gravity has on objects on the Earth and you're only agreeing to what I said: That the lighter the mass the lesser effect Gravity has on it. If per say Nagato could control and create gravity as an independent force then he could increase it to the point that it affects objects wielding a very small mass as you previously suggested:
Apex said:
But Nagato can create a repulsive force which is irrelevant to the direct mass of an object. He can create any amount of repulsive force to work on any amount of mass.
The originating repulsion force generated by the power of all creation”shinra obiki” (something that binds all together,so likely gravitation) [...] Shinra tensei uses natural gravitational force, and only the one who has all chakra transformation (including yin-yang) can manipulatenatural gravity field (shinra obiki).
Shinra Tensei had to be power up for it to sent Bunta afar, the first Shinra tensei failed against him because his weight was too much for a smaller gravitational amount [x]. [...] Nagato makes his own gravitation
He doesn't create his own gravitation. It simply means that the initial amount of force Nagato was manipulating was not enough to send them flying (which would require more chakra). In simple terms if Nagato manipulated the force of Earths gravity needed to move a 3kg box 4 meters in any direction or the force needed to pin this 3kg box down to it's surface against a 500kg truck it wouldn't budge or be pinned down; he would then need to manipulate a sufficient amount of Earths gravitational force to move the said object of mass (500kg) in the direction desired or to keep it pinned down. I understand everything else you stated.
Databook IV said:
the amount of chakra put in the jutsu, its strength and area of effect can be greatly increased.
Why would that do anything though? If the same amount of newtons is still being exhibbted?
Honestly what you're saying makes sense except for the fact that it ultimately increases the amount of force being applied. Gathering an amount of force from a wide area and applying it to a single area should logically increase the newtons to a number higher than 9.8^2.
The constant doesn't change from 9.8ms^2 but the force of gravity on the object increases.
I'll draw an analogy: Lets say that it takes 2N of force to keep you glued to Earths surface and Lets say building's had no foundation but yet they remain seated where they are because of the effect gravity has on their mass which gives them a weight and keeps them on the Earths surface. What do you think would happen if Nagato manipulated the amount of Earth's gravitational force needed to keep every building in Alaska glued to it's surface (lets say that's 150,000,000 N) and applied all that force onto you?
Reading comprehension levels are as lo as ever. LOL he absorb the sand That was just the sand going towards his body, The sand is in the water so of course the sand will follow the water current. If he absorbed the sand the sand would have entered his body.
Here is a thread I made explaining why it is Gaara sand isn't affected by preta path.
So now you denying Manga facts smhhhh. Do you honestly think im going to read that wall of next i barely want to read your shitty arguements here let alone a wall of your BS. Look .
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. the chakra in Gaara sand was sucked out which is also the reason his sand went falling down null simply because he had just used Preta path also if Preta didn't work against his sand why didn't he exploit it more during the course of the battle? Please explain this to me??
"which is around base Jiraiya level which he couldn't even just casually dodge Nagato summonings" -_- I ask for feats and you give me this? Jiraiya didn't even need to use body flicker against. Nothing in the fight suggested Jiraiya had to worry about any summoning's speed. The simple fact that you think despite animal path not being able to take out a base jiraiya that was charging up sage mode and a single from summon , yet can still take out two kages and a summon really make me question your credibility.
Jiraiya used Gamaken who jumping speed is much faster than him running considering the boss toads can jump about 100+ meters in one leap. .
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. So Jiraiya on his feet wouldn't stand a chance at dodging neither does Mei and Tsunade. Animal did infact take Jiraiya out of his base. .
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. Your still using the fact that there Kages is why there going to win GTFOH kid your losing this debate now your ignoring arguments and trying to use there kage status as an excuse why there going to win.
The point of me bringing up Edo tensie was that he was at max chakra(due to edo tensei) and that he had just absorbed chakra from all 8 tails of a V2 cloak. So he had a lot of chakra, it still doesn't compare to that moment. If notice neither Tsunade nor Ma Toad died from the attack. Wow another fail. You seem to think that the FSST that pain used wasn't focused when it was. He focused the attack on the village center thus that was it a full power. Their no much more powerful attack you envison of him focusing the attack, because we already seen him focus the attack. You truly don't understand how any of this works do you.
That's not how you spell Edo tensei. They were sheltered by a ton of debris. Also was the FSST focused directly at them? Nope so once again your making another IRRELEVANT CLAIM Yes he focused it on the village not a person in general you clown now if all that force was focused on Tsunade there would no more Tsunade. Your not even that bad of a debater your just stupid and can't get the concept of none focused vs focused attack.
Ok first FSST isn't a real thing, it is simply shinra tensei that has been charged up with chakra. The reason it destroyed the entire village is the same reason why a meteor that is not even 100m can destroy a city. It simple he cause the ground to accelerate a speed that destroyed the structure and everything with the radius of the center of the village. They way you make it seem is that he made a sphere of gravitational force all around AKA the unfocused shinra tensei when it was actually focused right at the center of the village. Now that we got that out of the way let's explain why Gaara and company survive.
Full scale Shinra tensei is a real thing. The meteor landed on another meteor plus they were already in an area that was destroyed and looked terrible anyways. Your claims still doesn't make up for you case any better when if it had enough force to puch the village continuously until the entire village was stacked up on the village gates Gaara still doesn't have a defense great enough to stop it. Plus i already countered the charge up time argument.
1. The damage was AoE because it was focused on the ground.
2. It has a slow enough start up,due to having to charge up chakra. It is a fact that he has to charge up chakra as it is in the Databook.
3. If here were to aim it at the ground and rely on the damage to earth and debris to harm/kill the kages then that can be defended against with a solid defence. Three people capable of on the team Gaara Onoki and Katsuya.
4. if he were to aim it at someone then that someone still has a chance of surviving depending on who it is and Nagato will be left vulnerable.
5 if they are in the air, and more specifically above him then if ST hits then who ever is with Gaara will be ok due to sand being a cushion and who ever is with onoki is saved due to flight. And ofcourse the two mention can save their own selves.
This is why FSST does not earn Nagato Victrory
1- Are you claiming that if he wasn't focused on the ground it would have never been that devastating? Smhh the fact the a force/shockwaves carried the rest of the village to the gate means the force simply traveled you clown. If you were to punch a punching bag and it moved about 2 inches compare that to someone like Mike tyson prime who if punch a punching bag it would go flying to the end of the rail weather or not the force was still coming from his arm thus him same thing applies to the FSST ruining the village this is common sense son.
2- Didn't i already prove that the charge up time doesn't change? Kakashi was hit by a ST nearly instant .
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. Kakashi barely went flying. He used a Shinra tensei on the boss toads. .
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. and .
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. were is the charge time you speak of? They both happened nearly instantly now that that's out of the way next.
3- Why in the free hell would he aim at the damn ground when he can aim it at the small group of people he's fighting? Aiming it at the ground was only the motive when he used it in the leaf simply to obliterate the entire village. Once again you've made a completely stupid scenario to try and back up your idiotic claims.
4- Now you just being stupid as hell. He aims it at all of them it will be wide enough to hit all of them and if they try to all split around in the BF he simply let's it out in a 360 there is no debris to protect them from feeling the full affect of the jutsu here at all. Also how in the world will they know it will be coming in the first place please explain that to me?
5- Gaara's sand will be plowed right through his defenses are weak especially if he doesn't have prep which he won't here. Actually the ones in the air will get it much worst since they'll will the pure force of the FSST so Oonoki and Ei are turning into apple sauce. Who can save themselves? Please explain this your suppose to be debunking why FSST can take them out yet your still leaving out major details in your argument.
Onoki can stand on a platform which mimicks standing still but If that isn't enough for you, then onoki will just adjust his mass so that he will defy the gravitation pull done by CT and destroy, or Gaara will hold onoki in place with sand. Either he is destroying the core.
You are just wanking "FSST" without even a proper understanding of how it even worked. The 5 kage can counter/deal with all of that Nagto can do.
1 point for the CT counter but then again this isn't the root of my argument it's just something i wanted to point out. Im not wanking FSST your wanking the Gokage pathetic defense which isn't going to help them survive it.
In terms of definition you are correct because the gravitational force between the two objects is proportional to the product of their masses and the only reason an elephant would fall faster than a feather is because air resistance would have a greater effect on the smaller mass which----between the two----is least affected by Earth's gravity but that wasn't my point in the first segment you highlighted. My point was the gravity Nagato is manipulating according to the Databook is the force gravity has on objects on the Earth and you're only agreeing to what I said: That the lighter the mass the lesser effect Gravity has on it. If per say Nagato could control and create gravity as an independent force then he could increase it to the point that it affects objects wielding a very small mass as you previously suggested:
Instead the Databook states:
@2:
He doesn't create his own gravitation. It simply means that the initial amount of force Nagato was manipulating was not enough to send them flying (which would require more chakra). In simple terms if Nagato manipulated the force of Earths gravity needed to move a 3kg box 4 meters in any direction or the force needed to pin this 3kg box down to it's surface against a 500kg truck it wouldn't budge or be pinned down; he would then need to manipulate a sufficient amount of Earths gravitational force to move the said object of mass (500kg) in the direction desired or to keep it pinned down. I understand everything else you stated.
The constant doesn't change from 9.8ms^2 but the force of gravity on the object increases.
I'll draw an analogy: Lets say that it takes 2N of force to keep you glued to Earths surface and Lets say building's had no foundation but yet they remain seated where they are because of the effect gravity has on their mass which gives them a weight and keeps them on the Earths surface. What do you think would happen if Nagato manipulated the amount of Earth's gravitational force needed to keep every building in Alaska glued to it's surface (lets say that's 150,000,000 N) and applied all that force onto you?
Bro. You clearly don't understand my point. I agree that Nagato is manipulating earth's gravity. However, earth's gravity has the ability to affect objects which weigh 100,000 kilos. That means there's huge gravity on those objects. Then we have Onoki who is almost weightless. He barely has any gravity. But Nagato is manipulating any amount of gravity the earth can create, he is not manipulating the amount of gravity required to attract a weightless entity like Onoki - because that entity has negligible gravity working on it.... Nagato cannot use the full capacity of earth's gravitational force because it has immense potential to create gigantic amounts of force in order to attract extreme masses. Nagato is using a small fraction of that gravity. If he uses 1/10000th of it, it will still be sufficient enough to send Onoki to Mars because he is almost weightless, and without weight you have less gravity. But since Nagato dictates the gravity he wants to work on Onoki by increasing chakra, he will create a huge force which will affect Onoki. This page conveys my point perfectly [
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]. An entity which initially had too much mass to be affected by x amount of gravity was initially not moved, but after the gravitational force was increased, y amount of gravity was more then capable of pushing the very large mass away. Onoki, with a far lesser mass, will be affected by the huge amount of gravitation because he is only immune to the extremely low levels of gravity which ONLY are present due to his extremely low mass. But this is not a low level of gravity at all, and the more gravity used, the greater the mass that can be pushed. Having a lower mass equates to being more prone to being sent away, not less prone (when the gravitational force is not dictated by mass).
So now you denying Manga facts smhhhh. Do you honestly think im going to read that wall of next i barely want to read your shitty arguements here let alone a wall of your BS. Look .
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. the chakra in Gaara sand was sucked out which is also the reason his sand went falling down null simply because he had just used Preta path also if Preta didn't work against his sand why didn't he exploit it more during the course of the battle? Please explain this to me??
Jiraiya used Gamaken who jumping speed is much faster than him running considering the boss toads can jump about 100+ meters in one leap. .
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. So Jiraiya on his feet wouldn't stand a chance at dodging neither does Mei and Tsunade. Animal did infact take Jiraiya out of his base. .
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. Your still using the fact that there Kages is why there going to win GTFOH kid your losing this debate now your ignoring arguments and trying to use there kage status as an excuse why there going to win.
That's not how you spell Edo tensei. They were sheltered by a ton of debris. Also was the FSST focused directly at them? Nope so once again your making another IRRELEVANT CLAIM Yes he focused it on the village not a person in general you clown now if all that force was focused on Tsunade there would no more Tsunade. Your not even that bad of a debater your just stupid and can't get the concept of none focused vs focused attack.
Full scale Shinra tensei is a real thing. The meteor landed on another meteor plus they were already in an area that was destroyed and looked terrible anyways. Your claims still doesn't make up for you case any better when if it had enough force to puch the village continuously until the entire village was stacked up on the village gates Gaara still doesn't have a defense great enough to stop it. Plus i already countered the charge up time argument.
1- Are you claiming that if he wasn't focused on the ground it would have never been that devastating? Smhh the fact the a force/shockwaves carried the rest of the village to the gate means the force simply traveled you clown. If you were to punch a punching bag and it moved about 2 inches compare that to someone like Mike tyson prime who if punch a punching bag it would go flying to the end of the rail weather or not the force was still coming from his arm thus him same thing applies to the FSST ruining the village this is common sense son.
2- Didn't i already prove that the charge up time doesn't change? Kakashi was hit by a ST nearly instant .
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. Kakashi barely went flying. He used a Shinra tensei on the boss toads. .
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. and .
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. were is the charge time you speak of? They both happened nearly instantly now that that's out of the way next.
3- Why in the free hell would he aim at the damn ground when he can aim it at the small group of people he's fighting? Aiming it at the ground was only the motive when he used it in the leaf simply to obliterate the entire village. Once again you've made a completely stupid scenario to try and back up your idiotic claims.
4- Now you just being stupid as hell. He aims it at all of them it will be wide enough to hit all of them and if they try to all split around in the BF he simply let's it out in a 360 there is no debris to protect them from feeling the full affect of the jutsu here at all. Also how in the world will they know it will be coming in the first place please explain that to me?
5- Gaara's sand will be plowed right through his defenses are weak especially if he doesn't have prep which he won't here. Actually the ones in the air will get it much worst since they'll will the pure force of the FSST so Oonoki and Ei are turning into apple sauce. Who can save themselves? Please explain this your suppose to be debunking why FSST can take them out yet your still leaving out major details in your argument.
1 point for the CT counter but then again this isn't the root of my argument it's just something i wanted to point out. Im not wanking FSST your wanking the Gokage pathetic defense which isn't going to help them survive it.
I'm denying Manga facts yet I have proven with manga facts that the sand can pass the barrier. You have no counter for what I provided in the thread.
First that scan doesn't prove anything as you can only assume that preta made the sand fall. I can assume to, neither of use has Authority over one another in the matter. Kishi however does since this is his story. No where in the scan is it stated that Gaara sand could not be manipulated because of preta path, however with my "manga facts" it is confirmed preta path has no effect on the sand. It has been shown that it takes effort for Gaaara to releas his grip over sand so why would care to keep his grip on the sand when he was under the assumption that Naruto was going to take him out with Rasenshuriken. No where in that scan is it out right stated that the preta path loosened his grip on the sand. To ask "well why didn't just use the sand already on him." Plot. That is like asking why didn't Gaara just sink Madara or Gengestu's clam or almost any of his enemies in the desert. underground if could already manipulate the sand under Madara's feet or the fact that they are in a desert. Anybody would be crush and even Susanoo if Onoki adds weight to the desert sand, but that wouldn't advance the plot.
Confirmation(Me) > Assumption(You). I have proven it, you have only assumed.
LOL what!? You are saying that Gamaken's jump speed is faster than Jiraiya's Body flicker, and are you just going to ignore the fact that he was charging up for SM thus more vulnerable than just regularly in base? Jiraiya purposefully allowed that bull to hit him knowing he was going into SM. Do you even know what context is? I'm still waiting for those speed feats from the summons. I'm not using their kage status to prove they win. I'm just questioning you credibility. I may not be providing much proof for Mei and Tsunade but only because you haven't provided much for the summonings, so I'm waiting on you.
"They were sheltered by a ton of debris." -_- You aren't serious are you? When a bomb goes of will a person will be injured by debris not sheltered by it. You just don't get how this all works do you? Not only that but you can't shelter yourself from a force(which shinra tensei is). What you don't realize is the damage done by Shinra tensei cannot be compare by size. With shinra tensei he sent Giant toads flying and caused them to break all of their bones, but if that was done to another much smaller target it isn't going to suddenly do more damage because they are smaller it all depends what happens after the attack. Shinra tensei by itself doesn't damage moving targets. He hit a village(a big stationary target) with shinra tensei thus doing major damage, BUT that doesn't mean you can use that same damage done there to be used against a smaller target. He used the damage done to the big target to then be used as to everyone in the village. Thus why I say the AoE will not do much against a solid defense. The context we were using the word focused was different. It was a misunderstanding. I thought you were mistanken in one way but you were mistaken in another.
TLR read version: Shinra tensei wont do more damage to a person just because the AoE was increased, it will do the same damage no matter what. Ma and Tsunade surviving FSST proves
1. The damage done by the explosion caused by FSST isn't enough to take out Tsunade and wasn't even able to touch Ma toad.
2. If the people are scattered than it will not take out who ever the attack is not focused on.
When I brought up the meteor I was talking about meteors in real life. A Meteor IRL can be less the 100m and still destroy a city. It's Physics Yo!
You are showing me proof that Shinra tensei on a small scale doesn't have a charge up time. You aren't showing me "FSST". The databook states that chakra charge up is nessisary in order to increase the range of ST, so what is the point of showing what already makes sense by what the databook states? The less chakra charged the less the range and acceleration. Thus "FSST" requires a charge up.
The difference between a fist/meteor/solid object and Shinra Tensei/Gravity is the difference between Mass X Aceleration and Just Acceleration by itself. I've already explained why the village done to the village can't be applied to a person.
Why in the free hell would the 5 kage stay bunched up together when fight Nagato when it isn't necessary.
Nothing suggest that if FSST was in the 360 angle it would anywhere near as powerful as aiming it at a target. And how will they no it's coming? How did Katsuyu defend the viligaer from the attack in Canon?
When I say Gaara will defend against FSST with his sand defence I was referring to calateral damage done. If ST is directly used on Gaara however he can easily use the sand as a cushion as he did when Lee used his 5 gates on Gaara(which he was unharmed by) or like when he helped Mei out.
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Onoki light weight jutsu according the Databook "takes gravity away" from those affected by it, logically doesn't make much sense but it's Kishi's story:erm:. Because of that any direct hit from ST will be little to no effect.
Yeah, So um FSST still no working.
The accelerating force is counter by sand and light weight jutsu
The collateral damage is easily countered with a defence and is even tanked by Tsunade and A with durability and Gaara with Sand Armor.
That was just the sand going towards his body, The sand is in the water so of course the sand will follow the water current. If he absorbed the sand the sand would have entered his body. 
R read version: Shinra tensei wont do more damage to a person just because the AoE was increased, it will do the same damage no matter what. Ma and Tsunade surviving FSST proves