Healthy Nagato vs 5 Kage

[Beans2]

1. Where did you get that Shinra Tensei shifts the vector of earth's gravity towards its opponent in a repulsive manner? He's creating his own gravitational field.

2. It doesn't change anything because Onoki is not immune to any amount of Gravity. He is immune to the gravity which is working upon him regularly because of his lowered mass. Adding more gravity would result in him being affected as the minimum mass would decrease as the gravity affecting him increases. The earth's gravity cannot do what Nagato's Shinra Tensei does because the earth's attractive force is dramatically lesser then Nagato's repulsive force [

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]. So they'd be effected unless you think Nagato's Shinra Tensei uses a gravitational force as weak as that which works on you continuously.

Bruh. How can you even say Shinra Tensei is weaker than the Earth's gravitational field? The earth's gravitational pull keeps the moon in orbit and has a constant acceleration of 9.8m/s^2. You are overcomplicating this too much if you think any Shinra Tensei will damage lightened Onoki. Shinra Tensei is force. Force=mass*acceleration. Onoki has shown to make himself lighter than air, lighten Turtle Island to where he can pick it up with one hand, and stop a meteor with tremendous mass hurtling towards the earth at high speed. Onoki can make himself so light that his weight is nearly zero. Even if ST had more force behind it than that meteor, Onoki would hit the ground so lightly he wouldn't be injured at all.

 

[TheSages456]

the gokage would absolutely destroy nagato. this isnt debatable.

 

[Zexion~]

What is this nonsense, this is honestly ridiculous. Its been shown to affect chakra/Ninjutsu which i'm relatively sure doesn't weight much at all.

Not to mention all you need is physics if ST is used on you its APPLYING gravitational forces on you. Meaning its basically forcing you to weigh enough so that you are affected by it.

Bypassing it because you've made yourself light enough to be unaffected by the indirect gravitational forces of the earth is irrelevant if all the force is now being applied DIRECTLY to you. Also don't see how being lightened means you're immune to the damage if you hit the ground. Humans aren't balloons we have inerds and organs, I doubt they retain the original weight themselves which means they are that easier to damage/move around. Hitting the ground will cause enough shock to damage them badly. Unless there is a scan that says/shows that he takes less damage when lightened but I don't recall one.

 

[Beans2]

What is this nonsense, this is honestly ridiculous. Its been shown to affect chakra/Ninjutsu which i'm relatively sure doesn't weight much at all.

Not to mention all you need is physics if ST is used on you its APPLYING gravitational forces on you. Meaning its basically forcing you to weigh enough so that you are affected by it.

Bypassing it because you've made yourself light enough to be unaffected by the indirect gravitational forces of the earth is irrelevant if all the force is now being applied DIRECTLY to you. Also don't see how being lightened means you're immune to the damage if you hit the ground. Humans aren't balloons we have inerds and organs, I doubt they retain the original weight themselves which means they are that easier to damage/move around. Hitting the ground will cause enough shock to damage them badly. Unless there is a scan that says/shows that he takes less damage when lightened but I don't recall one.

It doesn't matter how strong the force is or where it's being applied. Objects don't take damage from the actual Shinra Tensei hitting them, they take damage from their own body mass hitting the ground. Onoki's body mass would be nearly zero.

Take the example of Madara's meteor. Let's say that it's mass is 1000. Gravity has an acceleration of 9.8 m/s^2. F=ma. That means that after 1 second of freefall, the meteor is falling with a force of 9800 N. After ten seconds of freefall, the force would be much higher than that and Onoki managed to stop the meteor's force completely and hold it up suspended in air. This shows that if Onoki can lighten the boulder to a point where it's tremendous momentum is stopped, he can lighten his own body to where its mass is something like... 0.000000000001 (in reference to the meteor). So when that little mass hits the ground, it takes little damage. A feather can be repelled with Pain's strongest ST but when it hits the ground it takes very little damage. Same reason why Onoki survives it.

 

[Zexion~]

It doesn't matter how strong the force is or where it's being applied. Objects don't take damage from the actual Shinra Tensei hitting them, they take damage from their own body mass hitting the ground. Onoki's body mass would be nearly zero.

Take the example of Madara's meteor. Let's say that it's mass is 1000. Gravity has an acceleration of 9.8 m/s^2. F=ma. That means that after 1 second of freefall, the meteor is falling with a force of 9800 N. After ten seconds of freefall, the force would be much higher than that and Onoki managed to stop the meteor's force completely and hold it up suspended in air. This shows that if Onoki can lighten the boulder to a point where it's tremendous momentum is stopped, he can lighten his own body to where its mass is something like... 0.000000000001 (in reference to the meteor). So when that little mass hits the ground, it takes little damage. A feather can be repelled with Pain's strongest ST but when it hits the ground it takes very little damage. Same reason why Onoki survives it.

Feathers don't have inside organs though, make yourself as light as a feather and you're insides become that much easier to move around, especially the frame/structure of your body which are your bones, and stop using mass btw, mass is simply the ammount of matter in an object it doesn't change regardless of how light you make yourself.

If something has less weight but it still the same amount of acceleration is acting on it by a force that doesn't reduce the damage at all tbh, why you think it does with calculations of mass which mean nothing is weird af.

 

[Apêx1]

Bruh. How can you even say Shinra Tensei is weaker than the Earth's gravitational field? The earth's gravitational pull keeps the moon in orbit and has a constant acceleration of 9.8m/s^2. You are overcomplicating this too much if you think any Shinra Tensei will damage lightened Onoki. Shinra Tensei is force. Force=mass*acceleration. Onoki has shown to make himself lighter than air, lighten Turtle Island to where he can pick it up with one hand, and stop a meteor with tremendous mass hurtling towards the earth at high speed. Onoki can make himself so light that his weight is nearly zero. Even if ST had more force behind it than that meteor, Onoki would hit the ground so lightly he wouldn't be injured at all.

I didn't mean the earth's entire gravitational field, I meant the force that is working on 'us'. And I didn't suggest Onoki would get damaged from hitting the ground, I suggested it is a flawed way of thinking to believe Shinra Tensei won't have an effect on lightened Onoki when the attractive force working on Onoki due to the earth's gravitation is far smaller then the repulsive force which Nagato's Shinra Tensei exerts. Using the Law of Gravitation you will realise his point is completely moot.

 

[Waltz]

1. Where did you get that Shinra Tensei shifts the vector of earth's gravity towards its opponent in a repulsive manner? He's creating his own gravitational field.

2. It doesn't change anything because Onoki is not immune to any amount of Gravity. He is immune to the gravity which is working upon him regularly because of his lowered mass. Adding more gravity would result in him being affected as the minimum mass would decrease as the gravity affecting him increases. The earth's gravity cannot do what Nagato's Shinra Tensei does because the earth's attractive force is dramatically lesser then Nagato's repulsive force [

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]. So they'd be effected unless you think Nagato's Shinra Tensei uses a gravitational force as weak as that which works on you continuously.

He doesn't create a gravitational field.

Here:

The originating repulsion force generated by the power of all creation”shinra obiki” (something that binds all together,so likely gravitation) forces its targets to collide together with a great force and put out additional damage, combined together with the initial force (shock wave) it puts up even more damage.

The repulsion force is generated by gravitation (obviously Earths) and forces it's targets to collide together with the great force (Earths gravitation) and put out additional damage (by affecting the target area) with the forces shockwave. If he's using Earths gravitation (who's constant is 9.8ms^2 as explained by Beans) to repel objects then it means he's changing it's vector; that is, the direction of it's magnitude from it's initial position to 'towards the target'.

@2 -> If Nagato is using Earths gravity against the an opponent who isn't affected by Earths gravity then the Jutsu (no matter the scale) will have no effect because the gravitation is the same magnitude however the direction of this magnitude is now changed.
​

 

[Nate Standfield]

Nagato loses, he can't use ninjutsu and preta path at the same time.

 

[Apêx1]

He doesn't create a gravitational field.

Here:



The repulsion force is generated by gravitation (obviously Earths) and forces it's targets to collide together with the great force (Earths gravitation) and put out additional damage (by affecting the target area) with the forces shockwave. If he's using Earths gravitation (who's constant is 9.8ms^2 as explained by Beans) to repel objects then it means he's changing it's vector; that is, the direction of it's magnitude from it's initial position to 'towards the target'.

@2 -> If Nagato is using Earths gravity against the an opponent who isn't affected by Earths gravity then the Jutsu (no matter the scale) will have no effect because the gravitation is the same magnitude however the direction of this magnitude is now changed.
​

By believing that Shinra Tensei possesses a force no more then the earth's gravity constant then you are believing that humans can live with this Shinra Tensei's force [

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] being continuously forced from atop of us. When I jump, gravity slowly pulls me back down. Being pulled down is the same as being pushed down. All forces push, and gravity is no exception to that. So when you think about it in a different, but applicable way, you think about it as Gravity is pushing down every single constituent atom of our body. But why are we not being damaged by it when Hinata got demolished by it [

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]? Hinata's case would mean that gravity no longer pushed he from above, but pushed her from the front diagonally down. Does gravity possess the force to inflict such damage? Does gravity literally repel objects [

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] instead of make them arc downwards? Does gravity have the capacity to make something with as much momentum as FRS disappear in a single instant [

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] when reversed? It's a "no" to all of these, because the gravity constant does not possess close to the amount of force required to replicate any of these under any circumstance.

 

[Waltz]

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[Waltz]

By believing that Shinra Tensei possesses a force no more then the earth's gravity constant then you are believing that humans can live with this Shinra Tensei's force [

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] being continuously forced from atop of us. When I jump, gravity slowly pulls me back down. Being pulled down is the same as being pushed down. All forces push, and gravity is no exception to that. So when you think about it in a different, but applicable way, you think about it as Gravity is pushing down every single constituent atom of our body. But why are we not being damaged by it when Hinata got demolished by it [

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]? Hinata's case would mean that gravity no longer pushed he from above, but pushed her from the front diagonally down. Does gravity possess the force to inflict such damage? Does gravity literally repel objects [

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] instead of make them arc downwards? Does gravity have the capacity to make something with as much momentum as FRS disappear in a single instant [

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] when reversed? It's a "no" to all of these, because the gravity constant does not possess close to the amount of force required to replicate any of these under any circumstance.

Then you don't know how gravity works. If the force of Gravity on an object and its immediate surroundings on earth was to suddenly shift from "Towards Earths center" To "towards NYC" then that object would physically crash through every (if the object's body can withstand every impact) other object between their current location and NYC. The reason Hinata was damaged and we are not is because all the gravity Deva manipulated changed from moving towards Earths center to 'moving towards Hinata' and her immediate surroundings. Same goes for repelling objects. Same goes for destroying Konoha as well, Deva gathered a large amount of Gravity (consumed a lot of chakra) and directed all this force towards Konoha.

the amount of chakra put in the jutsu, its strength and area of effect can be greatly increased.

​

 

[Apêx1]

Then you don't know how gravity works. If the force of Gravity on an object and its immediate surroundings on earth was to suddenly shift from "Towards Earths center" To "towards NYC" then that object would physically crash through every (if the object's body can withstand every impact) other object between their current location and NYC. The reason Hinata was damaged and we are not is because all the gravity Deva manipulated changed from moving towards Earths center to 'moving towards Hinata' and her immediate surroundings. Same goes for repelling objects. Same goes for destroying Konoha as well, Deva gathered a large amount of Gravity (consumed a lot of chakra) and directed all this force towards Konoha.

​

Correct me if I'm wrong..
The more mass an object has the more gravity works on it, which determines weight. Onoki has little mass and thus little gravity working on him directly. However, varying objects have different masses and thus the gravity applied will differ. So you can have a 10,000kg object being gravitationally attracted and then you can have a 1kg object being gravitationally attracted, but obviously there's a far larger force working on the 10,000kg object then the 1kg object. But Nagato can create a repulsive force which is irrelevant to the direct mass of an object. He can create any amount of repulsive force to work on any amount of mass. If the mass is too great then the repulsive force is irrelevant. However, if the mass is extremely small then the repulsive force will have that object sent on a one way trip to Africa.

 

[NarutoX28]

Bruh. How can you even say Shinra Tensei is weaker than the Earth's gravitational field? The earth's gravitational pull keeps the moon in orbit and has a constant acceleration of 9.8m/s^2. You are overcomplicating this too much if you think any Shinra Tensei will damage lightened Onoki. Shinra Tensei is force. Force=mass*acceleration. Onoki has shown to make himself lighter than air, lighten Turtle Island to where he can pick it up with one hand, and stop a meteor with tremendous mass hurtling towards the earth at high speed. Onoki can make himself so light that his weight is nearly zero. Even if ST had more force behind it than that meteor, Onoki would hit the ground so lightly he wouldn't be injured at all.

That to me doesn't make any sense.

If we use the concept F = ma, then logically, wouldn't Onoki and Ei's impact dramatically increase as the mass's decrease implies a significant increase in acceleration?

Then again, I've only taken Physics 1, so my credibility here is shit.

 

[Zexion~]

Again why are people using mass......Onoki changes his weight not mass :lol

Mass is the ammount of matter and is unchangable.

 

[NarutoX28]

Again why are people using mass......Onoki changes his weight not mass :lol

Mass is the ammount of matter and is unchangable.

Okay, I'm stupid, I totally forgot his ability to change one's weight allows him to fly.

You're correct. Everything I knew was a total lie.

 

[Waltz]

Funny question.

Um...I wouldn't say he can create a force that makes the direct mass of an object irrelevant because the force he's using is Earth's Gravity which has a constant. The sun has mass but if Nagato used Shinra Tensei on the Sun it wouldn't do a thing because earth's gravitational constant is too weak to move an object with such stupendous mass. Mass doesn't determine the size of an object. An object with high mass can be very small however quite dense (eg: the earth at it's schwarzschild's radius) and likewise an object of great size can have a relatively low mass such as a large balloon.:

The number of targets that can be repelled and their size are irrelevant

The force being utilized is earths gravity and the mass of the object determines how much they are affected by the force. When Nagato hit Konoha with Shinra tensei the objects of lower mass such as kunai or dirt were least affected and similarly Shinra tensei sent Gamabunta (larger mass) flying further than the Kunai Nagato deflected when he faced Hanzo's team. So the lighter the object of mass is; the lower the effect earths gravity will have on them. So Onooki won't be affected by Shinra Tensei. ​

 

[Waltz]

Again why are people using mass......Onoki changes his weight not mass :lol

Mass is the ammount of matter and is unchangable.

Weight is the body's relative mass that gives rise to a downward force; the heaviness of a person or thing.​

 

[solorflare99]

Again why are people using mass......Onoki changes his weight not mass :lol

Mass is the ammount of matter and is unchangable.

This guy SMH. Do you know what weight is? Mass X Acceleration. Only two componets thus he has to be altering one of them. He clearly isn't altering the gravitational force around him, so he must altering his mass.

Okay, I'm stupid, I totally forgot his ability to change one's weight allows him to fly.

You're correct. Everything I knew was a total lie.

Nah you aren't stupid, I'm actually taking what you say into consideration. and what you say make sense.
The problem is 2 things.

1Onoki alters his mass to a point where his he as dense then the air thus can can float and stay in place. SO if shinra tensei was used on him the air around him can keep him safe.

Or

Gravity already shows no affect on him so it isn't unclear if it(ST) would work on Onoki

 

[Rιver]

Zex wasn't exactly the brightest kid in his class.

 

[TRE MERCER]

LOL now you are saying he absorbed the sand? You need to improve upon your reading comprehension. I'm surprise we are even having this debate when this chapter came out years ago.
OK so you are claiming he became numb. That isn't possible because he is using preta path. If he is using preta path then he couldn't have become numb, because he absorbed any and all ration chakra. He absorbed both suition and ration thus only the sand got through. It simple. Gaara sand isn't affected by Preta path and that is a manga fact.

He did infact absorb the sand you clown. CLIECK .

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. Sand was clearly inside that mix. He did infact become numb judging by the look on his face when he couldn't move his arm. No there ability still manage to land on his even though he was absorbing it similar to how Bee chakra arm still touched Nagato while being absorbed. .

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. Manga fact how when i just shitted on it but w/e you say.​

Interesting I remember asking you for speed feats yet you are now asking me. Did it occur to that I would after you provided yours? Mei isn't a sensor but even someone who isn't a sensor can feel trembling from under ground. You are implying that a kage gets beat by a monster centipede. Are reading the same Manga as me?

Mei speed is about Hebi Sasuke which is around base Jiraiya level which he couldn't even just casually dodge Nagato summonings Mei and Tsunade aren't dodging shit also it's even a stretch to say Tsunade and Mei are as fast as Hebi Sasuke anyways. Just like Bunta felt Manda huh? No im implying Tsunade and Mei gets handled by Animal path summonings YES​

Using that feat of Nagato vs Nagato and Bee is null, because before he used CT he absorb all 8 of Bee's V2 cloak. He clearly had far more chakra after that on top of infinite chakra in base.
Katsuya tanks FSST so she is their for more than healing. As Nagato fly's to whatever height he needs to. Gaara, Onoki and Katsuya can use their defence for the team. AoE is still the major factor. Look at A for example.
A used liger bomb on sasuke and it did major damage to the area around but it didn't do much to susanoo.
A with a lateral chop went through susanoo like butter. AoE means nothing against a solid defence. So it made a hole in the ground, so can a lot of jutsu, but just not as wide an area but still that doesn't make a difference to a solid defense. Hitiing the ground yet Gaara sand shield is hard harder than the ground. All this wanking over a featless FSST yet the one we did see had slow start up and was tanked by an exhausted Tsunade(without any sign of Katsuya helping her tank) and Ma toad. Claiming metoer wasn't focused yet killed countless ninja including Madara and made a shockwave so powerful it was felt at the shinobi headquarters. All FSST is a huge AoE with decent damage output per square feat. With the likes of Tsunade, Katsuya and Ma toad tanking it. Not so impressive. Also what is stopping any of them from flying above him?

Did you forget Nagato chakra reserves were already huge to begin with? Doesn't matter if he had an Edo Body. Itachi using Amaterasu is proof that edo's have some side affects while using there stronger jutsu. .

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. So once again you have ANOTHER MOOT POINT. Nagato doesn't need to fly Pain only did that so he could get to the center of the village without having to worry about anyone or anything getting in his way simple. useless point again. It was the Susanoo's backside that took the impact not the thin side armor that Ei smashed through so it's obvious which is stronger. Damn your stupid a none focused FSST put a hole that size in the ground a focused ST would be far more dangerous and devastating what are you not getting? I've proved why it was started late for 1 but if you want another example ill give you 1.

Example 1

Spoiler

Pain used a regular ST it didn't take a charge time at all. .

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. Now when he used a much more powerful one against the boss summonings there was no charge time either. .

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. .

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.

Conclusion bigger ST doesn't take a charge time and the scans above prove this very accurately.

How would they know FSST is coming? Flying above him L00l now your sounding silly ST can be sent out in 1 direction .

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. or a 360. .

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. They get wrecked either way.​

You are asking me to show you a scan of Onoki while moving but that is irrelevant due to the circumstance. I can't show you a scan of him using it while Onoki is intentiollaly moving him self, but that isn't the case. As

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are doing they are using the jutsu as if they were stationary by standing on a platform. and Naruto can make a futon rasenshurinken which is a complicated jutsu to create, and Bee used Bijuu dama which is a complicated jutsu to use aswell. So clearly concentration isn't a deal, all Onoki has to do is get on a platform. If onoki can make jinton in scorching heat and sleep inducing powder than he can take out the core.

Oonoki cannot preform Jinton without moving thus he isn't forming it while CT is in the air simple. Rasenshuriken has been used in movement and Bee and Kurama have both formed Bijuudama's while moving. .

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. So that doesn't help your agruement at all.​

FSST has been countered you just haven't accepted it and choose to wank it based off of hype and AoE. Your argument relies on FSST and it isn't very reliable.

You haven't given one proper counter at all. Gaara wouldn't even be able to make enough sand to stop a focused FSST even if it did have a charge up time. Once again someone screams wank when they have no counter shutup and counter it and quit complaining.​

Weight is the body's relative mass that gives rise to a downward force; the heaviness of a person or thing.​

Actually weight and Mass go hand and hand when the person is gaining weight not adding weight to their body. When someone gains weight there body or a certain part on their body gets bigger/increase in size. Oonoki just makes himself weigh more thus he's not increasing his mass.​