HashiTobi is the Perfect Pair

[AzureCicada]

IDEALISM v. REALISM
shodaimeicon: :nindaime:​

After the release of the newest Naruto Chapter-625: "The Real Dream"; a very serious topic arose. Who was right? Hashirama- the idealistic First Hokage who had dreams of peace and wanted complete trust and cooperation with the Uchihas, or Tobirama- the younger realistic brother who was very weary of the Uchiha's and had a goal of democracy and a more straight laced attitude than his older brother? It goes without saying both of the senju brothers has been criticized with their methods. Hashirama deemed too naive and Tobirama too much of "prick". But while these brothers are separated and contrasted by their methods- why isn't there a realization that Hashirama and Tobirama methods ground each other? Without each other, they end up having a limited view. And it shows through the manga?

Hashirama is idealistic like i said, and there is nothing wrong with having dreams of peace and cooperation, however if another situation arises where the Uchiha's rebel and they're so overcome with hatred- What would Hashirama do? Hashirama without Tobirama would trust the Uchiha's 100% and that would've left the village vulnerable to any type of uprising. He would probably not see the signs, and try to satisfy everyone instead of actually putting his foot down.

Likewise we know full and well what happened when Tobirama was left alone without someone like Hashirama to loosen the straight-laced Senju up. No one was there to tell Tobirama giving the Uchiha's the military police was a good thing on the outside but in reality it set the Uchiha's up for persecution. No one was there to pull Tobirama back and remind him not to separate them, like he did when the Uchiha's were pushed to the outskirts of the village- alone.

Tobirama and Hashirama work best as a pair- they are completely different but relies on the other to help him stay on the right road. They are weak separated but strong together. And i honestly think they made this way for a reason to show it. To show you need different perspectives and visions- a limited view is by far the worst kind of view.

So really Hashirama idealistic view isn't better than Tobirama. Tobirama realistic view isn't better than Hashirama's! They both have pro's and con's, ups and down, flaws and positives! So there's no need in getting into a big debate in which serves better when in fact both of them serve the best together!
:hooray:

You may ask what was the purpose of this thread, well i think it should be put out there. So sorry...hahaha :x3:

 

[Y3llovv fla5h]

Good thread, I agree...and I like your sig! Kinda reminds me of a modern day Hashi and tobi with Kakashi being tobi albeit not as bigoted as tobi and the mokuton user(Yamato) obviously Hashi Haha, not as strong but has his scary moments

 

[AzureCicada]

Good thread, I agree...and I like your sig! Kinda reminds me of a modern day Hashi and tobi with Kakashi being tobi albeit not as bigoted as tobi and the mokuton user(Yamato) obviously Hashi Haha, not as strong but has his scary moments

Thanks!

LOL Yeah i can see it happening and the similarties XD

 

[Founding Fire Shadow]

IDEALISM v. REALISM
shodaimeicon: :nindaime:​

After the release of the newest Naruto Chapter-625: "The Real Dream"; a very serious topic arose. Who was right? Hashirama- the idealistic First Hokage who had dreams of peace and wanted complete trust and cooperation with the Uchihas, or Tobirama- the younger realistic brother who was very weary of the Uchiha's and had a goal of democracy and a more straight laced attitude than his older brother? It goes without saying both of the senju brothers has been criticized with their methods. Hashirama deemed too naive and Tobirama too much of "prick". But while these brothers are separated and contrasted by their methods- why isn't there a realization that Hashirama and Tobirama methods ground each other? Without each other, they end up having a limited view. And it shows through the manga?

Hashirama is idealistic like i said, and there is nothing wrong with having dreams of peace and cooperation, however if another situation arises where the Uchiha's rebel and they're so overcome with hatred- What would Hashirama do? Hashirama without Tobirama would trust the Uchiha's 100% and that would've left the village vulnerable to any type of uprising. He would probably not see the signs, and try to satisfy everyone instead of actually putting his foot down.

Likewise we know full and well what happened when Tobirama was left alone without someone like Hashirama to loosen the straight-laced Senju up. No one was there to tell Tobirama giving the Uchiha's the military police was a good thing on the outside but in reality it set the Uchiha's up for persecution. No one was there to pull Tobirama back and remind him not to separate them, like he did when the Uchiha's were pushed to the outskirts of the village- alone.

Tobirama and Hashirama work best as a pair- they are completely different but relies on the other to help him stay on the right road. They are weak separated but strong together. And i honestly think they made this way for a reason to show it. To show you need different perspectives and visions- a limited view is by far the worst kind of view.

So really Hashirama idealistic view isn't better than Tobirama. Tobirama realistic view isn't better than Hashirama's! They both have pro's and con's, ups and down, flaws and positives! So there's no need in getting into a big debate in which serves better when in fact both of them serve the best together!
:hooray:

You may ask what was the purpose of this thread, well i think it should be put out there. So sorry...hahaha :x3:

I do not think Hashirama nor Tobirama can be defined by simple labels like that, Hashirama was not just an idealist as he took the proper actions to have a realistic chance of creating a world where his ideals could prosper & was willing to die for his dream to come to fruition. The same can be said for Tobirama who had his ideals & made his choices around those, however in Tobirama's case he believed the removal of emotions was necessary to achieve peace, when in actually empathy is the most essential ingredient, thus he often made inhumane & bigoted conclusions because he could not empathize with his enemy turned ally(the Uchiha) who were in turn, known for being extremely passionate, thus he actually was the primary reason his worst fears came to be, as his actions to prevent a revolt; only spurred it.shodaimeicon:

 

[Yuffosan]

K. (at least 10 characters)

 

[AzureCicada]

I do not think Hashirama nor Tobirama can be defined by simple labels like that, Hashirama was not just an idealist as he took the proper actions to have a realistic chance of creating a world where his ideals could prosper & was willing to die for his dream to come to fruition. The same can be said for Tobirama who had his ideals & made his choices around those, however in Tobirama's case he believed the removal of emotions was necessary to achieve peace, when in actually empathy is the most essential ingredient, thus he often made inhumane & bigoted conclusions because he could not empathize with his enemy turned ally(the Uchiha) who were in turn, known for being extremely passionate, thus he actually was the primary reason his worst fears came to be, as his actions to prevent a revolt; only spurred it.shodaimeicon:

I see what you mean. And reading your post- yeah i guess it isn't black n white
But i guess my entire point was that the senju bros work probably the best together- where one can point out something the other can't??? I think neither views are better than the other since they both have some flaws and its good to have different perspectives of things for a better outcome I think that was what Kishi might've been aiming for
>_<

 

[Onion Soda]

I like your thread you get Kishi's mind right.

I can stand how all now are saying, "X happened only because of Tobirama" and that's really wrong, there is blame in him, in Hashirama and ESPECIALLY in Madara. People are know going to extreme lenghts of how Madara is kind of martyr, when he is the greatest prick ever, and poiting every single bad thing at the only guy who is not some sugar coat idealist and not a villain.

 

[AzureCicada]

I like your thread you get Kishi's mind right.

I can stand how all now are saying, "X happened only because of Tobirama" and that's really wrong, there is blame in him, in Hashirama and ESPECIALLY in Madara. People are know going to extreme lenghts of how Madara is kind of martyr, when he is the greatest prick ever, and poiting every single bad thing at the only guy who is not some sugar coat idealist and not a villain.

Thanks! Yeah i mean responses like you listed is the reason i wanted to discuss this in the first place. And yeah i think everyone involve is at fault in some degree- i don't think its all Tobirama's fault entirely at all.

 

[Insidious Smile]

Tobirama : Silence !