Hashirama vs Onoki + Mu

[Beans2]

That's how strength works buddy. Match ups are another thing, but Hashirama poops on them even with that. Arguing that they stand a chance no matter what is dumb anyway...but I'll humor you people.

Ok

Jinton needs to be charged, Madara already evaded it in canon, and the bold is fanfic. In no way can they use Jinton like that. For a swing? Yeah. As some kind of sword? No. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.

Im on my phone, refer to the scan that Phonas posted. It's how Onoki destroyed Flower Tree World.

If they even get in the air before getting obliterated by Hashirama, all they can do is fly to evade his techniques. He'd simply outlast them if they tried this tactic.

Myojinmon=/=Chakra. So Mu isn't going to sense it, and the counter for Onoki is legit.

Gaara's sand isn't chakra either, but Mu sensed it coming and dodged multiple times. What makes you think Mu's sensing is even chakra-based sensing?

 

[KidGamer65]

Ok




Im on my phone, refer to the scan that Phonas posted. It's how Onoki destroyed Flower Tree World.

He swung it around once. He can't wield it like a sword, it doesn't last that long.

Gaara's sand isn't chakra either, but Mu sensed it coming and dodged multiple times. What makes you think Mu's sensing is even chakra-based sensing?

1. Gaara's sand is chakra infused sand. So it can be sensed.

2. That's the only type of sensing in this manga that Mu could be using.

-Can't be using Contact Sensing unless you have scans of his medium.

-Can't be using Sage Sensing unless you have scans of him using Sage Mode.

-Can't be negative emotions sensing unless you have scans of him being the Perfect Jinchuuriki of Kurama.

 

[AGoodBoy]

Hashi easily wins. Madara had absolutely no problem, hashirama won't either. Wood clones alone will overwhelm these tsuchikages and make them waste their jintons.

 

[TRE MERCER]

lol at Kidgamer's posts about portrayal. "EMS Madara was stronger than them so Hashirama is stronger too." It doesn't work like that. Let's stick strictly to feats.

Jinton tears through any of Hashirama's defenses and two jinton users swinging large-scale jintons around like a laser sword is not something Hashirama can avoid. Having no intel makes it even worse for Hashirama since he will try to block it and not dodge.

Onoki and Mu also have defensive capabilities that counter Hashirama's ninjutsu; the majority of Mokuton formations are rendered useless due to flight and myonomijin (whatever it's called, those wooden gate things that Hashirama slammed down on the Juubi) are countered as well: Mu senses them and dodges, and Onoki uses Lightened Boulder to counter (the same way he stopped Madara's meteor.)

That logic made me go blind in one eye after reading that. Mu turns visible and start swing Jinton around he gets slapped down by a Shinsuusenjutsu hand which is Kurama size. Not intel means wood forest pollen puts them to bed.

 

[Sound]

This is being discussed? Hashirama stomps easily.

 

[Phonas]

No it doesn't.

Proof please, because I never knew Hashirama's Sage Mode allowed him to skip the steps necessary to get into it.

There is nothing shown, stated, or implied that they wouldn't be able to go all out on Madara.

Okay.

No idea where they were at.

They rendezvoused with Madara at Iawagukre in the hopes of creating an alliance with the Leaf.

Spoiler

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He could kill the island, or he could destroy most of it if not all of it by doing what he did with the Flower Tree World and moving his beam around. No way that he's making one the size of that island.

Based on Akatsuchi's words, it appeared as if he meant that Onoki can "blow up" the entire island with ONE shot.

And he said that he was running low on chakra so it'd be his last shot. Byakugo chakra has shown to power up people's jutsu. And once again, what Onoki did in that battle would require less chakra than a turtle island sized Jinton, and he still ran out of chakra.

What's another example of a jutsu that the Byakugo's chakra has been shown to power up?

All Jinton requires a charge time. That's a fact. It not being explicitly shown doesn't change that. A charge time that Hashirama takes advantage of. The moment they try to use Jinton, he counters and kills them with Mokuton.

What if they're shooting it from the clouds? Would the Mokuton even reach them, let alone in time?

 

[Lana Del Taka]

Lol, Hashirama stomps.

 

[Phonas]

Madara already evaded it in canon,

When? If you're referring to when he tried to jump away from it, wasn't one of his legs amputated in the process? So how does that qualify as an evasion?

 

[VongolaX]

Good all those high school musical kids will be dead.

Muu's invisibility isn't going to work with that much blood around.

OT: Hashirama

 

[Demonic.]

Hashirama shits on these clowns like Madara did

 

[Beans2]

He swung it around once. He can't wield it like a sword, it doesn't last that long.

That's what I meant. He only needs to swing it around once to get a hit.

1. Gaara's sand is chakra infused sand. So it can be sensed.

2. That's the only type of sensing in this manga that Mu could be using.

-Can't be using Contact Sensing unless you have scans of his medium.

-Can't be using Sage Sensing unless you have scans of him using Sage Mode.

-Can't be negative emotions sensing unless you have scans of him being the Perfect Jinchuuriki of Kurama.

No, I'm pretty sure it's only his Ultimate Defense that's infused with chakra. Regular sand doesn't carry chakra, otherwise Madara would have been able to absorb it with Preta Path. Besides, Hashirama's wood is infused with his chakra, otherwise he wouldn't be able to manipulate it. You're grasping at straws here if you say "Mu can't dodge it because it doesn't have a chakra signature" when 1) he's avoided Gaara's sand which has no chakra and 2) Hashirama's wood constructions have the same amount of chakra in them as Gaara's sand unless you have scans saying otherwise. Doesn't really matter anyway since Mu can go invisible so Hashi has no idea where to drop the wooden gate

That logic made me go blind in one eye after reading that. Mu turns visible and start swing Jinton around he gets slapped down by a Shinsuusenjutsu hand which is Kurama size. Not intel means wood forest pollen puts them to bed.

Reading that made me go blinder than Madara, Hashirama has to go into sage mode to make shinsuusenju, and he has to stay still to enter sage mode...meaning he's an open target for jinton. Doesn't matter anyway, since onoki uses lightened boulder to counter wooden fists (like he did against madara's meteor) and mu stops loading jinton and dodges it with his sensing just like he dodged naruto's attack

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Lol at flower tree world, onoki shits on it like he did in canon or they just fly out of range. onoki's already experienced FTW firsthand, manga intel brotha

 

[ARGUS]

Hashirama wrecks them with ease

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

Lol I feel hashi outclassed them


But as far as kid gamer stating madara shat on them let's be serious here there u wanna say madara didn't go all out on then (which is true) but there is no evidence that they didn't go all out on madara ... Look around the panel there r no holes in the ground no holes anywhere

Jinton when cast and thrown somewhere leaves it's mark how u say there is no evidence that Mu and onooki didn't hold back the same can be said that there is no evidence that jinton was used in the battle against madara.....

If u c here u can clearly see that jinton was used in the fight cuz it looks as if the rocks were cut clean holes in them

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U clearly dnt c that in the onooki Mu vs madara fight .....

There is destroyed building but it's destroyed if it was jinton it would still b intact just missig holes like Swiss cheese lol

 

[KidGamer65]

Lol I feel hashi outclassed them


But as far as kid gamer stating madara shat on them let's be serious here there u wanna say madara didn't go all out on then (which is true) but there is no evidence that they didn't go all out on madara ... Look around the panel there r no holes in the ground no holes anywhere

Jinton when cast and thrown somewhere leaves it's mark how u say there is no evidence that Mu and onooki didn't hold back the same can be said that there is no evidence that jinton was used in the battle against madara.....

If u c here u can clearly see that jinton was used in the fight cuz it looks as if the rocks were cut clean holes in them

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U clearly dnt c that in the onooki Mu vs madara fight .....

There is destroyed building but it's destroyed if it was jinton it would still b intact just missig holes like Swiss cheese lol

If Jinton was used, then it wasn't fired so that it'd hit the ground, or Madara simply beat the shit out of them before Jinton ever became a factor, since it does need to be charged up first. Onoki and Mu went all out, nothing that implies otherwise, while everything implies that they did.

I'll reply to the other post later.

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

I don't need to know the battle's details to know the conclusion. I don't care what happened during the fight because the manga already showed the result. Mu had Onoki's help yet he was laying on the floor, defeated, and Madara was standing up right, appearing to be perfectly fine. Meaning Mu got shat on. That simple. I've already provided the panels. If you want to deny them, go ahead. It won't change the facts.



Onoki's largest Jinton was made with Tsunade buffing his chakra, and it was nowhere near the size of the turtle island. Onoki ran out of chakra against Madara, and he didn't do anything that comes close to using a Jinton the size of the Turtle Island. Conclusion? Onoki nor Mu can use a Jinton that large until they show it.

Not to mention if they get that far away, Hashriama would easily evade it, since Edo Madara was closer and still managed to evade Jinton. In fact he let himself get hit. Lol.

U say u dnt need to c evidence on that onooki and mu went all out just because madara appeared to be perfectly fine


Yet u say u want evidence that onooki can do a jinton the size that can destroy entire turtle island despite his son or nephew w.e said that he could that's contradicting ur self bro .....

I'm not commenting on that piece of ur argument only the part where ufeel that they went all out despite lack of evidence
And ur content with this for ur argument


But when it comes it comes to someone else argument u need evidence shown (talking bout island size jinton) even tho it has already been stated in manga (not shown but stated ) that he can do so when fresh ....

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

If Jinton was used, then it wasn't fired so that it'd hit the ground, or Madara simply beat the shit out of them before Jinton ever became a factor, since it does need to be charged up first. Onoki and Mu went all out, nothing that implies otherwise, while everything implies that they did.

I'll reply to the other post later.

Nothing suggests that they used jinton in the scans also I really doubt a 14 year old onooki mastered all 3 elements at age of 14 (unless he's future nagato) and learn how to form and mix all of them into a keke tota to use jinton.... Just think about it it doesn't make sense ... Also didn't that time onooki had issues understanding earth ninjutsu or understanding something to do with earth (it could've been stone village or something) and the first tschikage made him polish rocks or something as training for earth ninjutsu i dnt remember dnt quote lmfao

But yeah like u said nothing suggest that they didn't go all out


Nothing suggest that onooki knew jinton at age of 14 .... As far as Mu idk he made the Jutsu or is oldest person we know with it....


Lastly neither Mu or onooki was at they're prime madara was .... (Around late 20 w.e) Mu wasn't tschikage I know that lol that other guy was and onooki was a little kid

So when u say they got shat on .... Ok
That's like saying itachi vs sasuke

Wait itachi shat on sasuke when he was 12 in hotel there's no way current sasuke can win now ....
(Not saying they beat hashi but both in prime r not getting completely stomped by hashi no diff lol Thts just silly espcially when jinton can destroy wood rather easily... And both ninja have flight so flower tree world is useless cuz they can just fly over it if u remember the kages made tht Jutsu look like fodder then madara got mad and use his Susanno (something hashi doesn't have) to smack them inside of it ...but once again not saying they win they just dnt go down as easily as they did against madara when madara was at his prime and the other 2 clearly wasn't)

 

[Phonas]

Very intriguing debate, you guys! Keep it coming.

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[KidGamer65]

U say u dnt need to c evidence on that onooki and mu went all out just because madara appeared to be perfectly fine

Because the manga already tells me he stomped them, and it tells me that they went all out. I don't need to see evidence of the contrary.

Yet u say u want evidence that onooki can do a jinton the size that can destroy entire turtle island despite his son or nephew w.e said that he could that's contradicting ur self bro .....

I'm not contradicting myself. I've already explained why its impossible for Onoki to create a Jinton that large, all supported by facts and I explained what Kitsuchi really meant by "blow up the whole island".


Re: Hashirama vs Onoki + Mu
Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
If Jinton was used, then it wasn't fired so that it'd hit the ground, or Madara simply beat the shit out of them before Jinton ever became a factor, since it does need to be charged up first. Onoki and Mu went all out, nothing that implies otherwise, while everything implies that they did.

I'll reply to the other post later.

Nothing suggests that they used jinton in the scans also I really doubt a 14 year old onooki mastered all 3 elements at age of 14 (unless he's future nagato) and learn how to form and mix all of them into a keke tota to use jinton.... Just think about it it doesn't make sense ... Also didn't that time onooki had issues understanding earth ninjutsu or understanding something to do with earth (it could've been stone village or something) and the first tschikage made him polish rocks or something as training for earth ninjutsu i dnt remember dnt quote lmfao

But yeah like u said nothing suggest that they didn't go all out


Nothing suggest that onooki knew jinton at age of 14 .... As far as Mu idk he made the Jutsu or is oldest person we know with it....

Where are people getting this 14 yr old stuff from? And whether Onoki knew Jinton is irrelevant. Mu had it, and Madara didn't need anywhere near his full power to beat them. Giving Onoki the same ability Mu had isn't going to change much. Madara is just going to have to try harder to win.

 

[Phonas]

This thread is virtually as entertaining as a Glee episode. YAY!

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[Dęvîa Puęrî]

Because the manga already tells me he stomped them, and it tells me that they went all out. I don't need to see evidence of the contrary.



I'm not contradicting myself. I've already explained why its impossible for Onoki to create a Jinton that large, all supported by facts and I explained what Kitsuchi really meant by "blow up the whole island".


Re: Hashirama vs Onoki + Mu
Quote Originally Posted by KidGamer65 View Post
If Jinton was used, then it wasn't fired so that it'd hit the ground, or Madara simply beat the shit out of them before Jinton ever became a factor, since it does need to be charged up first. Onoki and Mu went all out, nothing that implies otherwise, while everything implies that they did.

I'll reply to the other post later.




Where are people getting this 14 yr old stuff from? And whether Onoki knew Jinton is irrelevant. Mu had it, and Madara didn't need anywhere near his full power to beat them. Giving Onoki the same ability Mu had isn't going to change much. Madara is just going to have to try harder to win.

They couldn't go all out if they were inexperienced ... That is my point neither r in thier primes at this point at least it is known onooki isn't he's 2 young Mu I'm assuming was in his prime when he was feuding with Trollkage that is when he was tschikage which against mDara he wasn't .. Atleast not tht I'm aware of I thought flying dude is still alive at this point

What I'm trying to say is madara beat them in his prime (he didn't go all out I get it) cuz he didn't have 2 but these 2 r clearly not in their prime so their power levels are not the same ... Or abilities

In the fight against hashi (again I think hashi wins) they will b at their prime or Atleast from what we have seen yes ? What we seen in the war. And what we can interpret from madara vs onooki and Mu from mad long ago r 2 different sets of ppl ...

As for jinton let's go by ur logic assuming both onooki and Mu r skilled jinton users at this point

U said jinton wasn't being fired at the ground dude madara can't fly if these 2 (assuming they can fly at this point) r flying why wouldn't it be aimed at the ground madara cannot tank a jinton with regular Susannos we know this (so this is out of question) right so either he dodge the jinton (which is hard as hell to do with 2 jinton users) and if that was to happen holes will b left in ground or what ever madara was standing but there isn't so the other option is that it wasn't used (in ur previous post madara could've beat them so quick that they didn't have time to use it this could b the case as well they were young as ****)