[VS] Hashirama Vs Kakashi & Minato

[BenjerminGaye]

Sadly its not slower than Kamui. And where did the blocking of 20 different people happen? And all 20 of them possessed Hashirama's skill with tiajutsu and kunai and speed?

And also, show me the Kamui thats faster than the Mokuton pop i stated.

It is tho. Nothing is hashirama's arsenal comes close to kamui's speed feats.

Happened in gaiden. Hashirama isn't even reputable as having overly outstanding kunai throwing skills, let alone having kunai throw speed to step to minato.

Kamui outsped both ms and rinne vision at the same damn time. Where as ppl with normal eyes catch hashirama's mukton on the day to day.

 

[KingHashirama]

It is tho. Nothing is hashirama's arsenal comes close to kamui's speed feats.

Happened in gaiden. Hashirama isn't even reputable as having overly outstanding kunai throwing skills, let alone having kunai throw speed to step to minato.

Kamui outsped both ms and rinne vision at the same damn time. Where as ppl with normal eyes catch hashirama's mukton on the day to day.

"reputable as having overly outstanding kunai throwing skills"..... hmm and who is???? Didn't know ninja get reputation for having outstanding kunai throwing skills.. though most jounin + ninja have outstanding kunai throwing skills.


Again, show me kamui that is faster than the mokuton pop i posted.. you haven't done so. Normal eyes can catch Hashirama's Mokuton ... depends on the Mokuton... Hashirama did it faster than kamui.. All his Mokuton techs fast? no.. does he have fast Mokuton techs? yes...


And please don't use indirect comparisons. I want the actual speed of kamui being shown to be faster than the Mokuton pop that i posted. If you post it and it is the case, then i'll gladly step down from this argument.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

"reputable as having overly outstanding kunai throwing skills"..... hmm and who is???? Didn't know ninja get reputation for having outstanding kunai throwing skills.. though most jounin + ninja have outstanding kunai throwing skills.


Again, show me kamui that is faster than the mokuton pop i posted.. you haven't done so. Normal eyes can catch Hashirama's Mokuton ... depends on the Mokuton... Hashirama did it faster than kamui.. All his Mokuton techs fast? no.. does he have fast Mokuton techs? yes...


And please don't use indirect comparisons. I want the actual speed of kamui being shown to be faster than the Mokuton pop that i posted. If you post it and it is the case, then i'll gladly step down from this argument.

Itachi does, Minato does via ftg v2, sasuke can be said as well. Not hashi tho.

Why do i have to get the scan when I already explained what happened? All of hashirama's mukton have been perceived by normal eyes.

What's indirect about it? One is slow enough to be seen by normal eyes and the other is too fast to be seen by eyes that specializes in sight. Direct comparison.


Lol don't lie. You have no plans on stopping.

 

[KingHashirama]

Itachi does, Minato does via ftg v2, sasuke can be said as well. Not hashi tho.

Why do i have to get the scan when I already explained what happened? All of hashirama's mukton have been perceived by normal eyes.

What's indirect about it? One is slow enough to be seen by normal eyes and the other is too fast to be seen by eyes that specializes in sight. Direct comparison.


Lol don't lie. You have no plans on stopping.

No kunai hype.

Show me 1 scan that says Itachi is hailed for his Kunai skills by the ninja world... he isn't , hes shown great kunai skills cool.. The dude's reputation is from his genjutsu.. so no try again on this.

FTG v2.. no kunai hype here. Simply teleporting to a marker on a moving object or w.e .. Nothing to do with him being reputable for his kunai skills.. so try again on this also.


As I said, no ninja has been reputable on their kunai skills. All those who are Kages and are skills in kenjutsu and taijutsu are bound to be skilled in kunais. But of course Hashirama wouldn't have good Kunai skills.. even though the dude was skilled with different weapons, and had kunai precision even with a rock..


Except they weren't.. Madara couldn't predict Hashirama blocking his sword.. unless you have some proof he already precieved it. Again, some of his mokuton can be seen with normal eye.. other cannot. Its not a direct comparison.

A direct comparison will be when you show me the actual speed, go find an anime clip or something of Kakashi's kamui.. and show me it'd pop being faster than Hashirama's. You won't be able to.


"dont lie".. considering I have admit i'm wrong many times, i have no need to lie...

 

[BenjerminGaye]

No kunai hype.

Show me 1 scan that says Itachi is hailed for his Kunai skills by the ninja world... he isn't , hes shown great kunai skills cool.. The dude's reputation is from his genjutsu.. so no try again on this.

FTG v2.. no kunai hype here. Simply teleporting to a marker on a moving object or w.e .. Nothing to do with him being reputable for his kunai skills.. so try again on this also.


As I said, no ninja has been reputable on their kunai skills. All those who are Kages and are skills in kenjutsu and taijutsu are bound to be skilled in kunais. But of course Hashirama wouldn't have good Kunai skills.. even though the dude was skilled with different weapons, and had kunai precision even with a rock..


Except they weren't.. Madara couldn't predict Hashirama blocking his sword.. unless you have some proof he already precieved it. Again, some of his mokuton can be seen with normal eye.. other cannot. Its not a direct comparison.

A direct comparison will be when you show me the actual speed, go find an anime clip or something of Kakashi's kamui.. and show me it'd pop being faster than Hashirama's. You won't be able to.


"dont lie".. considering I have admit i'm wrong many times, i have no need to lie...

Even academy sasuke knew itachi's was the best in the uchiha clan. And this was prior to itachi killing them all. Even kabuto realized itachi can manipulate his kunai to sneak into rinnegan blindspots. So yeah. He has the hype.

Ftg V2 requires percision in throws, not just accuracy but travel speed as well. So yeah.
You're talking out your ass saying hashirama is god at throwing kunai when nothing states such. Where as itachi actually has hype amongst his clan and Minato forced to have it due to his style. It's like saying neji throws kunai better than tenten just because he's neji when tenten's style revolves around it.

I just gave you two examples, of hype and requirement. You fall back on baseless "kage" hype. I mean going by that Minato is kage and as such has equal skill in kunai as hashirama. Same goes for kakashi. So you're not really winning any points here. Throwing a rock precise =/= throwing kunai precise, expecially when it was directly compared to shuriken. Not only are rocks lighter shurikens which are lighter than kunai (and by extension lighter than minato's ftg kunai) they are easier to handle, you know... no sharp edges. So yeah 4 lvls down. But hey he can skip rocks.... yay.

Pretty sure he can. He is intelligent enough to pick up on tobirama's shrewd style than he should be capable of knowing that Hashirama knows his kenjutsu. It doesn't change anything cuz he's still gonna attack(rage does that to you) but he knew.

Anime clip? Anime who manipulates passing of time to drum up anticipation? Lol that's the worst source.

I already explained to you. Obito couldn't perceive kakashi's kamui. Same guy who can see and react to Ay, and Bm naruto, can't even see(confirmed by him, not assumed like in your case with madara getting blocked) let alone react to kamui.

 

[Demonic.]

Kamui also worked faster than susano arrows, not only that, during the war arc it displayed even better feats against Obito. Kakashi used Kamui so fast that not even Obito with Sharingan and Rinnegan could see it happening. Not to mention, it warped away the gedo mazo's arm (a lot bigger than a human body) even faster than a summoning jutsu (which not to mention, is a ST jutsu).

Well Kakashi was in the heat of battle and was ready to use Kamui at a moment's notice.

This is a VS matchup, so I'm assuming Kakashi will start in base without prior kneading of chakra.

So it is possible with full intel.

And lets supose someone is in fact fast enough to block the LOS even before kamui (highly unlikely) Kakashi can just warp away all of it including what's blocking LOS (unless its bigger than the gedo mazo's arm).

Kisihmoto himself made Kamui too haxed. Its not fun debating for Kakashi on the vs threads, its Kamui GG for almost everyone.

With full Intel after the Los is blocked Hashirama would proceed to make mokuton bunshin which Kakashi can't differentiate, and can't snipe all at once.

After this happens it becomes a stomp match in Hashirama's favor. (I'm sure I don't need to explain why).

 

[EZQ]

Well Kakashi was in the heat of battle and was ready to use Kamui at a moment's notice.

This is a VS matchup, so I'm assuming Kakashi will start in base without prior kneading of chakra.

So it is possible with full intel.



With full Intel after the Los is blocked Hashirama would proceed to make mokuton bunshin which Kakashi can't differentiate, and can't snipe all at once.

After this happens it becomes a stomp match in Hashirama's favor. (I'm sure I don't need to explain why).

I agree with the bold.

But about the first part, what was that? Kakashi was not on the heat of battle, if you recall that fight again, Sasuke pulled out the susano arrows as soon as the battle started, there was no heat of battle at all. Kakashi is just realy fast to pull out kamui.

 

[KingHashirama]

Even academy sasuke knew itachi's was the best in the uchiha clan. And this was prior to itachi killing them all. Even kabuto realized itachi can manipulate his kunai to sneak into rinnegan blindspots. So yeah. He has the hype.

So a genin believes Itachi was the best in the uchiha clan in kunai.

Kabuto the edo tensei controller praised Itachi's ability to figure out the rinnegan's blindspot and throw the kunai there (though this isn't a kunai hype, this is his ability to figure out the rinnegan. A good precision with the kunai and the right distraction would've hit that blind spot like Itachi did).

Again, he didn't have reputation for kunais. Were his skills great? yes.. did he have a reputation for them? no. This is something you made up.

Ftg V2 requires percision in throws, not just accuracy but travel speed as well. So yeah.
You're talking out your ass saying hashirama is god at throwing kunai when nothing states such. Where as itachi actually has hype amongst his clan and Minato forced to have it due to his style. It's like saying neji throws kunai better than tenten just because he's neji when tenten's style revolves around it

.
Quote me where I stated Hashirama is god at throwing kunai. I'll wait for this.

Hashirama's style revolves around weapons before he goes into Mokuton.. rofl. This is common knowledge.

I just gave you two examples, of hype and requirement. You fall back on baseless "kage" hype. I mean going by that Minato is kage and as such has equal skill in kunai as hashirama. Same goes for kakashi. So you're not really winning any points here. Throwing a rock precise =/= throwing kunai precise, expecially when it was directly compared to shuriken. Not only are rocks lighter shurikens which are lighter than kunai (and by extension lighter than minato's ftg kunai) they are easier to handle, you know... no sharp edges. So yeah 4 lvls down. But hey he can skip rocks.... yay.

You gave me bad examples of hype. Instead you gave me examples of ninja showing good usage of kunais with their other abilities. Minato is a kage with much much less experience in fighting.. with much much less training.. with much much less expereince with weapons. Don't ever both comparing them in skills, unless its about shunshin and hirashin.

skipping stones?? wtf are you on about?

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Pretty sure he can. He is intelligent enough to pick up on tobirama's shrewd style than he should be capable of knowing that Hashirama knows his kenjutsu. It doesn't change anything cuz he's still gonna attack(rage does that to you) but he knew.

rage does what??

It doesn't matter if hes intelligent enough to puck up Hashirama's knowlege on his kenjutsu.

Anime clip? Anime who manipulates passing of time to drum up anticipation? Lol that's the worst source.

No time was manipulated in the scene.. rofl. Bad excuse.. though even a manga scan was provided right under, but of course you had to pull the whole "anime " excuse just to try to make that point irrelevant.

I already explained to you. Obito couldn't perceive kakashi's kamui. Same guy who can see and react to Ay, and Bm naruto, can't even see(confirmed by him, not assumed like in your case with madara getting blocked) let alone react to kamui.

Manga scan to the situation where this happened please.

 

[EZQ]

Lol at KH. You've taken this argument too far. Is Kakashi's kamui faster than a Kunai? Yes. Would hashirama be on time of throwing the kunai? No. Even if he throws it, would it help? No, Kakashi dodges the kunai and warps hashirama away, against Kaguya he showed he can use kamui precisely while moving at a high speed.

If you admit it it would hurt less, Kishi is the one that made Kamui haxed, don't cry.

 

[Demonic.]

I agree with the bold.

But about the first part, what was that? Kakashi was not on the heat of battle, if you recall that fight again, Sasuke pulled out the susano arrows as soon as the battle started, there was no heat of battle at all. Kakashi is just realy fast to pull out kamui.

He was already kneading chakra before Sasuke even had Susanoo out.

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My point here is that starting in base without the prior kneading of chakra should give Hashirama enough time to block the Los. Technically, Kakashi still has to lift his headband up too.

Although, I admit there's really no way to tell if it's possible or not.

 

[EZQ]

He was already kneading chakra before Sasuke even had Susanoo out.

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My point here is that starting in base without the prior kneading of chakra should give Hashirama enough time to block the Los. Technically, Kakashi still has to lift his headband up too.

Although, I admit there's really no way to tell if it's possible or not.

I really don't see the chakra kneading. I mean if that's kneading chakra then every vs fight starts with chakra kneading, there's always a lil bit of conversation.

 

[Demonic.]

I really don't see the chakra kneading. I mean if that's kneading chakra then every vs fight starts with chakra kneading, there's always a lil bit of conversation.

He has his sharingan activated, thus he's kneading chakra.

There really is no way to tell if one is kneading chakra while talking as seen here:

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But we do know Kakashi was because he activated his sharingan.

Normally this doesn't matter, but when dealing with "Kamui GG" at the start of the fight it should :lol

 

[EZQ]

He has his sharingan activated, thus he's kneading chakra.

There really is no way to tell if one is kneading chakra while talking as seen here:

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But we do know Kakashi was because he activated his sharingan.

Normally this doesn't matter, but when dealing with "Kamui GG" at the start of the fight it should :lol

Kakashi can't deactivate sharingan. That's why he uses the head band so he doesn't die form chakra exhaustion, so it doesn't mean chakra kneading.

 

[Demonic.]

Kakashi can't deactivate sharingan. That's why he uses the head band so he doesn't die form chakra exhaustion, so it doesn't mean chakra kneading.

But when he removes the headband it means he's using the sharingan, so it does mean he is kneading chakra, doesn't it?

Covering his Sharingan with the headband conserves his chakra.

At least that's what I've always thought.

 

[KingHashirama]

Lol at KH. You've taken this argument too far. Is Kakashi's kamui faster than a Kunai? Yes. Would hashirama be on time of throwing the kunai? No. Even if he throws it, would it help? No, Kakashi dodges the kunai and warps hashirama away, against Kaguya he showed he can use kamui precisely while moving at a high speed.

If you admit it it would hurt less, Kishi is the one that made Kamui haxed, don't cry.

Will Kakashi do Kamui the moment the match starts? no.

Kishi didn't make Kamui haxed, fans just overuse it and believe its hax. There is a reason why people like Kakashi evenw ith Kamui, weren't put with the Gokage.

The moment he dodges the kunai, Hashirama instantly pops mokuton to stop the kamui range and the build up to the kamui. Meaning, Hashirama will easily avoid a Kamui at the start.

 

[EZQ]

Will Kakashi do Kamui the moment the match starts? no.

Kishi didn't make Kamui haxed, fans just overuse it and believe its hax. There is a reason why people like Kakashi evenw ith Kamui, weren't put with the Gokage.

The moment he dodges the kunai, Hashirama instantly pops mokuton to stop the kamui range and the build up to the kamui. Meaning, Hashirama will easily avoid a Kamui at the start.

That's why i said that it only happens if they're not in character. King dumb.

Kakashi avoids the kunai and warps hashi even before that. Its speed feats are way better.

 

[KingHashirama]

That's why i said that it only happens if they're not in character. King dumb.

Kakashi avoids the kunai and warps hashi even before that. Its speed feats are way better.

Thats not called being in character... dumbass. Thats called fighting sense.

KAkashi avoids the kunai, and can't warp hashi, because Hashirama's mokuton hands are too quick.

 

[Gold Lightning]

That's why i said that it only happens if they're not in character. King dumb.

Kakashi avoids the kunai and warps hashi even before that. Its speed feats are way better.

Erm, actually if the opponent is that powerful then yes Kakashi will go for kamui right off the bat:

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Against someone like Hashirama, it's only common sense that Kakashi would go straight for kamui. He's not so stupid to believe that he can win without trying to end it like this.

 

[EZQ]

Thats not called being in character... dumbass. Thats called fighting sense.

KAkashi avoids the kunai, and can't warp hashi, because Hashirama's mokuton hands are too quick.

What? In character means that they fight according to what they do normally in the manga. Kakashi's "fighting sense" is warping away stronger enemies, like he did with the gedo mazo.

LMAO. Kamui is way faster. And not to mention, the hands would get warped as well, since they're not as big as the gedo mazo's full arm. So, first of all, the hands wont be on time, and second of all, even if they are, kakashi warps them along with Hashirama.

 

[KingHashirama]

What? In character means that they fight according to what they do normally in the manga. Kakashi's "fighting sense" is warping away stronger enemies, like he did with the gedo mazo.

LMAO. Kamui is way faster. And not to mention, the hands would get warped as well, since they're not as big as the gedo mazo's full arm. So, first of all, the hands wont be on time, and second of all, even if they are, kakashi warps them along with Hashirama.

Kakashi's fighting sense is activating kamui the second the fight starts, and start to **** himself, when the opponent can easily disrupt him??? Its like Hashirama trying to pop up the buddha or some shit right from the start. No smart fighter would bring their best technique out from the start.


The hand's can't get wrapped if they mess up KAkashi's kamui, when he will be trying to kamui. Hashirama would need to stay in the same place for him to get kamui'd along with the hands. So yea not happening.


As I already showed you with the anime scene and the manga, his mokuton pop is fast enough to delay the Kamui attack. And enough for him to put his shield and start other mokuton pops while making wood clones from the back.

He can also make wood clones while simply doing the mokuton hands and once the wood clones are out GG to Kakashi and his Kamui.

Minato is the only danger here, so he would have to do something to keep minato off of him, while trying to do the hands. But if Hashirama gets the hands up he wins. As its not that hard to do the mokuton hands and make a huge ass leap to couple meters back.