Hashirama vs Itachi and Sasuke

[TobisPawn]

when? You mean when Itachi shot off like 5? during sasuke fight?

How is sasuke going toknow to move from pollen and can his bird fly faster than mokuton? Hashirama could just make a huge wood barrier out of trees.

By feats, Sasuke can summon a hawk and fly away on it before the pollen gets to him.

 

[~Uzumaki~]

Bringer of darkness and temple of nirvana are both A ranks, and even databooks said a skillfull shinobi can break temple of nirvana easily..

Come on, sakura did it... much better? Itachi specializes in genjutsu... kurenai was considered a master and he basically spit on her genjutsu... Bringer of darkness was special in how it is removed but it was just an a level technique... How can you POSSIBLY say he's a genjutsu user on ma and pa's level ?

You can't break genjutsu of darkness, that's what makes it powerful, 'no matter how powerful the ninja' that's straight from Kishi. So you're saying that its a weak genjutsu that's nearly impossible to escape? Then how is it a weak ass genjutsu? I can't believe I'm hearing this from you. You're not making sense. Goodnight.

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

found something interesting. chiyo, who probably had more battle experience than any ninja on the planet at the time said shed fought sharingan users before and she respected them enough to say

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this is 1 vs 2 so i bet chiyo would shit her pants in shodais position lol.

Particularly the key parts that you have absolutely no counter to,

or maybe i just choose to reply to the most egregious offenders of your post and counter them. i cant be sitting here arguing forever.

Nope just Yamato sprouting wood from his body,

i never denied hashirama can sprout wood. but he cant do it from his whole body which will be set on fire

Wtf? Gyuki is the size of a boss summon. Boss Summons/bijuu look like a dot in comparison with the meteor

which is bigger than any forest hashirama has made.

hat Amaterasu will do literally nothing to the forest even if it could burn for shit despite not being able to burn through Samurai Armor, Karin's clothes, Nagato's clothes or Zetsu through multiple panels/sentences of talking.

all those low end feats are contradicted when sasuke burns through a small army of zetsus to nothing in an instant, itachi burnt up all of nagatos summons in an instant, and bee was taken down by a large amount. it burnt off As arm.

He puts it on Sasuke and Itachi

how?

A few pages later, the Zetsu clones you claimed to be "incinerated in two panels" were still burning and you could still see their body parts

because the flames had burnt through most of them. the flames you see in that panel belong to the amaterasu burning THE GROUND ITSELF. i cant see any body parts. so dont make shit up

just faster than it takes for the long preparation(although it might seem fast to you, for any basic shinobi it takes quite awhile as long as they see the sharingan eye it's over).

you said hes not even looking at their eyes so as to counter tsukiyomi. so how will he know how to make a forest big enough to block amaterasu fast enough to almost hit raikage?

Mokuton is much more durable than Zetsu clones

they are MADE of mokuton. hence how they react to narutos chakra

Nagato was hit by it it didn't even burn through his clothes all the way.

so kishi wants us to see naked nagato just so we know amaterasu burns clothes?

Yeah, continue comparing Part 2 to Part 1,

hashirama didnt do anything in part 2 so what am i supposed to do?

"Hashirama is the only one to this point who can beat this ET"

1. kabuto didnt say that.
2. it was dan, a fodder who was born after VOTE and was the same age as hashis granddaughter meaning all he knew about him probably came from her

Lol no he didn't

the pollen was stopped wasnt it?

Bullshit, assuming that Madara survived or Hashirama even used it against him, like you said "oh you know kishi" for all you know Hashirama said "Good luck with this technique, if you breathe this pollen you die". Itachi and Sasuke won't know shit.

and for all i know he didnt. he wanted madara dead at VOTE, so he has no reason to hold back. madara clearly found a counter. no one is like "oh hashirama was the greatest cos he makes flowers". no they said "he is the greatest and was only chosen as hokage for one reason: controlling bijuus". this is the power oro and kabuto desired. not flowers.

Faster than Itachi or Sasuke can do shit.

hashirama has zero speed feats that compete with sasuke forming susano and casting amat on zetsus in two pages

things that he thinks are superior to flower world

i said if he has something better than trees and susano and preta path, im still waiting to see it

sinc when has pollen from flower world=chakra

since when has any type of gas emitted from chakra fuelled substances not possess chakra colour?

Pollen is a fine to coarse powder containing the microgametophytes of seed plants. Each pollen grain contains vegetative (non-reproductive) cells (only a single cell in most flowering plants but several in other seed plants) and a generative (reproductive) cell containing two nuclei

wikipedia. from this we know if these cells are meant to impregnate plants, it obviously have some type of living properties and everything living in narutoverse nature, has chakra, no matter how small or insignificant. hashirama cells had their own chakra colour on danzos body. and a technique from hashirama emitting microscopic cells that make people sleepy is obviously gonna contain residual chakra in the cells emitted from him.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has not found any harmful effects of pollen consumption

actually its not pollen as pollen cant hurt humans. this means hashirama added somethign to the technique like a poison. and sasuke is immune to poisons thanks to orochimaru. he cannot fall to flower tree world.

lol

what are you laughing at?

Nope, Hashirama

so hashirama can fight edo madara, previous kages, jincurikis, kin gin brothers, hanzo, previous akatsuki all at the same time?

Plenty of time for Hashirama to look away or, you know, create a giant forest to cover them in.

point me to where he made a giant forest in the nanosecond it takes to make a chidori spear or amaterasu shuriken

Haha, Hiruzen never showed any decent strength feats

pushed kyuubi out of the village and took kicks from hashirama and tobirama without being fazed. he got out of orochimarus many hidden shadow snake hands and had enough force of will to hold onto hashi and tobirama with his clones and seal them

mean since Yamato easily held back KN4 and Hashirama held back Kurama, we can't use those shitty feats sinc they didn't happen in Part 1.

make up your mind. you want to use hype, you dont. you want to use low end feats like not burning karin but you dont want to use high end feats like hiruzen fighting him.

Hiruzen being the god of shinobi also means shit.

so does hashirama being a fairy tale then. i win either way

Sakura makes craters by punching the ground, you think that part 1 Hashirama's wood can hold her back?

yes. as you said it held kuramas ankle. middle of part 1 is not so far removed from semi early part 2.

Yeah, paper bombs also usually blow people's body parts including legs right off

so why did you say hashirama having his legs blown off is a low end part 1 feat deserving to be ignored?

If somethig happened it's a feat, not hype

if something happened but we have little to no intelligence on how or what actually happened, its hype.
i can tell you sasuke killed itachi while leaving out the circumstances of what happened because saying "sasuke killed itachi" would be a hype, not a feat because of this.
i can tell you "deidara beat gaara" while leaving out that it was due to circumstance and deidaras intelligence/being a bad matchup.
that is why i cant say hashiramas victory over madara was legitimate. maybe he outsmarted and knocked him out from behind with a trick.
maybe madara was weakened to begin with and couldnt fight to his full power especially focusing on directing kurama with the genjutsu.
i can tell you "sage can create form from nothing and this is how he created bijuus" but i say thats not ok for me to use since obviously we dont know how exactly he accomplished this, or if he had help or if juubi let him do it.
i can tell you "sasuke beat bee" while conveniantly leaving out all the times sasuke should have died and the fact bee barely escaped. thats what your doing when saying "oh shodai beat madara so he must be the strongest". your leaving out all the circumstances that could have taken place during the fight that made the fight someway or other imbalanced or "unfair".

You might think it's "hype" because we didnt' see it on panel but it's bullshit.

if we dont see it for ourselves how are we to know if its a legitimate piece of hype?
minato's "he saw through everything" was disproven by a flashback.
raikage fighting 10 000 is obviously hyperbole.
i've never seen yata tank anything impressive so i say hyperbole for zetsu saying it reflects anything and everything.
and hashirama being called a fairy tale? well guess what? pain was said to not exist at all because of people believing hanzo being defeated was so impossible. they called pain a god and worshipped him while not being sure if he was one man or even a real tangible thing. thats how unbelievable he was. and these arent secondary sources from kids living decades after hashis time (kabuto), this is a primary source from an actual amekagure ninja saying hes not even sure pain exists. i mean if they dont know, obviously they are in denial and disbelief pain could do all that he did.

Lol wut prove it

prove he didnt. since you want me to use hype and vague statements, lets go for it.

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Prove it

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Yep every Akatsuki member ever have sealing techniques and sealed the bijuu they fought

that was pains jutsu

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The ****? Itachi or Sasuke doesn't have Kotoamatsukami

itachi doesnt have koto amatsukami yet forced it to activate on himself. itachi doesnt have koto amatsukami yet controlled and rigged the eye given to him to be inside a crow to activate upon contact with sasukes eyes.
itachi doesnt have koto but was given shisuis eye by shisui himself. why, if it was useless to him?

Totsuka won't do shit to Kurama

how in the hell could you possibly know?

assuming Itachi and Sasuke can do anything about 5 mountain dwarfing bijuu dama.

yes because madara can totally use that...

yes it does when Kabuto, the smartest Naruto character

yet was caught in genjutsu. shikaku is the smartest character. even shika could never beat him in shogi.

gathered knowledge and data on basically every shinobi ever says so

yet didnt know about izanami

Kabuto was narrating over Madara vs Kages fight, are you serious?

he was retreating from the fight and therefore didnt know what was going on once raikage punched him out of the way in 563.

After beating them he sealed Kurama

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Implying he's going to use finger genjutsu now, when he doesn't have knowledge to do anything. At first it's "hurr amaterasu" but when that's countered"

amaterasu will not be countered so theres no need for anything else

never shown the capability to instantly use all of these at once

sasuke has used two of them in tandem in 1 page

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Or rather, never any of them at the beginning of a fight ever. I absolutely love the BS on Itachi's side--- If he doesn't use Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi at the beginning of the fight he loses...

well certainly not as thats not all the techniques he has. susano is pretty instant as is totsuka

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despite in every single battle he's ever been in when he hasn't used them, in this fight he miraculously will because it's the only way he avoids losing?

this fight is bloodlust and itachi has never been bloodlust. thats why he immediately uses these techniques here and not anywhere else

in character

sorry but OP doesnt state its IC. default is bloodlust. both sides are doing all they can to win as quickly as possble.

Prove it

now you demand proof even though one of the sole arguments for hashi winning is because kabuto says he can beat anyone? make up your mind. and all you need is common sense. jiraiya stated swamp of underworld is weak because he was still drugged and at 30%. not only was it stated he was drugged and limited

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but its stated that the drug stopped him from making a larger swamp and sinking the giant snake.

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itachi is stated as at 30% power

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. so how the hell do you expect his techniques to all be full power?

a jutsu is a jutsu if you have enough chakra it's absolutely no different from using it if you have more chakra
This has been shown with every technique

wrong. inos mind control tech was stated as weaker because of how exhausted she was. sasuke lost susano as his body got weaker and gave out. gaara couldnt maintain sand sphere since hed taken a chidori to the lung. yamato is stated as having a weaker nativity of world of trees because he only got a portion of hashiramas power. if hashirama was exhausted and had the same amount of power as yaamto currently has, id say his mokuton suffers. shikamaru was unable to use his shadow possession on hidan for very long compared to the start of the fight because he was getting exhausted. it got weaker as shika did.
the itachi in rescue gaara arc was little more than a clone and just try and argue how a 30% clone = 100% original.

Dude didn't get his legs blown off, in anyone's book that's considered "tanking" it

no it isnt. if his legs are rendered useless thats not tanking it thats surviving an especially strong fire style bomb from hanzo

air definitely penetrates it too.

pollen are microscopic living cells.

Yeah, Shika couldn't hold back Tayuya or Hidan's brute strength. You expect him to hold back Sakura's? Bullshit, he starts sweating 2 seconds in, she effortlessly breaks out and punches his head in.

he did actually. how do you think he got hidan to the paper bomb trap?

I thought you said it wasn't even common knowledge, only when it's used to help your argument it's common knowledge?

madara himself and his abilities is not common knowledge. keep up. gamahiro said no one can control kyuubi and jiraiya was like "yeah there was..one"

that's obviously the only second in the fight where Kurama was on the field. Hashirama just sealed him the next second

as ive said a thousand times before, no one has fought a bijuu toe to toe. hashirama got control over it after restraining it. you would never say yamato > oro just because he restrained 4 tails kyuubi and oros snakes could not. because as we are now going solely off hype like you want me to, yamato said he cant fight orochimaru and expect to stand a chance

it's because Kurama was actually in the village and everyone saw it?

exactly. no one saw the battle at VOTE so no one is aware hashirama and madara fought over kyuubi besides mito who told kushina and others. for madara to control kyubi is something known only to itachi jiraiya and tobi and whoever else deciphered the tablet/heard about it from mito.

Mito entered the fight during mid fight?

how am i supposed to know? all i know is she was better aiding him by dragging it into herself rather than letting him handl control over it.

Please sir, point out where it was ever implied/said/shown where Mito entered the fight and had a 2v2 battle with Madara etc. And you said that I was speculating.

your free to speculate but im not? you say hashiramas strongest cos madara and kabuto say so. you say he beat madara cos peopel who werent even there say so!

Definitely wasn't because of chakra chains or anything

i think your not even reading any of this in context. you said its unrealistic for hashirama to say one sentence in the middle of a fight, but minato and kushina had like two chapters of talking to their son while having a KYUUBI CLAW RAMMED INTO THEIR CHESTS. my my they are resilient.

Itachi and Sasuke have never showed that ability

and hashirama has never shown flower tree world ability to form it in an instant. it goes both ways. you cant have both. either powers are madara specific or others can do the same thign witht he same ease.

Genjutsuing any human means jack when comparing to a bijuu

what happens when you do both?

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I guess when Kurama fought the village and Minato took it from Tobi's control he should have just went and got any basic Uchiha to control him.

are you really saying itachi and sasuke are basic uchihas?

Better yet, went and got Itachi! Oh wait.

ITACHI WAS 5 YEARS OLD YOU IMBECILE

Yeah, so far what has EMS done? Not much. And when has EMS shown its level up in genjutsu thus far? Oh yeah, it hasn't.

so why are you saying hashiramas strongest solely cos he took down the EMS?

Yep, relied on Mokuton, shows how useful it is vs 5 kages. Itachi and Sasuke are destroyed easily

yep relied on mokuton. useless against the power of chidori spear to the face formed in 1 page and amaterasu shurikens formed in 1 page as opposed to nativity of world of trees two pages. clearly the uchihas are faster than edo hashirama.

See, he doesn't even need EMS, all he needs is Hashirama's trusty Mokuton to beat all 5 kages.

because his version is so much stronger. and he does need EMS. what do you think the susano is? is that not an MS power? madara has camped in susano for 99% of the kage fight.

So out of 2 techniques just because Sasuke's used them more he's superior to Madara?

no. out of the SEVERAL techniques ive seen him use and the utter lack of any fatigue after using enton twice and susano constantly. im utterly impressed by alive sasuke and disappointed by the "legendary" edo madara's EMS which is just susano spam due to immortality. not because of actual skill and stamina.

I guess that makes Naruto superior to Jiraiya because 1 of his techniques did greater things

it indeed does. his Sm is better, his rasengan is better, his trump card is better etc

and because you're hyping EMS to the max acting like it's godly when we haven't seen shit from his EMS

no YOUR hyping EMS as godly because you want me to be impressed that hashirama took ems down. but sasuke has demonstrated better skill with it than madara has which isnt saying that much at all.

despite him never using genjutsu on the EMS?

he doesnt need to. the two genjutsu he did use as an EMS user were basic sharingan and were strong enough for the purpose.

That scratches the forest he made while they were busy breaking the genjutsu

no it impales hashirama's brain after hes looked at itachis finger

They get knocked out, Hashi is automatically broken out of genjutsu(assuming they can even catch him in one when they're trapped under a forest and assuming he doesn't just easily break himself out) and he kills them

and your assuming they will stand there and do nothing while he slowly makes alot of trees. as ive said they activate and use powerful jutsus in 1 page whereas hashirama took 3 pages to do anything to old hiruzen. im sure he has to at least look at their bodies while trying to make trees to attack their susano with like you stated his strategy was. he cant just not look at itachis finger during that whole time. you say they have no intel on the pollen despite the fact cells have chakra no matter how small and pollen contains cells to impregnate plants.

You know what hyperbole means right? Exagerrated statements not meant to be taken literally

yes i do. case in point, hashirama being stronger than every current shinobi is hyperbole as kabuto CANT POSSIBLY KNOW THAT. hes assuming based on the intel hes gathered thus far.

Hashirama's skills being so great that they were regarded as myth because no one believed a ninja could ever be that strong

same goes for pain. as i explained above. also that is kabutos opinion. ive never seen anyone else say "oh yeah that legendary shodai, his powers only a myth,he never beat madara. no way!" kishi shoved that in as hyerbole to hype up the madara/shodai fusion.

was a legit true thing Kabuto said, guy doesn't just randomly claim hyperbole or bullshit

case in point

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huh...

Or because people think that with hype Sakumo is on the level of the sannin and logically we infer that he can easily beat characters like Zaku and people are honestly curious to how they think Sakumo compares to other characters.

ok. with hype itachi and kabuto are invincible so putting them two against anyone is pointless speculation. sakumo had respect on the same level as a younger sannin in the second shinobi world war. back when they couldnt defeat hanzo together. so as it is his own hype has no way of being known as all that impressive as he was being compared to the sanin before they were the men who scared the shit out of kisame.

For a technique that easily burns down a mokuton forest it's sure having trouble burning through a few leaves on soem trees on a regular forest!

and it sure is easy burning right through and incinerating living plantmen made out of mokuton and countering webs that are unbreakable by normal steel weapons. and you want to talk cutting down forests? itachi cut down a bone forest stronger than steel in 1 panel.

Don't need to, they have no knowledge of Flower World so it's fine

dont need to, he has no knowledge of the majority of sasukes techs and itachis techs so its fine.

Thanks for posting that scan of Yamato though sinc anyone who isn't an idiot would agree that Hash9irama's mokuton is obviously stronger than Yamato's

yeah and as i pointed out, yamato restrained Kn4 and oro could not, but yamato feared orochimaru greatly

when has Itachi or Sasuke ever showed the physical strength to surpass KN4's who destroyed forests and created gigantic shockwaves by waving his hand?

why would they need to with their great eye powers?

Okay, then stop with the bullshit about Kurama being sealed seconds into the fight.

point me to where i said that

Neither do you

exactly. no one does

 

[Owarij]

You can't break genjutsu of darkness, that's what makes it powerful, 'no matter how powerful the ninja' that's straight from Kishi. So you're saying that its a weak genjutsu that's nearly impossible to escape? Then how is it a weak ass genjutsu? I can't believe I'm hearing this from you. You're not making sense. Goodnight.

Dude , i was talking about nirvana... Nirvana is the A rank that can be broken easily..

I know you can't break bod unless you touch the caster... But that's not what i'm talking about here.. Itachi is simply better than hashirama in genjutsu.. he's on shishui's level, they are decades away from others in genjutsu use... According to the databook, the skill of the caster and shariingan would decide what it can counter.... and with itachi's skill he can more than do it...

 

[Hattake Ryuzaki]

hashi very high diff

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

Kabuto knows his power and Madara knows his power. Madara and Hashirama were the strongest ninja of their time, and Kabuto claims no ninja from this time can compare to Hashirama

you know what else he said?

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and you know what he actually said? that no one is on the same level but thats what EVERYONE ELSE says.

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you know what isnt on the same level? ABOVE said level. and one of those people above that level is the man taking on naruto bee kakashi and gai at once by himself. a fact not known by kabuto at the moment. only one person has discovered the kinks and flaws of tobis teleporting/BFR/intangibility. and she is dead. so how could hashirama know or kabuto? only a few people know about tobi and the fact he has 7 bijuus who can spam bijuudama. so how could hashirama know or kabuto?

Not after Tsunade healed them.

as i said healing cannot replenish chakra only heal injuries.

As the paw proceeds to smash through the side of it rendering it useless

how when the pyramid carries a sealing jutsu capable of restraining even edo tenseis?

he can't use it before Itachi and Sasuke use their attacks

well he cant

See the link I posted where Amaterasu can't even burn through the leaves of trees fast

see the link i posted where amaterasu incinerates easily human sized plant clones made of mokuton.

Hashirama spreads whatever's burning onto the Uchiha Bros

who spread the flames onto that as well

Also he can just make more and more, his forest is much bigger than any katon

no it isnt. it can be but as soon as the fight starts, if his only defence is making wood, he will die

unfortunately Sasuke can't fly

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Cool, he scratches 3% of the mokuton and 3% is destroyed.

3% of what? as i keep telling you hes not doing this vs a fully formed forest. but only initial roots that hashi can make as the fight is only just getting started.

I guess you don't remember how the forest dwarfed the meteor and Susano'o is like a flea to the meteor.

i guess you dont remember that was madaras forest and he has unlimited chakra. wait for the anime and you will see he cant just summon up a football field sized forest in a nanosecond. not even madara can do that. and itachi and sasuke wont be like "herp maybe we should just stand here while he makes a rainforest even though we started out 10 metres from his face and can pierce his brain with chidori spear

His hands burn? Hashirama proceeds to launch mokuton from his hands

and is hit with alot more amaterasu, enough to cover a bijuu up in flames. since hashirama has no knowledge of enton, he tries to get rid of it failing due to sasuke manipulating it and dies to a chidori spear through the eye.

What are they going to do? It's too fast for him to do anything about

i know. thats why hashirama dies. enton is too fast, as is totsuka sword. itachi has formed susano in a grand total of one page and saved the lives of bee and naruto in the process and you think he cant do that here?

Right, and what genjutsu does Itachi have that isn't completely obvious you're in a genjutsu and works faster on Hashirama than before Itachi is dead again?

any genjutsu he has. the one he cast on sasuke and pretended to rip his eyes out was pretty good. in the finger genjutsu itachi can make anythign he wants happen inside hashirama's brain. maybe he can show hashirama itachi and sasuke using this

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so in genjutsu world, hashirama's like "lol pussies ran from me like kakuzu" and in the real world, hashirama has been impaled by a chidori spear to the eye.

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The pollen doesn't have chakra

everything has nature chakra. thats why its called nature chakra! pollen is microscopic cells and every single living thing in narutoverse has chakra no matter how little. if pollen is inanimate it wouldnt be what it is. which are living cells looking to have *** with another plant.

Amaterasu/Katons can't even burn through a small series of trees/forest

low end showings are bettered by the current ones. amaterasu was so hot that it is the only counter to muki tensei and therefore forces nature chakra to retreat.
sasuke used the heat of amat to help him use kirin.

Not fast enough? RIiiiiight.

madara =/= hashirama. also that amount of trees cannot stop the chidori spear that cut the giant tentacle nor teh totsuka blade.

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They have no knowledge

if so then your claims of hashirama fighting uchihas all his life is irrelvant since he has no intel on current uchiha abilities

Flower World counters with ease.

finger genjutsu makes hashirama think uchiha bros have already retreated. and flower world isnt instant.

 

[Joki]

or maybe i just choose to reply to the most egregious offenders of your post and counter them. i cant be sitting here arguing forever. snip

Bullshit, you purposely ignore the things I posted that kill your arguments, and you did the same thing here. I'm going to stop and say "I agree to disagree" especially for the same reason you do and I don't want to waste my time with the circular arguments and debate here forever.

Go back and actually address the flower world technique, Yamato's technique and the paragraphs you know damn well that I want a reply to and I'll counter the rest of your post.

Until then, I agree to disagree, you're fun to debate with and it was a good debate and in other threads you're notably one of the best members I've seen so far. But I'm not going to reply to every single point in your post only to have it reciprocated conversely in that every point I've hit the nail on the head is ignored. Not a good way to repay me when you know exactly which points I want countered and ignore them because they prove you wrong.

 

[home]

from hype, hashirama takes this high diff

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

You forgot about how he has to blink down extremely hard and blood drips, plenty of time much much slower

no it isnt. again your comparing immortal unlimited chakra madara/hashirama fusion's speed and power to alive hashirama on his own. which you should not do. in one panel sasuke cast a chidori spear that sliced through a gigantic tentacle. in one panel itachi had oro in genjutsu and sliced his arm off

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Again, Itachi or Sasuke aren't doing shit.

maybe against invincible madara but hashirama is much different

I've been extremely lenient when it comes to you just "skipping over" or ignoring the parts of my posts in your response that you can't counter. But I'd really appreciate it by this point if you didn't just ignore the key parts in my post in which you can't reply to and kill your argument

but i dont do that. i read everything. so i dont have to do shit. what is killing my argument? i counter every point you have.

Particularly the parts in which they have no knowledge or counter of Flower World

and thats just you not reading what i wrote. itachi still has his regular genjutsu that captured a sannin. so he doesnt need to blink down hard for EVERYTHING. if hashirama is not looking into their eyes then he is unable to tell if they are blinking or bleeding or ANYTHING. and amaterasu has only been dodged by one man.

Amaterasu can't even burn through regular trees

you ignored all the scans of it burning through things tougher than a few trees and how its heat repelled even kabutos muki tensie jutsu.

No, but it's confirmed fact that Hashirama's Mokuton techniques are as strong as Madara's

no it isnt. not even close. not even a little bit. how the hell can an alive human being be equal to an invincible immortal spamming the strongest techniques the narutoverse has ever seen without the slightest sign of sweat, while fused with the full power of his rival along with his own rinnegan?

You have absolutely no way to prove any of this that you said

wrong. kushina stated he gained control over nine tails. thats my proof. he did not defeat him in this case because if controlling something to do your will is defeating one then madara did exactly the same thing with his eyes.

I guess it's not too relevant since all he needs is Flower World

which isnt instant. so even if they go to sleep, they take hashirama with them via totsuka sword.

But Kakashi and Shisui aren't involved in this fight so...yeah

then you missed the entire point of what i was saying. every MS is different. even if hashirama was able to counter and defend against madara's he cannot know about whats different about itachi and sasuke's eyes.

Pretty much every technique involved Hashirama has knowledge of

wrong. hes never seen chidori (kakashi invented it), chidori spear, chidori senbons, kirin, susano arrow, amaterasu projectiles in the susano, amaterasu sword, enton in general, totsuka blade, yata defence, izanami, time warping tsukiyomi, finger genjutsu.
so the bros dont know about flower world. SO? hashirama doesnt know about 90% of their whole arsenal.

if he knows anything about basic Uchiha(considering he fought a plethora of them)then the second he sees the sharingan eye(implying the battle starts with eye contact and flower world doesn't cover their shit when the fight starts) he just looks away, simple

sure because every uchiha had uncounterable genjutsu and black flames coming out of their eyes....as soon as he looks away, he gets his hands and body set on fire. bit hard to make seals for flower world when your being burnt to death.

RM Clone by itself when his chakra was split in twelfths was keeping up with Itachi and soloing him

that was real naruto. and itachi was keeping up in taijutsu while not wanting to hurt naruto and vice versa

No susano'o? Then they get crushed by the forest or restrained by the mokuton since KN4 couldn't even break out of Yamato's and he can make huge shockwaves by waving his hand.

hashirama is murdered before he can make a forest. Kn4 was miles away from yamato and Kn4 couldnt move around. his methods for attacking oro were mostly the chakra arms and shockwaves.

. Itachi and Sasuke little to no physical strength to break out of these techniques.

hashirama little to no defence against breaking out of tsukiyomi or enton. his whole body cant turn into wood so he will be burnt to death. plus even if hashirama isnt looking at sasuke, sasukes looking at hashirama. one blink and hashirama's eyes are ON ****IN FIRE. hashirama needs to form seals to even attempt mokutons. theres no evidence he doesnt need seals. and no evidence he can form them faster than itachi whos seals were faster than even sharingan could keep up with.

Because he is? He could use techniques that blow up planets with the wave of a hand and still lose to Edo Konohamaru if he had no sealing techniques.

then that just proves hes inferior to kabuto. hashirama cant blow up planets and what you said had nothing to do with what i was saying which is that hashirama is not the strongest just because you claim he is

I direct you to the scans of flower world yet again

immortal unlimited chakra'd fusion of madara and hashirama =/= alive hashirama.

Nothing suggests the reversal will work on a tech of Hashi's caliber.

sharingan is stated to see through all genjutsus. itachis the greatest genjutsu master we've seen so far. since darkness is visual then itachi can still fight via his other senses or sasuke breaks him out. you keep forgetting hiruzen was alone and ddint have sharingan. we dont know its effects on master sharingan users.

This is relevant to Hashirama's being able to clap his hands together before Itachi does anything at all how?

hashirama without sharingan precog cant keep up if kakashi with it cant.

Nice way to completely avoid the fact that Flower World destroys the bros yet again

how is that a fact? your just spamming "flower world solos" when its only been used once, and also has been countered. every jutsu has a weakness - itachi uchiha. hashirama dies before he can summon flowers via burning to death or being cut in half by a chidori blade.

And yeah, he can make it and they can't do shit even if they didn't 'stand there and let it happen'

yes they can do shit. sasuke slices him in half with chidori blade, made in one panel at the end of his finger. itachi catches him in finger genjutsu. ive already proven jutsus are more powerful if your at 100% health and power.

Because that's a ninjutsu

chakra infused wind produced from a human is still wind.

Besieds, Danzo's fuuton did break through Sasuke's Susano'o.

at its base, when he found a small weak point. they are ninjas. they can let down a small gap open for air at the base of the susano if they need to. doesnt matter. hashis dead before they run out of air.

Exactly! I said if anything Hashirama's would be superior, but this is you right here outright admitting that Hashirama's flower world=Madara's. Tsunade knew "This is the same technique as my grandfather's!",

exactly. she never said it was stronger or weaker because obviously an invincible immortal with unlimited chakra is stronger than a living breathing human

"This is my grandfather's technique but this one is stronger". She knew what it was

lol they are in a fight. whether its stronger or weaker really wasnt important. it was still huge. mei said "he created a huge forest in an instant!" meaning no one has done it before. otherwise why so surprised? actually scratch that. tsunade said its the same technique as her grandfather without knowing if it was stronger or weaker because HOW THE FLOCK WOULD SHE EVEN BE ABLE TO COMPARE? she did not live in her grandfather's era. he died fairly young. so she has nothing to compare it to other than the stories that hiruzen told her. and hiruzen never said "oh this mokutons really got me good. too bad we are in this barrier or i would really be screwed". he took it in stride and countered. never caring if it was stronger or weaker than alive hashiramas jutsus.

Also, it was thanks to Tsunade's knowledge they could avoid the flower world...except they still breathed it!

because madara had intel as well and knocked them into it wiht his susano fist. she didnt say "dont breath at all" she said "dont inhale the pollen".

except in terms of Mokuton techniques Madara still can't compare

your right. he cant compare because theres no one to compare ot. hes above everything.

Thanks for making another strawman argument and taking everything I said out of context. I meant the dude created the Madara ET not the jutsu

madara created his edo tensei power, not kabuto. kabuto made the fusion but madara had hashiramas power already.
madara 560: dont misunderstand. you didnt create this power.

And it was never again implied that Madara's Mokuton Techniques surpassed Hashirama's.

i havent seen hashirama do anything on the scale of edo madara. it wasnt implied he HADNT surpassed him. he surpassed everyone else and has unlimited pool of chakra to draw from

Again, you admitted yourself that Yamato is a "lesser clone", Madara merely took his cells, his Mokuton is weaker than Hashirama's

he took his power. sure he had to "relearn" how to use the power but he has it. proof his mokutons weaker please. if you cant prove that, shut up.

Unfortunately he can't slice through the entire forest

unfortunely he slices through hashiramas brain before a forest could be created.

Lol did you seriously just say that. "Hashirama doesn't know that he's not supposed to tank the giant ethereal sword coming at his face" Yeah, you make a lot of sense dude.

i do indeed. hashirama probably thinks he can tank anything via regeneration.

Madara has about 60% of the ability that Hahirama has. At best he has 75%.

how do you know? do you have proof?

Remember how Tsunade thought is impossible for him to recreate the flower world?

she thought it impossible for him to have mokuton at all seeing as how madara as far as she knows was not orochimarus lab rat like yamato. most people have died after having shodai cells put into them

Amatarasu only burns the focused point. And is limited to that small area.

it was focusing on an entire huge bijuu and was burning that large area of the bijuus skin and the surrounding area. re read sasuke vs bee

Katon can't do crap to his trees.

fire > wood

And a susanoo arrow would not kill him.

even people who can regenerate will die if they get a huge ethereal arrow through the face.

How are they going to Amatarasu him when they are so far away?

OP never specified a starting distance

Blaze release takes a lot of chakra

sasuke used it with ease vs kabuto and hes not even breathing hard.

and it is not nearly as fast as you guys keep saying it is.

its instant as it ignites what the user looks at. only V2 A dodged it

5 Kage level are dropped. Sasuke and Itachi are high Kage level but they could not withstand this.

because madara knocked them into the area. sasuke has a hawk and long range jutsus to begin with

Now as for the hawk.

You must be registered for see links

"in an instant"

yeah no. invincible unlimited madara =/= hashirama

Hashirama has fought Gen users

i have not seen anyone that hes fought (kakuzu, madara) use a genjutsu as strong as what itachis capable of or a gen user who can cast one through his finger.

And again he can just deflect those and move there hit.

good luck with that (concentrating on deflecting susano arrow while countering whatever itachis doing)

Tsyukiyomi is going to be useless because how is Itachi going to use it when the whole time he is being attacked?

totsuka blade then

And Mokuton clones are not the same as kage bushin clones they are not 1 hit KO.

narutos kage bunshins in KCM dont disappear with one hit.

And here is sasuke dodging Amatarasu.

from a sick itachi with no kill intent

he fought madara who also has tsukiyomi.

only itachi has shown tsukiyomi out of every being in the manga that exists

hashirama sprouts trees or wood from his body to push amaterasu off his body, then he would heal himself.

and if it covers his whole body via sasukes enton? and how will he heal from a chidori spear cutting its way through his head like it did to bees tentacle in one panel?

hashirama is stronger than the uchiha brothers

no he isnt

this is not even considering mokuton clones or the flower tree world

both are useless

comes out and grows wood from his arm to hit them in the range of the flower tree world

sasuke says "lol you fell for it" and cuts hashirama in half with chidori blade

hashirama can also make mokuton come up from under susano, pull the brothers out and make them inhale the pollen.

itachi reactivates susano as soon as hes pulled out and totsuka one panels hashirama.

It doesn't just burn anything nor does it spread.

it burns what it touches and never stops till its incinerrated. enton spreads it.

And Itachi does not have enough chakra to spam Amatarasu like sasuke does.

lol at relying on itachis low chakra levels when hashirama has much worse things to worry about like totsuka blade

Kirin can be blocked and avoided.

by what? it DESTROYED itachis susano which is a better defence than a bunch of freaking trees. its stated you cant avoid it because of how fast it is.

First of all He can protect himself with trees and go underground.

hes never seen kirin before. how will he have time for that?

Or better yet he could just heal. Lightning can only kill if it causes cardiac arrest or severe burns

kirin destroyed a mountain. id say it will kill because it obliterated hashirama to pieces.

And again how are they going to escape from Flower world?

will people stop using this jutsu as a crutch? it can be destroyed. it can be prevented by either genjutsu or killing hashirama before he can make the seals for it.

Either they do not escape and they get crushed

by what? yata mirror reflects ninjutsu.

And you think a hawk is going to support susanoo?

its a chakra barrier. it has no weight.

And again, the arrows can have their projection changed with a tree.

yeah and while hashiramas concentrating on that, the other uchiha brother blindsides him and cuts his head off

How is he getting though the forest or the spores or the clones?

hashirmaa never showed he can use multiple clones

Genjutsu that can be broken out of easily.

and before he breaks out of it, his arms are sliced off (watch itachi vs orochimaru). no more seals, no more trees.

Susanoo arrows = Hashirama healing

impaling through the head > narutoverse healing jutsus. they arent invincible.

The only way to kill someone who can heal is to take off their head

well can they regenerate limbs? because canceling jutsu use is easy once youve stopped him using both hands by cutting one off.

And the finger genjutsu is not that powerful. Hashirama can get out if it. The only person he used it on was Naruto who he knows was a crappy gen. user.
it takes anyone time to get out of it. orochimaru took a panel to raise his hands to get out of it and in that instant, itachi cut his arm off. while hashiramas preocuppied of being caught in a genjutsu once he realises it is in fact a genjutsu, he will have his head removed from his body by totsuka.
i shudder to think what itachi could have done to all his opponents had he been truly evil and wanting all of them dead as quickly as possible.

And I countered Kirin. it would not kill him

itachi used susano to block and it still destroyed it. sasuke stated its not avoidable, and it crushed a mountain. lightning element attacks in narutoverse arent like lightning in real life. they destroy shit.

show me where the finger jutsu has beat a Kage level ninja.

show me where mokuton has beat a kage level ninja. see? it works both ways. it only seems to be less powerful because itachi was at 30% when he used it on naruto.

Why would he need 25 clones? 10 will suffice

he can only make 1.

Amatarasu can be avoided

by the very fastest of the fast ninjas. hashirama has no speed feats

Oh yeah tell me how they are going to keep from getting knocked out from the pollen again.

finger genjutsu + chidori blade to the face.

the clones will overwhelm him.

what clones?

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

Madara said that he only had a bit of Hashirama's power holding on to him.

making shit up are we? he said some power, not a bit. he could mean "some great power".

Prove that the finger gen. can beat a Kage level ninja.

no one said it can defeat a kage. but it can trap someone long enough for itachi to cut their arm off. it takes time just realising your in a genjutsu at all.

itachi isnt catching any kage level ninjas in finger genjutsu. why did he not do this to tobi, the man he wanted to kill. all he had to do was point a finger at him.

tobi is not a kage level. hes a super s class ninja who itachi didnt want to defeat or he would have used totsuka or izanami

sasukes susano arrows arent covered in amaterasu.

he wont need amaterasu covered arrows. he already has projectiles that are amaterasu capable of incinerating zetsus

hashirama would just make a tree come from his arm to divert them.

and die as well since itachi would have shoved a totsuka sword up his ass while hes so worried about diverting an arrow.

the conditions at the uchiha hideout were perfect for kirin.

because sasuke made it that way

hashirama would outlast itachis izanami

ok. tell me how he breaks out at all

you think he wanted to fight tobi? when he inteded on dieing by sasuke's hands?

tobi wanted to destroy/control everything itachi loves. itachis evil if he doesnt want to take him down for this.

Show us where finger gen beats a kage

show us where flower tree world defeated onoki

2.Sasuke can do some awsome things with chidori but he is not taking an entire forst on with just chidori.

thats why he kills him before he forms a forest. a long ass chidori sword vs some hastily formed trees thinner and weaker than bees tentacle.

he would restrain susanos arms with mokuton.

sasuke burns off the trees with enton

sasukes amaterasu yasaka magatamas get blocked by a wood walls.

what about chidori blade then? totsuka?

when hashirama makes 25 mokuton clones

scans of him doing so?

you also have no proof that itachi or sasuke can see through the clones.

they are as strong as EMS madara, and he saw through A clone, not clones

genjutsu reversal worked so well with tayuyas genjutsu right oh wait....

comparing a senjutsu enhanced sound based genjutsu to a normal visual genjutsu...

madara is the strongest uchiha in history

no he isnt. not anymore. itachi and sasuke have better MS feats by far

The clones will not get taken out easily

yes they will against the uchiha bros

Databook never stated it only works for low level genjutsu I dare you to cite that..

i also want a citation

when sasuke and itachi is distracted doing this they get put to sleep by the flower tree world.

only sasuke will be distracted. itachi will be focused on buying sasuke time, not standing around

itachi needs to see hashirama to hit him with izanami

citation?

25 mokuton clones basically negate it.

it would if hashirama was capable of 25 clones

hashirama would sprout wood from his body to push amaterasu off of him.

sasuke puts it back on him. this time in hashiramas eyes

itachi cant even see through regular kage bunshins

he knew kakashi was a clone actually. kakashi didnt even say anything or give any hitn he wasnt the real kakashi and itachi realised it on his own

 

[Barugo no Rushian]

I have enough confidence in the combined efforts of Itachi Uchiha and Sasuke Uchiha to vote in favor of Itachi/Sasuke. However, this would be an incredibly difficult encounter and one that could not possibly be taken lightly by either side.

 

[TobisPawn]

Terribly old bump. Yikes

 

[Icelerate]

Sasuke stomps with no difficulty.

However when the thread was first made, Hashirama would win low difficulty.