Hashirama vs Itachi and Sasuke

[USSJ Future Trunks]

Pages of Goryuuka's ability to burn through a forest please, it's a small fireball

Even outside of the attack range, its power and reliability are stressed. The flames have a high temperature, as they can create an upward movement of air currents which in turn can give rise to thunder clouds. A master of this technique can fire off several flames in succession and anyone caught in the technique could potentially be reduced to ashes
Third Databook, page 235

Except how A cut his arm from the damage and wasn't fazed by it

A has a high tolerance of pain. tobi and bee screamed and moaned after being hit by it. nagato had to regenerate and use shinra tensie after being hit.

Please, sir please, show me pages where Amaterasu has ever been used to the ridiculous level to burn something as big as the meteor and thick as the mokuton when it didn't even burn through Karin's clothes, samurai armor and a regular forest.

amaterasu burns through chakra based substances easily. sasukes fireball for one. it oneshotted a bunch of zetsus instantly who are made of hashirama cells

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. it forced edo nagato to regenerate minutes after being hit

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. it oneshotted pains summons

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obviously its more powerful the stronger an uchiha becomes and burns faster. the examples you pointed out were from sick itachi and novice sasuke. still sasuke spread it enough to effectively oneshot bee even though he barely escaped. the scale of the flames makes the mokuton unusable evne if it doesnt incinerate them. amaterasu countered kidomarus webs since bladed weapons couldnt cut them

you seriously believe Amaterasyu will burn through a Mokuton forest the size of the meteor

no as hashiramas never shown that so i dont have to worry about it. but i expect it to burn

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Hashiramqa simply directs it onto Sasuke and Itachi,

did you forget they can turn off small sections of a large amaterasu blaze if it hits an ally?

considering none of that can get all the way through the Mokuton forest

what forest? as we saw the forests take time to make but susano arrow was shown to be incredibly fast and susano is quick to activate. and lol if kirin cant get through a bunch of trees. chidori spear easily cut giant biiju tentacles.

Scans of Susano'o reaching inside itself to stop Itachi or Sasuke from being impaled from below?

i meant smashing the trees before they reach them. sasuke can form a single susano fist and ribs so it is a simple matter to defend against what your suggesting.

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Besides, Goryuuka smashes through that stuff and it has never ever burned things like that, neither has any katon tech ever used in the manga

lol if it cant blow away pollen then why does uchihas use fireballs at all?

took Onoki's jinton to spin around to literally destroy all the flowers in the area, that shit's not going to fly when itachi or Sasuke have no techniques like that

it took onoki to destroy madara's edo powered rinnegan powered version. actually yes they do. one slash of totsuka and all the trees are in half and effectively unable to produce anything. sasuke has kirin which is what the dragon fire spam is for.

Near instant, read my last post about pressure

read my post about only nagato being able to notice the pressure as hes a sensor

Time and chakra. Hashirama has plenty of all of that, if by "time" you mean "all he has to do is clap his hands together"

no it isnt as i pointed out

Let alone chakra enhanced mokuton forest by one of the strongest shinobi in Naruto existence.

who is up against two of the strongest shinobi in narutoverse

He's a ****ing senju and the strongest shinobi to ever live bar the Rikudou Sage

hype is worthless. and no kabuto is the strongest even taking into account hype, hes totally unbeatable with edo tensei

one of the greatest shinobi to ever live's

again with the hype? you do know its only peoples opinions that he was? he hasnt proven himself yet?

why would he run out of chakra making a forest or flower world"

why would you pretend to know exactly how much chakra he has when his only fight was as an immortal edo?its uzumakis who have the special gigantic chakra levels and life force(naruto, nagato, kushina). senjus were named so because they are jacks of all trades. never specialising in anything.

So we're using part 1 feats again.

so we're using hashirama feats which is what your supposed to do when its hashirmaa who is fighting

Tobirama is an ET, and Edo Tensei makes you invulnerable so ET Tobirama is stronger than original Tobirama"

so someone whos not immortal and never tires > someone who does? without a sealing technique, even SM naruto would EVENTUALLY lose to edo shin or edo haku. since theres no stopping or killing them.

He only has the required cells to do the mokuton of Hashirama, but the point is, both Madara and Kabuto were hyping Hashirama to the highest degree.

jiraiya and raikage did that for minato. people are so quick to just jump on the bandwagon of whoever is latest on the "strongest people" list. kabuto explained he was invincible and madara was the strongest possible edo tensei ever. madara has had the cells since VOTE so duno what you mean. the hashi face was already there otherwise madara would be like "ZOMG A ****IN FACE ON MY CHEST" when he saw it.

If Hashirama's level of Mokuton was lower than what Madara's doing currently Kabuto wouldn't be hyping Hashirama

kabuto's not exactly paying attention to madara here. hes busy with itachi.
kabuto admits he doesnt know what madara can do which is why he asks madara to show him.

It's not 'on panel feats' that should be used in these fights involving characters like Hashirama

because of your hashirama fanboyism and the hype of two peoples opinions? if he lived today or we got a flashback maybe id take said hype as fact.

Implying 'one of the greatest shinobi to exist' will have trouble breaking out of a genjutsu that you can freely move inside. It was weak as to where the basic "partner transfers you chakra" method easily broke it,

your forgetting that itachi can keep one in that finger genjutsu indefinitely as long as what he puts into it is at least seemingly real. hashirama will never notice hes in a genjutsu because he lacks the sharingan or byakugan to notice the changes in his chakra and he will be so cocky in the fact he didnt look itachi in the eye to figure it out in time. this is a 2 vs 1 fight. id understand if it was 1 vs 1 it wouldnt be a game breaker. but time is crucial here. and once itachi informs hashiramas trapped then its susano arrow to the face time. hashirama wont notice the arrow as in his mind he thinks everything after he saw itachis finger was reality.
yes even great warriors can fall to simple tricks. itachi fell for sasuke's replacement. nagato got hurt by paper bombs. itachi was caught by tayuyas genjutsu. as long as its only for a moment, its effective. darkness doesnt paralyse or slow you down in any way or change your perception of reality. you can still hear smell, feel, use doujutsu. its basically if hashirama put a blindfold on their heads.

He couldn't hold back Hidan with his shadows and when he did he held him for basically a few seconds at a time, 2 minutes into the fight of trying to capture Hidan he was creating a river of sweat. He's not holding back Sakura with his shadows

implying a jounin level akatsuki member who fought against kakashi in taijutsu is equal to sakura.

It wouldn't be so hyped that Hashirama beat EMS Madara+Kurama in the manga if he simply never fought Kurama

but its not hyped.

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its common knowledge that the site of hashirama vs madara was VOTE. and that hashirama won. but no one is like "zomg he beat them both at the same time therefore hes strongest". he was called strongest because he can CONTROL the damn things not defeat them. the only being who can fight toe to toe with a bijuu and live without special controlling techniques is 3rd raikage

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. so dont tell me hashirama fought it toe to toe.

unless you know you can show some on-screen stuff of where it was said Mito was in that battle of VotE or where Mito had the power for any of that.

thats not my job as i dont pretend to know anything about what actually happened. all we were told is mito sealed it in herself to better aid hashirama. but why would it better aid him if he can controll all bijuu perfectly by himself?

when has either Itachi or Sasuke ever displayed the skill to put control over Kurama? when they displayed skill to put under control bee, kabuto, kakashi, each other etc and the fact that itachi said if he got EMS hed be stronger than EMS madara. sasuke should be too. i dont see why sasukes EMS prowess would be so incredibly lower than madara's.

it puts you inside a pitch black 'virtual reality'

only hiruzens vision was affected. he could stil hear smell and fight. according to him the darkness was problematic not a oneshot gambreaker hax.

uy might have not even had any jutsu and talking out of his ass lol, point is I'm just emphasizing "you can't assume" and why Hashirama is so hax, because we're supopsed to be allowed to accept the kinds of things or else putting Hashi in matches is pointless and retarded.

it already is. people are putting in sakumo and tobirama in matches for gods sake. if we are supposed to accept any and all hype then kabuto being in matches is retarded as he is "invincible". and putting itachi in matches is retarded as yata mirror "beats any and all attack".

Give me <scan of something we know obviously happened but

how do you know it happened?

besides there's your on panel link of him doing it right there.

HES NOT DOING IT. he has ahold of kurama's ankle so he can restrain him long enough for him to gain control. from minato we can assume madara didnt have control over kurama as he can only do it for a short time

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. after that short time kurama was fair game and hashirama gained control over him, using him to fight

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.

in that panel was holding him back and holding his own,

i like how you take him holding onto his ankle as holding his own when kurama clearly wasnt even slowing down

They were both all bloody as I said, and since you say it's the "beginning of the fight", gee, Hashirama sure summoned up quite a lot of wood(lol wood) so fast so he won't have trouble doing it in this fight.

ok so it was the middle of the fight. how do you know madara summoned kurama IMMEDIATELY?

No, the Contract Seal. Frees the Kurama from Madara's control

madara lost control all on his own. otherwise minato wouldnt say "ok so if hes madara he has a short time before he loses control over the fox" because that is how it apparently happened. minato couldnt wait for this to happen so he used his special sealing prowess taught to him by an uzumaki

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he had a village to rescue.

Er.. what? Onoki just took the meteor head on

meteor probably weighed only a few tons at best since onoki successfully lightened it. the lightened one took the full force of the second one

It didn't give him a special power to control Kurama.

no because he doesnt have mokuton! hashirama doesnt need the seal since madara lost control over kurama all on his lonesome possibly due to the strain of maintaining the genjutsu while at the same time fighting hashirama senju.

it'd really help with his development if he could kill him right now with 1 rasengan that barely puts craters in the wall against a Rinnegan user with every technique and made the moon. But yeah.

as you pointed out, rikudo sage could be a nobody who didnt split any bijuus or created any moon

Madara is going to let him stop, calmly tell Kurama that he's too powerful to be let free in the world so he's going to be sealed?

yes. again this is kishi lol. itachi was like "this is totsuka, any last words?" this is hashiramas version. kurama was too powerful to run free (ergo he wasnt being controlled by madara. further evidence madara freed kurama on his own without the help of any contract seal). or why say "roam free"? unless this was some post madara fight where hashirama later gained control over him. but if that were the case why did kushina say he got control DURING the battle? and how on earth did mito tell her somethign so specific when the battle itself was BARELY common knowledge. sasuke didnt even know who madara was. whatever happened was known to few and forgotten by most like madara himself.

I've seen at least 5 RS threads and like 5 Hashirama threads, people use them in fights I'm sure they don't expect the people posting to say "hurr, Hashirama only has scans from part 1 and anything else is speculation and since hype is stupid he loses by default" or "hurr RS might not even exist we dont even have scans of him on panel so he loses by default"

those people are just trolls. i maintain most hypes unreliable when trying to decide whod actually win in a fight since different abilities can lose to weaker ones

Tsunade put her hands against them and they went to full health,

but not full power. healing has never completely restored anyones chakra IMMEDIATELY otherwise why did karin still fear for sasuke after getting healed by her? why did he even need recovery time post deidara if he can go back to full health and power immediately? same with when naruto stays in bed for days when sakura healed him already

Kurama's "leg*" is comparable to the huge summons in the series, and implying that Itachi or Sasuke have anywhere near that power. Kurama isn't "ripping towards" him either, Hashirama's clearly holding his own.

by making alot of trees and surrounding his ankle? so gaara can hold his own vs kurama by making lots of sand?

katon burning down a forest scan please

madara declared hed turn his mokuton to coal and made a giant katon

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are you saying fire DOESNT burn forests?

Totsuka having AoE and thickness like Onoki's jinton please.

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how will the guy even have knowledge of the pollen before it's too late?

how will hashirama have knowledge of finger genjutsu before its too late?

Susano'o doesn't defend against air particles

wind jutsus couldnt go through it so chakra based air cannot go into it. unless the pollen acts like normal poison gas but even poison gas isnt created by a chakra based mokuton

"should be able to" that's the point, if we're using on panel evidence only that's 100% purely speculation, you have pretty much no idea how the technique works and you're trying to act like you know what the technique does and this is how it works

exactly. how can anyone expect to use the sage or hashirama when they are 99% hype and we dont have evidence of speed feats, seal making speed feats, what chakra cost the jutsus have, their weaknesses etc? your supporting me by saying all this, not going against it. all we know about flower tree world is how madara used it.

>fights EMS Madara and war against Uchiha
>won't know what to do when he sees a sharingan, Mangekyou Sharingan and/or blood from eye

itachis fought countless opponents and your saying he wouldnt know who hashirama is and how to form a counter for hashirama knowing what he might do?
and your still going against yourself. you go on a rant when i said "should be able to" but speculate about the uchihas that hashirama fought and what ems madara can do.

Hashirama>Madara

then why is madara the ultimate being and second sage of six paths/fusion of himself and shodai? if you dont like who you are, you take from others. madara took from shodai and surpassed him.

So what if he was about to die, he had to get rid of the genjutsu to win

no he didnt. he didnt get rid of it and still won. he didnt dodge kusanagi because he knew he was gonna die

God of Shinobi

if your gonna bring that up then itachi is "completely invincible"

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by your logic we can't use any of that hype whatsoever, even you're using it.

by your logic hashirama can defeat anyone because kabuto said so even though

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and because he got the "god of shinobi" in genjutsu even though hiruzen lacks sharingana dn therefore its a hundred times harder for him to see through it.

Yeah, I guess in the middle of a battlefield that a huge meteor just destroyed everything, and spawned countless roots from nowhere in an instant that took 1000 Chou Odama Rasengan to destroy. I wonder where those came from.

madara's rinnegan chakra.

Except where each time they burst from the ground extremely fast,

and in that fast time, it will be like a snail's pace to sharingan's precog. in that time, finger genjutsu + susano. sasuke formed ribs in like 2 panels. he formed full susano in a second at most

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and you act like hashriama can make a fully formed forest bigger than a meteor in less than that time. when edo madara/hashirama fusion with rinnegan =/= hashirama.

Amaterasu or Goryuuka has never burned down a forest either nor killed anyone.

it killed pains summons instantly, and defeated bee pretty easily. it "killed" edo nagato.

Hashirama>Madara

i hope you didnt mean invincible immortal unlimited chakra rinnegan ems madara fused with hashirama's face < hashirama

surrounds it with Mokuton, what do you think happens

smashed by susano fist after full susano goes back to rib + fist. they can do that you know.

besides Hashirama fought 100% Kurama, KM Naruto is 50% Kurama transformed.

one of the frogs said kurama would be completely revived if it sprung free from naruto once again. even though he has half of him sealed its possible he regained his full power over time. just like bijuus cant die, they only revive at a later date.

Ok let me guess, you're going to want panels where Hashirama's mokuton came out from under the ground.

it came out where hashirama wants it to. but good luck exploiting that when the susano can go from a full one to a basic rib + arm in a second. sand > wood in restraining power.

Gaara gets crapped on by Madara/Hashirama

no he doesnt lol. what fanfiction are you saying now?

Kabuto knowing about Naruto is irrelevant,

you keep saying kabuto said no current shinobi can fight hashirama on equal terms but how is he supposed to know intimately about each and every current shinobi's current power level? last he saw narutos power it was a clone 1/13th the original's power and it was KCM.

Naruto/Tobi both destroy Itachi/Sasuke

i know that. all the more reason why naruto/tobi > itachi and sasuke > hashirama

even if those guys didn't pale in comparison to Hashirama.

which they dont

Hashirama who has fought more battles and more Uchiha than both Sasuke and Itachi combined

so that means hes automatically their perfect counter? even though no uchiha has the same power and all have unique mangekeyos? at best hashirama fought against two MS users who probably relied solely on that. itachi and sasuke have more than just their genjutsus, amaterasu and susano.

He probably has fighting ability

stopped reading there

Obviously it is not that easy to use and it uses more than enough chakra to hurt him

if its sick itachi. it isnt

Itachi could only use so much of his MS techniques and can not last long enough in this battle.

did you see what he did against sauske in a weakened state trying not to kill sasuke?
several genjutsu exchanges, tsukiyomi, several fireballs, amaterasu, susano, totsuka, susano again.

Itachi (nearly healthy) could only manage a few Amatarasu's and a Tsukiyomi.

really....

You act like either of the Uchiha bro's are going to get close enough. Do you not get that Hashirama has an entire forest?

unless he starts witha forest, no. OP didnt specify that. MS techs are way more instant than mokuton

His clones could run around and have fun while he sits back making more and Doing techniques

since when has hashirama shown taijuu kage bunshin? because madara has? maybe madara just uses it because he can as an edo and maybe hashirama made the tech forbidden before madara's defection.

Sasuke does not have unlimited chakra

he has shown absolutley no fatigue in the kabuto duel. despite using susano practically for the whole fight, and at least 2 large amaterasus. he questioned if itachi could still maintain susano knowing itachis an edo and cant die of chakra drain.not unlimited but sasukes chakra pool is now damn good.

Neither Itachi or Sasuke are going to be able to do anything about the flower world.

even if one is taken out by it, the other will get it, hold their breath and set it on fire. no matter if the mokuton itself can resist, flowers wont. hashirama cant do anything about finger genjutsu which is as deadly.

Do you think either of them are going to just start blasting off Amatarasu and katon just because they are getting drowsy?

yes. onoki fired a jinton because he was, and sharingan can see chakra particles. since pollens made from the chakra, sharingans perception can tell its clearly a gas headed right for them.

5 Kages>Brothers

irrelevant

. Sasuke was already owned by Kage one by one and Itachi could not do it.

you talk as if novice in-training MS sasuke without full susano, susano arrow, or amaterasu shurikens or itachi's power (yes sasuke felt itachis power flowing into him when he recieved his eyes) is equal to current sasuke.

As for Kirin. If he gets it off then kudos to him although him actually preforming it is near impossible

sasuke was gonna do it CASUALLY to murder team 7

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And again the flower world would pretty much be the end. They would not know and would fall asleep and game over.

wrong answer. hashirama probably could get them in flower world. but not before he realises hes in a finger genjutsu already

Totsuka will not do anything and can be restrained easily by mokuton.

totsuka slaughtered eight branches technique like it was nothing, slashing away its giant heads. if it gets restrained, itachi turns off susano and goes to the rib + fist version to smash it apart.

Oonoki got out of it because Madara let him and the other's live.

madara intended on all of them falling asleep. otherwise the technique has a flaw if someone can breath it in and still resist. its not like madara controls what the pollen does and how far it travels.

Tskuyomi will not even be a problem considering that he will not even be close enough for Itachi to use it

because OP never specified a starting distance. if he wants to he can make it 1m or 10 km.

Hashirama has fought a ton of Uchiha who have genjustsu

how do you know? and besides regular genjutsu dont compare to MS ones. itachis tsukiyomi cannot be defeated by non uchihas.

And how is sasuke going to use kirin when he is knocked out or dead?

how is hashirama gonna use flower world when hes in a genjutsu? its very hard to not look at someones hand/finger in a battle where watching seals and predicting is everything.

And he does not have to look anybody in the eyes to see a giant susanoo fire off an arrow and redirect it with a tree.

unless he has SM/sharingan perception he wont even know what the arrow is or if he can redirect it in time. kakashi had nanoseconds to go to MS and warp it and he only barely did that in time.

Hashirama is not going to stand around and do nothing.

if hes relying on tree shield like you think he will, hes a sitting duck

And Susanoo can only do so much at once and it would be impossible for either of the susanoo to deal with that many branches

then they will turn off the susano till its just the rib/fist version and break out

He can just have his clones relay information on what they are doing the whole time

you talk as if its confirmed hashirama knows taijuu mokubunshin

 

[Gèckö]

Cause its a instant win and Hashirama isnt immune to genjutsu
And why do stupid people hop on the Hashirama bandwagon cause of 1 or 2 peoples opinion

If you ask me thats more stupid

I didn't say he was immune read please
i asked how do you know he would get caught in genjutsu and did he lose to madara- no!
Madara had genjutsu
Watch what people you call stupid
And its not the preson its the things they say/do exp^^^your comment:shrug:

 

[TheSages456]

this nonsense has gone on long enough.

genjutsu- hashirama fought uchihas all his life and the number 1 rule to fighting uchihas is to not look in their eyes. if hashirama got caught in uchiha genjutsu then he wouldve died. if you think genjutsu has any relevance in this fight then i feel sorry for you.

amaterasu- the moment a blood is seen dripping down itachi or sasukes face, a wood wall is sprung up. he could also sprout wood from his body if he is hit and then heal himself.

susano- hashiramas mokuton is strong enough to restrain 100% kurama. dont say but oh restraining bijuu is his specialty. mokuton doesnt suppress the chakra, the moment it gets ahold of them. restraining susano with mokuton wouldnt be a problem. mokuton would restrain its arms and body so it doesnt break the branches by swinging its sword. hashirama can also make mokuton branches come out from under susano, pull them out and make them inhale pollen from the flower tree world. if the brothers decide to engage in close combat with ribcage susano, hashirama can make mokuton clones to aid him. he could also fight them by growing wood from his arms and body.

izanami- this tech will only last as long as their is light in itachis sharingan. it seens that this tech decides the fate of the opponent by putting them in an endless loop for the duration of the technique.

 

[Owarij]

this nonsense has gone on long enough.

genjutsu- hashirama fought uchihas all his life and the number 1 rule to fighting uchihas is to not look in their eyes. if hashirama got caught in uchiha genjutsu then he wouldve died. if you think genjutsu has any relevance in this fight then i feel sorry for you.

amaterasu- the moment a blood is seen dripping down itachi or sasukes face, a wood wall is sprung up. he could also sprout wood from his body if he is hit and then heal himself.

susano- hashiramas mokuton is strong enough to restrain 100% kurama. dont say but oh restraining bijuu is his specialty. mokuton doesnt suppress the chakra, the moment it gets ahold of them. restraining susano with mokuton wouldnt be a problem. mokuton would restrain its arms and body so it doesnt break the branches by swinging its sword. hashirama can also make mokuton branches come out from under susano, pull them out and make them inhale pollen from the flower tree world. if the brothers decide to engage in close combat with ribcage susano, hashirama can make mokuton clones to aid him. he could also fight them by growing wood from his arms and body.

izanami- this tech will only last as long as their is light in itachis sharingan. it seens that this tech decides the fate of the opponent by putting them in an endless loop for the duration of the technique.

that izanami thing was NEVER stated in the manga, once the person is in it, they are caught in the infinite loop and can't escape, that's that... if itachi labels their destiny as "Hashirama dies" It won't end till he dies ,
Like itachi most likely labeled it as "Kabuto releases edo tensei"

That's when it will end, and the only way to stop it...


susanno restrained bijuu's because he can supress bijuu chakra.. idk how many times that has to be stated in the manga... His moukouton can be cut by their susannos since it cut through kimmimaro's dense iron bone

amaterasu, 1) noone answered me, if he isn't looking at their face and eyes, how is he seeing blood dripping down from BOTH of them?


Aerial susanno arrow attacks from his hawk etc from susanno, what counter can hashirama bring up if he can't see them coming ?

f you think genjutsu has any relevance in this fight then i feel sorry for you.

Urm . You realize itachi has non eyesight genjutsu? Finger genjutsu and ephermal, what's his counters? once he's put in them, he first has to realize he's in it, and since itachi can simulate reality perfectly, what's he going to do? Itachi can behead him easily.. sasuke can amaterasu him easily.. do you get my point? Hashirama is losing this

 

[TheSages456]

that izanami thing was NEVER stated in the manga, once the person is in it, they are caught in the infinite loop and can't escape, that's that... if itachi labels their destiny as "Hashirama dies" It won't end till he dies ,
Like itachi most likely labeled it as "Kabuto releases edo tensei"

That's when it will end, and the only way to stop it...


susanno restrained bijuu's because he can supress bijuu chakra.. idk how many times that has to be stated in the manga... His moukouton can be cut by their susannos since it cut through kimmimaro's dense iron bone

amaterasu, 1) noone answered me, if he isn't looking at their face and eyes, how is he seeing blood dripping down from BOTH of them?


Aerial susanno arrow attacks from his hawk etc from susanno, what counter can hashirama bring up if he can't see them coming ?



Urm . You realize itachi has non eyesight genjutsu? Finger genjutsu and ephermal, what's his counters? once he's put in them, he first has to realize he's in it, and since itachi can simulate reality perfectly, what's he going to do? Itachi can behead him easily.. sasuke can amaterasu him easily.. do you get my point? Hashirama is losing this

izanami only lasts as long as there is light in itachis sharingan. by this logic danzo couldve kept using izanagi even when all his sharingan closed. hashirama can keep an eye on both itachi and sasuke with mokuton clones. people seem to disregard that hashirama can use clones. susano arrows are deflected by hashirama growing a tree from his shoulder like danzo. why didnt itachi use this god-like finger genjutsu at the beginning of the kabuto fight when kabuto didnt block his own vision? hashirama can counter amaterasu by sprouting wood from his body anyway.

 

[Bogard]

amaterasu, 1) noone answered me, if he isn't looking at their face and eyes, how is he seeing blood dripping down from BOTH of them?

I think Amaterasu is not a jutsu that could work against Hashirama. We've seen through Yamato and Danzo that they were able to pull tree branches from their own body and seperate it. So i suppose that Hashirama even if he gets touch by Amaterasu, he could simply push Amaterasu away from his body by building tree branches on the part of his body which get caught by the jutsu.

Also for Izanami and Izanagi he must know it. He has fought Uchihas all his life and even the most powerful than them(Madara), who i think could also use these jutsus. After all it's not a jutsu Itachi created, but a forbidden jutsu from Uchiha clan. Tobi also can do that i think. He has already show he can do Izanagi and Izanami works in pair like Itachi said.

 

[Wolfang714]

Hashirama beat Madara, who also had Tsukuyomi.

No. If that's the case then that means Shisui had Tsukuyomi, which everyone knows isn't true. Mangekyou abilites differ from person to person, Madara did not have Tsukuyomi nor Amaterasu, or even Blaze Release.

 

[Owarij]

izanami only lasts as long as there is light in itachis sharingan. by this logic danzo couldve kept using izanagi even when all his sharingan closed. hashirama can keep an eye on both itachi and sasuke with mokuton clones. people seem to disregard that hashirama can use clones. susano arrows are deflected by hashirama growing a tree from his shoulder like danzo. why didnt itachi use this god-like finger genjutsu at the beginning of the kabuto fight when kabuto didnt block his own vision? hashirama can counter amaterasu by sprouting wood from his body anyway.

IZANAMI isn't IZANAGI, don't use what you saw with danzo as basis for this jutsu.... They are TWO differen't things... Itachi's words were that he will never escape the jutsu..
at the cost of your eye, you put the person in an infinite loop untill they accept their destiny,there is nothing about untill his eye loses light...don't try underplaying the jutsu at all please


You totally ignored his finger genjutsu btw


Itachi had no reason to do it.. he needs to get information from kabuto, finger genjutsu can't do that ,


I'll wait for your counter for his genjutsu, unless that is? you have none?

Also for Izanami and Izanagi he must know it. He has fought Uchihas all his life and even the most powerful than them(Madara), who i think could also use these jutsus. After all it's not a jutsu Itachi created, but a forbidden jutsu from Uchiha clan. Tobi also can do that i think. He has already show he can do Izanagi and Izanami works in pair like Itachi said.

How could he know it? Madara , izuna NEVER used it... or they would have lost their eyes.. it was forbidden...

 

[TheSages456]

IZANAMI isn't IZANAGI, don't use what you saw with danzo as basis for this jutsu.... They are TWO differen't things... Itachi's words were that he will never escape the jutsu..
at the cost of your eye, you put the person in an infinite loop untill they accept their destiny,there is nothing about untill his eye loses light...don't try underplaying the jutsu at all please


You totally ignored his finger genjutsu btw


Itachi had no reason to do it.. he needs to get information from kabuto, finger genjutsu can't do that ,


I'll wait for your counter for his genjutsu, unless that is? you have none?




How could he know it? Madara , izuna NEVER used it... or they would have lost their eyes.. it was forbidden...

hashirama wouldnt look at his finger when itachi tries to cast it. why did itachi not use this on nagato then. itachi isnt catching any god tier characters in the weak finger genjutsu that naruto almost broke.

 

[Bogard]

How could he know it? Madara , izuna NEVER used it... or they would have lost their eyes.. it was forbidden...

Madara wasn't the only Uchiha who existed. It's a forbidden jutsu. How do you think Uchiha knew that this technic must be forbidden? Cuz some Uchihas maybe used this jutsu before and became blind. There were many battles between Uchihas and Senjus. They could have use that at that time.

For the finger genjutsu you mention above, i personally think it's not strong enough to put a high and experimented ninja who control his chakra very well in it. It only worked on Naruto cuz he was unexperimented in genjutsus. Why do you think Itachi never used this type of genjutsu against another opponent? He used it against Naruto cuz he thought Naruto was the one who was the most easier to fall for it. But during the genjutsu, he even said he was surprise cuz he has grown a little bit but not enough. Itachi is not the only one who can use his body to cast genjutsus. It's like saying that the genjutsu Kakashi used against Sakura in part1 will work against Hashirama, or Kurenai genjutsu also, or Kabuto?

Especially when you know that Hashirama is a strong genjutsu user himself. With his bringer of darkness for example, Itachi will see nothing, so use of genjutsus are useless.

 

[narutownsyouall]

Even outside of the attack range, its power and reliability are stressed. The flames have a high temperature, as they can create an upward movement of air currents which in turn can give rise to thunder clouds. A master of this technique can fire off several flames in succession and anyone caught in the technique could potentially be reduced to ashes
Third Databook, page 235

A has a high tolerance of pain. tobi and bee screamed and moaned after being hit by it. nagato had to regenerate and use shinra tensie after being hit.

amaterasu burns through chakra based substances easily. sasukes fireball for one. it oneshotted a bunch of zetsus instantly who are made of hashirama cells

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. it forced edo nagato to regenerate minutes after being hit

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. it oneshotted pains summons

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obviously its more powerful the stronger an uchiha becomes and burns faster. the examples you pointed out were from sick itachi and novice sasuke. still sasuke spread it enough to effectively oneshot bee even though he barely escaped. the scale of the flames makes the mokuton unusable evne if it doesnt incinerate them. amaterasu countered kidomarus webs since bladed weapons couldnt cut them

no as hashiramas never shown that so i dont have to worry about it. but i expect it to burn

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did you forget they can turn off small sections of a large amaterasu blaze if it hits an ally?

what forest? as we saw the forests take time to make but susano arrow was shown to be incredibly fast and susano is quick to activate. and lol if kirin cant get through a bunch of trees. chidori spear easily cut giant biiju tentacles.

i meant smashing the trees before they reach them. sasuke can form a single susano fist and ribs so it is a simple matter to defend against what your suggesting.

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lol if it cant blow away pollen then why does uchihas use fireballs at all?

it took onoki to destroy madara's edo powered rinnegan powered version. actually yes they do. one slash of totsuka and all the trees are in half and effectively unable to produce anything. sasuke has kirin which is what the dragon fire spam is for.

read my post about only nagato being able to notice the pressure as hes a sensor

no it isnt as i pointed out

who is up against two of the strongest shinobi in narutoverse

hype is worthless. and no kabuto is the strongest even taking into account hype, hes totally unbeatable with edo tensei

again with the hype? you do know its only peoples opinions that he was? he hasnt proven himself yet?

why would you pretend to know exactly how much chakra he has when his only fight was as an immortal edo?its uzumakis who have the special gigantic chakra levels and life force(naruto, nagato, kushina). senjus were named so because they are jacks of all trades. never specialising in anything.

so we're using hashirama feats which is what your supposed to do when its hashirmaa who is fighting

so someone whos not immortal and never tires > someone who does? without a sealing technique, even SM naruto would EVENTUALLY lose to edo shin or edo haku. since theres no stopping or killing them.

jiraiya and raikage did that for minato. people are so quick to just jump on the bandwagon of whoever is latest on the "strongest people" list. kabuto explained he was invincible and madara was the strongest possible edo tensei ever. madara has had the cells since VOTE so duno what you mean. the hashi face was already there otherwise madara would be like "ZOMG A ****IN FACE ON MY CHEST" when he saw it.

kabuto's not exactly paying attention to madara here. hes busy with itachi.
kabuto admits he doesnt know what madara can do which is why he asks madara to show him.

because of your hashirama fanboyism and the hype of two peoples opinions? if he lived today or we got a flashback maybe id take said hype as fact.

your forgetting that itachi can keep one in that finger genjutsu indefinitely as long as what he puts into it is at least seemingly real. hashirama will never notice hes in a genjutsu because he lacks the sharingan or byakugan to notice the changes in his chakra and he will be so cocky in the fact he didnt look itachi in the eye to figure it out in time. this is a 2 vs 1 fight. id understand if it was 1 vs 1 it wouldnt be a game breaker. but time is crucial here. and once itachi informs hashiramas trapped then its susano arrow to the face time. hashirama wont notice the arrow as in his mind he thinks everything after he saw itachis finger was reality.
yes even great warriors can fall to simple tricks. itachi fell for sasuke's replacement. nagato got hurt by paper bombs. itachi was caught by tayuyas genjutsu. as long as its only for a moment, its effective. darkness doesnt paralyse or slow you down in any way or change your perception of reality. you can still hear smell, feel, use doujutsu. its basically if hashirama put a blindfold on their heads.

implying a jounin level akatsuki member who fought against kakashi in taijutsu is equal to sakura.

but its not hyped.

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its common knowledge that the site of hashirama vs madara was VOTE. and that hashirama won. but no one is like "zomg he beat them both at the same time therefore hes strongest". he was called strongest because he can CONTROL the damn things not defeat them. the only being who can fight toe to toe with a bijuu and live without special controlling techniques is 3rd raikage

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. so dont tell me hashirama fought it toe to toe.

thats not my job as i dont pretend to know anything about what actually happened. all we were told is mito sealed it in herself to better aid hashirama. but why would it better aid him if he can controll all bijuu perfectly by himself?

when has either Itachi or Sasuke ever displayed the skill to put control over Kurama?
when they displayed skill to put under control bee, kabuto, kakashi, each other etc and the fact that itachi said if he got EMS hed be stronger than EMS madara. sasuke should be too. i dont see why sasukes EMS prowess would be so incredibly lower than madara's.

only hiruzens vision was affected. he could stil hear smell and fight. according to him the darkness was problematic not a oneshot gambreaker hax.

it already is. people are putting in sakumo and tobirama in matches for gods sake. if we are supposed to accept any and all hype then kabuto being in matches is retarded as he is "invincible". and putting itachi in matches is retarded as yata mirror "beats any and all attack".

how do you know it happened?

HES NOT DOING IT. he has ahold of kurama's ankle so he can restrain him long enough for him to gain control. from minato we can assume madara didnt have control over kurama as he can only do it for a short time

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. after that short time kurama was fair game and hashirama gained control over him, using him to fight

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.

i like how you take him holding onto his ankle as holding his own when kurama clearly wasnt even slowing down

ok so it was the middle of the fight. how do you know madara summoned kurama IMMEDIATELY?

madara lost control all on his own. otherwise minato wouldnt say "ok so if hes madara he has a short time before he loses control over the fox" because that is how it apparently happened. minato couldnt wait for this to happen so he used his special sealing prowess taught to him by an uzumaki

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he had a village to rescue.

meteor probably weighed only a few tons at best since onoki successfully lightened it. the lightened one took the full force of the second one

no because he doesnt have mokuton! hashirama doesnt need the seal since madara lost control over kurama all on his lonesome possibly due to the strain of maintaining the genjutsu while at the same time fighting hashirama senju.

as you pointed out, rikudo sage could be a nobody who didnt split any bijuus or created any moon

yes. again this is kishi lol. itachi was like "this is totsuka, any last words?" this is hashiramas version. kurama was too powerful to run free (ergo he wasnt being controlled by madara. further evidence madara freed kurama on his own without the help of any contract seal). or why say "roam free"? unless this was some post madara fight where hashirama later gained control over him. but if that were the case why did kushina say he got control DURING the battle? and how on earth did mito tell her somethign so specific when the battle itself was BARELY common knowledge. sasuke didnt even know who madara was. whatever happened was known to few and forgotten by most like madara himself.

those people are just trolls. i maintain most hypes unreliable when trying to decide whod actually win in a fight since different abilities can lose to weaker ones

but not full power. healing has never completely restored anyones chakra IMMEDIATELY otherwise why did karin still fear for sasuke after getting healed by her? why did he even need recovery time post deidara if he can go back to full health and power immediately? same with when naruto stays in bed for days when sakura healed him already

by making alot of trees and surrounding his ankle? so gaara can hold his own vs kurama by making lots of sand?

madara declared hed turn his mokuton to coal and made a giant katon

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are you saying fire DOESNT burn forests?

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how will hashirama have knowledge of finger genjutsu before its too late?

wind jutsus couldnt go through it so chakra based air cannot go into it. unless the pollen acts like normal poison gas but even poison gas isnt created by a chakra based mokuton

exactly. how can anyone expect to use the sage or hashirama when they are 99% hype and we dont have evidence of speed feats, seal making speed feats, what chakra cost the jutsus have, their weaknesses etc? your supporting me by saying all this, not going against it. all we know about flower tree world is how madara used it.

itachis fought countless opponents and your saying he wouldnt know who hashirama is and how to form a counter for hashirama knowing what he might do?
and your still going against yourself. you go on a rant when i said "should be able to" but speculate about the uchihas that hashirama fought and what ems madara can do.

then why is madara the ultimate being and second sage of six paths/fusion of himself and shodai? if you dont like who you are, you take from others. madara took from shodai and surpassed him.

no he didnt. he didnt get rid of it and still won. he didnt dodge kusanagi because he knew he was gonna die

if your gonna bring that up then itachi is "completely invincible"

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by your logic hashirama can defeat anyone because kabuto said so even though

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and because he got the "god of shinobi" in genjutsu even though hiruzen lacks sharingana dn therefore its a hundred times harder for him to see through it.

madara's rinnegan chakra.

and in that fast time, it will be like a snail's pace to sharingan's precog. in that time, finger genjutsu + susano. sasuke formed ribs in like 2 panels. he formed full susano in a second at most

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and you act like hashriama can make a fully formed forest bigger than a meteor in less than that time. when edo madara/hashirama fusion with rinnegan =/= hashirama.

it killed pains summons instantly, and defeated bee pretty easily. it "killed" edo nagato.

i hope you didnt mean invincible immortal unlimited chakra rinnegan ems madara fused with hashirama's face < hashirama

smashed by susano fist after full susano goes back to rib + fist. they can do that you know.

one of the frogs said kurama would be completely revived if it sprung free from naruto once again. even though he has half of him sealed its possible he regained his full power over time. just like bijuus cant die, they only revive at a later date.

it came out where hashirama wants it to. but good luck exploiting that when the susano can go from a full one to a basic rib + arm in a second. sand > wood in restraining power.

no he doesnt lol. what fanfiction are you saying now?


you keep saying kabuto said no current shinobi can fight hashirama on equal terms but how is he supposed to know intimately about each and every current shinobi's current power level? last he saw narutos power it was a clone 1/13th the original's power and it was KCM.

i know that. all the more reason why naruto/tobi > itachi and sasuke > hashirama

which they dont

so that means hes automatically their perfect counter? even though no uchiha has the same power and all have unique mangekeyos? at best hashirama fought against two MS users who probably relied solely on that. itachi and sasuke have more than just their genjutsus, amaterasu and susano.

stopped reading there

if its sick itachi. it isnt

did you see what he did against sauske in a weakened state trying not to kill sasuke?
several genjutsu exchanges, tsukiyomi, several fireballs, amaterasu, susano, totsuka, susano again.

really....

unless he starts witha forest, no. OP didnt specify that. MS techs are way more instant than mokuton

since when has hashirama shown taijuu kage bunshin? because madara has? maybe madara just uses it because he can as an edo and maybe hashirama made the tech forbidden before madara's defection.

he has shown absolutley no fatigue in the kabuto duel. despite using susano practically for the whole fight, and at least 2 large amaterasus. he questioned if itachi could still maintain susano knowing itachis an edo and cant die of chakra drain.not unlimited but sasukes chakra pool is now damn good.

even if one is taken out by it, the other will get it, hold their breath and set it on fire. no matter if the mokuton itself can resist, flowers wont. hashirama cant do anything about finger genjutsu which is as deadly.

yes. onoki fired a jinton because he was, and sharingan can see chakra particles. since pollens made from the chakra, sharingans perception can tell its clearly a gas headed right for them.

irrelevant

you talk as if novice in-training MS sasuke without full susano, susano arrow, or amaterasu shurikens or itachi's power (yes sasuke felt itachis power flowing into him when he recieved his eyes) is equal to current sasuke.

sasuke was gonna do it CASUALLY to murder team 7

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wrong answer. hashirama probably could get them in flower world. but not before he realises hes in a finger genjutsu already

totsuka slaughtered eight branches technique like it was nothing, slashing away its giant heads. if it gets restrained, itachi turns off susano and goes to the rib + fist version to smash it apart.

madara intended on all of them falling asleep. otherwise the technique has a flaw if someone can breath it in and still resist. its not like madara controls what the pollen does and how far it travels.

because OP never specified a starting distance. if he wants to he can make it 1m or 10 km.

how do you know? and besides regular genjutsu dont compare to MS ones. itachis tsukiyomi cannot be defeated by non uchihas.

how is hashirama gonna use flower world when hes in a genjutsu? its very hard to not look at someones hand/finger in a battle where watching seals and predicting is everything.

unless he has SM/sharingan perception he wont even know what the arrow is or if he can redirect it in time. kakashi had nanoseconds to go to MS and warp it and he only barely did that in time.

if hes relying on tree shield like you think he will, hes a sitting duck

then they will turn off the susano till its just the rib/fist version and break out

you talk as if its confirmed hashirama knows taijuu mokubunshin

This is just trolling.

First of all Hashirama had the wood clones considering that Madara stated that he was the only one who could see through them.

Hashirama has fought better Uchiha than Itachi and sasuke. Madara.

Another thing is this.

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Sasuke after being healed had about the same amount of chakra as Itachi has. Now considering this. Itachi's chakra level is pretty much this and as for his susanoo and his MS techniques. He can do about as much as sasuke here does.

And why the faq would Hashirama even look at the Uchiha. All he would have to do is start flower world and its pretty much over.

And how many Kage and beyond level ninja's has the Finger gen worked on? thats right 0

And MS being faster than Mokuton? Did you forget the danzo fight? And considering that Hashirama is better at mokuton than danzo and danzo summoned a tree to change projection of a susanoo arrow in the time between firing and hitting it.

Hashirama is just on a much larger scale than the Uchiha bro's

 

[Owarij]

hashirama wouldnt look at his finger when itachi tries to cast it

Sure he wouldn't.. just making up bs ways to escape the jutsu..

when any ninja starts using handseals, ninjas look at the handseals to try and read what jutsu it is, what element it is etc before they use it... Hashirama has NO reason not to look at itachi's fingers, nor does he even knw itachi has finger genjutsu.

why did itachi not use this on nagato then. itachi isnt catching any god tier characters in the weak finger genjutsu that naruto almost broke.

Was nagato even focusing on itachi? no, itachi amaterasu'd him, then kabuto was there listening to their convo.. there was no time in that fight when nagato was really looking at itachi..

And once again, the excuse that just because the person didn't use it is rediculous... i can show you 500 manga scans in which characters didn't use certain jutsu that they could have

Madara wasn't the only Uchiha who existed. It's a forbidden jutsu. How do you think Uchiha knew that this technic must be forbidden? Cuz some Uchihas maybe used this jutsu before and became blind. There were many battles between Uchihas and Senjus. They could have use that at that time.

For the finger genjutsu you mention above, i personally think it's not strong enough to put a high and experimented ninja who control his chakra very well in it. It only worked on Naruto cuz he was unexperimented in genjutsus. Why do you think Itachi never used this type of genjutsu against another opponent? He used it against Naruto cuz he thought Naruto was the one who was the most easier to fall for it. But during the genjutsu, he even said he was surprise cuz he has grown a little bit but not enough. Itachi is not the only one who can use his body to cast genjutsus. It's like saying that the genjutsu Kakashi used against Sakura in part1 will work against Hashirama, or Kurenai genjutsu also, or Kabuto?

Especially when you know that Hashirama is a strong genjutsu user himself. With his bringer of darkness for example, Itachi will see nothing, so use of genjutsus are useless.

No one would have used it if it was forbidden.. How many years of konoha went by that noone used their forbidden jutsu? , Uchiha and senju existed long before madara and hashirama.. as you said.. if they listed the jutsu forbidden, people wouldn't have been going around using izanami..

For the finger genjutsu you mention above, i personally think it's not strong enough to put a high and experimented ninja who control his chakra very well in it.

What are you talking about? ANY genjutsu, no matter how weak can work on opponents.. the entire idea of genjutsu is undodgeable.. Kurenai got itachi with her little weak genjutsu.. it doesn't matteer..

Hashirama WILL get affected by the genjtusu.. and in the time he takes to break it he will get his head sliced off.. same thing that happened with orochimaru



EDIT: Don't you understand? ALL genjutsu affect opponents. no matter how weak.. tayuya's weak little sound genjutsu will work on a gnejutsu maaster like itachi..IT DOESN'T matter..

The weaker it is however , the easier it is to break.. that's all.. but every genjutsu will work regardless..

Itachi has heaven and earth reversal to send hashirama's bringer of darkness right back at him if he uses it on them.....

And why the faq would Hashirama even look at the Uchiha. All he would have to do is start flower world and its pretty much over.

How is that pretty much over? amaterasu the flower , simple//

 

[narutownsyouall]

Sure he wouldn't.. just making up bs ways to escape the jutsu..

when any ninja starts using handseals, ninjas look at the handseals to try and read what jutsu it is, what element it is etc before they use it... Hashirama has NO reason not to look at itachi's fingers, nor does he even knw itachi has finger genjutsu.


Was nagato even focusing on itachi? no, itachi amaterasu'd him, then kabuto was there listening to their convo.. there was no time in that fight when nagato was really looking at itachi..

And once again, the excuse that just because the person didn't use it is rediculous... i can show you 500 manga scans in which characters didn't use certain jutsu that they could have

Oh well then I guess Itachi just does the jazz hands around and wins every single battle.

Gee he should have just done this to Kabuto and Tobi and hell while he was at it he could have just went to every battle in the war and jazz hands Madara and everyone else.

Oh wait he also could have done it to all the Uchiha who wanted to turn on the village.

WOW you made me understand that Itachi is invincible.

Stop trying to say that a Hokage is going to get caught in a low level genjutsu as your only argument. How are they going to deal with the flower world or fight the nativity world. How about we throw in some clones and see how they fight Kage level clones that all use mokuton and regeneration.

Seriously overating Itachi here.

 

[Owarij]

Oh well then I guess Itachi just does the jazz hands around and wins every single battle.

Gee he should have just done this to Kabuto and Tobi and hell while he was at it he could have just went to every battle in the war and jazz hands Madara and everyone else.

Oh wait he also could have done it to all the Uchiha who wanted to turn on the village.

WOW you made me understand that Itachi is invincible.

Stop trying to say that a Hokage is going to get caught in a low level genjutsu as your only argument. How are they going to deal with the flower world or fight the nativity world. How about we throw in some clones and see how they fight Kage level clones that all use mokuton and regeneration.

Seriously overating Itachi here.

are you retarded? finger genjutsu doesn't control people...

Doing it on kabuto wouldn't accomplish what he wanted, which was to find out how to end edo tensei

Nagato was not paying attention to itachi for that entire fight, he was focused on bee and naruto


No matter what level the genjutsu is, and btw you HAVE no proof that that genjutsu was even low level,
It will affect every ninja..
Handseal genjutsu are all unavoidable..

It doesn't just hit you and bounce off... The weaker the genjutsu it easier to break but that's that... Tayuya can cast the weakest genjutsu ever and it wil still hit a master.... Itachi used his reversal to get rid of it...


Tobi with sharingan can see through and break out of it easily, just like sasuke and deidara..

Unfortunately hashirama doesn't have sharingan to aid in seeing through genjutsu does he?

 

[Owarij]

And how many Kage and beyond level ninja's has the Finger gen worked on? thats right 0

Honestly the dumbest logic i've ever seen,

How many Kage level shinobi has KA worked on in this manga? yeaaa, so is ka a failure that can't be used on ninja?

How many shinobi has danzo's wind shruiken thingy hit in this manga? 0, does that mean it's a failure?

Try again with hashirama's counter for genjutsu please

 

[~Uzumaki~]

Sasuke can fly above flower tree world with hawk and prepare Kirin by setting Hashirama's forest on fire and using the heat. No counter for Kirin. Unless he tricks them with Wood Clone and the real Hashi goes underground. I give Hashi, if he fought a bijuu like Kurama then he must have a way to deal with TBB level of power.

 

[TheSages456]

Honestly the dumbest logic i've ever seen,

How many Kage level shinobi has KA worked on in this manga? yeaaa, so is ka a failure that can't be used on ninja?

How many shinobi has danzo's wind shruiken thingy hit in this manga? 0, does that mean it's a failure?

Try again with hashirama's counter for genjutsu please

ka is obviously stated to be the strongest genjutsu in the manga. it worked on mifune at the kage summit.

 

[narutownsyouall]

are you retarded? finger genjutsu doesn't control people...

Doing it on kabuto wouldn't accomplish what he wanted, which was to find out how to end edo tensei

Nagato was not paying attention to itachi for that entire fight, he was focused on bee and naruto


No matter what level the genjutsu is, and btw you HAVE no proof that that genjutsu was even low level,
It will affect every ninja..
Handseal genjutsu are all unavoidable..

It doesn't just hit you and bounce off... The weaker the genjutsu it easier to break but that's that... Tayuya can cast the weakest genjutsu ever and it wil still hit a master.... Itachi used his reversal to get rid of it...


Tobi with sharingan can see through and break out of it easily, just like sasuke and deidara..

Unfortunately hashirama doesn't have sharingan to aid in seeing through genjutsu does he?

Its not unavoidable.

And how are either of them going to deal with the flower world?

You guys act like Hashirama is going to sit there and say oh gee i love getting raped come here guys ive been waiting

 

[silmarill]

Like Hashirama will ever fall to a finger genjutsu -.-
srsly he raped uchihas all his life , u people telling me no1 of them ever tried a genjutsu on him?
God the naivety and hypocrisy is just wow around here

 

[TobisPawn]

Itachi is not an edo.

Yeah, I know. But he's at full health (I should have included that in the OP).

Hashirama who has fought more battles and more Uchiha than both Sasuke and Itachi combined knows about their genjutsu. He probably has fighting ability on par with might guy who learned to fight without look at eyes.

He's only fought one or two MS/EMS users (Madara and Izuna). We don't know if any of them had Blaze Release, and we know for sure that none of them had the Sword of Totsuka or Yata Mirror. Plus, I doubt any of them were as smart as Itachi, or had Izanami.

Sure he can look at their legs, but he won't see Amaterasu or Susanoo Arrows coming at him then. Therefore, he dies almost instantly.

How many people have actually been one shot by Tsukiyomi? Kakashi, Maybe Oro and Sasuke as a kid. Obviously it is not that easy to use and it uses more than enough chakra to hurt him. Itachi could only use so much of his MS techniques and can not last long enough in this battle.

1. Kakashi - Tsukuyomi (passed out)
2. Sasuke - Tsukuyom9 (passed out)
3. Sasuke pt. 2 - Tsukuyomi (broke free, but only a Sharingan user can)

And he's at full health, therefore more MS techs.

How many people have actually fought Itachi, seriously?
Itachi (nearly healthy) could only manage a few Amatarasu's and a Tsukiyomi.

How many people have actually fought Itachi seriously?

1. Kakashi - Tsukuyomi (passed out)
2. Sasuke - Tsukuyom9 (passed out)
3. Sasuke pt. 2 - Tsukuyomi (broke free, but only a Sharingan user can)

And nearly healthy my ass. He had been plagued by illness for a long time.

You act like either of the Uchiha bro's are going to get close enough. Do you not get that Hashirama has an entire forest? His clones could run around and have fun while he sits back making more and Doing techniques.

If Hashirama is looking at their feet (as you say), they don't have to get close. He can get one-shot by Amaterasu, Susanoo Arrows, or Kirin. Even a simple Fire Release. His clones won't be able to do much against Amaterasu, and Itachi (very fast), can get to the real Hashirama. Or either of the bros can hit him with Amaterasu while the other fights the clones.

We don't even know if Hashirama can make as many clones as Madara.

Neither Itachi or Sasuke are going to be able to do anything about the flower world. Do you think either of them are going to just start blasting off Amatarasu and katon just because they are getting drowsy?

Sasuke can summon a hawk and fly in the air to avoid it. The Kages took a while to pass out, and Sasuke was able to summon Manda quickly against Deidara. Summoning a hawk to avoid it should be easily like that. Then he can hit Hashirama (no eye contact) with Amaterasu, or occupy him till Itachi gets up.

5 Kages>Brothers. How in the hell is Sasuke going to do anything about dust release? And Itachi's Susanoo will not stand a chance against 5 kage. He does not have enough chakra. Sasuke was already owned by Kage one by one and Itachi could not do it.

Yeah, and Hashirama is not > than the 5 Kages. Madara is edo, has the Rinnegan, and has Mokuton now. Of course he'll feel a difference in power from when he was alive.

Nativity trees were stopped by the adimantine staff. Without that what are they going to do? They could try to make a huge fireball but how many times do you think they can do that? Rasengan is much more powerful and Naruto had to use fox chakra to stop it. Unless they had katon on the level of Madara they are screwed. Now I could see them getting past this.

I don't know, maybe Katon (fire release) or Amaterasu? Madara (EMS) obviously survived many encounters with Hashirama, so two MS/EMS users can too. Two Katon users should be about equal to EMS MADARA's Katon. Madara has had a significant power boost as a edo.

That also means that Hashirama's Mokuton probably wasn't as good as Madara's size-wise (as seen in Part 1 too).

If Hashirama activates BOD then Sasuke makes a amata-ring he is just wasting chakra. Sasuke does not have unlimited chakra and his eyes started bleeding again meaning he has a limit.

Anyone has a limit. Its just a side-effect of Amaterasu that the eyes bleed. Sasuke has used Amaterasu almost continuously sometimes, so one Amaterasu ring won't harm him. And, as said before, he can use a Kirin on the battlefield (while Itachi uses Susanoo) so Hashirama has to either get killed, or avoid and end the Genjutsu. Though I doubt anyone can avoid Kirin.

As for Kirin. If he gets it off then kudos to him although him actually preforming it is near impossible. But Hashirama not only can lessen the blow but lightning is fatal only from injury and can only burn and cause cardiac arrest which Hashirama's Senju body which is full of life can help him and he could heal from it.

Preforming it is near impossible? Seeing that there will be TWO MS users (Amaterasu?), also using Katon (FIRE) to counter Mokuton, the heat will be generated in no time. And if Hashirama won't see Kirin coming (he'll be looking at their legs, right?) Kirin should one shot him. You can't heal yourself if you've been fried to a crisp, and killed instantly. And/OR in the time he takes to recover, Itachi can speed blitz him or hit him with an Amaterasu or Sword of Totsuka.

And again the flower world would pretty much be the end. They would not know and would fall asleep and game over. Oonoki got out of it because Madara let him and the other's live. He has been messing with them the whole time he could have ended the battle right there and plenty of times before that

The Kages took a little while to fall asleep (with Madara heating the place up), so Sasuke should be able to summon a hawk (as fast as against Deidara), and fly away. And note that Hashirama's Mokuton was not and probably is not on the same scale as Madara's. And if they do happen to start getting drowsy, Sasuke or Itachi can hit him w/Amaterasu while he's too busy looking at their legs.

Tskuyomi will not even be a problem considering that he will not even be close enough for Itachi to use it and its not that easy for someone to actually get caught since the only people who have had this happen were looking him in the eyes from like 10 ft. and Hashirama has fought a ton of Uchiha who have genjustsu including Madara who has amazing genjutsu. Obviously he knows how to fight without looking them in the eyes.

I doubt distance matters for Tsukuyomi. And Itachi has a "5" in speed, letting him get near Hashirama anyway.

And how do you know that Madara has amazing Genjutsu? Itachi's Tsukuyomi is so far unrivaled, and only an Uchiha can break it.

And remember Madara was probably the only MS user Hashirama ever fought, or one of the only good ones (no other Uchiha is famous).

AND if he's not making eye contact with even one brother, Amaterasu can hit him through the other brother. Hashirama is simply at a disadvantage because he's handicapped in a 2 on 1, and because of Itachi's Tsukuyomi preventing him from making eye contact.

Amatarasu is good for fighting him but again how are they going to get close enough? And Itachi can not spam it. Sasuke can control it to some point but they will not be fighting just Hashirama do not forget that there are clones!

Amaterasu hasn't shown to have a certain distance which it can appear from. And a healthy Itachi probably can. And controlling it (Blaze Release) doesn't matter; Only A dodged an Amaterasu formed right on him, with his V2 armor. Hashirama doesn't have that speed. And if he's not making eye contact, he won't see it coming.

As for the clones: One brother distracts them (preferably Itachi) with Susanoo (spiritual weapons) and Amaterasu, while the other (Sasuke) hits Hashirama, who's not making eye contact, with Amaterasu formed right on him, or a Susanoo arrow (only Kamui was able to avoid it).

And He could push it out of his body and heal.

And he does not have to look anybody in the eyes to see a giant susanoo fire off an arrow and redirect it with a tree.

Yeah, but the burns will stay from before. And the wood would burn even more, in fact. And while he's busy pushing it out and healing: Susanoo Arrow or Amaterasu to the face.

And Mokuton comes from underground as in underneath susanoo which would kill them. And Susanoo can only do so much at once and it would be impossible for either of the susanoo to deal with that many branches. The mirror only protects from jutsu not trees that can just move around it. And you do not need to look in someones eyes to see what a susanoo is doing. Hashirama is not going to look at the ground the whole time and He can just have his clones relay information on what they are doing the whole time. He can move just like zetsu does because its just mokuton.

Sasuke and Itachi can jump in the air. And if Hashirama's looking at their feet, Itachi and Sasuke can Amaterasu or Susanoo Arrow him while he's forming the hand seals for Mokuton. Blaze Release can burn off Mokuton binding the Susanoo.

If Hashirama isn't looking at the ground, where will he look? If he tries looking at the Susnaoo's arms (Susanoo Arrows), he'll probably end up looking the bros in the eyes too. And clones can also be Genjutsu'd or Amaterasu'd, if you haven't noticed.

And Zetsu isn't even a human, he's literally Mokuton. Hashirama can't do what he can; Yamato and Madara can't.

Totsuka will not do anything and can be restrained easily by mokuton. Hashirama is not going to stand around and do nothing.

Amaterasu or Sasuke's Blaze Release can easily defeat Mokuton that's binding Susanoo. The bros won't just stand around either.

And how is sasuke going to use kirin when he is knocked out or dead?

LMFAO nice assumption, that's been proven false. You think Sasuke will just stand around and let himself die?

Hello? Susanoo? Blaze Release? Amaterasu? Susanoo Arrows? Lightning Release? Fire Release? :sy:

Kirin is good but Itachi can not keep up susanoo for long and will easily be overwhelmed. And he could just go underground like zetsu does through the roots. Zetsu is able to travel incredible distances and has been considerd fast.

Kirin is good; Hashirama has no damn counter to it. Only a Susanoo was able to withstand it, and Hashirama won't even see it coming (not making eye contact).

We're talking about a healthy Itachi. When he was on his deathbed, he kept a perfect Susanoo for a good amount of time against Sasuke.

And no, he can't do what Zetsu does. Zetsu is literally some Mokuton/DNA hybrid. Hashirama is human with Wood Release. Big difference.

Hashirama is too much.

Not necessarily, as by what I've shown.

Its not unavoidable.

And how are either of them going to deal with the flower world?

You guys act like Hashirama is going to sit there and say oh gee i love getting raped come here guys ive been waiting

Not making eye contact, he'll probably be raped, even if he doesn't stand around (Susanoo Arrow).

Like Hashirama will ever fall to a finger genjutsu -.-
srsly he raped uchihas all his life , u people telling me no1 of them ever tried a genjutsu on him?
God the naivety and hypocrisy is just wow around here

He's fought what, one MS user? And we have no proof that Madara's Genjutsu is nearly as good as Itachi's Tsukuyomi.

The naivety on Hashirama's side is amazing here. He's not a damn god. Especially not against two MS/EMS using prodigies.