[Spoilers] Hashirama defeated Madara? Unbelievable!
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Re: the first hokage how could he ever beat madara
Firstly, he beat Kakuza. It's the reason he turned on the people who had sent him on the mission to assassinate him because he had failed them in being unable to do so. Secondly, the Harashima used against the Hiruzen was not the real thing but just an animated corpses with his same jutsu's and less chakra.
Firstly, he beat Kakuza. It's the reason he turned on the people who had sent him on the mission to assassinate him because he had failed them in being unable to do so. Secondly, the Harashima used against the Hiruzen was not the real thing but just an animated corpses with his same jutsu's and less chakra.
Re: the first hokage how could he ever beat madara
and i also don;t believe that the Summon Hokage of Oro was very strong, they both got beaten by the third wjo was old. (no really that guys was way to old)
I always tought that Kakazu beated the first.... can you link me that part were it is confirmed plz.
and i also don;t believe that the Summon Hokage of Oro was very strong, they both got beaten by the third wjo was old. (no really that guys was way to old)
Re: the first hokage how could he ever beat madara
probably before he became hokage and the 1 hokage won . he mention this to show how old he was and he had survive all this time with his heart's
kakazu did not said that he beat the 1 hokage . he said that he fought with him
probably before he became hokage and the 1 hokage won . he mention this to show how old he was and he had survive all this time with his heart's
Re: the first hokage how could he ever beat madara
Hashirama could control all the tailed beast like they were his pets. Madara couldn't. Hashirama might have sustained some injuries as well - not specified at all in the manga but, he didn't live much longer. Still he had reduced Madara's power to the point that Madara didn't try take over Konoha all by himself since then and remained in exile creating problems else where.
Madara must have put up a good enough fight but, got hurt and lost considerable power. That's why Itachi was able to post a threat to him- Probably not enough to really defeat Madara but, enough to contain him. Madara didn't attack Konoha till Itachi was alive after all.
As for First's fight with third- they were puppet dead-bodies. They could use the techniques of the first and second hokage but chakra had a limit as Oro was the one controlling and providing chakra to the bodies. Secondly, they recognised The Third hokage and said sorry for the trouble they had caused him. They were not fighting the Third with that will of fire... just doing what ordered.
As fmcande said- Kakazu said he fought the first Hokage- he never claimed that he beat him. There is a difference.Hashirama definitely beat madara otherwise madara wouldn't have left the village. He probably escaped Hashirama with that time-space Jutsu of his in the end.
Hashirama could control all the tailed beast like they were his pets. Madara couldn't. Hashirama might have sustained some injuries as well - not specified at all in the manga but, he didn't live much longer. Still he had reduced Madara's power to the point that Madara didn't try take over Konoha all by himself since then and remained in exile creating problems else where.
Madara must have put up a good enough fight but, got hurt and lost considerable power. That's why Itachi was able to post a threat to him- Probably not enough to really defeat Madara but, enough to contain him. Madara didn't attack Konoha till Itachi was alive after all.
As for First's fight with third- they were puppet dead-bodies. They could use the techniques of the first and second hokage but chakra had a limit as Oro was the one controlling and providing chakra to the bodies. Secondly, they recognised The Third hokage and said sorry for the trouble they had caused him. They were not fighting the Third with that will of fire... just doing what ordered.
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Blizzard589
Active member
Re: the first hokage how could he ever beat madara
I thought Oro just summoned the First and Second Hokages and once something is summoned it fights on its own chakra. They weren't in their bodies and they had their feelings and consciousness suppressed with those tags but they had all their power at their disposal. They recognized the Third before the tags were applied so the souls were actually resurrected like the technique name suggests (Edo Tensei=Impure World Resurrection).
Re: the first hokage how could he ever beat madara
I'm still stcking to other half of my assumption that they were acting on orders like a puppet but with no real fighting spirit of their own, otherwise the third Hokage must be the most powerful of them till date as he was able to push back the Fourth during the same fight.
Also, Hashirama had distributed all the tailed beast to other villages as well... did this made him weaker while fighting with the third? For we do not know exactly when did the tailed beast were passed on, Or do we?
Maybe... Still does a dead body resurrected is at 100 % of it's own chakra as it had when it was living? I sort of assumed that the bodies acted like puppets with Oro's chakra.
I'm still stcking to other half of my assumption that they were acting on orders like a puppet but with no real fighting spirit of their own, otherwise the third Hokage must be the most powerful of them till date as he was able to push back the Fourth during the same fight.
Also, Hashirama had distributed all the tailed beast to other villages as well... did this made him weaker while fighting with the third? For we do not know exactly when did the tailed beast were passed on, Or do we?
Blizzard589
Active member
Re: the first hokage how could he ever beat madara
I don't know but from the action Hashirama got against Sarutobi I'm gonna have to assume that Hashirama had several tailed beasts in his possession when he exchanged blows with Madara. I don't see any other way for him to fight and defeat the EMS. Even if Hashirama had limited chakra when he was resurrected against Sarutobi, he didn't show us anything amazing that would've stopped any Tsukuyomi/Amaterasu/Susanoo/interdimensional travel besides fighting with bijuu like Ash Ketchum and his pokemon.
I don't know but from the action Hashirama got against Sarutobi I'm gonna have to assume that Hashirama had several tailed beasts in his possession when he exchanged blows with Madara. I don't see any other way for him to fight and defeat the EMS. Even if Hashirama had limited chakra when he was resurrected against Sarutobi, he didn't show us anything amazing that would've stopped any Tsukuyomi/Amaterasu/Susanoo/interdimensional travel besides fighting with bijuu like Ash Ketchum and his pokemon.
Re: the first hokage how could he ever beat madara
Well first of all dont understimate the Hokage xD.We dont know all the techniques that the first hokage had aswell.
Also to note. Different people are good at different things. Something a lot of people dont taake into consideration.
So for example person 1 can beat person 2 but cant beat person 3. Person 2 on the other hand can beat person 3 even though he can be beat by person 1
Sorry if i was confusing was hard for me to complain.
Well first of all dont understimate the Hokage xD.We dont know all the techniques that the first hokage had aswell.
Also to note. Different people are good at different things. Something a lot of people dont taake into consideration.
So for example person 1 can beat person 2 but cant beat person 3. Person 2 on the other hand can beat person 3 even though he can be beat by person 1
Sorry if i was confusing was hard for me to complain.
Re: the first hokage how could he ever beat madara
The only exception i see is Naruto he always finds a way to evercome these differencdes and win. The only fight he lost was against Sasuke, which shows he can fight alot of people with skills different than his and still win, in this way i feel his strategist skils are comparable to Shikamaru, even though downplayed by his car-free personality.
you said it perfectly, I feel alot of characters are underestimated for this reason.
The only exception i see is Naruto he always finds a way to evercome these differencdes and win. The only fight he lost was against Sasuke, which shows he can fight alot of people with skills different than his and still win, in this way i feel his strategist skils are comparable to Shikamaru, even though downplayed by his car-free personality.
Kuyigetsu Houzuki
Member
Re: the first hokage how could he ever beat madara
i think using the the tailbeast really helped him out plus those expolding trees. if he reall did that
i think using the the tailbeast really helped him out plus those expolding trees. if he reall did that
Ironreaver7
Member
Re: the first hokage how could he ever beat madara
Since they were both descendants of Rikudou Sennin and probably the strongest direct descendants of the sons of the Rikudou Sennin, Hashirama might have had something to counter EMS that no other Shinobi my have had. MAdara would never go into detail about what the 1st used against him because he doesnt want anyone to know his weakness.
Wood Jutsu seems like the most versatile Element of all the elemental jutsu's and since his was the purest form, or most natural it was probably stronger that what Yamato can use with his clone DNA.
I really would like to see a story about the First Hokage and Madara...a TV special or movie like DBZ did with Bardock.
Since they were both descendants of Rikudou Sennin and probably the strongest direct descendants of the sons of the Rikudou Sennin, Hashirama might have had something to counter EMS that no other Shinobi my have had. MAdara would never go into detail about what the 1st used against him because he doesnt want anyone to know his weakness.
Wood Jutsu seems like the most versatile Element of all the elemental jutsu's and since his was the purest form, or most natural it was probably stronger that what Yamato can use with his clone DNA.
I really would like to see a story about the First Hokage and Madara...a TV special or movie like DBZ did with Bardock.
Ironreaver7
Member
Re: the first hokage how could he ever beat madara
yea but i dont think the Will of Fire is a Jutsu though
Re: the first hokage how could he ever beat madara
It seems odd for Madara too even consider using the 9 tails if Harashima is famous for controlling the tailed beast but the only panel of the fight shows that he did. Maybe he was arrogant enough to think that the Sharigan's ability in doing so, was greater then Harashima, that it failed extremely bad for him. I think the Bringer-of-Darkness genjutsu that the Shodai has, would been effective to get pass the Sharingan prediction ability. But we're never really get much more out that unless Madara spills more info and accept that Harashima's Wood Release in his true form was just too overwhelming.
It seems odd for Madara too even consider using the 9 tails if Harashima is famous for controlling the tailed beast but the only panel of the fight shows that he did. Maybe he was arrogant enough to think that the Sharigan's ability in doing so, was greater then Harashima, that it failed extremely bad for him. I think the Bringer-of-Darkness genjutsu that the Shodai has, would been effective to get pass the Sharingan prediction ability. But we're never really get much more out that unless Madara spills more info and accept that Harashima's Wood Release in his true form was just too overwhelming.
Re: the first hokage how could he ever beat madara
Hashirama was no ordinary shinobi. Tsukuyomi ccould be fought off by a shinobi who could fight Genjutsu. Killerbee was unaffected by it Hashirama had all the bijjus at his disposal and hence never alone.
Yamato was able to fight of Ametsrasu- Madara had used black flames to stop Naruto and team from persuing Sasuke when He was fighting with Itachi. Yamato made a way for everyone and told them to move on while he would take care of it. Sine Yamato's power were result of experiment with Hashirama's DNA it would be fair to assume that Hashirama could fight Ametsrasu as well. Even, Jiraiya had put it off with the help of a scroll.
Only Susano remains. We do not know how much Madara could control it- for all we know it might have been Itachi's technique which Madara couldn't counter and had to compromise with Itachi. Did he have yata mirro? Very possibly Hashirama was able to counter Susano even if Madara could control it, for Madara accepted that he was defeated. We can only speculate.
Lastly, The first could control all the bijjus. We have no reason to assume that Kyuubi was an exception. So Madara could not use Kyuubi against Hashirama effectively. It was never mentioned what happenned if Madara actully tried to use it the fight at the valley of end. He still lost.
As for the Third- he was taught by The first and second Hokages and a mighty one himself. He must have known basic techniques used by both of them and could fight them for a while. But, he knew his peril well. He said he would have to finish it off quickly and he used the ultimate technique of Death God seal to contain the souls of late Hokages- just like Minato did with Kyuubi. It's not like he blew them a kiss and they dropped dead on the floor.
Currently all the dead Hokage's so far must be having a picnic in the stomach of Shinigami, having a tete a tete with Kyuubi in between.
I disagree.
Hashirama was no ordinary shinobi. Tsukuyomi ccould be fought off by a shinobi who could fight Genjutsu. Killerbee was unaffected by it Hashirama had all the bijjus at his disposal and hence never alone.
Yamato was able to fight of Ametsrasu- Madara had used black flames to stop Naruto and team from persuing Sasuke when He was fighting with Itachi. Yamato made a way for everyone and told them to move on while he would take care of it. Sine Yamato's power were result of experiment with Hashirama's DNA it would be fair to assume that Hashirama could fight Ametsrasu as well. Even, Jiraiya had put it off with the help of a scroll.
Only Susano remains. We do not know how much Madara could control it- for all we know it might have been Itachi's technique which Madara couldn't counter and had to compromise with Itachi. Did he have yata mirro? Very possibly Hashirama was able to counter Susano even if Madara could control it, for Madara accepted that he was defeated. We can only speculate.
Lastly, The first could control all the bijjus. We have no reason to assume that Kyuubi was an exception. So Madara could not use Kyuubi against Hashirama effectively. It was never mentioned what happenned if Madara actully tried to use it the fight at the valley of end. He still lost.
As for the Third- he was taught by The first and second Hokages and a mighty one himself. He must have known basic techniques used by both of them and could fight them for a while. But, he knew his peril well. He said he would have to finish it off quickly and he used the ultimate technique of Death God seal to contain the souls of late Hokages- just like Minato did with Kyuubi. It's not like he blew them a kiss and they dropped dead on the floor.
Currently all the dead Hokage's so far must be having a picnic in the stomach of Shinigami, having a tete a tete with Kyuubi in between.
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~dark-senju~
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Re: the first hokage how could he ever beat madara
i think the 1st is stronger than madara
madara was used the TB (that is so unfair)
i think the 1st is stronger than madara
madara was used the TB (that is so unfair)