Hashirama best base taijutsu fighter in the series? (Excluding 8 gate gai)

[Animegoin]

The scan I provided corms Edo Madara was never near his full power not even close. As Hashi said he's regaining his past strength not he was stronger (edo), weaker nowand that he's getting stronger. Edo Madara wasn't using Mokuton or Rinne powwrs against him.



I don't see a Sharingan and SM isn't always visible take Edo Hashi he was still in SM yet there were no visible marks on his face.




Pushing out a sword using wood doesn't equal healing from injury, I repeat again only white zetsu are shown to actually heal. Also the reference was to healing and once Tsunade proved him wrong he said your like Hashirama. If it was Mokuton based fanfic healing as you put it then the reference would never have been made. Madara also distinguished between the two when he dissed Tsunade.




Hashi confirmed Edo Madara wasn't at full strength not even close actually if we go by his words of living Madara regaining his former strength. Also Hashi was revived near full power as Tobirama confirmed when they were revived. You have an Edo Madara who's nowhere near his EMS strength vs an Edo SM Hashi who's near his full strength. All Madara is shown using is PS and rods. The point is SM which amps you manyfold was necessary against a Madara who's weaker than EMS Madara and you think it wasn't used against EMS Madara.



1st. Hashi knows Madara's abilities and his own and non SM Madara wrecked the gates that were holding him down while he was even weaker.

2nd. SM Hashi who should be tiers above Madara without SM according to yoy was still restrained by a blind Madara with no SM.

3rd. Hashi knows his own powers and he knows Madara's he made it clear Madara was regaining his past EMS level strength and that wouldn't include his own or SM strength. He also made reference to that once he saw the Hashiboob so he was fully aware of it and yet referred to Madara regaining his(Madara's) past strength.

Your excuse doesn't wash, SM automatically amps you many times over it still wasn't enough to deal with an equally weaker Madara. I've said what I needed to say also Tauren's scan confirmed Hashi was in SM yet had no visible markings on his face and we know this because Madara absorbed the SM later on. In other words SM can be used without markings in Hashi's case so that point is also out of the window.

Nicely done

 

[salamander uchiha]

Nicely done

Thanks mate let's hope it gets through to them.

 

[Oblivionx]

Hashirama is featless when it comes to taijutsu. By logic madara is superior in taijutsu. Hashirama relied on wood style to counter madara. One scan doesn't prove as naruto also blocked one or two attacks in taijutsu from sasuke. Same with sasuke vs bee. Hashirama was equal to madara as a kid. With EMS that would be stupid if you make them equal in taijutsu, that too without feats.

 

[Mellanoma]

The scan I provided corms Edo Madara was never near his full power not even close. As Hashi said he's regaining his past strength not he was stronger (edo), weaker nowand that he's getting stronger. Edo Madara wasn't using Mokuton or Rinne powwrs against him.

How would Hashirama know how strong Madara was with his cells and rinnegan? Kabuto clearly stated he created Madara pass his prime so how would Hashirama know Madara was gaining his "past strength". Also hashirama cells canonically makes it's host stronger physically and stamina wise so there should be a difference in Madara vs Normal madara aside from the Rinnegan.

Logically what you're saying would make sense if Hashirama never defeated Madara however he did defeat madara when he was at his EMS + Kurama prime. This was the last time Hashirama saw Madara (As far as the manga illustrates) so i find it confusing.

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^^ Madara's Clear overconfidence BEFORE SM and Hashirama's surprise to Kurama + PS merged tells us this is the first encounter they have had at this level. If you disagree please feel free to explain.

I don't see a Sharingan and SM isn't always visible take Edo Hashi he was still in SM yet there were no visible marks on his face.

I can't argue this as manga inconsistencies are quite common. However this opens up a can of worms i will definitely not jump into XD

Pushing out a sword using wood doesn't equal healing from injury, I repeat again only white zetsu are shown to actually heal. Also the reference was to healing and once Tsunade proved him wrong he said your like Hashirama. If it was Mokuton based fanfic healing as you put it then the reference would never have been made. Madara also distinguished between the two when he dissed Tsunade.

It's not fanfic healing. There are quite a few KKGs in the series that grant a form of healing through modification:
Kimmimaro and Jugo are perfect examples of this.

However, for the case of your argument Hashirama's cells canonically grants healing properties:

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So if his cells allow regeneration + Power amplification then why wouldn't he get the benefits of his own cells? Just like Madara got those benefits

Hashi confirmed Edo Madara wasn't at full strength not even close actually if we go by his words of living Madara regaining his former strength. Also Hashi was revived near full power as Tobirama confirmed when they were revived. You have an Edo Madara who's nowhere near his EMS strength vs an Edo SM Hashi who's near his full strength. All Madara is shown using is PS and rods. The point is SM which amps you manyfold was necessary against a Madara who's weaker than EMS Madara and you think it wasn't used against EMS Madara.

This is incorrect as Madara and Kabuto both discussed Edo Madara was pass his prime strength.

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Remember Madara died like this:

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Once again I ask you. How would Hashirama know Hashiroid Rinnegan Madara was not at full strength if he never faced hashiroid rinnegan madara?

You're making it seem like Hashirama always used SM against Madara which I highly doubt. VOTE indicates that was HAshirama's first time using SS and Sage Mode as Madara used his ultimate ability which was PS + Kurama merged.

1st. Hashi knows Madara's abilities and his own and non SM Madara wrecked the gates that were holding him down while he was even weaker.

At that point of the fight Hashirama (Although not logical) was exhausted

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As for your weaker statement this is not true as Madara has his prowess + Hashirama's cells boosting him + Rinnegan so im willing to believe SM Hashirama gave his all to capture Madara in a weakened state. If it wasn't for Obito's actions Madara would have been captured.

2nd. SM Hashi who should be tiers above Madara without SM according to yoy was still restrained by a blind Madara with no SM.

As I stated in the statement above. Hashirama was clearly drained and exhausted (Not logical) but he is panting as an EDO lol

Never said "tiers" above however EDO Hashiroid Rinne Madara was indeed captured by SM hashirama to the point Hashirama was exhausted. Madara was boosted beyond his prime while Hashirama was revived in a weaker state. Otherwise Hashirama would have had to fight....

Old Madara

3rd. Hashi knows his own powers and he knows Madara's he made it clear Madara was regaining his past EMS level strength and that wouldn't include his own or SM strength. He also made reference to that once he saw the Hashiboob so he was fully aware of it and yet referred to Madara regaining his(Madara's) past strength.

This is something I can partly agree on.
Hashirama knowing MAdara's EMS level strength + Seeing Hashboob (lol) would be a clear indication that Madara is:
Using Hashirama's power and is slowly gaining his own power back which would logically warrant him to make the statement.

Your excuse doesn't wash, SM automatically amps you many times over it still wasn't enough to deal with an equally weaker Madara. I've said what I needed to say also Tauren's scan confirmed Hashi was in SM yet had no visible markings on his face and we know this because Madara absorbed the SM later on. In other words SM can be used without markings in Hashi's case so that point is also out of the window.

Madara was not equally weaker?

HE has Hashiroids/Rinnegan and was revived pass his prime

Hashirama was revived in a weaker state.

Manga CLEARLY indicates this.

You insulted me with the "Don't read the manga" comment however people tend to forget all the properties that come with Hashirama's cells not just Rinnegan unlock"

Hashirama is featless when it comes to taijutsu. By logic madara is superior in taijutsu. Hashirama relied on wood style to counter madara. One scan doesn't prove as naruto also blocked one or two attacks in taijutsu from sasuke. Same with sasuke vs bee. Hashirama was equal to madara as a kid. With EMS that would be stupid if you make them equal in taijutsu, that too without feats.

Logic also dictates that Sasuke should be a better CQC fighter than NAruto however Naruto contends and on occasion bested him.

 

[salamander uchiha]

How would Hashirama know how strong Madara was with his cells and rinnegan? Kabuto clearly stated he created Madara pass his prime so how would Hashirama know Madara was gaining his "past strength". Also hashirama cells canonically makes it's host stronger physically and stamina wise so there should be a difference in Madara vs Normal madara aside from the Rinnegan.

You act as if Hashirama who fought him and can sense doesn't know his own power/chakra or a boosted power. Hashirama also fought Madara with the Rinnegan and the so called boosted power as you call it Hashirama would know how strong he was. Kabuto never met Madara his statement is an assumtpion and Madara dismissed it in the manga. Hashi on the other hand had fought Madara countless times, knows Madara's and his own power, therefore his statement holds more weight. As for Hashi cells they grant you a faster recovery(stamina ability) it's nt once been stated they grant a power boost in fact they try to take over the host(Danzo vs Sasuke) so require suppression.

Logically what you're saying would make sense if Hashirama never defeated Madara however he did defeat madara when he was at his EMS + Kurama prime. This was the last time Hashirama saw Madara (As far as the manga illustrates) so i find it confusing.

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^^ Madara's Clear overconfidence BEFORE SM and Hashirama's surprise to Kurama + PS merged tells us this is the first encounter they have had at this level. If you disagree please feel free to explain.

There's a major logical flaw right here, Hashiram fought EMS Madara and knew his strength. Hashirama fought Rinnegan Madara and knew his strength. Hashirama would know which version was stronger as he fought all versions except JJ Madara.

As for the specualtion you've brought as being the first time Hashi is using SM that's fanfic right there since we know SM Hashi can use SM without facial matkings being present.

I can't argue this as manga inconsistencies are quite common. However this opens up a can of worms i will definitely not jump into XD

No it's manga fact Hashi can use SM without visible markings and Madara also confirmed Hashi can heal without seals. It's Hashi's SM power shether you like it or not doesn't change that fact.

It's not fanfic healing. There are quite a few KKGs in the series that grant a form of healing through modification:
Kimmimaro and Jugo are perfect examples of this.

Kimimaro and jugo aren't Mokuton users and it's still fanfic healing.

However, for the case of your argument Hashirama's cells canonically grants healing properties:

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Spoiler

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So if his cells allow regeneration + Power amplification then why wouldn't he get the benefits of his own cells? Just like Madara got those benefits

No they dont that's fanfic, Kabuto used much tinkered Hashi cells to heal Sasuke. In no way does that confirm they allow healing since Kabuto himself is a medic. And i repeat they dont grant a powerboost they allow faster recovery of chakra/stamina.

This is incorrect as Madara and Kabuto both discussed Edo Madara was pass his prime strength.

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Remember Madara died like this:

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Once again I ask you. How would Hashirama know Hashiroid Rinnegan Madara was not at full strength if he never faced hashiroid rinnegan madara?

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In the first scan Kabuto confirms he doesn't know about Madara's prime or it's strength.

In the second scan Kabuto tries to take credit and say he made Madara greater than his prime and Madara out right dismisses him.

It's clear Kabuto was reaching as are you.

As for your once again question Hashirama would know because he's already fought both EMS Madara and Rinnegan Madara.

You're making it seem like Hashirama always used SM against Madara which I highly doubt. VOTE indicates that was HAshirama's first time using SS and Sage Mode as Madara used his ultimate ability which was PS + Kurama merged.

No SS maybe Hashi had many years to train to develop it but SM Hashi could've and would've used many times for Madara to praise it's healing abilities. Also like I've said facial markings arent alwayd there when a person uses SM. And even for a moment we entertain it was the first time Hashi ised SM then know he continued using it against EMS Madara long after Kurama was removed from the battle as he still possessed the facial markings. Thant also confirms to fight against EMS Madara Hashi would still need SM.

At that point of the fight Hashirama (Although not logical) was exhausted

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As for your weaker statement this is not true as Madara has his prowess + Hashirama's cells boosting him + Rinnegan so im willing to believe SM Hashirama gave his all to capture Madara in a weakened state. If it wasn't for Obito's actions Madara would have been captured.

This has been addressed many times I dont need to repeat myself. And Edo have unlimited chakra, they dont get tired Hashi with SM was giving his all to capture a Madara who was weaker than EMS Madara.

As I stated in the statement above. Hashirama was clearly drained and exhausted (Not logical) but he is panting as an EDO lol

Of course he's panting Hashi eith unlimited chakra was giving it his all to restrain a Madara who's weaker than EMS Madara.

Never said "tiers" above however EDO Hashiroid Rinne Madara was indeed captured by SM hashirama to the point Hashirama was exhausted. Madara was boosted beyond his prime while Hashirama was revived in a weaker state. Otherwise Hashirama would have had to fight....

Old Madara



This is something I can partly agree on.
Hashirama knowing MAdara's EMS level strength + Seeing Hashboob (lol) would be a clear indication that Madara is:
Using Hashirama's power and is slowly gaining his own power back which would logically warrant him to make the statement.



Madara was not equally weaker?

HE has Hashiroids/Rinnegan and was revived pass his prime

Hashirama was revived in a weaker state.

Manga CLEARLY indicates this.

You insulted me with the "Don't read the manga" comment however people tend to forget all the properties that come with Hashirama's cells not just Rinnegan unlock"

This is fanfic Hashirama pretty much confirmed Madara was weaker by his statement that he's regaining his past strength upon revival. He didn't make any reference to the Hashiboob since he was referring soley to Madara's own strength. If he was getting sttonger than that then hashi would've said so or said with my power he's getting stronger. The rest are just excuses on your part to try and explain it away, Hashi knows best end off.

 

[Mellanoma]

You act as if Hashirama who fought him and can sense doesn't know his own power/chakra or a boosted power. Hashirama also fought Madara with the Rinnegan and the so called boosted power as you call it Hashirama would know how strong he was. Kabuto never met Madara his statement is an assumtpion and Madara dismissed it in the manga. Hashi on the other hand had fought Madara countless times, knows Madara's and his own power, therefore his statement holds more weight. As for Hashi cells they grant you a faster recovery(stamina ability) it's nt once been stated they grant a power boost in fact they try to take over the host(Danzo vs Sasuke) so require suppression.



There's a major logical flaw right here, Hashiram fought EMS Madara and knew his strength. Hashirama fought Rinnegan Madara and knew his strength. Hashirama would know which version was stronger as he fought all versions except JJ Madara.

As for the specualtion you've brought as being the first time Hashi is using SM that's fanfic right there since we know SM Hashi can use SM without facial matkings being present.





No it's manga fact Hashi can use SM without visible markings and Madara also confirmed Hashi can heal without seals. It's Hashi's SM power shether you like it or not doesn't change that fact.



Kimimaro and jugo aren't Mokuton users and it's still fanfic healing.



No they dont that's fanfic, Kabuto used much tinkered Hashi cells to heal Sasuke. In no way does that confirm they allow healing since Kabuto himself is a medic. And i repeat they dont grant a powerboost they allow faster recovery of chakra/stamina.

Spoiler

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In the first scan Kabuto confirms he doesn't know about Madara's prime or it's strength.

In the second scan Kabuto tries to take credit and say he made Madara greater than his prime and Madara out right dismisses him.

It's clear Kabuto was reaching as are you.

As for your once again question Hashirama would know because he's already fought both EMS Madara and Rinnegan Madara.



No SS maybe Hashi had many years to train to develop it but SM Hashi could've and would've used many times for Madara to praise it's healing abilities. Also like I've said facial markings arent alwayd there when a person uses SM. And even for a moment we entertain it was the first time Hashi ised SM then know he continued using it against EMS Madara long after Kurama was removed from the battle as he still possessed the facial markings. Thant also confirms to fight against EMS Madara Hashi would still need SM.




This has been addressed many times I dont need to repeat myself. And Edo have unlimited chakra, they dont get tired Hashi with SM was giving his all to capture a Madara who was weaker than EMS Madara.



Of course he's panting Hashi eith unlimited chakra was giving it his all to restrain a Madara who's weaker than EMS Madara.



This is fanfic Hashirama pretty much confirmed Madara was weaker by his statement that he's regaining his past strength upon revival. He didn't make any reference to the Hashiboob since he was referring soley to Madara's own strength. If he was getting sttonger than that then hashi would've said so or said with my power he's getting stronger. The rest are just excuses on your part to try and explain it away, Hashi knows best end off.

If Madara was not revived pass his prime then why was he not revived as an Old Man? CLEARLY this is Kabuto's doing.
Canonically EDO tensei are revived at the point they died but CLEARLY madara was not

2nd point: Hashirama cells healing

Madara survived a direct mortal wound thanks to Hashirama cells. Sasuke survived due to his cells,

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Zetsu are even amplified by HAshirama's cells

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3rd point:

Hashirama cells do boost your strength.

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Madara even stated he needs Hashirama's cells to boost the ability to control the Juubi (Will find scan)

So yes, Madara's overall strength was boosted by Hashirama. People forget Hashiroids boost everything. Not just Rinne unlock

 

[salamander uchiha]

If Madara was not revived pass his prime then why was he not revived as an Old Man? CLEARLY this is Kabuto's doing.
Canonically EDO tensei are revived at the point they died but CLEARLY madara was not

Madara was revived in his houth which was his prime, old age isn't your prime. Anyway Kabuto admitted he knew nothing of Madara's prime and Madara confirmed Kabuto didn't give him power beyond his prime. And if we go by Hashi's confirmation Madara was not even at his EMS strength.

2nd point: Hashirama cells healing

Madara survived a direct mortal wound thanks to Hashirama cells. Sasuke survived due to his cells,

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You're either not reading the manga or you're being intellectually dishonest. Madara survived because of Izanagi, left a shadow clone, went to his lair and was still alive. He then implabted hashi cells into the wounds to awaken the Rinnegan not to survive his injuries otherwise he would've done it there and then.

Zetsu are even amplified by HAshirama's cells

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Zetsu are buffed by yang energy, Kurama's energy turned them into trees so yeah they would be boosted.

3rd point:

Hashirama cells do boost your strength.

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That wasn't what was meant, it meant Hashi's yang energy allowed Danzo to handle the Sharingan.

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Here's tge scan that precedes yours also nobody denied the Hashiroids granted faster recovery speed (chakra/stamina).

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Madara even stated he needs Hashirama's cells to boost the ability to control the Juubi (Will find scan)

So yes, Madara's overall strength was boosted by Hashirama. People forget Hashiroids boost everything. Not just Rinne unlock

Orochimaru's body is white Zetsu he's not using any Hashi cells in the litteral sense. Hashi's just assuming at this point since he doesn't know Orochimaru's full power. But anyway this confirms Hashirama can sense his own power and moreso in SM. Even with this not once did he make reference to Madara being boosted by his cells, his chakra or his power as an Edo or when he was alive. He pretty much confirmed Edo Madara was weaker than him EMS Madara and that blind Madara was regaining his past EMS strength.

I repeat Hashi could sense cells and powers and was strictly reffering to Madara's power. Even he didn't sense the Hashiroid, or his chakra or powerboost or whatever you want to call it because it wasn't there in fact he was shocked at the sight of the Hashiboob.

I'm done with this dance as your just repeating the same things.

 

[Mellanoma]

Madara was revived in his houth which was his prime, old age isn't your prime. Anyway Kabuto admitted he knew nothing of Madara's prime and Madara confirmed Kabuto didn't give him power beyond his prime. And if we go by Hashi's confirmation Madara was not even at his EMS strength.



You're either not reading the manga or you're being intellectually dishonest. Madara survived because of Izanagi, left a shadow clone, went to his lair and was still alive. He then implabted hashi cells into the wounds to awaken the Rinnegan not to survive his injuries otherwise he would've done it there and then.



Zetsu are buffed by yang energy, Kurama's energy turned them into trees so yeah they would be boosted.




That wasn't what was meant, it meant Hashi's yang energy allowed Danzo to handle the Sharingan.

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Here's tge scan that precedes yours also nobody denied the Hashiroids granted faster recovery speed (chakra/stamina).


Orochimaru's body is white Zetsu he's not using any Hashi cells in the litteral sense. Hashi's just assuming at this point since he doesn't know Orochimaru's full power. But anyway this confirms Hashirama can sense his own power and moreso in SM. Even with this not once did he make reference to Madara being boosted by his cells, his chakra or his power as an Edo or when he was alive. He pretty much confirmed Edo Madara was weaker than him EMS Madara and that blind Madara was regaining his past EMS strength.

I repeat Hashi could sense cells and powers and was strictly reffering to Madara's power. Even he didn't sense the Hashiroid, or his chakra or powerboost or whatever you want to call it because it wasn't there in fact he was shocked at the sight of the Hashiboob.

I'm done with this dance as your just repeating the same things.

I've given you a huge amount of manga scans while you present only your opinion on said scans so lets just agree to disagree.
Our understanding of what Hashirama cells do and don't do are different so this will go no where.

From your perspective Hashirama cells don't make you stronger or heal where as I believe they do so gg.

Can you answer this one question though. Why was Madara not revived as an old man?

 

[salamander uchiha]

I've given you a huge amount of manga scans while you present only your opinion on said scans so lets just agree to disagree.
Our understanding of what Hashirama cells do and don't do are different so this will go no where.

From your perspective Hashirama cells don't make you stronger or heal where as I believe they do so gg.

Can you answer this one question though. Why was Madara not revived as an old man?

Ive presented evidences dismissing your assertions or I've explained away the holes in them. And I for one beleive they grant faster recovery speed, enhance yang release techs just not healing ability which is fanfic.

As for Madara being revived younger I guess a younger body is more functional and closer to prime than an older body. However as Hashirama confirmed he wasn't near his prime, a Madara who came back to life took out the 10 gates like nothing and Hashi confirmed he's still not at EMS level.

 

[Mellanoma]

Ive presented evidences dismissing your assertions or I've explained away the holes in them. And I for one beleive they grant faster recovery speed, enhance yang release techs just not healing ability which is fanfic.

As for Madara being revived younger I guess a younger body is more functional and closer to prime than an older body. However as Hashirama confirmed he wasn't near his prime, a Madara who came back to life took out the 10 gates like nothing and Hashi confirmed he's still not at EMS level.

The Mechanics behind edo state you are revived at the state at which you died. Kabuto stated his edo was special so explain why he came back as a young adult rather than Old man Madara IF Kabuto had nothing to do with it.

Also are you saying Non EMS level Madara defeated SM Hashirama?

 

[salamander uchiha]

The Mechanics behind edo state you are revived at the state at which you died. Kabuto stated his edo was special so explain why he came back as a young adult rather than Old man Madara IF Kabuto had nothing to do with it.

You misunderstand I'm saying Kabuto made Madara younger didn't give Madara any abilities or push him past his prime. He didn't even revive him at prime EMS power in ability. Hashi's words pretty much confirm this and Madara also dismissing Kabuto's claim of such. Those were in the scans I provided.

Also are you saying Non EMS level Madara defeated SM Hashirama?

Yes as is confirmed by Hashi's own words which also adds weight to Hashi using SM against EMS Madara. We've been over this so i don't want to repeat the cycle it's all in the previous posts.

 

[Mellanoma]

You misunderstand I'm saying Kabuto made Madara younger didn't give Madara any abilities or push him past his prime. He didn't even revive him at prime EMS power in ability. Hashi's words pretty much confirm this and Madara also dismissing Kabuto's claim of such. Those were in the scans I provided.

Kabuto stated BEYOND his prime which mean't he is EMS Madara (Prime state) WITH his Rinne Madara capabilities (Beyond)

Yes as is confirmed by Hashi's own words which also adds weight to Hashi using SM against EMS Madara. We've been over this so i don't want to repeat the cycle it's all in the previous posts.

So instead of accepting the misintepretation you are going to sit here and say Hashirama stated EMS Madara was stronger than him? i give up. If you truly feel this way make a thread about it because what you are saying now is completely ignorant to what the manga states and features

 

[salamander uchiha]

Kabuto stated BEYOND his prime which mean't he is EMS Madara (Prime state) WITH his Rinne Madara capabilities (Beyond)

Yet Kabuto also claims he doesn't know EMS Madara's prime and when Kabuto says he made Madara beyond his prime Madara dissmissed him saying he didnt create this power. Also when Madara was revived Hashi stated hes gaining his past power meaning Edo Rinnegan Madara wasn't as strong as EMS Madara. I don't underatand how you cant conprehend that Kabuto isn't the authority on Madara, Madara and Hashirama are.

So instead of accepting the misintepretation you are going to sit here and say Hashirama stated EMS Madara was stronger than him? i give up. If you truly feel this way make a thread about it because what you are saying now is completely ignorant to what the manga states and features

Hashirama's own statement pretty much tells us that EMS Madara's powers exceed Edo Rinnegan Madara's. It took SM and all Hashi's effort to restrain the lesser version of Madara. A Madara who's not even at EMS strength restrains Edo SM Hashi. Hashi's only edge over Madara are his vast chakra reserves he could outlast EMS Madara and heal from the injuries he received via his SM. If Madara possessed the same reserves then he would've low diffed Hashi that was the only issue. Whether you like it or not doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

I'm done on this topic as I'll just be repeating myself.

 

[Mellanoma]

Hashirama's own statement pretty much tells us that EMS Madara's powers exceed Edo Rinnegan Madara's

lol just nooo man. Make a thread about this please. Im curious to know what others think

 

[salamander uchiha]

lol just nooo man. Make a thread about this please. Im curious to know what others think

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I told you I'm done on this just take Hashi's word for it he fight both(EMS alive + Rinnegan madara) he could restrain one (Edo Madara lesser) got restrained by living no eyed Madara and confirmed Madara was gaining his former power (EMS powers). In other words Madara was still not at his EMS strength.

You're entitled to believe what you want bit these are the facts of it. Think about it the only time Madara actually got serious against the Kage was when he whipled out PS while he was still not at EMS level in power. Anyway I'm definitely done anything else is just a repeat.