[VS] Hashirama and Prime Hiruzen vs. Tobirama and Minato

[makosheva7]

Who would win in a fight?

Note:
Minato CAN use Bijuu Mode
Tobirama CAN use Edo Tensei (although he still can't do it as proficiently as Oro)

I think team 1 would be able to take this high diff, Hashi is THE strongest in SM and able to dish out a beast like True Several Thousand Hands that would cancel out any speed blitzes Tobirama and Minato attempt, plus with Prime Hiruzen's help

(Side note: I really wish we had more feats of Prime Hiruzen)

 

[Beans2]

Oh gawd Team 1 roflstomps.

 

[makosheva7]

Oh gawd Team 1 roflstomps.

I agree I'd just like to see what arguments people can make for a team 2 victory

 

[Ababeel]

So, you basically put Hiruzen who's supposedly the strongest Hokage with Hashirama who's also stronger than his brother.
but that was not enough, so you also limited both Minato and Tobirama's power?

Interesting. U_U

 

[makosheva7]

So, you basically put Hiruzen who's supposedly the strongest Hokage with Hashirama who's also stronger than his brother.
but that was not enough, so you also limited both Minato and Tobirama's power?

Interesting. U_U

hmm, maybe the restrictions were overkill I'll edit it, thanks

 

[ARGUS]

Team 1 wins this

Hashiramas SS has a far too large AOE for Minato to effectively evade and due to its Mokuton based techniques,, one touch from it would result in minatos kyuubi being put to sleep,,,,
Hashirama in SM would also have the reflexes to react to even FTG,, so ''lolFTGblitz'' is definitely not happening,,,
Chojo Kobetsu (CK) from Hashirama managed to tank 11 PS infused TBB and still managed to destroy PS,,

Minatos half kyuubi lacks the fire power that Full Kurama and PS have,, furthermore Tobirama can also not back Minato up efficiently to give him the firepower of FULL PS Kyuubi,,, which is why he is not affecting hashiramas victory too much,,,,
moreover Hashiramas mokuton based techniques are terrible for bijuus since they have the power to suppress the bijuu,,,
Theres also the fact that unlike Naruto,, Minatos link against kurama isnt perfect as he has only used BM once,,,
the 5-8minute limit also costs him, here
Hiruzen is honestly a non factor here,, he is getting marked by any FTG user and they can finish him off comfortably..

 

[PlasticAngelx]

Team 1 wrecks.

 

[makosheva7]

Team 1 wins this

Hashiramas SS has a far too large AOE for Minato to effectively evade and due to its Mokuton based techniques,, one touch from it would result in minatos kyuubi being put to sleep,,,,
Hashirama in SM would also have the reflexes to react to even FTG,, so ''lolFTGblitz'' is definitely not happening,,,
Chojo Kobetsu (CK) from Hashirama managed to tank 11 PS infused TBB and still managed to destroy PS,,

Minatos half kyuubi lacks the fire power that Full Kurama and PS have,, furthermore Tobirama can also not back Minato up efficiently to give him the firepower of FULL PS Kyuubi,,, which is why he is not affecting hashiramas victory too much,,,,
moreover Hashiramas mokuton based techniques are terrible for bijuus since they have the power to suppress the bijuu,,,
Theres also the fact that unlike Naruto,, Minatos link against kurama isnt perfect as he has only used BM once,,,
the 5-8minute limit also costs him, here
Hiruzen is honestly a non factor here,, he is getting marked by any FTG user and they can finish him off comfortably..

hmm sounds like any team with Hashirama wins haha

 

[ARGUS]

hmm sounds like any team with Hashirama wins haha

yes,,, he is undoubtedly the strongest kage in the NV,,
through portrayal and feats,,,

 

[Ababeel]

[=Kifflom;14829073]Team 1 wins this

Hashiramas SS has a far too large AOE for Minato to effectively evade and due to its Mokuton based techniques,, one touch from it would result in minatos kyuubi being put to sleep,,,,

S/T barrier against the Buddha will b enough, unless you think its AOE is greater than the Juubi's TBB.

Hashirama in SM would also have the reflexes to react to even FTG,, so ''lolFTGblitz'' is definitely not happening,,,

Proof?

Chojo Kobetsu (CK) from Hashirama managed to tank 11 PS infused TBB and still managed to destroy PS,,

It does not matter, it wil get teleported.

Minatos half kyuubi lacks the fire power that Full Kurama and PS have,, furthermore Tobirama can also not back Minato up efficiently to give him the firepower of FULL PS Kyuubi,,, which is why he is not affecting hashiramas victory too much,,,

you still ignore the teleportation jutsus. Both Minato and Tobirama were not planning to deal with Obito's 4 TBB with raw power, you know?
,

moreover Hashiramas mokuton based techniques are terrible for bijuus since they have the power to suppress the bijuu,,,

Yet Kurama's TBB destroyed the wooden Dragon and Human, the same happened to the 5 gates he summoned.

Theres also the fact that unlike Naruto,, Minatos link against kurama isnt perfect as he has only used BM once,,,

proof?

the 5-8minute limit also costs him, here

proof?

 

[Nattana]

Team 1 shitstomps.

 

[Zee U]

What a unholy stomp. Tobirama is useless and Minato should defeat Hiruzen and Hashirama?

That's too much even for Failnato.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

One may argue S/T barrier can take Shinsusenju on, since it warped the Juubi's TBB, which is vastly bigger than the Juubi.

I'd say Team 1 takes this.

 

[MickNerks]

1. Prime hiruzen Easily takes down Tobirama!! (Hiruzen in databook has 5 in everything except Stamina, Strength, and Speed which all got 3. If he is in his prime his stamina would most definitely rise to 4 or 5. And since he has nature advantage over tobirama and enma it shouldn't be to diff for hiruzen)

2. W/ shadow clones hiruzen can comfortably take down Minato. Minato FTG's hiruzen and it ends up being a log with a explosive tag on the opposite side. GG Minato or Minato goes in to FTG Hiruzen and when he hits hiruzen with kunai or rasengan hiruzen secretly laces him with explosive tags. The attacked hiruzen ends up being a clone or log and minato gets arms and legs blown off.

Spoiler

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Hashirama may not be needed. But with Hashirama this is definitely a stomp.

 

[Gold Lightning]

1. Prime hiruzen Easily takes down Tobirama!!

2. W/ shadow clones hiruzen can comfortably take down Minato. Minato FTG's hiruzen and it ends up being a log with a explosive tag on the opposite side. GG Minato or Minato goes in to FTG Hiruzen and when he hits hiruzen with kunai or rasengan hiruzen secretly laces him with explosive tags. The attacked hiruzen ends up being a clone or log and minato gets arms and legs blown off.


Hashirama may not be needed. But with Hashirama this is definitely a stomp.

Only reason Hiruzen wasn't killed by Tobirama when they fought in part 1 was because he didn't use FTG. Hiruzen isn't easily taking down anybody, prime hiruzen doesn't even have a feat to his name.

And why are you acting like Minato doesn't also use shadow clones? Minato used to take down platoons in the blink of an eye just by scattering his kunai, clones aren't going to cut it as they'll be handled easily, especially against an opponent who also uses clones.

Hashirama not needed Lol, how does Hiruzen handle multiple boss toads plus 2 Space time jutsu users. If shadow clones is the best argument you have when both Tobirama and Minato are space time users and shadow clone users, then sorry but your arguments seriously fail.

By the way, Minato has already shown to avoid explosives:

Spoiler

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It's not gonna work on someone that fast or an FTG user.

 

[Anna]

I would go with Team 1 on this one.

 

[MickNerks]

Only reason Hiruzen wasn't killed by Tobirama when they fought in part 1 was because he didn't use FTG. Hiruzen isn't easily taking down anybody, prime hiruzen doesn't even have a feat to his name.

And why are you acting like Minato doesn't also use shadow clones? Minato used to take down platoons in the blink of an eye just by scattering his kunai, clones aren't going to cut it as they'll be handled easily, especially against an opponent who also uses clones.

Hashirama not needed Lol, how does Hiruzen handle multiple boss toads plus 2 Space time jutsu users. If shadow clones is the best argument you have when both Tobirama and Minato are space time users and shadow clone users, then sorry but your arguments seriously fail.

Prime hiruzen is hiruzen, so the feats that hiruzen has also go with young hiruzen. The only thing that changes between prime and older hiruzen is the increase in strength, stamina, and speed. They have 3's in databook, so its fair to say the in prime they were 4's or 5's which would give hiruzen the perfect databook score. The reason I gave hiruzen a 5 in strength is because the comment he made when he stated enma was heavier than he remembered, which showed a obvious decrease in strength, and a similar comment was made regarding his stamina.

So a prime hiruzen is presumed to have 4 or 5 in strength and stamina, which would automatically would increase his speed (biomechanics and kinesiology). With a arsenal of all 5 elements with the use of 1 hand seal, the strongest summon in manga "Enma" (aacording to databook and/or official fanbook), Surikens, explosive tags, 5 level taijutsu and genjutsu, and a genius of the art of jutsu and a master battle tactician. Hiruzen is truly something to be feared.

When I talked about what would most likely happen, I was making the assumption that the ninja were in character. And a in character Minato doesn't start a battle of summoning gamabunta, gamahiro, or gamaiken.

To be fair I didn't take into account Tobirama's FTG. But I don't believe its a factor because when hiruzen has enma he has onmi-direction attacking or defending abilities. Even if Tobirama FTG'd somewhere next to hiruzen, enma would instantly strike where he appeared at and claw his eyes out.

Also, a in character Hiruzen is fully knowledgable of FTG, and would know better that to attack them wildly and unprotected. He would most likely use substitutes and clones to engage them. Explosive tags in this instance would be the cleanest option to finish them because hiruzen has feats of being able to tag people without there knowledge. Even Orochimaru who watch the fight from afar didn't notice. Which would be Tobirama and Minato's downfall (one option). Also the clear weakness of FTG's users is that they typically always fight close range when using FTG, which isn't safe for them against a taijutsu master like hiruzen who will use a clone to eat and puch and lace them with tags.

I should also add that I am in no way saying that Hiruzen could defeat them both simultaneously, I'm suggesting that if he battled each one separately that he could defeat each one.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Prime hiruzen is hiruzen, so the feats that hiruzen has also go with young hiruzen. The only thing that changes between prime and older hiruzen is the increase in strength, stamina, and speed. They have 3's in databook, so its fair to say the in prime they were 4's or 5's which would give hiruzen the perfect databook score. The reason I gave hiruzen a 5 in strength is because the comment he made when he stated enma was heavier than he remembered, which showed a obvious decrease in strength, and a similar comment was made regarding his stamina.

So a prime hiruzen is presumed to have 4 or 5 in strength and stamina, which would automatically would increase his speed (biomechanics and kinesiology). With a arsenal of all 5 elements with the use of 1 hand seal, the strongest summon in manga "Enma" (aacording to databook and/or official fanbook), Surikens, explosive tags, 5 level taijutsu and genjutsu, and a genius of the art of jutsu and a master battle tactician. Hiruzen is truly something to be feared.

When I talked about what would most likely happen, I was making the assumption that the ninja were in character. And a in character Minato doesn't start a battle of summoning gamabunta, gamahiro, or gamaiken.

To be fair I didn't take into account Tobirama's FTG. But I don't believe its a factor because when hiruzen has enma he has onmi-direction attacking or defending abilities. Even if Tobirama FTG'd somewhere next to hiruzen, enma would instantly strike where he appeared at and claw his eyes out.

Also, a in character Hiruzen is fully knowledgable of FTG, and would know better that to attack them wildly and unprotected. He would most likely use substitutes and clones to engage them. Explosive tags in this instance would be the cleanest option to finish them because hiruzen has feats of being able to tag people without there knowledge. Even Orochimaru who watch the fight from afar didn't notice. Which would be Tobirama and Minato's downfall (one option). Also the clear weakness of FTG's users is that they typically always fight close range when using FTG, which isn't safe for a taijutsu master like hiruzen who will use a clone to eat and puch and lace them with tags.

I should also add that I am in no way saying that Hiruzen could defeat them both simultaneously, I'm suggesting that if he battled each one separately that he could defeat each one.

You're making a lot of assumptions on what Hiruzen could be like, I just assume Prime Hiruzen is the same as Edo Hiruzen because that's the best comparison (with feats) that we are ever going to get since he doesn't feel Pain/fatigue and has unlimited chakra supply. And we all know old Hiruzen could never make 5 shadow clones and use all 5 elements at once, so I base him off of what Edo Hiruzen has done. And lets be real, Edo Hiruzen has done the least of all the revived Hokage in this war.

You're right about it not being in character for Minato to just summon toads, however what is in character is for Minato to spread dozens of kunai across the battefield which gives Minato the advantage. And if Minato aloows Tobirama, he can also use Minato's markings/FTG kunai.

It is impossible for Enma and Hiruzen to predict which kunai Minato/Tobirama will appear at, and it is not possible for Hiruzen to react faster than the 2 fastest characters in the NV. Minato/Tobirama's reflexes and speed trump Hiruzen's by a long way, no debate. And if Minato sees Hiruzen summon enma, then obviously a good counter for that is to summon his own toads (that would be in character).

No one can beat an FTG user in taijutsu unless you're a Juubi Jinchuuriki, it is not possible, don't lie to yourself. If you try and attack them close range, they can mark you with their jutsu formula and then Hiruzen is done. He wouldn't be so stupid to engage them in taijutsu. It's also easy for an FTG user to dodge all hits and appear in your blind spot, by strategically flicking a kunai past them and instantly slicing them from behind. We saw what Minato did to a Taijutsu king like Ay, Hiruzen is much slower than him yet Minato made him look like a statue.

He cannot beat either of them 1 vs 1, let alone 2 vs 1. And I'm not even taking into consideration Edo Tensei since I don't know what Tobirama's capabilities with this jutsu are, nor does Minato need Sage Mode which would wipe Hiruzen out of existence.

 

[xcoyote]

Hiruzen can solo.