[Theory] Hashirama and Madara

[kcy0]

Looking at how people viewed Hashirama's and Madara's relationship on Floydical's topic, I feel that Hashirama has always treated Madara as a true friend rather than his arch enemy, just like Naruto to Sasuke, therefor i don't see that Hashirama had any intention to kill Madara during the battle...but maybe there was an accident and here comes my theory.

Some jutsu went wayward (think Freeza vs Goku!) or maybe when Madara's chakra levels were low, he loses control of Kyuubi and it attacked him. Madara was then left mortally wounded and Hashirama attempts to revive his closest friend by transferring him life energy. This happens to be the formula (as explained by Floydical, +rep to him) to unlocking Rinnegan, Madara unlocks Rinnegan at his death, but it was too late and he dies from his wounds.

What do you guys think of this?

P. S. When exactly Madara actually dies, how his body was taken care of afterwards and how Kabuto manages to find Madara's DNA/body, that's another topic to discuss upon.

 

[Naruto UzRinneganMaki]

credible.

I was gonna rep you, until you said it was from someone else...
BTW, nice theory

 

[Kryptiic]

Didn't think of that nic theory

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

I don't think Hashirama was that merciful actually. I bet if he could outright kill Madara he would have.

I mean their clans fought time and time again, do you think that no one died during those fights?

Madara himself probably killed many Senju, so Hashirama would have wanted him dead to protect his people. So if he wasn't able to kill Madara before he had EMS, it is a longshot that he would have been able to outright kill Madara when he got it.

 

[Floydical]

Hmm interesting idea, but I don't think Hashirama was that merciful to Madara. I think that the two had respect for one another to the point that it was considered a friendship, but I doubt Hashirama would have revived him. He killed Madara because Madara was becoming a real threat to the world and only he could do it.

On a side note, I like how you added to the theory by saying he died, unlocked the rinnegan and hashirama tried to revive him, but perhaps he could have done that all on his own? If he essentially died and then unlocked the rinnegan, perhaps he was able to revive himself and that's how he lived? I don't think that's what really happened, since Madara knows Nagato, but it could be possible. And thanks for the rep! +rep for you!

 

[kcy0]

credible.

I was gonna rep you, until you said it was from someone else...
BTW, nice theory

My theory wasn't from someone else...I only referenced to Floydicals post on methods of unlocking the Rinnegan, but my backing story is different.

I don't think Hashirama was that merciful actually. I bet if he could outright kill Madara he would have.

I mean their clans fought time and time again, do you think that no one died during those fights?

Madara himself probably killed many Senju, so Hashirama would have wanted him dead to protect his people. So if he wasn't able to kill Madara before he had EMS, it is a longshot that he would have been able to outright kill Madara when he got it.

Their clans fought, but at the end, they shook hands and merged. At that point, if the leaders still felt hostile towards each other, the clans would still be fighting till this day.

Hmm interesting idea, but I don't think Hashirama was that merciful to Madara. I think that the two had respect for one another to the point that it was considered a friendship, but I doubt Hashirama would have revived him. He killed Madara because Madara was becoming a real threat to the world and only he could do it.

On a side note, I like how you added to the theory by saying he died, unlocked the rinnegan and hashirama tried to revive him, but perhaps he could have done that all on his own? If he essentially died and then unlocked the rinnegan, perhaps he was able to revive himself and that's how he lived? I don't think that's what really happened, since Madara knows Nagato, but it could be possible. And thanks for the rep! +rep for you!

If i remembered correctly, Madara challenged Hashirama. It would be unhonorable if you kill your challenger. I don't believe the great Hashirama would be that kind of person. I have nothing to back this up, its just how i feel.

How could someone obtain another person's power? To make matters worst, we are talking about Mokuton that many many test subjects has died from being incompatible. Its most logical to me that Hashirama passed on (weather its by his own free will or by genjutsu force) some of his powers to Madara. Hashirama was in good shape when Oro revived him, so he couldn't have lost any limbs or body parts, meaning physically merging with Hashirama (like Danzo and Shisui) is out of the question.

 

[kisamexRocks]

No, How would Madara know of Nagato if he had died during that battle.

 

[NLee]

Looking at how people viewed Hashirama's and Madara's relationship on Floydical's topic, I feel that Hashirama has always treated Madara as a true friend rather than his arch enemy, just like Naruto to Sasuke, therefor i don't see that Hashirama had any intention to kill Madara during the battle...but maybe there was an accident and here comes my theory.

Some jutsu went wayward (think Freeza vs Goku!) or maybe when Madara's chakra levels were low, he loses control of Kyuubi and it attacked him. Madara was then left mortally wounded and Hashirama attempts to revive his closest friend by transferring him life energy. This happens to be the formula (as explained by Floydical, +rep to him) to unlocking Rinnegan, Madara unlocks Rinnegan at his death, but it was too late and he dies from his wounds.

What do you guys think of this?

P. S. When exactly Madara actually dies, how his body was taken care of afterwards and how Kabuto manages to find Madara's DNA/body, that's another topic to discuss upon.

Sounds plausible.

It all draws from the Sage's younger son. The Sage chose his younger son because he believed that love was the key to peace, not strength. It only makes sense that the younger brother was the compassionate and caring/loving type.

This is shown in Naruto and I wouldn't doubt it showed in Hashirama too. He was elected Hokage by even the Uchiha's for a reason, because they saw something in Hashirama that Madara didn't have - the ability to make way towards peace.



Your theory makes sense. +rep

 

[kcy0]

No, How would Madara know of Nagato if he had died during that battle.

True, maybe he died a bit later when he figured he could use Mokuton which unlocked his Rinnegan's then met Nagato. But who had to power to kill Madara if it wasn't Hashirama?

Nagato is very likely to be a test subject of Tobi and Madara and I don't have a clue on this little side story. Back to you Kishimoto!

 

[Baka Sennin]

could be, but unless we're shown that madara was nicer when he was younger, i don't see how hashirama could have been friends with him. not even the uchiha liked madara apparently... plus, they were rivals not friends. i don't think hashirama would have given him power when he was trying to crush the village.

also, madara most likely survived long after the battle, if he knew nagato. i think he outlived hashirama considerably, if he was able to reach the second ninja war alive. i'm not sure hashirama would leave such a threat to the village running around. my guess is that madara tricked hashirama with some genjutsu to make as if he was dead or something, just before his defeat.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Their clans fought, but at the end, they shook hands and merged. At that point, if the leaders still felt hostile towards each other, the clans would still be fighting till this day.

Madara never agreed with it, he was always mad and wanted to fight them. But you missed my point, before they were a village and were just clans they fought over and over and were enemies do you think that Hashirama would have rather saved his clan members by killing Madara or that he would allow Madara to live at the cost of more of his clan?

Which one seems more plausible? So it can be concluded that Hashi was actually trying to kill Madara but couldn't kill him before he had EMS so how would he kill him after Madara got a power boost?

 

[niblack89]

Good theory but Madara met Nagato. Nagato was a kid when the sennin's were adults.

 

[psukkar]

Looking at how people viewed Hashirama's and Madara's relationship on Floydical's topic, I feel that Hashirama has always treated Madara as a true friend rather than his arch enemy, just like Naruto to Sasuke, therefor i don't see that Hashirama had any intention to kill Madara during the battle...but maybe there was an accident and here comes my theory.

Some jutsu went wayward (think Freeza vs Goku!) or maybe when Madara's chakra levels were low, he loses control of Kyuubi and it attacked him. Madara was then left mortally wounded and Hashirama attempts to revive his closest friend by transferring him life energy. This happens to be the formula (as explained by Floydical, +rep to him) to unlocking Rinnegan, Madara unlocks Rinnegan at his death, but it was too late and he dies from his wounds.

What do you guys think of this?

P. S. When exactly Madara actually dies, how his body was taken care of afterwards and how Kabuto manages to find Madara's DNA/body, that's another topic to discuss upon.

could be, good job

 

[Whiteknight]

Looking at how people viewed Hashirama's and Madara's relationship on Floydical's topic, I feel that Hashirama has always treated Madara as a true friend rather than his arch enemy, just like Naruto to Sasuke, therefor i don't see that Hashirama had any intention to kill Madara during the battle...but maybe there was an accident and here comes my theory.

Some jutsu went wayward (think Freeza vs Goku!) or maybe when Madara's chakra levels were low, he loses control of Kyuubi and it attacked him. Madara was then left mortally wounded and Hashirama attempts to revive his closest friend by transferring him life energy. This happens to be the formula (as explained by Floydical, +rep to him) to unlocking Rinnegan, Madara unlocks Rinnegan at his death, but it was too late and he dies from his wounds.

What do you guys think of this?

No. We know that Hashirama had the will of fire. That was his big thing. It's his desire to protect the village that he cared about the most, not his friendship or even ambivalence towards Madara. Hashirama was working to protect the village, while Madara was an avenger who wanted to get revenge and destroy the village. 60+ years later Madara came back to the village and helped massacre the Uchiha. Do you think Hashirama would have helped Madara if he knew that?

The most logical explanation is the most straight-forward one: The two fought to the death. Madara used some kind of trick to pretend to die and Hashirama was convinced by it. During the battle, Hashirama was wounded (which eventually lead to his own death during the first ninja war) from which Madara stole a sample of his Blood/DNA for doing experiments on.

Considering all the techniques Madara could have had at his disposal to fake his own death (I've listed them all in other threads, but a short version is: Izanagi, Tsukuyomi, Zetsu clones, Rinnegan-related techniques, etc), it makes no sense to assume that he didn't do it that way.

Also, why would Hashirama lie to the village about what happened? If Hashirama said he tried to reform and save Madara, he would have been celebrated as a merciful hero. The village would have known what happened. I'm sure there were spectators.