[Discussion] Has Zoro lost his substance?
- Thread starter ultraChalk
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So why don't you give a reason why ? Anyone can post a stupid gif or a dumb meme, but this isn't 2008 anymore that shit got old.
Explain to me what Zoro contributed to the arc besides the fact that he beats his enemy, because every SH beats his enemy every arc.
It's Franky who wanted to help Tontattas, Sanji group are going against BM after that to Zou, Luffy has Colosseum story Usopp and Robin in the harbor and Sugar. And Kin'emon looking for his friend. Where was Zoro in all this ? He was chasing a fairy and joined multiple of these storylines was later pre-occupied with Pica in the town confused by his devil fruit.
Same thing can be done with Punk Hazard and Fishman island, but there the fairy is Brownbeard and a cage in Fishman island.
So if you want to call me out and say it's bullshit with your stupid ****ing gif. Then please entertain me and explain how he contributed more to the story then most sh's ? Or why that he isn't a 'tool' which pops up at the end to destroy the strong guy in the arc, because to me that is what it looks like after the timeskip.
He also received very little character development, and don't come up with trivial shit because I don't care for that kind of shit. Give me some Zoro moments where we can see some personal growth. Or something that drives him or saddens him or whatever. I can help you aside from the part where he cut Monet (I don't really think its character development, but I'll count it for the sake of the argument) there is none.
If it happens 1 time it might be a coincidence, 2 times makes it suspicious, but 3 times is a pattern. I know writing isn't your strong suit, but the floor is all yours now wise ass.
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NarutoBmx33
Member
Not thay he's changed, it's just that he hasn't faced any serious opponents yet.
@Love Cook- And what have the other ST members done to contribute greatly?
@Love Cook- And what have the other ST members done to contribute greatly?
Ah another blind one, next time I will make sure my rant will be in braille. I explained exactly what everyone has been doing in Dressrosa and how it contributed to the story, then I said that it follows the same pattern in the previous 2 arcs.
If you follow Zoro during an arc nothing exciting is bound till happen until the very end. But basically every other SH has some sidestory that he or she explores. Sure some characters are benched a bit more, but Zoro is benched since timeskip.
Zoro has no joyboy poneglyph or tontattas or sick kids. He just runs around or gets hold up or joins another group or whatever.
And to prove that you didnt read at all you start about fights again. Character development has nothing to do with strength or who Zoro is fighting. It has everything to do with him not taking any initiative to do stuff, or his backstory, his passion, his fears and dreams. Non of that is revealed and he just keeps running around the islands waiting till the fighting kicks off. So that is in my book an empty shell of his pre-timeskip self.
I will send this to you in audio format, in case you have trouble reading again.
Also What is ST Straw Tats ?
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Attachment: Copy of speech on page 1 for the visually impaired users.wmv
NarutoBmx33
Member
@ Love Cook
(Sighs) Let's indulge in your statements, shall we?
First of all, the Tashigi and Kuina relationship with Zoro is one of the most interesting stories and combination in the series. I agree that with Kuina there can't be much done with that story anymore, but with Tashigi, it's very possible. Even in Punk Hazard, Zoro and Tashigi had a rivalry type of connection and they'll deffinitely cross paths in the future, for good and bad reasons.
And Zoro has become predictable? He gets lost and comes back at the end to fight? Zoro getting lost is equivalent to Sanji drooling over girls- they both have their own bad habits. Example of this is when they meet at SA after the timeskip, Sanji goes drooling over to the girl in the foodstand, while Zoro keeps going looking for a fishing pole. Sure he got lost with the fairy, but you're ignoring his other actions so far. He took part in the fight at Fishmen Island, he was with Brook and Ussop, and fought with everybody else at the plaza, he even fough Hody before Luffy did. With BrownBeard, Sanji, Brook, and Kinemon were also there, not just Zoro. Predictability can be seen in almost every StrawHat member, Ussop gets scared and doesn't want to leave the ship, Luffy wants to go to dangerous places, Robin wants to look for the poneglyphs and her research wherever they go.
It's Franky who wanted to help the Tontattas, Sanji's group who's dealing with BM, and Luffy with the collaseum and Doflamingo? You think Zoro's wasting his time? Again, he was running around with the fairy, and Sanji was running after Violet and got captured by her because of his habit. Zoro was with Kinemon half the time, and stopped Pica before to let Luffy proceed with Violet, then again to let Luffy proceed to go fight Doflamingo. What has Nami contributed on her behalf? Zoro had one of the most important duties, to clear the path for his captain (physically). And you don’t think Zoro cutting Monet is character development? He cut her without Haki, it shows how much his character has grown in terms of strength and personality. Tashigi even mentions it.
You want to see moments where Zoro had personal growth? How about you show me moments of Nami’s growth? Ussops growth? And don’t you think Oda might be saving Zoro’s time to display his new power in the Wano country? His passion and dreams? Have you forgotten why he’s even in the SH crew? Nami didn’t take any initiative, so?
Just because I didn’t reply with full explanation the first time doesn’t make me blind, stop being all cocky. And I made a mistake by writing “ST” instead of “SH”. Grammar mistakes don’t make a person stupid. When people attack the other person’s grammar, it usually means that’s all they have to argue against.
Do you want me to send you an audio format and a translator?
(Sighs) Let's indulge in your statements, shall we?
First of all, the Tashigi and Kuina relationship with Zoro is one of the most interesting stories and combination in the series. I agree that with Kuina there can't be much done with that story anymore, but with Tashigi, it's very possible. Even in Punk Hazard, Zoro and Tashigi had a rivalry type of connection and they'll deffinitely cross paths in the future, for good and bad reasons.
And Zoro has become predictable? He gets lost and comes back at the end to fight? Zoro getting lost is equivalent to Sanji drooling over girls- they both have their own bad habits. Example of this is when they meet at SA after the timeskip, Sanji goes drooling over to the girl in the foodstand, while Zoro keeps going looking for a fishing pole. Sure he got lost with the fairy, but you're ignoring his other actions so far. He took part in the fight at Fishmen Island, he was with Brook and Ussop, and fought with everybody else at the plaza, he even fough Hody before Luffy did. With BrownBeard, Sanji, Brook, and Kinemon were also there, not just Zoro. Predictability can be seen in almost every StrawHat member, Ussop gets scared and doesn't want to leave the ship, Luffy wants to go to dangerous places, Robin wants to look for the poneglyphs and her research wherever they go.
It's Franky who wanted to help the Tontattas, Sanji's group who's dealing with BM, and Luffy with the collaseum and Doflamingo? You think Zoro's wasting his time? Again, he was running around with the fairy, and Sanji was running after Violet and got captured by her because of his habit. Zoro was with Kinemon half the time, and stopped Pica before to let Luffy proceed with Violet, then again to let Luffy proceed to go fight Doflamingo. What has Nami contributed on her behalf? Zoro had one of the most important duties, to clear the path for his captain (physically). And you don’t think Zoro cutting Monet is character development? He cut her without Haki, it shows how much his character has grown in terms of strength and personality. Tashigi even mentions it.
You want to see moments where Zoro had personal growth? How about you show me moments of Nami’s growth? Ussops growth? And don’t you think Oda might be saving Zoro’s time to display his new power in the Wano country? His passion and dreams? Have you forgotten why he’s even in the SH crew? Nami didn’t take any initiative, so?
Just because I didn’t reply with full explanation the first time doesn’t make me blind, stop being all cocky. And I made a mistake by writing “ST” instead of “SH”. Grammar mistakes don’t make a person stupid. When people attack the other person’s grammar, it usually means that’s all they have to argue against.
Do you want me to send you an audio format and a translator?
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In terms of character development he hasn't changed much personality wise. He's grown exponentially in strength but thats it.
Im sure during wano he will come along. He did swallow his pride to train under his rival mihawk. Thats saying something about him although we've know thats he's always been loyal.
Im sure during wano he will come along. He did swallow his pride to train under his rival mihawk. Thats saying something about him although we've know thats he's always been loyal.
You did a good job listing all the character goofs, but this isn't about Zoro getting lost or nosebleeds. This is about Zoro not taking action.
His only link to his backstory is Tashigi so its sad that every 3 arcs that she appears in this was the only bit of interaction between those two,
Yes, Zoro was wasting time chasing that fairy because it only lead him to franky's group pretty much and he got his sword back. Sanji chasing Violet was basically the begin of the counter attack because DOflamingo was counting on her to kill Sanji. That is why he was surprised by Sanji showing up to save sunny crew and he learned about Violets' betrayal and the SH's plans. So you can't compare one chase scene over the other.
Also I don't want to go in about other SH's because this thread is about Zoro. If you want that example about Nami taking initiative, think back to Punk Hazard where she told everybody NO ! we're not going on without these kids, which basically changed all the plans. And I know his dream is to be the WSS, but you don't hear lot about it just like his backstory, Zoro is just there in the back of the panel taking a nap most of the time.
Usopp was the god on this island, Robin was looking for poneglyph, Franky was targeted by Ceasar and wanted to save tontatta, Chopper wanted to make a medicine for the kids, Sanji and Luffy have been in all kinds of storylines, Nami played her part in PH and Brook was just a letdown the past couple of arcs.
I really can't think of anything that Zoro set out to do other than to defeat his direct opponent (because every SH does) that would've changed the arc drastically. Let's face it. he has been tagging along for the ride the last three arcs.
NarutoBmx33
Member
So Zoro wasted his time and should've just let the fairy take his sword? Sanji being captured by Violet had a meaning towards it, and so did Zoro chasing the fairy, because it all connected.
Backstory? Where is Sanji's backstory so far? Ussop's backstory? You keep pinning Zoro but forget about the other SH members.
And Zoro did take initiative, he told Luffy to get serious now that they are in the NW, nobody else thought it was important enough. His role as first mate is very important. Nami telling NO! changed all the plans? Well who do you think let them escape? If it had not been for Zoro, who knows what could've happened. Zoro changed the plans by defeating Monet.
Robin was looking for a poneglyph? Well Zoro was looking for his sword. Both important to their own goals.
No you're not getting what I'm saying. Of course he needed his sword back but of all the things that were going on he drew the short end of the stick again.
Also I'm not saying that they all nee work on their backstory right now, but the option was there Tashigi and Zoro had some time together and nothing was said and done. Missed opportunity ? Maybe.
Yes Zoro defeated Monet but as I said that has become his only thing, Kill the big bad at the end of the arc, in the mean time he is pre-occupied with unimportant stuff unlike the rest. Also everybody fights a baddie at the end, so that doesn't really sets him apart.
And Robin looking for a poneglyph is the same as the two chase scenes you tried to compare. A sword vs Violet, it might be important but it doesn't progress the story and it doesn't tell us something about Zoro. Robin looking for poneglyphs opens up a new story line with a link to ancient history and what happened to her home town.
That is the difference, and Zoro yelling to get a grip isn't really that impressive once in three arcs, I think the way Sanji is handeling Big Mom situation resembles more of a first mate job than what Zoro has been doing.
But I'm not going to argue any further because you're trying to show all the good things Zoro has done, but they don't really hold up versus the rest of the crew. And I'm done telling the same story every time.
Bottom line is: Zoro is here at the start -> Zoro is busy doing unrelated stuff -> Zoro is back just in time to defeat bad guy and ends with a one liner.
NarutoBmx33
Member
Good points.
But you're also just listing the negatives of Zoro.
And that's always been Zoro's character. He's just cocky yet knows his place.
One question, what has Sanji handled with the BM crew? It hasn't even shown yet.
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Sweet Pudding
Active member
I really don't get the point of threads like these.
Zoro is Zoro, he is like he always was, just like all the other characters are. Never change a winning team. In reality none of the Strawhats relatively seen changed after the timeskip. The only one who had so far a real 'upgrade', was Usopp. Everyone else has been the way the always were, only all of them were risen to the next level during the time skip, but from a relative point of view they didn't really change.
Any supposed change people are nitpicking on for other characters are non existent or so puny it's barely worth mentioning. If people are going in on those, they are simply pulling things out of proportion and see things what they want to see.
Zoro is Zoro, he is like he always was, just like all the other characters are. Never change a winning team. In reality none of the Strawhats relatively seen changed after the timeskip. The only one who had so far a real 'upgrade', was Usopp. Everyone else has been the way the always were, only all of them were risen to the next level during the time skip, but from a relative point of view they didn't really change.
Any supposed change people are nitpicking on for other characters are non existent or so puny it's barely worth mentioning. If people are going in on those, they are simply pulling things out of proportion and see things what they want to see.
ultraChalk
Active member
Awards
Very insightful post, but I definitely have to call you out on Chopper. He's played some pretty vital points. His passion for curing people has gotten strong every arc, and he got really emotional in Punk Hazard and showed just how much he cared about those kids. He was important there, it explored his personality more.
And he stopped Sanji from bleeding to death in Fishman island, didn't he?
However he hasn't done squat this arc, because he's been occupied. But Chopper is still playing a very important role. Also, Brook is soon going to become important again... we learned during his recruitment that he was a former general of the fencing squad (?) of some kingdom that we don't know about... that's definitely going to become important later on.
I'd say Nami has changed a lot, or we're at least exploring her personality more. Especially during Punk Hazard. We had no idea of how strong her passion for kids were, or that she admired female marines. Those were some major plot points.
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zoro never was end never will be a charac with a good personality development.
zoro is 60% bad ass and 40 % smack talk,but for some reason that works for most people.it's not a bad thing and basically he's the same person he was before and will always be.
zoro is 60% bad ass and 40 % smack talk,but for some reason that works for most people.it's not a bad thing and basically he's the same person he was before and will always be.
NarutoBmx33
Member
