Tazzilla88
Anbu Operative 🎭
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I know a lot of these threads about Sakura are bash threads, and this may feel like one. But, it's not. I simply find it peculiar that an ordinary girl would surpass a person of senju/uzumaki lineage using the exact techniques that Tsunade uses.
My personal guess, is no Sakura didn't actually surpass Tsunade at all, at least not before Boruto. As far as we've seen, she could have by finally focusing in genjutu, but it doesn't appear she went down that route.
I'll lay out my argument:
The most immediate thing that comes to anyone's mind regarding this topic is Hashirama's praise of Sakura's strength.
Most people decide to interpret that moment as a statement on Tsunade's strength in the War Arc as it's absurd to think of a child as super strong. Others would argue that's impossible as he hadn't seen Adult Tsunade's strength. Fanbases which usually coalesce splinter on this point.
I used to belong to the former, but now to the latter. Rereading the manga, watching the anime again, and reading through the databook have reminded me of a few things.
The very first priority then is noting the difference between how Sakura and Tsunade's strength is described. In part 1 it is clearly established that Tsunade relies on natural strength.
According to the entry on Heavenly Kick of Pain, Tsunade in base utilizes natural strength.
This narrative fits with other knowledge we garnered from part 1. Such as her ability to lift Gamabunta's tanto or the decrease in Tsunade's destructive power after her biceps were cut. This
compared to
The passage's focus on her body's outrageous strength is quite different than the passage on Okasho: Sakura Strike
In Shippuden we were introduced to Chakra Enhanced Strength (CES)
Now, as Sakura's master is Tsunade and CES is an application of medical ninjutsu people rightly assess that Tsunade taught Sakura how to use the ability. But given what we learned in part 1. It doesn't make sense to assume that Tsunade uses this technique in base as thus far of all Tsunade's part 1 feats Heavenly Kick of Pain was the most devastating. It was done with only brute strength. Thus, it doesn't stand to reason that anything else she used in that time period was chakra enhanced.
This would especially seem to be the case given the potency of Tsunade's chakra demonstrated in Oonoki's Jinton.
My personal thoughts is that CES is generally a part of a moveset Tsunade uses when the Yin Seal is activated, as opposed to Sakura who uses CES at all times. Which I think may account for the perceived difference in power between Tsunade's previous performance and her War Arc performance.
Given that Tsunade was powerful enough to graduate the academy at 6, and given that her natural strength really does exist at monstrous levels. In addition to her lineage it would make logical sense for Hashirama to be discussing a much younger Tsunade. If a current analysis on Sakura's progress to Tsunade's power was to be made Shizune was on stand by to make it.
I'm fully aware of how absurd all of this sounds, but one more thing to consider. The consequence of Sozo Sasei and Byakugou is that they make you grow old faster. Tsunade masks this with a transformation jutsu, but when the jutsu wears off or is turned off she appears to be older than Hiruzen. She was stated to be out of her prime in her introduction, and has only grown older due to healing and actually getting older. She got back in shape, true, but as we saw in the case of Hiruzen, and to a degree Oonoki, age takes its toll. Regardless Tsunade's physical strength while still immense would be notably lower than when she was in her prime as she her body shows twenty extra years of age. Afterall, Jiraiya said in the Viz translation "That Tsunade... Still got monster strength even after all these years, eh... ... I remember once getting clobbered by her and being blown back almost 100 meters..."
The phrasing specifically dictates however, that strength dissipates with age.
Presumably Tsunade developed Creation Rebirth and Byakugou before she retired, as one doesn't get that old from using the jutsu twice (see Boruto Sakura) in addition to the Byakugou jutsu being old enough to be present in the rules for medic shinobi. As she stated she retired from medicine and Tsunade's combat prowess was remarkably lower than the War Arc in the Search For Tsunade Arc her development of jutsus likely also ceased. When combined with the info that Katsuyu's ability is tied to the Yin Seal, and Tsunade became known as Tsunade princess of Slugs and Elixirs during the Second Shinobi War, and Dan and Nawaki's death were the catalyst for Byakugou. It figures that the jutsu would have been created around that time. Given that, Orochimaru was unfamiliar with Sozo Sasei she must have developed it either after he left or after she left. Yet she would have had her Yin Seal when she became known as the princess of slugs and elixirs which means that since no chakra went to her transformation jutsu, and she didn't utilize Byakugou (which is a a huge exertion on the chakra as it is an continual unconscious use of sozo sazei which the databook describes has having such an enormous chakra cost that no ninja had at that point displayed (and no ninja with less chakra than Hashirama sized pools could do)), so it stands to reason she used the seal to support her ninjutusu , taijutsu, and summoning.
Regardless Sakura doesn't have innate monster level strength. Tsunade has this ability in addition to CES. Hashirama's comment then as he doesn't know about Tsunade or Sakura's usage of the jutsu could simply be a comparison between Natural Strength Tsunade and CES Sakura. Thus I find it difficult to believe that CES = CES + Monster Strength, especially given the difference in their jutsu efficiency.
A lot of people would like to suggest that Sakura surpassed Tsunade as a medic in the War Arc with her usage of Byakugou (a technique Tsunade created whereas Sakura learned). This idea is clearly rejected. Despite having the extra strength of a Kurama cloak (both her own and Shikas), Sakura struggled to stave off Shikamaru's death with all of her might. With barely a thought and only a tap Tsunade brought him back to peak health. Thus we could see the clear difference in their proficiency of jutsu usage.
While Sakura is a genius of outstanding magnitude (after all Shizune was heralded as a medical genius), she didn't hold a flame to Tsunade in her ability to perform jutsu. This point goes to serve two points. One the power of Tsunade's chakra and the level of Tsunade's efficiency and proficiency in her jutsus.
Beyond that, Tsunade's durability feats and taijutsu ability still surpassed Sakura's in the War Arc. Being able to land a punch on a wood clone, fight 5 susanoos for hours without being killed, having the ability to deflect ninjutsu with her fists, and surviving bisection while healing your teammates all place Tsunade in different tiers than Sakura.
Many Sakura fans mention that War Arc Sakura is only 17. That is very true. However, she is a ninja that uses a ninjutsu that shortens ones lifespan without the blessing of Uzumaki heritage. Further it neglects that a prime Tsunade had greater monstrous natural strength, incredibly potent chakra, CES, enough taijutsu experience for 95 S rank missions, Byakugou and 4 elements(with jutsus like ranshinsho), and was likely faster due to youth before retiring. Up against Sakura who has Byakugou, CES, and 2 elemental affinities.
Well, thoughts?
My personal guess, is no Sakura didn't actually surpass Tsunade at all, at least not before Boruto. As far as we've seen, she could have by finally focusing in genjutu, but it doesn't appear she went down that route.
I'll lay out my argument:
The most immediate thing that comes to anyone's mind regarding this topic is Hashirama's praise of Sakura's strength.
You must be registered for see images
I used to belong to the former, but now to the latter. Rereading the manga, watching the anime again, and reading through the databook have reminded me of a few things.
The very first priority then is noting the difference between how Sakura and Tsunade's strength is described. In part 1 it is clearly established that Tsunade relies on natural strength.
According to the entry on Heavenly Kick of Pain, Tsunade in base utilizes natural strength.
This narrative fits with other knowledge we garnered from part 1. Such as her ability to lift Gamabunta's tanto or the decrease in Tsunade's destructive power after her biceps were cut. This
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
In Shippuden we were introduced to Chakra Enhanced Strength (CES)
You must be registered for see images
This would especially seem to be the case given the potency of Tsunade's chakra demonstrated in Oonoki's Jinton.
My personal thoughts is that CES is generally a part of a moveset Tsunade uses when the Yin Seal is activated, as opposed to Sakura who uses CES at all times. Which I think may account for the perceived difference in power between Tsunade's previous performance and her War Arc performance.
Given that Tsunade was powerful enough to graduate the academy at 6, and given that her natural strength really does exist at monstrous levels. In addition to her lineage it would make logical sense for Hashirama to be discussing a much younger Tsunade. If a current analysis on Sakura's progress to Tsunade's power was to be made Shizune was on stand by to make it.
I'm fully aware of how absurd all of this sounds, but one more thing to consider. The consequence of Sozo Sasei and Byakugou is that they make you grow old faster. Tsunade masks this with a transformation jutsu, but when the jutsu wears off or is turned off she appears to be older than Hiruzen. She was stated to be out of her prime in her introduction, and has only grown older due to healing and actually getting older. She got back in shape, true, but as we saw in the case of Hiruzen, and to a degree Oonoki, age takes its toll. Regardless Tsunade's physical strength while still immense would be notably lower than when she was in her prime as she her body shows twenty extra years of age. Afterall, Jiraiya said in the Viz translation "That Tsunade... Still got monster strength even after all these years, eh... ... I remember once getting clobbered by her and being blown back almost 100 meters..."
You must be registered for see images
Presumably Tsunade developed Creation Rebirth and Byakugou before she retired, as one doesn't get that old from using the jutsu twice (see Boruto Sakura) in addition to the Byakugou jutsu being old enough to be present in the rules for medic shinobi. As she stated she retired from medicine and Tsunade's combat prowess was remarkably lower than the War Arc in the Search For Tsunade Arc her development of jutsus likely also ceased. When combined with the info that Katsuyu's ability is tied to the Yin Seal, and Tsunade became known as Tsunade princess of Slugs and Elixirs during the Second Shinobi War, and Dan and Nawaki's death were the catalyst for Byakugou. It figures that the jutsu would have been created around that time. Given that, Orochimaru was unfamiliar with Sozo Sasei she must have developed it either after he left or after she left. Yet she would have had her Yin Seal when she became known as the princess of slugs and elixirs which means that since no chakra went to her transformation jutsu, and she didn't utilize Byakugou (which is a a huge exertion on the chakra as it is an continual unconscious use of sozo sazei which the databook describes has having such an enormous chakra cost that no ninja had at that point displayed (and no ninja with less chakra than Hashirama sized pools could do)), so it stands to reason she used the seal to support her ninjutusu , taijutsu, and summoning.
Regardless Sakura doesn't have innate monster level strength. Tsunade has this ability in addition to CES. Hashirama's comment then as he doesn't know about Tsunade or Sakura's usage of the jutsu could simply be a comparison between Natural Strength Tsunade and CES Sakura. Thus I find it difficult to believe that CES = CES + Monster Strength, especially given the difference in their jutsu efficiency.
A lot of people would like to suggest that Sakura surpassed Tsunade as a medic in the War Arc with her usage of Byakugou (a technique Tsunade created whereas Sakura learned). This idea is clearly rejected. Despite having the extra strength of a Kurama cloak (both her own and Shikas), Sakura struggled to stave off Shikamaru's death with all of her might. With barely a thought and only a tap Tsunade brought him back to peak health. Thus we could see the clear difference in their proficiency of jutsu usage.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
Beyond that, Tsunade's durability feats and taijutsu ability still surpassed Sakura's in the War Arc. Being able to land a punch on a wood clone, fight 5 susanoos for hours without being killed, having the ability to deflect ninjutsu with her fists, and surviving bisection while healing your teammates all place Tsunade in different tiers than Sakura.
Many Sakura fans mention that War Arc Sakura is only 17. That is very true. However, she is a ninja that uses a ninjutsu that shortens ones lifespan without the blessing of Uzumaki heritage. Further it neglects that a prime Tsunade had greater monstrous natural strength, incredibly potent chakra, CES, enough taijutsu experience for 95 S rank missions, Byakugou and 4 elements(with jutsus like ranshinsho), and was likely faster due to youth before retiring. Up against Sakura who has Byakugou, CES, and 2 elemental affinities.
Well, thoughts?
