[Question] Has Luffy won a fight 1v1 since Punk Hazard?

chopstickchakra

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I was thinking about it the other day and while we're seeing Luffy at the strongest we've ever seen him we haven't seen him 1v1 a major arc villain since Caesar.

The fight against Doffy he had Law.
Against BM he had Bege(they didn't defeat her then but still)
Against Kata, Kata damaged himself
Kaido took whole team to be put down

Don't get me wrong I appreciate their threat level being done justice but it's also a little odd that as our character is at his strongest is when he needs help the most.
 

Skull Knight

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Does it matter if something is 1v1 or not?
This argument that Luffy got help or the antagonist was busy with something was seen in part 1 also.

Back at Arlong arc when Luffy was getting rescued, it was Zoro n Sanji who were fighting Arlong.
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In Alabasta arc he got help from the old guy who gave him water. As well as got helped multiple times from Nico Robin inform of antidote or when he was stuck in quick sand after his fight with crocodile.
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In Thriller Bark he got help from his entire crew as well as a temporary powerup inform of Nightmare Luffy.
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But if we simply talk about part 2 then back in:
Dressrosa Arc:
-We saw Luffy fighting Chinjao at coliseum, fighting Pika at various moments and then he reached at the top he had to fight Bellamy. While Doffy was busy whole day with battered Law(and here Doffy himself got help from Fujitora). Even at the end he was joined by Trebol.

WCI Arc:
-Here multiple fights happened. Luffy has to fight Cracker, foot soldiers, BM and Katakuri everything in what 24-48hrs span.
If we talk about Katakuri fight then we should not forget that he also got external help from Flampe and those chefs who brought him food.

Wano Arc:
-Now this arc we know Kaido was fighting Scabbards, Supernovas, Yamato and then G5 Luffy. Whereas Luffy was fighting Flying six members, Numbers, BM and Kaido.

Yes none of the final fights were 1v1. But this is how Oda writes most of his arc.
 
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chopstickchakra

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Does it matter if something is 1v1 or not?
This argument that Luffy got help or the antagonist was busy with something was seen in part 1 also.

Back at Arlong arc when Luffy was getting rescued, it was Zoro n Sanji who were fighting Arlong.
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In Alabasta arc he got help from the old guy who gave him water. As well as got helped multiple times from Nico Robin inform of antidote or when he was stuck in quick sand after his fight with crocodile.
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In Thriller Bark he got help from his entire crew as well as a temporary powerup inform of Nightmare Luffy.
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But if we simply talk about part 2 then back in:
Dressrosa Arc:
-We saw Luffy fighting Chinjao at coliseum, fighting Pika at various moments and then he reached at the top he had to fight Bellamy. While Doffy was busy whole day with battered Law(and here Doffy himself got help from Fujitora). Even at the end he was joined by Trebol.

WCI Arc:
-Here multiple fights happened. Luffy has to fight Cracker, foot soldiers, BM and Katakuri everything in what 24-48hrs span.
If we talk about Katakuri fight then we should not forget that he also got external help from Flampe and those chefs who brought him food.

Wano Arc:
-Now this arc we know Kaido was fighting Scabbards, Supernovas, Yamato and then G5 Luffy. Whereas Luffy was fighting Flying six members, Numbers, BM and Kaido.

Yes none of the final fights were 1v1. But this is how Oda writes most of his arc.
First off I never said it mattered, just pointing out an observation. Secondly I said major arc villains.

Helping Luffy after a fight ends isn't the same as helping him in the fight. No one helped him fight or beat Croc.

Zoro and Sanji while buying time for Luffy also did no real damage in that fight against Arlong. Saying they contributed to his defeat is a bit of a stretch.

I never said his enemies didn't also have to fight other people as well. Not sure what that has to do with the original point though.

Also having separate fights before the main fight is not the same as fighting multiple people at once. Luffy had some fights before Doffy sure but Doffy had to fight 2v1, it's not the same.

Is it how he writes most of his arcs? Most arcs I seem to remember the other SH's all having their own opponents to fight so not really being able to help Luffy against the main villain. They throw in some assistance in some fights but I can't recall many fights before now when Luffy fought alongside someone else to take down the main villain.


Talking significant contributions to a fight Luffy on his own beat;
Krieg
Croc
Buggy
Arlong
Enel
Wapol
Moria(SH's and Nightmare were for Oars)
Lucci
Hody
Nobody fought alongside Luffy to finish these opponents. There may be moments where they had to fight others before the final fight but that's not the same as them helping during the final fight.
 
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Skull Knight

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First off I never said it mattered, just pointing out an observation. Secondly I said major arc villains.

Helping Luffy after a fight ends isn't the same as helping him in the fight. No one helped him fight or beat Croc.

I never said his enemies didn't also have to fight other people as well. Not sure what that has to do with the original point though.
Is there any difference?
You wrote;
Kaido took whole team to be put down
But if u go back and re-read Alabasta arc then you will see Crocodile was fighting multiple ppl like Kaido was before Luffy finished him.
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Even Robin tried to assassinate him.
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And yes this happened in between Crocodile Vs Luffy.


Zoro and Sanji while buying time for Luffy also did no real damage in that fight against Arlong. Saying they contributed to his defeat is a bit of a stretch.
Point is he got help not only from Nojiko and that guy(whose name i forgot) while Zoro and Sanji was fighting him.

In WCI, Katakuri noted that it was due to Flampe Luffy took his hit which is why he hurt himself.

In case of Doffy, he sealed his wounds instantly.

Kaido didn't even cared about the initial hits he was taking from Supernovas as he wanna test them. So in your words they also did no real damage untill Luffy went full G5 and start using Conqueror shit.

Also having separate fights before the main fight is not the same as fighting multiple people at once. Luffy had some fights before Doffy sure but Doffy had to fight 2v1, it's not the same.
You say Luffy had Law in his corner but you won't point that Doffy had Trebol and Bellamy in his corner.
If we simply go by numbers then it should be 3v2 at the end of Dressrosa.

Is it how he writes most of his arcs? Most arcs I seem to remember the other SH's all having their own opponents to fight so not really being able to help Luffy against the main villain. They throw in some assistance in some fights but I can't recall many fights before now when Luffy fought alongside someone else to take down the main villain.
All most all the arcs are similar in nature. Yes SHs have to fight there individual fights and couple of them helped Luffy in his fight against Main villain. It happened in Arlong Park as shown. Happened in Alabasta Arc, Happened in Thriller Bark and even in Skypiea too
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And if Yamato joins then yes it happened in Wano too lol.

Nobody fought alongside Luffy to finish these opponents. There may be moments where they had to fight others before the final fight but that's not the same as them helping during the final fight.
What will you call a final fight?
Luffy fought with Crocodile on 3different occasion which is similar to Kaido fight. If you consider Luffy vs Crocodile (Temple fight) as last fight then you should consider G5 Luffy vs Kaido as final fight which is technically 1v1.
 

chopstickchakra

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Is there any difference?
You wrote;
Yes there's a big difference between fighting people a few hours before another fight and fighting multiple people at once. Multiple attacks from multiple angles no rest between attackers do I need more reasons?

But if u go back and re-read Alabasta arc then you will see Crocodile was fighting multiple ppl like Kaido was before Luffy finished him.
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Even Robin tried to assassinate him.
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And yes this happened in between Crocodile Vs Luffy.
Also we both know none of those fights for Croc meant anything as none of those guys had haki to harm him. So you're trying to equate Croc fighting scrubs who can't harm him to Kaido fighting like 15 people at once. Those are not the same.

Point is he got help not only from Nojiko and that guy(whose name i forgot) while Zoro and Sanji was fighting him.

In WCI, Katakuri noted that it was due to Flampe Luffy took his hit which is why he hurt himself.

In case of Doffy, he sealed his wounds instantly.
I'm not denying he's had help during his fights before I'm saying helping Luffy isn't the same as fighting alongside him against the opponent.

Yes Flampe interfered first that doesn't change the fact Kata still handicapped himself in the fight which played a significant role in Luffy "winning" the fight. And I say "winning" because honestly Luffy won Kata over moreso than beat him.

And Doffy didn't just magically heal his organs back to 100% just by stitching them up that's not how organs work, stitches can come undone through excessive movements meaning he would be continually restitching his wound.

Kaido didn't even cared about the initial hits he was taking from Supernovas as he wanna test them. So in your words they also did no real damage untill Luffy went full G5 and start using Conqueror shit.
The Scabbards cut him multiple times, Killers sonic blades clearly showed effectiveness, he had to dodge Zoro's slash. No, the real damage did not only start once G5 started.

You say Luffy had Law in his corner but you won't point that Doffy had Trebol and Bellamy in his corner.
If we simply go by numbers then it should be 3v2 at the end of Dressrosa.
I'm not pointing it out because it's not my point and doesn't detract anything from my initial statement so why bother focusing on an inconsequential point?

So Doffy was in a 3v2 situation for a minute how does that change that Luffy and Law 2v1'd him? How does it change that without help Luffy still would have lost that fight if it was 1v1 from the start? It doesn't.


All most all the arcs are similar in nature. Yes SHs have to fight there individual fights and couple of them helped Luffy in his fight against Main villain. It happened in Arlong Park as shown. Happened in Alabasta Arc, Happened in Thriller Bark and even in Skypiea too
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And if Yamato joins then yes it happened in Wano too lol.
None of the SH's helped him fight Croc, Robin wasn't a SH at the time. As I mentioned earlier, if you can't do any damage to the opponent then you aren't really helping him beat the opponent are you? Nobody helped him fight Enel because no one else could touch him, same for Croc.

No one helped him finish Moria after he came out of Oars' body. He didn't have Nightmare Luffy mode then either.

Zoro and Sanji didn't help fight Arlong they helped free Luffy. Zoro tried to fight but his one attack is blocked then he's snatched up and his bandages are ripped off. You call that helping Luffy beat the final opponent?

Nami's not helping Luffy fight Enel in that panel she's having her own interaction with him she's not even fighting him because she's unable to.

What will you call a final fight?
Luffy fought with Crocodile on 3different occasion which is similar to Kaido fight. If you consider Luffy vs Crocodile (Temple fight) as last fight then you should consider G5 Luffy vs Kaido as final fight which is technically 1v1.
A final fight is the last go against an opponent that results in them staying down.

The difference between Croc and Kaido or Doffy's situation is the time between the start of the last fight and the finish of it. Doffy and Kaido both had moments in the fight that lasted a few minutes where Luffy was unable to continue but came back before the fight actually ends.
Croc had a fight with Luffy where he was unable to continue, Croc leaves then hours later they have a rematch.

The first fight with Kaido and the final fight are clearly separate as they take place days apart from each other. The rooftop fight to the G5 fight is all the same fight, that fight never ended Luffy just got enough time from his help to come back before it ended.

G5 Luffy fight didn't take place at a whole separate time from the final fight. The final fight with Kaido began during the raid. That's like saying the 2nd burst of G4 against Doffy was a 2nd fight but it wasn't it was all part of the one fight he had that started with him and Law 2v1 against Doffy. The final moments ended with Luffy 1v1 but the final fight was not a 1v1 fight from start to finish.
 
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HashiraMadara

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Brother man how are you still on this site?! I tried my log ins and they worked somehow.
Anyways on the topic, Katakuri is a 1 v 1 win.
Post automatically merged:

Kata damaged himself because of Flampe. Without Flampe intrusion the fight goes as it did.
 

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Yes there's a big difference between fighting people a few hours before another fight and fighting multiple people at once. Multiple attacks from multiple angles no rest between attackers do I need more reasons?
The whole raid thing ended in few hours. If i m not wrong most of the arcs fight part ends in couple of hours.
One can also argue that while Kaido was fighting Scabbards, Luffy was fighting beast pirates and Numbers. Multiple attacks are meaningless if those attacks does no real damage.


Also we both know none of those fights for Croc meant anything as none of those guys had haki to harm him. So you're trying to equate Croc fighting scrubs who can't harm him to Kaido fighting like 15 people at once. Those are not the same.


The Scabbards cut him multiple times, Killers sonic blades clearly showed effectiveness, he had to dodge Zoro's slash. No, the real damage did not only start once G5 started.
In part 1 Haki wasnt fleshed out that well. That's why we saw very limited use of Haki.
And even if they had haki like Scabbards do you think they would have defeated the main villain of the arc?

Since u brought the topic of haki then Scabbards did literally no damage to Kaido. He himself called them "Weak".
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Your point that Supernovas damaged him badly and he had to dodge some attacks is incorrect.
He wanted to test there strength. Which is why he let them hit him
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Also he didn't dodge Zoro's attack. Zoro missed.
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You wrote above something like multiple attacks, multiple angles but you forgot that BM was basically attacking supernovas with long distance lightning hits. Indirectly helping Kaido even though he doesn't wanted this.


Yes Flampe interfered first that doesn't change the fact Kata still handicapped himself in the fight which played a significant role in Luffy "winning" the fight. And I say "winning" because honestly Luffy won Kata over moreso than beat him.

And Doffy didn't just magically heal his organs back to 100% just by stitching them up that's not how organs work, stitches can come undone through excessive movements meaning he would be continually restitching his wound.
Again was it said in manga they lost there fights because of the wounds they received/ done to themselves?
Katakuri wanted a lvl playfield which is why he wounded himself. Heck after this we saw both of them going full conqueror haki knocking everyone out.
Doffy's wounds didn't open did they? He even said this after he got bored with Law's attacks
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Heck Doffy even went full awakening mode after sealing his wounds.
Also you are using real world logic into manga logic when you saying his stitches might have opened up. This makes no sense as in OPverse there exist magical drugs which can heal someone temporarily who has broken all his bones.

I'm not pointing it out because it's not my point and doesn't detract anything from my initial statement so why bother focusing on an inconsequential point?

So Doffy was in a 3v2 situation for a minute how does that change that Luffy and Law 2v1'd him? How does it change that without help Luffy still would have lost that fight if it was 1v1 from the start? It doesn't.
It was 3v2;
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You say the whole situation that Doffy had upper hand was for few minutes. But in reality Law and Luffy were in a situation where they were actually fighting multiple ppl.
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While Law was busy with Trebol and Doffy, Luffy was busy with Bellamy and Doffy's puppet.

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And yes it took more than few minutes for Luffy to figure out Bellamy situation while law was mutilated, shot by Doffy.
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None of the SH's helped him fight Croc, Robin wasn't a SH at the time. As I mentioned earlier, if you can't do any damage to the opponent then you aren't really helping him beat the opponent are you? Nobody helped him fight Enel because no one else could touch him, same for Croc.

No one helped him finish Moria after he came out of Oars' body. He didn't have Nightmare Luffy mode then either.

Zoro and Sanji didn't help fight Arlong they helped free Luffy. Zoro tried to fight but his one attack is blocked then he's snatched up and his bandages are ripped off. You call that helping Luffy beat the final opponent?

Nami's not helping Luffy fight Enel in that panel she's having her own interaction with him she's not even fighting him because she's unable to.
Providing food/meds/powerup, rescuing, stalling time all counts as helping Luffy.
In Dressrosa Luffy was carried by Gatz while fodders were stalling time for him. How is it any different than;
1)Nojiko saving Luffy
2)Sanji stopping the Ark
3)Robin buying some time for Luffy

Without there help Luffy might have drowned, Enel would have left with Nami and Luffy would have kept sleeping/died while Crocodile had left Alabasta.

Your argument that you will only consider those interruptions as important where someone did any damage to main character/main villain doesn't makes any sense.
What's 1v1? When 2 combatants fight each other without any help/interruption. Correct.

So was Dressrosa 1v1 ?
-when u clearly see Main villain sitting with 2 of his lackeys.

Mirror world was 1v1?
- when u got BM kids attacking n ppl bringing food for Katakuri.

Roof top fight was 1v1 ?
-when u see 2 of the Yonko staring n bragging that winner takes all.

I'm not denying he's had help during his fights before I'm saying helping Luffy isn't the same as fighting alongside him against the opponent.


A final fight is the last go against an opponent that results in them staying down.

The difference between Croc and Kaido or Doffy's situation is the time between the start of the last fight and the finish of it. Doffy and Kaido both had moments in the fight that lasted a few minutes where Luffy was unable to continue but came back before the fight actually ends.
Croc had a fight with Luffy where he was unable to continue, Croc leaves then hours later they have a rematch.

The first fight with Kaido and the final fight are clearly separate as they take place days apart from each other. The rooftop fight to the G5 fight is all the same fight, that fight never ended Luffy just got enough time from his help to come back before it ended.

G5 Luffy fight didn't take place at a whole separate time from the final fight. The final fight with Kaido began during the raid. That's like saying the 2nd burst of G4 against Doffy was a 2nd fight but it wasn't it was all part of the one fight he had that started with him and Law 2v1 against Doffy. The final moments ended with Luffy 1v1 but the final fight was not a 1v1 fight from start to finish.
Your final fight point is still not clear.

Rooftop fight itself can be broken into multiple segments;
1)Kaido Vs Scabbards
2)Supernovas Vs Yonkos
3)Kaido Vs G5 Luffy

And yes in between Luffy was unable to continue, got rescued, given food to heal while Kaido was busy with Yamato. And this trope as i showed happened almost in every arc.
When Luffy fights Main villain he looses or gets stuck in a situation where he needs help. After which oda shows what other SHs doing.

Alabasta arc is the best example as the entire fight sequence happened in a similar note.
Luffy fought the main villain and lost. Asked for meat.
Then came back flying and lost again.
3rd time's the charm and he won the fight.

So yes if you don't want to consider things that happened in between like Crocodile was fighting Guards, killing Vivi's friend, killing Robin then you should not considered Scabbards or Yamato stalling time for Luffy and directly consider G5 Luffy vs Kaido as 1v1.
 
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chopstickchakra

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The whole raid thing ended in few hours. If i m not wrong most of the arcs fight part ends in couple of hours.
One can also argue that while Kaido was fighting Scabbards, Luffy was fighting beast pirates and Numbers. Multiple attacks are meaningless if those attacks does no real damage.
If those attacks "did no real damage" then all the examples you tried to use where there was literally no damage done don't count either.

Do you realize you're contradicting your initial point here? First you said Luffy always receives help against the main villain and used examples where people didn't actually do any damage as evidence he had help but now you say the help he's received in recent fights isn't contributing to beating the enemy.

So either the help does contribute to the victory or it doesn't. You can't say it did then but doesn't now that makes no sense especially when comparatively he's receiving substantially more help in recent fights then ever before.


In part 1 Haki wasnt fleshed out that well. That's why we saw very limited use of Haki.
And even if they had haki like Scabbards do you think they would have defeated the main villain of the arc?
They weren't involved in the final fight the same way the scabbards were.

Since u brought the topic of haki then Scabbards did literally no damage to Kaido. He himself called them "Weak".
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Your point that Supernovas damaged him badly and he had to dodge some attacks is incorrect.
He wanted to test there strength. Which is why he let them hit him
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Also he didn't dodge Zoro's attack. Zoro missed.
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Zoro missed because Kaido dodged. They were in a straight line with each other and BM told Kaido to look out. In what world do you think it makes sense he just missed a giant dragon right in front of him?

You wrote above something like multiple attacks, multiple angles but you forgot that BM was basically attacking supernovas with long distance lightning hits. Indirectly helping Kaido even though he doesn't wanted this.
Again what does this have to do with Luffy not winning in a pure 1v1? Why do you continue to bring up his opponents also face not 1v1 situations? That has no bearing on the topic of this discussion "Luffy having help"


Again was it said in manga they lost there fights because of the wounds they received/ done to themselves?
Katakuri wanted a lvl playfield which is why he wounded himself. Heck after this we saw both of them going full conqueror haki knocking everyone out.
Before Flampe, look at the damage Luffy was able to do to Kata and the damage Kata did to Luffy.

Kata was clearly ahead at that point. Then Flampe interferes and Kata creates a significant wound to himself. Then Luffy is able to put him down. We can guage by the level of damage up to that point Luffy wouldn't have done enpugh damage to put Kata down before Kata did it to him.
That wound, regardless of why he did it, is the main reason Luffy won that fight.

Doffy's wounds didn't open did they? He even said this after he got bored with Law's attacks
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Heck Doffy even went full awakening mode after sealing his wounds.
Also you are using real world logic into manga logic when you saying his stitches might have opened up. This makes no sense as in OPverse there exist magical drugs which can heal someone temporarily who has broken all his bones.
We don't know what they did after he stitched them that's part of my point. You're presenting it as fact that the damage from gamma knife was completely negated once his stitched his organ back together.


It was 3v2;
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You say the whole situation that Doffy had upper hand was for few minutes. But in reality Law and Luffy were in a situation where they were actually fighting multiple ppl.
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While Law was busy with Trebol and Doffy, Luffy was busy with Bellamy and Doffy's puppet.

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And yes it took more than few minutes for Luffy to figure out Bellamy situation while law was mutilated, shot by Doffy.
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3V2 doesn't change that it's not a 1v1 what about this are you not getting? You're literally proving my point Luffy didn't fight Doffy 1v1.

And no it didn't take more than a few minutes. Time moves a lot faster in OP than I think a lot of people realize. You realize excluding the time skip, the crews entire journey so far has only been like a year or so tops.

When Doffy started reducing birdcage in chapter 780 there was only an hour left before it destroyed everything. Birdcage went up in chapter 745 Luffy and Law reach Doffy at chapter 758 and Bellamy goes down at chapter 779.

Do you think it took more than an hour from the time Birdcage went up to when Luffy ko'd Bellamy on the plateau?

Providing food/meds/powerup, rescuing, stalling time all counts as helping Luffy.
In Dressrosa Luffy was carried by Gatz while fodders were stalling time for him. How is it any different than;
1)Nojiko saving Luffy
2)Sanji stopping the Ark
3)Robin buying some time for Luffy
It's not different, it's also not what I'm talking about when I say help FIGHTING the opponent. Sanji stopping the arc isn't him helping beat Enel in a fight it's him helping Luffy focus on beating Enel in a fight. Do you see the difference between the two?

Without there help Luffy might have drowned, Enel would have left with Nami and Luffy would have kept sleeping/died while Crocodile had left Alabasta.

Your argument that you will only consider those interruptions as important where someone did any damage to main character/main villain doesn't makes any sense.
It makes perfect sense when you understand my point is Luffy receiving help physically fighting the enemy. My whole point was Luffy is now having people help in the fight aspect of a fight not that he's never received support during a fight. A boxer's cutman doesn't help him beat his opponent he supports him so he's able beat his opponent.

What's 1v1? When 2 combatants fight each other without any help/interruption. Correct.

So was Dressrosa 1v1 ?
-when u clearly see Main villain sitting with 2 of his lackeys.
I never said it was! From the start I've been saying it wasn't a 1v1. Are you daft?

Mirror world was 1v1?
- when u got BM kids attacking n ppl bringing food for Katakuri.

Roof top fight was 1v1 ?
-when u see 2 of the Yonko staring n bragging that winner takes all.
No none of these fights were 1v1 I've said that from the start. Luffy hasn't had a real 1v1 since Caesar.

And people bringing Kata food didn't impact the fight, Kata believed it was over at that point it had no correlation to his fight. Flampe did.


Your final fight point is still not clear.

Rooftop fight itself can be broken into multiple segments;
1)Kaido Vs Scabbards
2)Supernovas Vs Yonkos
3)Kaido Vs G5 Luffy
No all the arc ending fights have had clear start and end points.

The final fight of Wano started on the roof and ends when Luffy finishes Kaido. That's the end of the fight which was a giant melee and only a 1v1 instance in the final moments after BM had been taken out and everyone sat back.

And yes in between Luffy was unable to continue, got rescued, given food to heal while Kaido was busy with Yamato. And this trope as i showed happened almost in every arc.
When Luffy fights Main villain he looses or gets stuck in a situation where he needs help. After which oda shows what other SHs doing.
Again as I've stated numerous times, helping Luffy is not the same as fighting alongside Luffy to beat the opponent. Nanjiko helped Luffy she didn't help beat Arlong. The concepts are not equal.

Alabasta arc is the best example as the entire fight sequence happened in a similar note.
Luffy fought the main villain and lost. Asked for meat.
Then came back flying and lost again.
3rd time's the charm and he won the fight.
The difference is when Luffy lost to Croc then ate meat and rechallenged him that that challenge came after Croc had already stopped fighting. I.E. the fight ended. In Kaido's situation because he was fighting more than one person at the time, unlike Croc, the fight did not come to an end just because one of the participants couldn't continue for a minute.

If Luffy was on his own in that fight he would have needed to been saved as he was and then Kaido would have left as he did the other times he beat Luffy. If that happened then Luffy came back G5 and beat Kaido on his own he would have 1v1'd him but that's not how it happened.

So yes if you don't want to consider things that happened in between like Crocodile was fighting Guards, killing Vivi's friend, killing Robin then you should not considered Scabbards or Yamato stalling time for Luffy and directly consider G5 Luffy vs Kaido as 1v1.
It's all the same fight. There's no stopping of the fight at any point from when the Scabbards start til Luffy finishes it. That's literally the exact opposite of the Croc situation. There were gaps of hours between all of those incidents with Croc and he had time inbetween each instance.

Also Yamato and Luffy fought together at the same time during that fight did you forget the combp attack in 1025. Plus Law, Kid, Killer and Zoro a helped him at other points too.

I'll make it real simple. You like posting scans so show me a scan of an arc ending final fight where Luffy is fighting the main villain alongside another person before the Doffy fight.
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Katakuri wounding himself cancelled out the advantage that Flampe’s interference did, so that’s a valid 1v1 W
I can see the argument for that but if we look at the damage received by each from the other up until that point Luffy was much more damaged.

After that point Luffy was able to do enough damage to win. Seems to me based on how the fight had been progressing without that wound Luffy wouldn't have put him down.

It may be a stretch but if we had to try and quantify an amount I would say that wound was as or slightly more damaging than what Luffy had done to Kata up to that point.
 
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chopstickchakra

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Brother man how are you still on this site?! I tried my log ins and they worked somehow.
Anyways on the topic, Katakuri is a 1 v 1 win.
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Kata damaged himself because of Flampe. Without Flampe intrusion the fight goes as it did.
Idk without Flampe Kata doesn't injure himself. And with no injury Kata seemed like he would win the fight.

We can agree the damage Flampe did to Luffy was smaller than what Kata did to himself yeah?
 

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If those attacks "did no real damage" then all the examples you tried to use where there was literally no damage done don't count either.

Do you realize you're contradicting your initial point here? First you said Luffy always receives help against the main villain and used examples where people didn't actually do any damage as evidence he had help but now you say the help he's received in recent fights isn't contributing to beating the enemy.

So either the help does contribute to the victory or it doesn't. You can't say it did then but doesn't now that makes no sense especially when comparatively he's receiving substantially more help in recent fights then ever before.




They weren't involved in the final fight the same way the scabbards were.



Zoro missed because Kaido dodged. They were in a straight line with each other and BM told Kaido to look out. In what world do you think it makes sense he just missed a giant dragon right in front of him?



Again what does this have to do with Luffy not winning in a pure 1v1? Why do you continue to bring up his opponents also face not 1v1 situations? That has no bearing on the topic of this discussion "Luffy having help"




Before Flampe, look at the damage Luffy was able to do to Kata and the damage Kata did to Luffy.

Kata was clearly ahead at that point. Then Flampe interferes and Kata creates a significant wound to himself. Then Luffy is able to put him down. We can guage by the level of damage up to that point Luffy wouldn't have done enpugh damage to put Kata down before Kata did it to him.
That wound, regardless of why he did it, is the main reason Luffy won that fight.



We don't know what they did after he stitched them that's part of my point. You're presenting it as fact that the damage from gamma knife was completely negated once his stitched his organ back together.




3V2 doesn't change that it's not a 1v1 what about this are you not getting? You're literally proving my point Luffy didn't fight Doffy 1v1.

And no it didn't take more than a few minutes. Time moves a lot faster in OP than I think a lot of people realize. You realize excluding the time skip, the crews entire journey so far has only been like a year or so tops.

When Doffy started reducing birdcage in chapter 780 there was only an hour left before it destroyed everything. Birdcage went up in chapter 745 Luffy and Law reach Doffy at chapter 758 and Bellamy goes down at chapter 779.

Do you think it took more than an hour from the time Birdcage went up to when Luffy ko'd Bellamy on the plateau?



It's not different, it's also not what I'm talking about when I say help FIGHTING the opponent. Sanji stopping the arc isn't him helping beat Enel in a fight it's him helping Luffy focus on beating Enel in a fight. Do you see the difference between the two?



It makes perfect sense when you understand my point is Luffy receiving help physically fighting the enemy. My whole point was Luffy is now having people help in the fight aspect of a fight not that he's never received support during a fight. A boxer's cutman doesn't help him beat his opponent he supports him so he's able beat his opponent.



I never said it was! From the start I've been saying it wasn't a 1v1. Are you daft?



No none of these fights were 1v1 I've said that from the start. Luffy hasn't had a real 1v1 since Caesar.

And people bringing Kata food didn't impact the fight, Kata believed it was over at that point it had no correlation to his fight. Flampe did.




No all the arc ending fights have had clear start and end points.

The final fight of Wano started on the roof and ends when Luffy finishes Kaido. That's the end of the fight which was a giant melee and only a 1v1 instance in the final moments after BM had been taken out and everyone sat back.



Again as I've stated numerous times, helping Luffy is not the same as fighting alongside Luffy to beat the opponent. Nanjiko helped Luffy she didn't help beat Arlong. The concepts are not equal.



The difference is when Luffy lost to Croc then ate meat and rechallenged him that that challenge came after Croc had already stopped fighting. I.E. the fight ended. In Kaido's situation because he was fighting more than one person at the time, unlike Croc, the fight did not come to an end just because one of the participants couldn't continue for a minute.

If Luffy was on his own in that fight he would have needed to been saved as he was and then Kaido would have left as he did the other times he beat Luffy. If that happened then Luffy came back G5 and beat Kaido on his own he would have 1v1'd him but that's not how it happened.



It's all the same fight. There's no stopping of the fight at any point from when the Scabbards start til Luffy finishes it. That's literally the exact opposite of the Croc situation. There were gaps of hours between all of those incidents with Croc and he had time inbetween each instance.

Also Yamato and Luffy fought together at the same time during that fight did you forget the combp attack in 1025. Plus Law, Kid, Killer and Zoro a helped him at other points too.

I'll make it real simple. You like posting scans so show me a scan of an arc ending final fight where Luffy is fighting the main villain alongside another person before the Doffy fight.
This will be the final reply since you have drawn a very vague line on what's called a 1v1 and what's not?

In your opinion Rooftop fight is a final fight? Where i think you believe Luffy got help from Zoro, Yamato and other Supernovas to tackle Yonkos which is why you consider this as;
Kaido took whole team to be put down
When same thing happened in Thriller Bark you skip the whole Oars part and focus only on Inflated Moria and Luffy part justifying it as 1v1.

You say Luffy gets help from his team fighting final opponents after PH arc. But then you point that certain parts should not be considered as with the case of Sanji and Zoro vs Arlong.

Doffy's case was pretty evident that he sealed his wounds with his DF. He even mocked Law after that yet you believe his wounds would have opened at any point of the fight which never happened.
You say Kata inflicting wound on himself was the deciding factor but after that we saw he went full Conqueror. He acknowledged Luffy as his equal and continued his barrage of attacks on Luffy. At the same time he was taking hits from Luffy. There fight was basically who will go down first and plot Armor helped Luffy win that fight.
At no point it was stated that wound affected Katakuri.

Lastly;
I'll make it real simple. You like posting scans so show me a scan of an arc ending final fight where Luffy is fighting the main villain alongside another person before the Doffy fight.
Go read the chapter 480. Luffy is fighting with his whole crew, happened before Dressrosa and yes the Main villain was Ko'd because of Zoro and Luffy's attack in previous chapter.
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chopstickchakra

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This will be the final reply since you have drawn a very vague line on what's called a 1v1 and what's not?

In your opinion Rooftop fight is a final fight? Where i think you believe Luffy got help from Zoro, Yamato and other Supernovas to tackle Yonkos which is why you consider this as;


When same thing happened in Thriller Bark you skip the whole Oars part and focus only on Inflated Moria and Luffy part justifying it as 1v1.

You say Luffy gets help from his team fighting final opponents after PH arc. But then you point that certain parts should not be considered as with the case of Sanji and Zoro vs Arlong.

Doffy's case was pretty evident that he sealed his wounds with his DF. He even mocked Law after that yet you believe his wounds would have opened at any point of the fight which never happened.
You say Kata inflicting wound on himself was the deciding factor but after that we saw he went full Conqueror. He acknowledged Luffy as his equal and continued his barrage of attacks on Luffy. At the same time he was taking hits from Luffy. There fight was basically who will go down first and plot Armor helped Luffy win that fight.
At no point it was stated that wound affected Katakuri.

Lastly;

Go read the chapter 480. Luffy is fighting with his whole crew, happened before Dressrosa and yes the Main villain was Ko'd because of Zoro and Luffy's attack in previous chapter.
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This is a scan of them beating Oars not them fighting and beating Moria.

Also remember how you said when Luffy got ko'd against Kaido but woke up a few minutes later that made it a new fight? Well Moria comes back in a few minutes so wouldn't that make it a new fight where Luffy fughts him 1v1? You can't pick and choose when you apply your definitions.

If you think there's a vague line between what's a 1v1 and what's not then you're right we're done here. I'm not gonna waste anymore time woth someone who doesn't understand what a 1 on 1 fight is.

What do you mean imo? The rooftop fight is the final fight against Kaido. That's not my opinion it's what happened in the manga.

Because the crew didn't foght Moria the crew fought Oars. On Wano the group ALL fought Kaido directly. Do I need to hold your hand through this? None of the SH's fought against Moria alongside Luffy they only fought Oars.
If Moria had been put fighting alongside Oars we vould say it's similar but Oars was just a tool being used by Moria by the final fight. Remember how Moria attached his shadow to take control of Oars?

You can look at all the damage prior to the wound and see Luffy's attacks didn't do as much damage as the stab.
 

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This is a scan of them beating Oars not them fighting and beating Moria.

Because the crew didn't foght Moria the crew fought Oars. On Wano the group ALL fought Kaido directly. Do I need to hold your hand through this? None of the SH's fought against Moria alongside Luffy they only fought Oars.
If Moria had been put fighting alongside Oars we vould say it's similar but Oars was just a tool being used by Moria by the final fight. Remember how Moria attached his shadow to take control of Oars?

What do you mean imo? The rooftop fight is the final fight against Kaido. That's not my opinion it's what happened in the manga.
He joined the fight the moment he went inside Oars. He himself said that;
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He told clearly if they wanna reach him they had to beat Oars. Which Luffy n Co.did and they knocked Moria in that process.


You wanted scans na where Luffy was fighting the main villain with another character.

Here's a list of that which happened Pre TS.
Arc- Romance Dawn Ch 6
Main Villian Morgan
Lost bcus Zoro Knocked him while Luffy saved Coby
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Arc- Orange Town Ch 20
Main villain Buggy
Lost bcus he was distracted by Nami and later tied by Nami while Luffy fought with him
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Arc- Baratie Ch 66
Main Villain Don Krieg
Lost bcus Gin took him out at last second
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Arc Loguetown Ch 99-100
Main Villain Buggy and Smoker
Rescued by Dragon
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Whisky Peak Ch 112 & Little Garden Ch 126
Main Villain Baroque work Agents
Taken out by Luffy n Zoro
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Post-Long Ring Long Land Arc Ch 320
Main Villain Aokiji
Luffy decided to stop Aokiji, lost and rescued by Zoro n Sanji
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I hope these scans are enough for you to accept that in Part 1 SHs n other ppl were regularly fighting with Luffy in defeating/escaping villains of the said arc.
 
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