Haku vs Konan

[Beans2]

Lord. Stop with the idiot logic, and stop calling Haku a she. Getting outmaneuvered by Sasuke in a close combat

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(barely might I add) does NOT = "Haku can't dodge Konan's papers" because that says nothing about his foot speed. You either have to concede this argument or believe that MS Sasuke > V1 Ay because he outmaneuvered him and landed an attack for the exact same reason and unfortunately there is no in between. My favorite part is you choose to ignore Haku's Part 2 feats which are way better.

-Shunshining to an ice mirror above an airborne Sai before he can react [

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] or even notice Haku's presence.
-Intercepting Raikiri before MS Kakashi even notices Haku [

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].

Jiraiya didn't even use shunshin to evade those papers. He literally did a barrel roll, casually evaded the papers while weaving hand signs to counterattack then blitzed her with oil bullet. Dem paper speed feats. Replace that with Haku using top shunshin in the same situation and he casually dodges given his War Arc feats.

Sasuke needed 2T sharingan just to track Haku's movements between ice mirrors. Konan can't even track Haku when he shunshins between mirrors since she's not as visually perceptive as Sasuke, much less land an attack on him, especially when you take into consideration that Haku's image will be mirrored all over the place and Konan will have no clue which one is the real one.

Haku got by part 1 Sasuke in the speed department, that's the end of all speed related debates. That Sasuke couldn't even react to Base Lee in Part 1 at a much later point, this is literally a no comparison discussion.
@bold the reaction feats which allow her to avoid something that doesn't exist.

Except that's completely wrong, and Sasuke having faster taijutsu than Haku doesn't translate to "he can't avoid papers." Lee has literally nothing to do with anything at all. The bold is a nice way of dodging my question.

-Um, what? Haku has a 2 in stamina, gtfo here. She's continuously wasting chakra maintaining her ice whereas Konan can simply use that small amount of paper for a much, much longer time since she could manipulate 600 Billion at one go for 10 minutes straight.

Gtfo here if you think Konan detonated 600 billion paper bombs in one go. She blew up some of them, and it started a chain reaction much like how GKF does. But alright, I'll agree Konan has better chakra reserves than Haku though that hardly matters in a fight that won't be drawn out.

Because she's slower then part 1 Sasuke, stop using this retarded logic of Jiraiya dodged so Haku can dodge. It makes NO sense given Jiraiya is portrayed to be above Kisame's tier. Oh lord you don't know what the hell you are talking about smfh. If Haku is in the damned ice shield then she can't possibly be using her Ice Mirror's to somehow project her image, because.. SHE'S iN THE SHIELD. Not to mention, Konan engulfs the Ice Shield Haku creates, as I already stated 3 times now. It doesn't matter WHERE Haku exits, unless it's underground Haku gets CAUGHT.

I pray that this is the last time you say Haku is slower than Part 1 Sasuke to prove your point that Haku can't dodge paper, because you'd look really stupid if you do it again. Again. Jiraiya did not use shunshin to evade. He did a barrel roll. Given Haku's better speed feats (which you've conveniently decided to ignore thus far) he will have no trouble evading.

Yeah. I've gotten that Konan engulfs the ice shield in paper buddy. What you somehow haven't put through your thick skull is that Haku will thaw the ice shield then shunshin to an ice mirror above Konan, where he'll proceed to freeze Konan in an ice cube like the squirrel from Ice Age.

You're ignoring the fact that:

-Haku can have ice mirrors inside the ice shield or use the mirrors to shield herself.
-Haku can leave an opening in the ice shield to exit before Konan engulfs the whole thing in paper. The smoke from paper bomb explosions provides perfect cover for her.
-Konan can't even track Haku's movements between mirrors, much less hit Haku with an attack.

It's official, you don't even read manga from right to left OR EVEN from left to right. You read it from bottom to top. Now try and read it from top to bottom, right to left

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. He is trying to warp Konan, and then, on the BOTTOM panel he notices the explosive tags. At that point he's already trying to warp Konan, so he can't instantly go ghost form like you are trying to suggest. Thus he warped the explosion itself instead of dying.

I can literally just repeat what I said: He saw that they were paper bombs before they exploded, but decided to continue warping instead of cancelling the warp and going ghost. Literally impossible to challenge this because the manga showed that Obito noticed the bombs before they went off, and don't put words in my mouth because I didn't say he could instantly go ghost, I said he could have canceled the warp first.

1. He tries to warp himself. 2. Konan reacts. 3. She raises her hand. 4. She manipulates the paper bombs and attaches them to Obito, and they are at least 1 meter from him. Uh, yes, they are pretty damn fast if they can still accomplish this after all the things which preceded it.

@bold, the only possibility for this is if Haku is right next to Konan, otherwise she won't be forming that Ice block anywhere near the term 'quickly'.

God, the wank is too real.

1. Obito is literally surrounded by paper bombs all around him, they are not even a meter away.
2. Obito is remaining stationary while attempting to warp. Haku is traveling faster than Konan can even track with her eyes, let alone react and follow him with her paper. Unless you are saying Jiraiya's barrel roll is faster than Obito warping, it's obvious that warping can't be compared to dodging. Stop acting like this is some incredible speed feat, especially when Obito's warp speed isn't even that fast.
3. I don't even know what point you're trying to prove with this.

 

[Curse Mark]

@the paper bombs being a meter away.
No. U tried tho

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[Icelerate]

When was this stated or implied? Haku being able to freeze solid objects in the way you suggest would have come in useful when dealing with Sai and everyone else on his birds, as he could have simply froze them and ambushed them while they fell out the sky. Or against Sai's explosive tags. Or even on the scrolls the sealing team was using.

Moisture is everywhere and that is what Haku uses to create ice out of thin air. I don't see the difference between moisture surrounding a solid object and moisture not surrounding a solid object. Haku possessing a useful ability that could have been used but wasn't doesn't mean he can't use it.

Why would body heat stop Haku from performing this supposed ability? His mirrors were cold enough to resist Katons. He created an ice dome that withstood paper tag explosions.

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has appeared when he uses his ability. If Haku can create ice that cold, the more likely reason why he hasn't frozen anyone is because he simply can't use his Kekkei Genkai in that manner.

Haku's ice withstood heat after it was already turned into ice, not while he was still turning the moisture into ice. Also another factor in why Haku doesn't just freeze his opponents is because they move around so as the moisture is being condensed, they can simply move to another location.

Even if I were to agree that this is the reason why Haku can't freeze people, it still doesn't mean he can freeze Konan. He has never used ice jutsu on a scale that would encapsulate Konan and all of her paper. More importantly, he has never shown the ability to do this across a wide range. So even if I assume that he can, the mere fact that his range with freezing anything does not cover all of Konan and the range from which she usually fights implies that she can easily substitute with a paper clone and render his attempts useless.

I agree Konan wins this with mid difficulty for various reasons such as the ones you listed.

 

[Apêx1]

@the paper bombs being a meter away.
No. U tried tho

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The ones which attached to the left side of his back here

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are CLEARLY a meter away+ at the moment preceding them being attached to Obito. nicetryyourselftho

 

[Lord Tywin]

what makes anyone think Haku can freeze other people when he hasn't done so? Jiraya>>>>Haku though in anything

 

[Curse Mark]

The ones which attached to the left side of his back here

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are CLEARLY a meter away+ at the moment preceding them being attached to Obito. nicetryyourselftho

And you think they spawned there? They came from the wall. I see what you're saying though. They get a headstart.

 

[Apêx1]

what makes anyone think Haku can freeze other people when he hasn't done so? Jiraya>>>>Haku though in anything

She controls where her mirrors appear and thus should be able to freeze the moisture around the near proximity of a person.

And you think they spawned there? They came from the wall. I see what you're saying though. They get a headstart.

I thought you were saying that it was less then a mater lmao. Konan simply had papers around a meter distance from him the whole time, they weren't moving until Obito tried to warp. Konan could react to the warp, raise her hand and then have her papers reach and even explode all before Obito could warp away. That's pretty insane speed given Obito's Kamui is insanely fast.

 

[Zexion~]

Again ice mirrors is a specific jutsu smh.

Spawning a mirror wherever he pleases =/= outright freezing someone.

As the feat you're trying to use shows control over a thing layer of ice ONLY. So even if we were to assume that, the opponent could break out with ease.

 

[Apêx1]

Again ice mirrors is a specific jutsu smh.

Spawning a mirror wherever he pleases =/= outright freezing someone.

As the feat you're trying to use shows control over a thing layer of ice ONLY. So even if we were to assume that, the opponent could break out with ease.

Only because it has a name doesn't mean it works by summoning the jutsu or anything like that. She creates an Ice Mirror anywhere she pleases by freezing the moisture at that particular location, that's what she does in the simplest of terms. If she can freeze the moisture in that location, and she's frozen the moisture around her to create a defence, then there's really nothing indicating any reason as to why she can't do it against a person from afar. The time it takes to do might be slower, but the fact that this is a possibility for her can't be ruled out based solely on how her jutsu works.

 

[Lord Tywin]

She controls where her mirrors appear and thus should be able to freeze the moisture around the near proximity of a person.

She's only been shown to use her KKG as means of transportation, while relying on her needles to attack. What you're saying is not only fanfic, but completely out of character for Haku to do

 

[BLAZE]

Haku is He :|

 

[Apêx1]

She's only been shown to use her KKG as means of transportation, while relying on her needles to attack. What you're saying is not only fanfic, but completely out of character for Haku to do

I'm not arguing for Haku though. And she used her KKG to free`e the moisture around her to defend against Sai's attacks, so.. And it's out of character for as long as her other moves are viable, but since needles aren't viable versus a paper body we can use an implicative ability of hers as IC/OC are irrelevant at that stage.

 

[Lord Tywin]

I'm not arguing for Haku though. And she used her KKG to free`e the moisture around her to defend against Sai's attacks, so.. And it's out of character for as long as her other moves are viable, but since needles aren't viable versus a paper body we can use an implicative ability of hers as IC/OC are irrelevant at that stage.

Yeah she also uses it to defend herself, but I don't see her using it in a battle. She's never shown to do it. So, out of character.

 

[Apêx1]

Yeah she also uses it to defend herself, but I don't see her using it in a battle. She's never shown to do it. So, out of character.

Again, I'm agreeing that she won't do it in battle until there comes a point in which she realises her needles (which is the only battle style she's shown) are useless. At that point, using more needles because it's "IC" makes no sense, so using OC abilities that are implicative is applicable.

 

[Lord Tywin]

Again, I'm agreeing that she won't do it in battle until there comes a point in which she realises her needles (which is the only battle style she's shown) are useless. At that point, using more needles because it's "IC" makes no sense, so using OC abilities that are implicative is applicable.

Lets say she does. What's next? She has to keep up the ice, which eats up on her chakra, and she has no way of harming Konan.

 

[Curse Mark]

She controls where her mirrors appear and thus should be able to freeze the moisture around the near proximity of a person.



I thought you were saying that it was less then a mater lmao. Konan simply had papers around a meter distance from him the whole time, they weren't moving until Obito tried to warp. Konan could react to the warp, raise her hand and then have her papers reach and even explode all before Obito could warp away. That's pretty insane speed given Obito's Kamui is insanely fast.

BRUH his kamui out sped oonoki's jinton.

 

[Apêx1]

Lets say she does. What's next? She has to keep up the ice, which eats up on her chakra, and she has no way of harming Konan.

True, as I said before, I'm not arguing that Haku has the slightest chance of winning. This should be obvious since KN0 from chapter 20 Naruto could blitz Haku but KN0 Pain Arc Naruto with SM was getting intercepted by Konan. And anyways, I'm pretty sure that Konan can sit there since paper doesn't 'freeze'.

BRUH his kamui out sped oonoki's jinton.

Yep, it's as fast as Kakashi's Kamui as well since it doubled the speed of teleportation when Madara tried to hit them with Gudo Dama. Konan's paper is extremely fast.

 

[Lord Tywin]

True, as I said before, I'm not arguing that Haku has the slightest chance of winning. This should be obvious since KN0 from chapter 20 Naruto could blitz Haku but KN0 Pain Arc Naruto with SM was getting intercepted by Konan. And anyways, I'm pretty sure that Konan can sit there since paper doesn't 'freeze'.



Yep, it's as fast as Kakashi's Kamui as well since it doubled the speed of teleportation when Madara tried to hit them with Gudo Dama. Konan's paper is extremely fast.

ok then

 

[Curse Mark]

True, as I said before, I'm not arguing that Haku has the slightest chance of winning. This should be obvious since KN0 from chapter 20 Naruto could blitz Haku but KN0 Pain Arc Naruto with SM was getting intercepted by Konan. And anyways, I'm pretty sure that Konan can sit there since paper doesn't 'freeze'.



Yep, it's as fast as Kakashi's Kamui as well since it doubled the speed of teleportation when Madara tried to hit them with Gudo Dama. Konan's paper is extremely fast.

You're saying its as fast as kakashi's because his and obitos are the same speed? I think the fact that he had sasuke literally in the jinton and obito saved him is more impressive.

 

[Apêx1]

You're saying its as fast as kakashi's because his and obitos are the same speed? I think the fact that he had sasuke literally in the jinton and obito saved him is more impressive.

Kakashi's Kamui speed applies to Obito's is what I'm saying. But yea, probably nothing comparable to the Jinton escape in which he appeared and disappeared all before the Jinton atomised Sasuke.