[VS] Haku vs Kimimaro
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Haizaki
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CM2 slows him down but gives him better durability and physical strength....That means Haku stands no chance of hurting him. He can even use CM1 if it becomes a case of speed but Haku is not match.
No not at all...You can't use this as a legit feat of Kimmimaro not being able to react. Why? It Only has feats of blitzing Base Naruto and I think Sasuke in some cases that I can't remember. The Water marks won't really say much when the person at hand can react to much faster movements.
Naruto reacted to it from above
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Sasuke did as well. Yet Kimmimaro cannot? In his CM1 state he becomes much faster than these 2 and has better reflexes than them. There's no way he can't react to it especially from what Lee and Naruto said.
Multiple times Haku emphasized on Sasuke being able to dodge her Ice Mirror attacks
Base form :
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Inexperienced Sasuke being able to follow him without the use of his Shanringan
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Sasuke who just awakened his Sharingan:
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It was so bad that Haku had to go for Naruto in order to draw 2T Sasuke to him(Also speaks about a head on attack)
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Yet we have the fact that Sasuke who could follow Haku with his 2T couldn't follow Rock Lee in his Base:
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There should be no talk about how an experienced Healthy Kimmimaro can't react to Haku's crystal mirror which can't be held for a long period of time:
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There's the fact that Kimmi's durability would be affected by nothing offered while in the crystal mirror. You need to have proof that she can use another Jutsu while having this Ice Mirror active. Considering how it consumes a large amount of Chakra.
@Haku reacting to Gai and Lee doesn't mean she'll be able to react to every single attack especially considering it was Leaf whirlwind.
We see Sasuke without his Sharingan being able to react to the same technique used by Gai and Lee:
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then we see him in a much better state failing to react to a different one
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There also the fact that the 10% clones of a 30% Kisame reacted to Lee, Neji and Ten Ten
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but then got destroyed by Neji seeing as he's a CQC specialist
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who still doesn't have a 5 in the art like Kimmi does.Point being you can't use the fact that Haku reacted to Gai/Lee's attack (which supposedly got reacted to by Sasuke as well) to say he's never going to be hit by Kimmimaro who is with no argument superior. Hebi Sasuke /Deidara is a good example since Sasuke could outright blitz him but he managed to react.
How would it be useless? She can't sense him, so she can't even attack him. There 10,000 bones...Also, who says Haku would pull that Mirror right off the bat?
It doesn't matter anyways since there's no proof she can use another Jutsu asides physical attacks that don't utilize chakra while holding her Mirror which consumes a lot. Hence she can't do damage...Especially when Sai and his crew survived it
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Then there's the fact her Ice cube only covers her from the top like shown in the Manga...Kimi would just use Sawari no Mai from undergound.
Explosive tag isn't a good feat when talking of Kimmi's bones being able to break through them:
The little ones were strong enough to do this to chakra infused blades:
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Something that was equal to Sasuke Raiton sword when they clashed
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Gyuki took a full Bijuudama and his tentacles were caught as well
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and was still aliveYet Sasuke's Raiton cut through his tentacle
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...Of course Sasuke Raiton Sword piercing power>>Sasuke's Raiton piercing power. Yet Sasuke's Raiton sword when clashed with Mifune's chakra enhanced sword was equal to it as I showed before while Kimmimaro's bones left the chakra enhanced sword almost broken as it carved through it.
Why would Ice Cubes be much more durable enough? Because of explosive tags? When Gaara's is superior without a doubt. Then there's Kimmi being able to break through that.
Like I said, that doesn't give him feats of not being able to react because of barely reacting to Gai and Lee...Hebi Sasuke had the speed to completely blitz Deidara who reacted to him the first time? Plus there's the fact that both Gai and Lee used a combination attack which they landed at the same time. We both know Gai is faster and Sasuke reacted to that very same attack from Lee despite him being able to blitz Sasuke at that point.
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I didn't get this entire point but I know Kimmi couldn't move an inch even though he released his technique
I can't really believe Kimmi can't break out of this Ice with Sawarabi no Mai...The Ice is nothing because Gaara's sand is for sure more durable. I've shown Kimmi being able to break through and pierce through. The Ice is nothing to him.
No this doesn't matter at all..In his Base form, he manhandled Gaara with probably fewer
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,
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and even fewer than this previously and Gaara was regarded to be very fast in a weaker form by Sasuke
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Yet Kimmi wasn't even touched by a superior form? It doesn't matter whether it splits chakra since physical attributes normally don't require the use of Chakra...Naruto was going all out to save Sasuke, not sure why he'd be doing what's not helpful to him or what's supposedly weaker.
I don't think splitting up chakra has to do with anything physical in this case...Whether speed/reflexes/attacks. Especially when Naruto's
reserves probably make any chakra split almost insignificant.
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They couldn't touch him despite their efforts...Naruto said "Despite all that, not one single hit was made" . One doesn't begin to think that he himself alone would do any better.
Mindless or no mindless, he knew how to control the fox power...Nothing special asides physical attributes that were mostly shown when he defeated Haku. Same when he had a mind.
Apêx1
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Shit son that's a long ass post.
Anyways, I never said Haku could even scratch Kimimaro. I am saying she goes for the eyes, which CM2 won't enhance in any way. Slowing down=more vulnerable to attacks to his eyes.
How do water marks have a dependance on the opponent? They are a constant variable which will never change. Sasuke gets smashed 100 times here
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while Sasuke doesn't move an inch down or up based on all the movement marks of Haku. The water marks are merely to show how fast he is making 14 movements before a water droplet can move.Again, Haku gets slower the more he uses mirrors. I never suggested she can win this late with her mirrors. I am saying Haku hits him in the eye from her first few Mirror hops. And again, please stop bringing in Lee here. I already showed you her feat against part 2 Gai.
Good points about the needles missing the vital parts. I'll concede on that then to an extent, but still believe using her mirrors to initiate an ice cube would give her the win. Needles will still be a viable option for winning if he goes into CM2.
No? It's still Gai we are talking about, who's every technique would be dramatically faster than anything part 1 Lee could do.
Kisame has some of the most insane reaction feats in the manga. Don't know where you're going with this. And Neji didn't make contact, it was a air palm. Completely irrelevant to what your point is trying to convey. Lee has a 5 and he was clearly there, and this is part 2 Lee.
Sasuke didn't react to Gai's attack, don't know what you mean by that. And no, Haku's first 10 or so hops with the mirrors will never be reacted to by Kimimaro. Period. You denying that blocking Gai and Lee's attack is a tremendous feat isn't going to change anything, and giving me a feat of Kisame trapping people like Lee in water prison is only going to add to Kisame's own feats, not take away from Haku's.
I said she can just sit in an ice cube. She doesn't have to sense him to pretty much block all his attacks given their lack of power in that form. And what? She's using her mirrors continuously, it doesn't mean she can't use other jutsu lml. Only because she didn't show it doesn't mean you can outright debunk it. And lol @ bold You deliberately use the word survive to ignore the fact they could only survive due to his ink rather then speed.
Nobody said she'd be sitting in her ice cube pre-Bone forest. There's no reason in the first place.
Oh my god. Are you fking with me Evani? It's an extremely simple concept I've explained several times. Kimimaro's bone is NOT OFFENSIVE. Raiton sword IS OFFENSIVE. Kimimaro's bone being able to only be chipped by it doesn't mean it can penetrate the same defences Kusanagi sword can. Swords pierce. His bone doesn't do shit without forc, it's nothing special offensively.
And really now? Don't grasp at straws with the Gyuki argument. We both know Shurikens have cut his Tentacles in half too. Minato did it with a fcking Kunai too lmao. So LOOK. Raiton Kusanagi would cut through the cube being so sharp, same with Chakra Samurai swords. Now what happens when a bone tries to pierce or bump into the ice block? Nothing whatsoever. UNLESS Kimimaro can create that much force by just swinging it GIVEN the fact that he's stuck in such a SMALL AREA. Do you get it? It doesn't matter how durable his damn bone is, it can be PS durability for all I care, unless he can generate enough force to destroy the ice, its durability is completely irrelevant. It's lik a shield being able to block a PS shockwave and then being said to be capable of creating the same destructive shockwave as the PS merely because it stalemated with it. It's completely irrelevant as the only offensive power that the bone has comes from Kimi running with it, which he can't in that small space.
Uh, yes it does. Hebi Sasuke argument is irrelevant, Deidara is top tier speedster on foot as well given he dodged Gaara's sand. Lee and Gai would have 0 reason to hold back on their Leaf Whirl Wind. At all. She blocked it. Period. Sasuke dodged it because he had already see Lee use that ability on Naruto. He knew before Lee started spinning that the attack was coming from above. The attack happening at the same time doesn't change anything either. Lee in Part 2 would be tremendously more powerful then Part 1 Lee given he could use up to 6 Gates at that point in the Shinobi War.
I didn't say he can't.
Fair comparison. But the speed of Shukaku was irrelevant against so many clones of Naruto. They just had to outnumber him to smash him, it had nothing to do with the clones being able to perceive his speed or not.
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Naruto only had a chance because of NUMBERS. But numbers were irrelevant against a KKG user like Kimimaro who could make numbers practically useless against him by merely growing bones to make clones go poof
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And the amount of chakra released would be completely different based on his emotions. He literally thought Sasuke was dead and released a more powerful version of his KN0. He was deflecting kunais and shurikens with pure chakra and could burn people by touching them
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Even his movements were completely different since he wasn't the on in control
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. So nah, there's absolutely NOTHING to compare that KN0 Nardo vs the one who could be damaged with a punch and was mindful.I already showed you how much more powerful the one VS Haku was. He had far more Kyuubi chakra.
He himself might fail, sure, doesn't change that it holds no meaning in this debate as there's a clear difference between the two KN0 Naruto's.
Nope, already gave you the scans. He was on another level vs Haku since he probably unleashed far more Kyuubi chakra.
Edit: Apologise in advance for all the times I called Haku a girl lol
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Lord Tywin
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Kimimaro beat her. Haku pinpointing needles to Kimimaro's eyes won't work either when sand pressure couldn't put a dent on him.
Apêx1
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Nothing but hardcore manga facts man
Haizaki
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She can't hit him with his reflexes. Sasuke could hop in to save Naruto from the needles which is a reaction..This is the Sasuke who was far below Lee. Yet you're I'm still trying to tell you how Kimmimaro would evade it. This makes 0 sense.
Why shouldn't I bring Lee? There's the fact that she failed to react to KN0 Naruto's punch:
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and the fact that he couldn't react to Base Sasuke's Kick
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.Yet I'm supposed to accept this idea of her reacting Gai who was blitzing her with full speed? It makes no sense that an Alive Haku couldn't react to Naruto and Sasuke but yet when revived could react to Gai actually blitzing her with full power. Where did that feat come from? He was dead, how did he get so fast and all upon being revived? Not accepting that especially when that attack speed itself isn't credible..Temari reacted to it
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and I showed you and inexperienced Sasuke reacting to that particular attack but shortly getting blitz by Lee after he activated his Sharingan. Haku reacted to that same attack that both Gai and Lee landed at the same time...A collaboration technique. Which means they had to both keep up with themselves. Not Gai blitzing speed as it makes no sense when you factor in Sasuke and Naruto's feat against Haku..Not to mention Haku barely has his hands bracing himself. Doesn't automatically mean he can defend from Kimmi all the time.
Exactly and he's much faster than part 2 Lee yet they both landed their kick at the same time on Haku...Like I said, when you factor in everything this logic makes no sense.
That Haku's feat means she'll never be hit despite we seeing Base Sasuke manhandling him until he goes in his mirror which only alters his attacking speed and not his defensive such as reactions.
Lool So what you're telling me is 10% of his clone can normally react to both lee and Neji's full blitzing speed? Lol funny. 30% is already weaker but you're talking about 10% out of 30? Christ.
How about No? Neji used body blow to counter the water. I'm pretty sure you didn't even read my scan or you'd clearly be seeing the fact that it was the 10% clone that reacted to team Gai members. Don't know where you got Air palm being used on the 3 clones created.
You need to stop with this Gai feat that's not a legit one...There's the fact that you're even using Edo feats to represent an Alive one. Unacceptable till you give me examples why Base Sasuke without Lee's speed can force Haku to not react and why Naruto can punch him with no physical reactions.
You need to get more proof on your side..Rather than use this idea of Kimmimaro not being able to dodge the needles. It barely has feats of bypassing Sasuke and Naruto but you somehow argue for someone far experienced with much better feats?
Till Haku shows she can keep up with them rather than barely blocking an attack which an inexperienced Sasuke could see and react to(So did Temari), then we'll argue about this. There's the fact that both Gai and Lee collaborated which means they both kept up with themselves and not their full speed since we know the attack landed at the same time but Gai is naturally faster than Lee. Haku barely blocking isn't enough to convince me that she can react to Kimmimaro every time when I've shown she couldn't react to Sasuke.
There's the fact that your Edo feat isn't a proper representative of her Alive feat and there's the fact that a dead Haku won't have improved to such a high level upon being revived.
It does because that's her most powerful Jutsu which she has active and then there's the fact that it consumes a lot of Chakra..Haku has never shown us she can have this active and use another Jutsu so I'll rather stick with the Manga instead of listening to this which holds no solid proof. Why does Haku resort to needles as a form of weaponry when she uses this?
It consumes a lot of chakra because it's actively being used..When has Haku shown the feats of being other Jutsus? Never.
@SecondBold what are you talking about? What ink? I didn't really see what happened but they were on top Sai's birds and we see Haku throwing Needles in front of both. They reacted or they survived...Explain to me what the ink did? Lol that was as a result of the bird they were riding on being attacked.
So she has no intel and would know when to activate it during the Bone forest? You also have zero proof she can create it and Ice as durable from below even:
Hence no protection from beneath and you can't use this as a REPRESENTATIVE of all of Haku's Ice durability since it's a Jutsu of it's own.
I'm asking you the same? The bold? Says who?
None of this is refutes the fact that the bones can pierce/bump through. Especially when it has shown the fact to rip through Gaara's sand which is much more durable than the Ice taking explosive tags.
Shurikens cutting through doesn't mean much when does Shurikens are incredibly big....A kunai cutting through was due to the fact that enough force was exerted through and there's the fact it didn't completely cut the tail. The part it cut was also small in comparison to a fully transform Hachibi.
Either way this doesn't matter till you can drive to me how Haku defends himself from bones underneath.
This doesn't make sense.
Lee used leaf Gale on Naruto which is a different technique to leaf hurricane. Explanation for Temari blocking it leaf hurricane?
Let's stick by your logic...Sasuke isn't able to blitz Deidara since he reacted to Sasuke first attack. Kimmimaro is a skilled Taijutsu user and also has the reflexes and continuous attack that can force Haku on the defensive.
Haku's reflexes are not on Lee's level..Yet you're arguing how Kimmi can't react to the needles.
Are you even serious now?
They couldn't land a single blow..You're bring in something extremely irrelevant. That's all..Naruto enhanced in his Kyuubi state couldn't land a single blow on Kimmi further hinting at his speed and reflexes. Matter of fact, he used his sword alone to wipe out 5 instantly.
It's a legit Kimmi feat and one that also suggest Haku doesn't stand a chance in a CQC..."Naruto only had a chance cuz of Numbers" but yet you ignore the fact that he didn't need to use numbers against Haku.
@bold, You need to stop this talk about mindless and not mindless..It's irrelevant because Naruto is enhanced either way. If you even want to start this argument, there's the fact Mindless Naruto's feat is nothing before Naruto with his Mind.
You talk about him being able to deflect Kunais with his mouth but he can do so even when not mindless
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...He Blitz Sasuke with Lee's speed. GREATER than any feat MINDLESS KNO Naruto has shown to us in part 1.Kimmi destroyed him without being touched...No need to even argue this.
Base Naruto with clones could take care of Gaara in his Jin state which was said to be fast and Sasuke thanked his Sharingan to why he could react. Naruto in control of the kyuubi's power>>>>>Mindless based on feats.
Yet he couldn't touch Kimmi but blitz Haku? Not hearing what you're saying.
Not even close. Read it over and Naruto in control is >>>Mindless Naruto since he has shown everything he could do and has better feats against Sharingan Sasuke with Lee's speed.
Haku on the other hand got blitzed by KNO Naruto, failed to react to Sauske in his base..Had to use Naruto to draw 2T Sasuke who got blitzed by Base Lee and said attacking him head on would be dangerous. Many more I could keep saying but it's extremely ridiculous what you're saying in regards to Haku and Kimmi's situation.
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Unorthodox
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This fight is not close at all
Kimmimaro >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curse mark Sasuke > Rock lee weights off = Sasuke CE2 >> rock lee (Weights on) > 2 tomoe sasuke > 1 tomoe Sasuke > Haku
this is not comparable at all.
Kimmimaro >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curse mark Sasuke > Rock lee weights off = Sasuke CE2 >> rock lee (Weights on) > 2 tomoe sasuke > 1 tomoe Sasuke > Haku
this is not comparable at all.