[Discussion] Haki and Devil Fruit speculations.

[Skylar Knight]

Haki and Devil Fruit speculations

Haki

1. Gomu Gomu no Baka (name of one of Luffy's attacks) has been the only state where one's movements can't be predicted by Kenbunshoku Haki. This was displayed against Enel's mantra, during their fight on top of Maxim. This suggests that predicting the moves of your opponent is closer to mind reading, than actually predicting the future.

2. Although the black skin effect of its usage is common after the timeskip, it was not seen at all before. This suggests that only people with some skill with Busoshoku Haki can see the black skin effect. One example of this is the Strawhats' fight against Kraken. Despite never seeing the black skin effect before, the rest of the Strawhats did not comment on Luffy's usage of Busoshoku Haki (they did in the anime, however), indicating that they never actually saw the "iron clad" around his arm.

3. Despite being one of the strongest in his time, Whitebeard's Haki wasn't strong enough to deal damage to Aokoji, and later on Kizaru. This suggests (shut up, I like saying that word) that equally-mastered Busoshoku cancel each other out. Another example of this is when Marco and Vista attacked Akainu, yet weren't able to do any harm to him.

Devil Fruits

1. While eating such a fruit grants you a random ability, it also seems to give you the necessary knowledge about the ability given to you. Luffy is a primarly example of this. He was aware of rubber being a natural insulator, which might be why he did not bother ducking out of the way of Enel's lightning attacks as it would have been pointless because of his immunity. He also was able to develop new techniques such as "Gear Second" and "Gear Third", using logical concepts and knowledge of rubber and its properties.

2. Helmeppo stated and implied that Luffy's Gomu Gomu no Mi was already in the Devil Fruit encyclopedia, which means that it had already been listed before it was consumed by Luffy. As this happened twelve years ago, the encyclopedia must be older than that. Since there is a book that lists and identify the Devil Fruits around the world, it could also mean there are records of the previous users of each fruit, depending on what method they used to identify them.

3. The origin of Devil Fruits is unknown, but theories suggests that they were made in a similar fashion to SMILEs. It has yet to be revealed who's behind the making of these fruits, but some believe those with the Will of D were resposible for it. If this happens to be true, then the initial 'D' could possibly stand for Devil.


There was no real meaning to this thread, I just got bored, I guess. Feel free to discuss the points I brought up, and whether you agree with me or not.​

 

[Cigbeast]

I agree with these points

 

[KGB Kakuzu]

For Point Number 2: Just because they didn't comment on it, does not imply they know nothing of it. In fact the opposite is true. On Punk Hazard, Robin was capable of completely explaining Armament to Franky, and was able to easily identify Conquerer's Haki on Fishmen Island.

For point number 3: It isn't that they tanked his attacks.... they used their logia state to avoid it (along with Haki). If you look at Aokiji's stomach, he's created a hole where the bisento goes. Kizaru flies up and lands on WB's bisento. Considering Sakazuki was decimated by Whitebeard's strikes, it shows he had the Haki to damage to other two Admirals; however, they were better able to dodge whether that be circumstance or the element of their fruits.

 

[Olorin]

2. Yea I love One Piece and Oda but I think Oda just didn't know until TS what exactly Haki was :/

In fact Haki is so inconsistent that even though we have seen the RBY admirals, WB, Marco, ... in action the portrayal suggests that Vergo is BY FAR the strongest Haki user ... Which we all know isn't true

Haki is the largest inconsistency in OP

 

[blood hound]

Before the timeskip, "HAKI" was an enigma and rarely used/seen. "HAKI" wasn't something that grants you more power, or strength.... Before the timeskip it only gave the user the ability to touch/fight a logia, predict movement and overwhelm. I don't re-call whitebeard using Haki or anything that mentioned he was using Haki. Even if so, the classification of Haki was completely different to that of now. Oda himself has stated that he didn't really know how to implement Haki and that he changed some of it's abilities (which is understandable... And shows you how Great Oda is) even the "Iron Clad" impression we all see was not planned..... Oda stated that he created this "iron clad" for the viewers to see when the character is using it.

OT: I like your Devil fruit idea +rep

 

[Skylar Knight]

For Point Number 2: Just because they didn't comment on it, does not imply they know nothing of it. In fact the opposite is true. On Punk Hazard, Robin was capable of completely explaining Armament to Franky, and was able to easily identify Conquerer's Haki on Fishmen Island.

For point number 3: It isn't that they tanked his attacks.... they used their logia state to avoid it (along with Haki). If you look at Aokiji's stomach, he's created a hole where the bisento goes. Kizaru flies up and lands on WB's bisento. Considering Sakazuki was decimated by Whitebeard's strikes, it shows he had the Haki to damage to other two Admirals; however, they were better able to dodge whether that be circumstance or the element of their fruits.

I could've phrased myself a bit better, but I was talking about Busoshoku haki, not haki in general. I believe those with no mastery over their Busoshoku haki can't actually see the "iron clad" that surrounds one's body. That's why we didn't see the black skin effect at Marineford, 'cause we saw things in Luffy's perspective.

Also, both Marco and Vista clearly managed to hit Akainu. They were somewhat baffled, or rather irritated, 'cause they didn't manage to hurt him.

2. Yea I love One Piece and Oda but I think Oda just didn't know until TS what exactly Haki was :/

In fact Haki is so inconsistent that even though we have seen the RBY admirals, WB, Marco, ... in action the portrayal suggests that Vergo is BY FAR the strongest Haki user ... Which we all know isn't true

Haki is the largest inconsistency in OP

Before the timeskip, "HAKI" was an enigma and rarely used/seen. "HAKI" wasn't something that grants you more power, or strength.... Before the timeskip it only gave the user the ability to touch/fight a logia, predict movement and overwhelm. I don't re-call whitebeard using Haki or anything that mentioned he was using Haki. Even if so, the classification of Haki was completely different to that of now. Oda himself has stated that he didn't really know how to implement Haki and that he changed some of it's abilities (which is understandable... And shows you how Great Oda is) even the "Iron Clad" impression we all see was not planned..... Oda stated that he created this "iron clad" for the viewers to see when the character is using it.

OT: I like your Devil fruit idea +rep

Obviously, but that doesn't mean he can't find a way to explain Pre-TS haki. It'd be just like him to do so.

 

[Naruto Power]

i liked this post / thread.
agree with most but the devil fruit d thing
ive post my thoughts about the ocean lines being created by wg before.
for luffys fruit in the first episode shank calls it a treasure worth 3m "i think been a few years"

now why so much and why would he call it a treasure when the only other thing he called a treasure was the straw hat.
and do you think it gol d rogers fruit? he did die meaning it would come back.

 

[Lili-Chwan]

No, it's not that Luffy knew he would be an insulator (He wouldn't even know it know, he would just say it was magic). There have been multiple instances of DF users, especially new DF users, experimenting and figuring out their Devil Fruits. Of course the name of the Devil Fruit might have been recorded in the book (which isn't something new, it's already cannon that there are some DF that were recorded in the book a long time ago), and, along with it, a sort of explanation for the powers, but there's still no innate knowledge of what the DF does.

 

[Skylar Knight]

No, it's not that Luffy knew he would be an insulator (He wouldn't even know it know, he would just say it was magic).

Although the translation could be off, Luffy says right here that he's immune to electricity.

Spoiler

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Of course the name of the Devil Fruit might have been recorded in the book (which isn't something new, it's already cannon that there are some DF that were recorded in the book a long time ago)

I know very well that it's not something new, of course it isn't, which is why I mentioned Helmeppo. He's, after all, the one who told Luffy about it, the book (encyclopedia). The point was that, instead of just having explanations of the powers of each fruit, there could also be a list of previous users.