[Theory] Hagoromo was unable to preform "Creation of All Things"...

[Shinato]

I think Hamura somehow transfered his Yin power into Hagoromo before he died. I assume he died even before Hagoromo had kids because we didn't see him in any of those flashbacks.... Maybe as you say during sealing process.

The reason why I think this is, if Hagoromo had only Yang he couldn't have gift Sasuke Yin power.

That is a possibility I was thinking off. However, I don't think that this is the case. Because Hagoromo obviously had some Yin, every Shinobi does. But you would need a perfect balance between Yang and Yin in order to preform COAT. Hagoromo probably had much more Yang than Yin, while it was opposite for Hamura. Hagoromo probably gave all his Yin to Sasuke and equal amount of Yang to Naruto to balance them out. It may also be that he simply unlocked the potential hidden within their chakra, or that he gained Hamura's/Bijuu's Yin later.

 

[Shinato]

If you re-read 681 more carefuly you can see that Hamura had Yin on his left hand.

Hamura's hand was never shown.. =I

 

[IceLolly]

Hamura's hand was never shown.. =I

Spoiler

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So you want to tell me that Hagoromo has each side of his suit different?

 

[Six Paths]

I really really like this idea, Obito will be by this fulfilling his dream to achieve peace and in a way he did achiever finally peace. The new moon, the moon that shows the strugle for peace.

 

[mzarif]

The Bijuus were created by Hagoromo on his deathbed using COAT.

Some people actually theorized that Hamura's Yin power got sealed into Hagoromo who was originally Yang.

 

[Shinato]

That's not how COT works to use it you need both the moon and sun mark. OR the capability to use izanagi, izanagi though is derived from COT with eye cost. Most likely to use the original COT you need the sun yang mark and the moon yin mark.

negato didn't have the sharningan or the marks so he couldn't use it.

You're grammar is fairly annoying to understand, but I think I managed it. (You may want to work on it in the future! ) Back to the point. COAT works by combining the powers of Yin and Yang in order to give shape from nothingness and breath life into it. It was never stated that a Yin and Yang mark was required, its most likely only symbolic. Izanagi is a jutsu based of COAT as it changes the destiny of its user. However, Izanagi doesn't create something from nothingness. It only changes whats already existing, but it does copy reality in which is why its a weaker form of COAT. Also Nagato had Rinnegan, which is an evolution of the Sharingan, so he should have been able to preform it. (It was never stated if you actually needed to change the Rinnegan into the Sharingan in order to use its Jutsus.)

 

[Shinato]

Spoiler

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So you want to tell me that Hagoromo has each side of his suit different?

That is Sasuke's and Naruto's hands... =I

 

[IceLolly]

The Bijuus were created by Hagoromo on his deathbed using COAT.

Some people actually theorized that Hamura's Yin power got sealed into Hagoromo who was originally Yang.

I agree with this one!

 

[IceLolly]

That is Sasuke's and Naruto's hands... =I

Ummmm...

 

[Shinato]

The Bijuus were created by Hagoromo on his deathbed using COAT.

Some people actually theorized that Hamura's Yin power got sealed into Hagoromo who was originally Yang.

Obito stated that Hagoromo created the Bijuu's and sealed the Gedo within the Moon on his death bed. That was the legend of Hagoromo, the Rikudou Sennin. All legends are based on some form of fact, in most cases anyways. The latest chapter proved that it was Hagoromo and Hamura that sealed the Juubi, not Hagoromo alone. Meaning that the legend that Obito told was false. However, as I said it was most likely based on some facts. Like that the Juubi and Bijuus were created around the same time. Well the chakra was probably sealed within Hagoromo at the time when the Juubi was sealed. Later Hagoromo used Yang release to create life withing the Chakra shapes that was sealed within him.

 

[Mikeuhsomething36]

Read my message again. I said they can both use it hagoromo+hamura=kaguya. So it would take both to seal her.

btw it's a face...if someone has a face that looks mean but they are really a nice person you'll just assume them mean? That's horrible judgmental skills if you do that you should stop. Just because they look it doesn't mean they are. When hagoromo talked to Naruto he looked the same way but he was calm, and charismatic like Naruto said he was cool despite naruto's outburst. Hagoromo is the calmest man I've seen in the series just because he looks that way doesn't mean he us you fail to disprove this.

think of it this way I and a brother can use fireball jutsu but our lets say father can do the same thing even though me and my father can use it my dad outclasses me with that so I'd need my brother. Same logic with COT hagoromo had COT from beginning he used it before his death.

even his sons were said to be born of HAGOROMO'S yin and yang prowess. We don't know what hamura has but you it's more than just yin. Besides you're ignoring the fact hagoromo has the rinnegan so he has yin as well as yang. The reason hagoromo can use it is because he is kaguya's son along with his brother. Hamura should have yin and yang too a long with other abilities. Unless he's wuji. Which isn't bad either.

 

[Shinato]

Ummmm...

Its okay! Mistakes are allowed, well for me at least. (Most people on here would probably kill you for it, but a mistake from time to time will only give room for less mistake in the future.)

 

[ANiMUS]

The Bijuu's are Yin, they are already shapes as Chakra has a shape when its solid enough. The Bijuu's chakra already had a shape, like the Juubi. Though they had no mind, no lives what so ever. Hagoromo used his Yang abilities to breath life into their shapes, like Naruto has shown with Gai and Kakashi.

It was stated that Hagoromo also sealed the Gedo Mazo and created the moon on his death bed, that was proven wrong. The Bijuu's are Yin, they are already shapes as Chakra has a shape when its solid enough. The Bijuu's chakra already had a shape, like the Juubi. Though they had no mind, no lives what so ever. Hagoromo used his Yang abilities to breath life into their shapes, like Naruto has shown with Gai and Kakashi.

When did it state that the bijuu already had forms? Hagoromo created and even name them. Them being forms already would mean that in some sense they already existed. I can't really see how that is possible if the juubi without Kaguya was was a mindless creature, but the bijuu themselves have minds and feelings?

 

[mzarif]

Obito stated that Hagoromo created the Bijuu's and sealed the Gedo within the Moon on his death bed. That was the legend of Hagoromo, the Rikudou Sennin. All legends are based on some form of fact, in most cases anyways. The latest chapter proved that it was Hagoromo and Hamura that sealed the Juubi, not Hagoromo alone. Meaning that the legend that Obito told was false. However, as I said it was most likely based on some facts. Like that the Juubi and Bijuus were created around the same time. Well the chakra was probably sealed within Hagoromo at the time when the Juubi was sealed. Later Hagoromo used Yang release to create life withing the Chakra shapes that was sealed within him.

No the new chapter doesn't indicate something like that.

Hagoromo became the Juubi Jin and on his deathbed he created the Bijuus. Proof?

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[Seventh Sama]

No the new chapter doesn't indicate something like that.

Hagoromo became the Juubi Jin and on his deathbed he created the Bijuus. Proof?

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Yup
/thread

 

[Mikeuhsomething36]

It doesn't take a genius to read grammar it's fine. Unless I have to break it down to you but I don't feel like talking down on someone. And now you're just assuming thing you're implying that because he has the rimnegan he can use IZANAGI where is your manga fact that negato could use it?

furthermore it's the powers of illusion (yin) yin is spiritual, then bringing life into it (yang) which affects the physical world you have yet to properly disprove anything I said instead you base whatever argument you used on assumptions and made up facts. I'm using the manga as a source and if you actually read amy wiki it says you need the sharnningan for izanagi....

 

[IceLolly]

Something that came to my mind right now.... What about shiki fuujin on much bigger scale?

Hamura used it as Minato did, sealed Juubi's chakra into Hagoromo and transfered some of his own chakra into him (as Minato did with Naruto)... At the same time they used empty Juubi shell as core for moon... Later in life Hagoromo with use of his own Yang and Hamuras Yin created bijuus.

 

[Shinato]

Read my message again. I said they can both use it hagoromo+hamura=kaguya. So it would take both to seal her.

btw it's a face...if someone has a face that looks mean but they are really a nice person you'll just assume them mean? That's horrible judgmental skills if you do that you should stop. Just because they look it doesn't mean they are. When hagoromo talked to Naruto he looked the same way but he was calm, and charismatic like Naruto said he was cool despite naruto's outburst. Hagoromo is the calmest man I've seen in the series just because he looks that way doesn't mean he us you fail to disprove this.

think of it this way I and a brother can use fireball jutsu but our lets say father can do the same thing even though me and my father can use it my dad outclasses me with that so I'd need my brother. Same logic with COT hagoromo had COT from beginning he used it before his death.

even his sons were said to be born of HAGOROMO'S yin and yang prowess. We don't know what hamura has but you it's more than just yin. Besides you're ignoring the fact hagoromo has the rinnegan so he has yin as well as yang. The reason hagoromo can use it is because he is kaguya's son along with his brother. Hamura should have yin and yang too a long with other abilities. Unless he's wuji. Which isn't bad either.

No, I do judge people off how they look, that is however only until I actually get to know them. If my visual idea of someone is that they are a bad person, then I will believe that until I talk with them and get to know them. After doing so my opinion may change or it may not, depending of they actually are a "bad" person or not. Its human nature to judge by looks, its only a matter of how much that judgment matter to you, and to me it matter very little, in real life. When Hagoromo talked with Naruto he looked like that when Naruto didn't understand what he was saying, he however relaxed his eyes and browns along with his mouth everytime Naruto understood him. Even to the point where he looked sad, when he was talking about Kaguya. Meaning he was slightly annoyed that he had communication issues with Naruto, but that went away when Naruto finally understood him. When you judge someone by their looks, you look for facial structure and see whats natural and whats not. If they are using muscles to alter their face, then its not its natural shape. (If someone looks mad for example.) Hagoromo showed that he could be annoyed, calm and sad under his conversation with Naruto. Under Kaguya's flashbacks, he has shown that he can be angry. Hagoromo is a mere man, he has emotions as everyone else, just like Naruto has. If the strongest Jutsu of all time could be preformed by a single person, then it would ruin the point of Hamura and partnership. If that is the case then Hagoromo could simply grant Naruto and Sasuke both the ability to preform the sealing on Kaguya alone. So that they would still work together but they wouldn't really need each other. Unless you mean that Hagoromo is forcing Naruto and Sasuke to work together. Rinnegan is awaken by gaining Hagoromo's chakra, not Yin and Yang. (Though it is made out of that, as everyone's chakra is made out of it.) Indra inherited Hagoromo's strong chakra and visual prowess, while Ashura inherited Hagoromo's strong body and life force. In other words, his Yin and Yang. However, Ashura was only strong because of his friends and not alone, while the Yin counterpart was strong alone. That is the only contradiction to my theory. However, his sons didn't gain all his abilities as none had Rinnegan nor was anyone as strong as him. Meaning they probably got about 25% of his power each. Indra gained 25% of his Yin, while Ashura gained 25% of his Yang. Hagoromo was most likely made out of 75% Yang and 25% Yin. (Terrible example, I know.) In other words, they inherited the same amount of power, only different parts.

 

[Shinato]

No the new chapter doesn't indicate something like that.

Hagoromo became the Juubi Jin and on his deathbed he created the Bijuus. Proof?

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I will repeat myself. Hagoromo and Hamura sealed the Juubi within the Moon, and at the time Hagoromo became the Jin of the Juubi's chakra, while Hamura died of unknown means. (That has already been confirmed) Hagoromo did most likely create the 9 Bijuu's sometime around his death, but not using COAT. As they already had shapes in the form of chakra within him, meaning that Yin wasn't needed to create them, only Yang. (There is also the theory that Hagoromo gained Hamura's Yin powers after his death however.) Also, Orange Hokage, you would agree with me if I had an entire thread saying; "Naruto is the best." Right?

 

[Waindo]

I don't buy this. He could not have sealed off Kaguya, nor create the bijuus w/o Banbutsu Sozo.