The various groups, with their members, are often compared in the story.
The first of these were the ranked groups, with Jonin being stronger than Chunin being stronger than Genin.
After these Kage were added in, after whom the Sannin were added in as being stronger still.
The first time a weaker group was added was when the Seven Swordsfolk were bought up as stronger than Joining but weaker than Sannin. The Uchiha were added in to that gap. It was not made clear, but I've since compared and consider the Uchiha as weaker than the Seven Swordsfolk.
While they were shown, the Akatsuki were only properly introduced later and their power was also capped below the Sannin (Deidara vs Sasuke). While I disagree, even their strongest (SPoP) conceded to them.
Other groups, such as Prodigal Talents, were referenced without being explicitly noted. These usually just fell at the top of whatever rank they held (Neji being the strongest genin, Kakashi as the strongest jonin etc) and were more of theme than a group.
Of course, with the more elite groups often having fewer members, it could be argued that overall group powers equal out in some fantasical them. Of course I disagree, but that's not the point of this thread. I just noted this to call for the focus to be on the strength of group members, as opposed to the whole groups themselves.
In terms of their hierarchy, I always had it with Akatsuki Leader > Sannin > Kage > Akatsuki > Seven Swordsfolk > Uchiha > Jonin = Anbu
However, I'm questioning that as of late.
Firstly, with the Akatsuki Leader being stronger than the Sannin. But that's not for this thread.
For this thread, I'm wondering if the Akatsuki aren't meant to be stronger than Kage.
I always had Kage as stronger because the Akatsuki were always defeated by teams, subordinates of Kage. Additionally, there are fewer Kage than Akatsuki and the qualifications are the strictest possible - be the outright strongest in an entire region.
However, a Kage is not always chosen out of strength (Kakashi) and the title of 'strongest' is relative, not absolute. For Akatsuki, they have to be able to beat a Beast Bearer, which is almost always an absolute measure of power. This is even more important when one considers that Jinchuuriki are implied stronger than Kage twice over. Firstly, because Tailed Beasts often require more than a Kage to deal with. Secondly, because Beast Bearers are supposed to tame and thus focus the power of a beast, making them even stronger than the beast alone. Additionally, the deaths of Hashirama and Tobirama clearly put it to us that Kage are also killed by teams. If nothing else, these teams consist of the strongest after the Kage, who are essentially Kage before they get the title. So the Akatsuki losing to these teams is not a proof of weakness. This point is strengthened when one considers the context associated with many of their losses, such as Sasori and Deidara effectively committing suicide. Finally, the Akatsuki always conducted their missions alone, adding to the idea of their individual strength.
Of course, all these are just pointers and guidelines. Actual ability level has to be sourced from the actual characters. In this case, I noted something interesting: the Akatsuki are kage killers! Not only, but killers of elite kage. In their stories, the Akatsuki were introduced as such. The first was Deidara - also the youngest Akatsuki, called a weakling by another - defeating Gaara in his own village, seemingly while not at full power. Then we had Sasori being said to have defeated a far stronger kage in the 3rd KK, again while not at full power (before he had his multitude of puppets, which he got after leaving his village). After him we had Kakuzu who challenged and survived against Hashirama in his own village. His story, however, doesn't end there. Kakuzu uses an ability, Earth Spear, which seems to have been used by the 1st Tsuchikage. Since he sources his abilities from his hearts, it fits then that Kakuzu killed the 1st TK. After him there is Obito, who somehow toyed with a Beast Bearer of a kage in Yagura. Finally, there is Nagato who defeated Hanzo, who is said by a Sannin to have been powerful beyond challenge. There seems then to be a consistent occurance of Akatsuki being kage killers. Even the ones who lack such showings are either given the highest mission scores (Konan) or noted as new to the group. It seems as though the author was purposefully excusing a trend he had broken. Even so, Hidan was given the showing of defeating a near perfect Beast Bearer. So one can't even argue him being an exception since Beast Bearers are already put ahead of Kage. Even if one makes a case about his abilities lacking, it hardly matters if they somehow allow him to defeat such opponents. So if the Akatsuki are kage killers, then surely that puts them ahead of Kage in group hierarchies?
With all these factors considered, how would you rank Akatsuki against Kage?
As for my overall group hierarchy:
1. Sannin/Akatsuki Leader
2. Akatsuki/Kage/Beast Bearers
3. Seven Swordsfolk/Elite Units
4. Uchiha/Clans
The first of these were the ranked groups, with Jonin being stronger than Chunin being stronger than Genin.
After these Kage were added in, after whom the Sannin were added in as being stronger still.
The first time a weaker group was added was when the Seven Swordsfolk were bought up as stronger than Joining but weaker than Sannin. The Uchiha were added in to that gap. It was not made clear, but I've since compared and consider the Uchiha as weaker than the Seven Swordsfolk.
While they were shown, the Akatsuki were only properly introduced later and their power was also capped below the Sannin (Deidara vs Sasuke). While I disagree, even their strongest (SPoP) conceded to them.
Other groups, such as Prodigal Talents, were referenced without being explicitly noted. These usually just fell at the top of whatever rank they held (Neji being the strongest genin, Kakashi as the strongest jonin etc) and were more of theme than a group.
Of course, with the more elite groups often having fewer members, it could be argued that overall group powers equal out in some fantasical them. Of course I disagree, but that's not the point of this thread. I just noted this to call for the focus to be on the strength of group members, as opposed to the whole groups themselves.
In terms of their hierarchy, I always had it with Akatsuki Leader > Sannin > Kage > Akatsuki > Seven Swordsfolk > Uchiha > Jonin = Anbu
However, I'm questioning that as of late.
Firstly, with the Akatsuki Leader being stronger than the Sannin. But that's not for this thread.
For this thread, I'm wondering if the Akatsuki aren't meant to be stronger than Kage.
I always had Kage as stronger because the Akatsuki were always defeated by teams, subordinates of Kage. Additionally, there are fewer Kage than Akatsuki and the qualifications are the strictest possible - be the outright strongest in an entire region.
However, a Kage is not always chosen out of strength (Kakashi) and the title of 'strongest' is relative, not absolute. For Akatsuki, they have to be able to beat a Beast Bearer, which is almost always an absolute measure of power. This is even more important when one considers that Jinchuuriki are implied stronger than Kage twice over. Firstly, because Tailed Beasts often require more than a Kage to deal with. Secondly, because Beast Bearers are supposed to tame and thus focus the power of a beast, making them even stronger than the beast alone. Additionally, the deaths of Hashirama and Tobirama clearly put it to us that Kage are also killed by teams. If nothing else, these teams consist of the strongest after the Kage, who are essentially Kage before they get the title. So the Akatsuki losing to these teams is not a proof of weakness. This point is strengthened when one considers the context associated with many of their losses, such as Sasori and Deidara effectively committing suicide. Finally, the Akatsuki always conducted their missions alone, adding to the idea of their individual strength.
Of course, all these are just pointers and guidelines. Actual ability level has to be sourced from the actual characters. In this case, I noted something interesting: the Akatsuki are kage killers! Not only, but killers of elite kage. In their stories, the Akatsuki were introduced as such. The first was Deidara - also the youngest Akatsuki, called a weakling by another - defeating Gaara in his own village, seemingly while not at full power. Then we had Sasori being said to have defeated a far stronger kage in the 3rd KK, again while not at full power (before he had his multitude of puppets, which he got after leaving his village). After him we had Kakuzu who challenged and survived against Hashirama in his own village. His story, however, doesn't end there. Kakuzu uses an ability, Earth Spear, which seems to have been used by the 1st Tsuchikage. Since he sources his abilities from his hearts, it fits then that Kakuzu killed the 1st TK. After him there is Obito, who somehow toyed with a Beast Bearer of a kage in Yagura. Finally, there is Nagato who defeated Hanzo, who is said by a Sannin to have been powerful beyond challenge. There seems then to be a consistent occurance of Akatsuki being kage killers. Even the ones who lack such showings are either given the highest mission scores (Konan) or noted as new to the group. It seems as though the author was purposefully excusing a trend he had broken. Even so, Hidan was given the showing of defeating a near perfect Beast Bearer. So one can't even argue him being an exception since Beast Bearers are already put ahead of Kage. Even if one makes a case about his abilities lacking, it hardly matters if they somehow allow him to defeat such opponents. So if the Akatsuki are kage killers, then surely that puts them ahead of Kage in group hierarchies?
With all these factors considered, how would you rank Akatsuki against Kage?
As for my overall group hierarchy:
1. Sannin/Akatsuki Leader
2. Akatsuki/Kage/Beast Bearers
3. Seven Swordsfolk/Elite Units
4. Uchiha/Clans