Grand Unified Theory Of Naruto

[Taimaidamshoo]

I'm going to wait til a movie version of this thread is made. Hopefully directed by Michael Bay for extra explosions.

 

[Byron123]

That was truly magnificent but so you suggest that even Danzo's actions were dictated by nature itself in an effort of bringing back the balance?

 

[ByakuganUser]

Finally finished reading! Didn't really understand the Japanese cultural thing, but the rest seems legit!

 

[Sentinel]

I read the whole thing and want to start of by complimenting you on the depth of your research and willingness to write such an extensive text.

there are some nice finds in there, the link with certain religions has been apparent in the manga befor, and the combination of budism and japanese mythologie has been an ongoing theme in the story. but you realy go in deep with it and find some impressive links.

your theory regarding the uzumaki as them being the guardians of the tree and BZ having something to do with wanting them dead sounds realy good and in my oppinion you realy might be on to something.
also hamuro's possible link with juugo's clan seems very possible.

I'm just not sure about the part where you stipulate that orochimaru, itachi and danzo might have taken specific actions to help naruto along because they would know more, the grand conspiracy, I just don't know. I got no proof to counter it, just doesn't feel good to me. and orochimaru being a good guy from the start, I don't know, something just doesn't feel right about that.

but appart from that it's a realy deep research with quite a lot of good points. keep it up I would say

 

[xcoyote]

This was so damn good.
+rep

 

[NaruSasuRival]

first, you did a great job and certainly put in a lot of effort which gave a really good reading for me. Concerning the content, a lot of good things are there, and I personally disagree with some of the theory.

I. On Uzumakis and Huyagas

One thing I really like is your analysis of hagoromo's action. I think you don't have to bring external evidence to prove that Hagoromo has been altering the natural course of life to fit is belief. The reason is that he said it himself that his decision concerning his mother's way (and also Indra's way) may be his own selfishness. The only problem here is that Hagoromo is definitely on the good side since he even worked with the toads, who are also connected to Naruto himself.

Apart from that, we have initially predicted that uzumaki were guardian of the tree, and that they may be the parents of Hagoromo. It also makes sense that the Huyaga could be connected to Kaguya herself - that is princess Kaguya is simply a princess of the Huyga clan, and only became the person we know now after eating the fruit. That would be really interesting, and it would fix the uneasiness I feel when trying to make sense of hagoromo's actions.

II. On Danzou, Kabuto, and Orochimaru

I doubt that these guys had any good intents. I believe that in every context, there is always good guys going for the normal ways of things, and bad guys trying to do or possess what they were not meant to interfere with. In a sense, you could say that bad guys are guides for the good guys, but this is the natural coupling of event. It is not an intentional coopeartion or mutual help. Rather, it is a fight with no mercy in which the good guys have to defeat the bad guys and lead them to what is right. Also, natural order imposed that no matter what the bad guys do, the good guys will be a mean of confusion to them because things are arranged so that they work properly only in the natural order.

This is how I see the interaction between Indra and Ashura, Itachi and Orochimaru, etc.

 

[xXRolex]

I am not giving this discussion a prefix as it extends beyond the prefixes.

This is the ultimate theory of Naruto and thereby the ultimate theory of Kishimoto. With it, nearly everything can be explained and nearly every overture in the plot can be predicted. Some individual details and character actions are nearly impossible to predict - but the overall course of the plot falls in line nicely.

But we need some epic music to fitting animations, so your trip here wasn't in vain:

[video=youtube;WU7SGn0MeP0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU7SGn0MeP0[/video]

We must first start at the beginning. Not at where various characters think the story began - but at the very beginning.

In the beginning, there was the endless expanse of nothing. Upon it shined the light of infinite potential, and from these two forces, symbolized by light and dark, the universe was born amidst the swirling tides of change.

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"The fundamental postulate is the "great primal beginning" of all that exists, t'ai chi – in its original meaning, the "ridgepole". Later Indian philosophers devoted much thought to this idea of a primal beginning. A still earlier beginning, wu chi, was represented by the symbol of a circle. Under this conception, t'ai chi was represented by the circle divided into the light and the dark, yang and yin, Yin yang.svg. This symbol has also played a significant part in India and Europe. However, speculations of a Gnostic-dualistic character are foreign to the original thought of the I Ching; what it posits is simply the ridgepole, the line. With this line, which in itself represents oneness, duality comes into the world, for the line at the same time posits an above and a below, a right and left, front and back – in a word, the world of the opposites. (1967:lv)"

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"Thus, the Taoist cosmos consists of 2 main parts: Wu-ji Non-Being) and Tai-ji (Being). In the depiction above, the Wu-ji surrounds the Taiji, smaller than the Wuji by definition (Tai-ji literally means “with limit”; Wu-ji “without limit”). Together, they function as a single entity, operating through a loosely-coupled resonance (ganying 感应) relationship, in which the Tai-ji senses the Wu-ji and moves in sympathy, spontaneously (自然 ziran) and without deliberate action (wu-wei 無為). (See TTC ch. 25 and ChuangTzu ch. 7 – Mair, Wandering On The Way, p. 71: “The mind of the ultimate man functions like a mirror… it responds (ying) but does not retain”.) Due to the symbiotic relationship between wu and you, when the classic texts (TaoTeChing, ChuangTzu and LiehTzu) refer to Tao, Tao can be either Wu-ji or Tai-ji or both. "

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"The Tai-ji embodies an expanding universe, because the energy field spins out oscillating in a spiral motion. From the TTC ch. 40, the motion of Tao is reversion or returning (反 fan) and from TTC ch. 25, the path of motion is circular. The character fan is drawn to suggest a turning around or flipping over. The original form of the Chinese character for returning (回 or “hui”) has its own origin in a spiral shape, so the movement of the Taiji traces a concentric coil that expands outward in one direction, contracts to unity in the other. (Sze, Mai Mai, The Tao Of Painting, New York: Pantheon Books, c. 1963, p. 16.) "

From this action of Taiji and Wuiji, we see the development of the Four Images; Great Yin, Great Yang, Minor Yin, Minor Yang. These four interact to produce the Bagua - or Eight Trigrams.

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The Five Elements are also depicted and are often placed as being the forces that give rise to the Four Images (though this depends upon which era of Taoism we are discussing).

Some depictions show this:

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It is important to understand this concept and relationship, as it expresses itself all throughout the Naruto Universe, as the real story has yet to surface.

Hints of the Truth:

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This is literally the key to the series.

The spiral motion of the Taijitu giving rise to the radiance of the Four Images that in turn produce the Eight Bagua. According to the Postnatal Heaven arrangement of bagua, the 'missing' element is thunder:

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Which is frequently denoted as being the phase of division. Which would make sense - seeing as the 'key' is supposed to alter the division of forces (though this could be an over-reach).

But the real key is the square in the upper left hand corner.

Here we enter into the world of Japanese Taoism as it merged with Shintoism.

The square is the symbol for the Sun and its goddess, Amaterasu.

The circle is the symbol for the Moon and its god, Tsukuyomi.

The triangle is the symbol for the stars and their god, Susano'o.

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"The Sun (Amaterasu, represented by the square), symbolizes our inner light, and rules the day, the state of Divine Presence. When presence is absent, the moon gives light, and rules the night, the state of sleep , in which man spends most of his days. The moon (Tsukuyomi no Mikoto, represented by the circle) symbolizes our ruling faculty or the mind, which Gurdjieff called the steward. It tries to bring us back to the state of presence. Gurdjieff spoke about creating moon in oneself, which means creating a steward, or a faculty in oneself that keeps reminding one to not sleep, but to be present.
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In ancient times, the stars were the main means of navigation at sea during the night. Stars (Susano-no-Mikoto, represented by the triangle) symbolize reminders to awaken the God within. When one is submerged in daily activities, one suddenly realizes that one is asleep, and one tells oneself to Be (present). Stars are small sparks of light in the darkness (the state of psychological sleep that we spend most of our waking hours in) that guide us to our destination, the present moment."

Which is a damned good explanation for Infinite Tsukuyomi and provides some interesting insight on how Kishimoto may go about breaking it.

If this does not grab your attention, I really do not know what will.

Obviously, the spiral has been seen elsewhere:

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The Uzumaki represent Taiji.

But who were the Uzumaki?

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"The first known mention of tree spirits is in Japan’s oldest known book, the Kojiki (Record of Thing’s Past) that talks about the tree god Wakunochi-no-kami, second born of the godling brood of Izanagi and Izanami."

If the Juubi or the Holy Tree is to have a name - it will quite possibly be known as Wakunochi. (If Naruto learned the name of the nine tailed beasts - why not the ten tailed one?)

But about the Uzumaki:

"In Aogashima, Izu Islands, people place small shrines at the base of cryptomeria (Japanese cedar) trees and still worship and pray to them. This is said to be the remainders of a nature-worshiping religion that once dominated."

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The Uzumaki were the original tenants of the Holy Tree.

They observed its adsorption of natural chakra and from these observations developed seals and rituals that harnessed the flow of natural chakra currents like the Holy Tree. I would wager that the most advanced and developed among all of them would have developed a form similar to 'Sage Mode.'

These were the sages of the natural order. For humans to seek the power of the fruit would be a breach of the natural order.

Enter the Ototosuki - the embodiment of Wuji - the endless nothing, or the endless yet-to-be.

It is the duty of the Ototsuki to select among them a member to consume the fruit and ascend to the realm of the gods. This ancient arrangement has existed since time began - the Ototsuki and Uzumaki acting in concert to preserve the harmony of energy within the universe.

Except Kaguya broke from tradition. Kaguya noticed the sorrow and the struggle of the people:

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Birth of A New Philosophy

She fell in love with the world and saw fit to involve herself in the world. Further, she fell in love (most probably with an Uzumaki) and bore two sons. Between them, she divided the power of the fruit.

From this, we get Rikodu - Hagoromo - the Sage of Six Paths; embodiment of Buddhism and the philosophy of ending human suffering.

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"As the day of her return approached, the Emperor set many guards around her house to protect her from the Moon people, but when an embassy of "Heavenly Beings" arrived at the door of Taketori no Okina's house, the guards were blinded by a strange light. Kaguya-hime announced that, though she loved her many friends on Earth, she must return with the Moon people to her true home. She wrote sad notes of apology to her parents and to the Emperor, then gave her parents her own robe as a memento. She then took a small taste of the elixir of life, attached it to her letter to the Emperor, and gave it to a guard officer. As she handed it to him, the feather robe was placed on her shoulders, and all of her sadness and compassion for the people of the Earth were forgotten. The heavenly entourage took Kaguya-hime back to Tsuki-no-Miyako ("the Capital of the Moon"), leaving her earthly foster parents in tears."

A feathered robe is called a Hagoromo.

Which is frequently worn by Tennin - the equivalent of Buddhist Angels in Japan:

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"Tennin (天人), which may include tenshi (天使), ten no tsukai (天の使い, lit. heavenly messenger) and the specifically female tennyo (天女) are spiritual beings found in Japanese Buddhism that are similar to western angels, nymphs or fairies.[citation needed] They were imported from Chinese Buddhism,[1] which was influenced itself by the concepts of heavenly beings found in Indian Buddhism and Chinese Taoism."

From Kaguya's sinful and selfish desire to control the events of the world was born Hagoromo (and Hamura - though he is a bit of a wild-card at the moment).

The Sage of Six Paths represents the six paths of Buddhism - the six phases of human suffering.

Thus begins the theme of "suffering" and "pain."

Hagoromo sets in motion a plan to end human suffering. But for that to happen - Kaguya must be removed from the picture. Using his unique powers born to combat human suffering - he attempts to remove Kaguya's compassion for the world so that she can continue where she should.

The attempt backfires, and Kaguya becomes a demon bent on autocratic totalitarian rule.

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Note who is telling the story, here.

Kaguya pursues Infinite Tsukuyomi as a solution to ending the growing discomfort with her power. During the war, she is sealed by a joint task force of Uzumaki sages and Hyuuga (likely a name for a class of Ototsuki warriors or a name assigned to those left behind to safeguard the compassion of Kaguya that had been sealed away) in a process involving the Holy Tree. This is the origin of the Eight Trigrams Seal, the Hyuuga's Caged Bird Seal, and the Dead Demon Consuming Seal - which calls upon the essence of Kaguya to seal away the chakra of those targeted by the Uzumaki.

From this, the Juubi is unwittingly born. Kaguya's will is strong enough to twist and distort the power of the Holy Tree into seeking its chakra fruit.

The Juubi is then sealed by Hagoromo and Hamura.

It is claimed that Black Zetsu was a product of Kaguya's will by Zetsu - but I call attention to this:

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Note the concentric circles denoting the Sage of Six Paths.

The Sage originally developed this method to subvert the will of people. Why? Because his solution is that of subversion. His is the Outer Path - the unnatural path - the path that rejects the natural order.

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"There is a saying in Mahayana Buddhism: "Those who have precepts to break are bodhisattvas; those who have no precepts to break are outer-path followers." Many Buddhists know that receiving the bodhisattva precepts generates great merit, yet they believe this without a real understanding of the profound meaning of the precepts, or of what keeping these precepts entails. "

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GE means outside of, off. DO means bodhi, the buddha's enlightenment, the buddha's truth; again, DO means the way. MA means demon. TO means group.

Ge Do Ma Zo (Zo means "sculpture").

The Sculpture of Demonic Misguidance.

The Sage of Six Paths is Joken Gedo -

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; idealism.

"Therefore in Buddhism, for example, Master Bokuzan Nishi-ari (1821-1910), a former Abbot of Soji-ji Temple, said in his book, entitled "Shobogenzo Keiteki, or Opening the truth of Shobogenzo," that "Materialism (Danken-Gedo) and Idealism (Joken-Gedo) are enemies against Buddhism." "

The Sage has constantly endeavored to alter the universe to fit his idealism and continually broken the Precepts of Buddhism (or simply not received them in the first place).

He left the Stone Tablet.

He divided up the tailed beasts.

He gave humans chakra.

He sealed the Juubi (and thereby Kaguya).

Then he sends his soul into the future - why? To pass along his powers and convince Sasuke that sealing Kaguya was a good idea (since he suddenly seems to be an expert on Kaguya - makes you wonder what the Sage's conversation with him was about).

Black Zetsu was most likely a creation of Hagoromo, not of Kaguya (whether or not Black Zetsu realizes this is another issue).

Black Zetsu most likely orchestrated the destruction of the Uzumaki, since their techniques were quite a hindrance to the goal of resurrecting Kaguya.

At this point - Ashura and Indra become arbitrary. Indra inherited the 'eyes' of the Juubi while Ashura inherited the 'body' of the Juubi (not the sage, who inherited/embodied the desire of his mother to bring an end to human suffering - hence the Rinnegan). Hence, we get the Rinnegan and the Wood Style, respectively.

To understand the role of the Sage, I reference two particular pages of interest:

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There are many similarities between the Taoist sage and the Buddhist Sage.

"What is the image of the ideal person, the sage (sheng ren), the real person (zhen ren) in the DDJ? Well, sages wu wei, (chs. 2, 63). In this respect, they are like newborn infants, who move naturally, without planning and reliance on the structures given to them by others (ch. 15). The DDJ tells us that sages empty themselves, becoming void of pretense. Sages concentrate their internal energies (qi). They clean their vision (ch. 10). They manifest plainness and become like uncarved wood (pu) (ch. 19). They live naturally and free from desires given by men (ch. 37) They settle themselves and know how to be content (ch. 46). The DDJ makes use of some very famous analogies to drive home its point. Sages know the value of emptiness as illustrated by how emptiness is used in a bowl, door, window, valley or canyon (ch. 11). They preserve the female (yin), meaning that they know how to be receptive and are not unbalanced favoring assertion and action (yang) (ch. 28). They shoulder yin and embrace yang, blend internal energies (qi) and thereby attain harmony (he) (ch. 42). Those following the dao do not strive, tamper, or seek control (ch. 64). They do not endeavor to help life along (ch. 55), or use their heart-mind (xin) to “solve” or “figure out” life’s apparent knots and entanglements (ch. 55). Indeed, the DDJ cautions that those who would try to do something with the world will fail, they will actually ruin it (ch. 29). Sages do not engage in disputes and arguing, or try to prove their point (chs. 22, 81). They are pliable and supple, not rigid and resistive (chs. 76, 78). They are like water (ch. 8), finding their own place, overcoming the hard and strong by suppleness (ch. 36). Sages act with no expectation of reward (chs. 2, 51). They put themselves last and yet come first (ch. 7). They never make a display of themselves, (chs. 72, 22). They do not brag or boast, (chs. 22, 24) and they do not linger after their work is done (ch. 77). They leave no trace (ch. 27). Because they embody dao in practice, they have longevity (ch. 16). They create peace (ch. 32). Creatures do not harm them (chs. 50, 55). Soldiers do not kill them (ch. 50). Heaven (tian) protects the sage and the sage becomes invincible (ch. 67)."

To which, most recently, we have:

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Yeah - I started writing this before this chapter. He doesn't just send his soul into the future. The guy just can't leave things alone.

"-- "There is really no question of any responsibility because I do believe totally, without any reservation, that nothing can happen unless it is God's Will, I certainly don’t mean that in a fatalistic manner. What it means is simply that if there is something for me to do in my daily living, I shall, of course, make a decision on what to do and how to do it. Having made the decision, I shall put in my best effort to make that decision fructify. However, having done that, I know with total certainty that whatever happens, thereafter, will be put OFF MY CONTROL and will depend entirely on the Will of God. I shall be waiting comfortably without any stress and strain for the result of 'my action'. The result could be successful or not successful and, therefore, the consequences of that result would again depend entirely upon God's Will. This is what I call A HAPPENING … a result of my efforts IS in GOD’S HANDS and is HIS WILL that prevails… I am at rest …my mind is tranquil and I TRUST completely in the outcome of my actions as the consequences - good, bad or indifferent – as being God's Will and my DESTINY. There's truly no problem, no avoiding responsibility." I am in peace with myself because I tried my best and the outcome is not in my hands… as I have explained."

The Sage, tasking himself with his mother's goal of bringing peace to people, inherited a power that was not his own and has been using it tirelessly to bring about a specific outcome. As such, he is walking the outer path. He is Gedo, misguided, corrupt, and is ultimately the greatest hindrance to restoring the natural order.

Echoes of Hamura

We know little of Hamura.

However, we can surmise that Hagoromo inherited the power of the fruit and was tasked with resolving human suffering. Perhaps Hamura's section of the fruit contained a different objective. As much as humans lust for peace - they also lust for power.

The Chakra fruit of the tree was likely derived from the natural chakra in the world that the tree had absorbed. It is reasonable to assume that Hamura satisfies the human desire for power by enabling human beings to draw upon nature chakra.

"Like a sage!" - you suggest.

Yes, like a Sage - but without the training and discipline.

"But... wait...."

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Juugo - or, rather, his clan, are quite possibly descendants of Hamura.







Hints of a Grand Conspiracy

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But it goes deeper.

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Kabuto is just be-bopping along, helping Orochimaru in a plot to destroy the village - when he just -happens- to be near Hinata and her injuries act up (that the Leaf doctors couldn't heal)?

Or... perhaps this... Orochimaru character, who seems to know a lot of things, witnessed Hinata's injury and dispatched Kabuto specifically to rectify things?

But why?

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. . . Could he have known?

And what significance would Hinata play?

I defer to a thread I have already created:

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And here:

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Further, I posit that Orochimaru and Itachi were working together all along. Itachi sealed Orochimaru (rather than kill him) in a manner that Sasuke could resurrect him. Further - rather than kill Kabuto - Itachi used a technique to solidify Kabuto's identity and personality as an individual (compared to a pawn).

It is even possible that Danzo was involved in a good portion of this - if not involved, entirely. It was his fight with Sasuke, after all, that caused the light of Sasuke's eyes to fade to the extent that he would need to implant Itachi's eyes to continue (which was necessary to trigger the technique housed within Naruto by Itachi). Though that one could be a bit of an over-reach.

In the end - I surmise that Orochimaru has been a good guy the entire time. In his research, he hit upon the origins of the ninja world. When he fled the village, he inserted himself into the Akatsuki to learn more about the origins of ninja. He left not long after it was arranged to eliminate the Uchiha and for Itachi to be embedded within the Akatsuki. By this point, his research would have already been leading him to the conclusion that the Akatsuki were less knowledgeable than was useful to him, anyway - they were simply the hired muscle with a paranoid leader. That is when he would have begun touching on the properties of nature chakra, the Jugo clan and Uzumaki clan - which would have tied into his earlier work involving the cultivation of Hashirama Senju's power (Tenzo).


Return to Another Tomorrow:

Which leads us all back to the purpose of Naruto - the goal.

In the grander scheme of nature - nothing is truly unnatural nor heretical. Just as Kaguya's decisions led to the development of the Ninja world - so, too, did they solidify a destiny for the one(s) who would return it to the natural order:

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As the mutual guardians/tenants of the tree - both the Hyuuga and the Uzumaki hold the responsibility of bringing in the next natural order.

It was the Uzumaki who safeguarded the secrets of the tree, the arts of the Sage, and the art of sealing away energy. As such, they were destroyed by Black Zetsu and his plot to return Kaguya to the world.

It was the Hyuuga who safeguarded the secret of Kaguya, guarding the portion that was wrought from her being. All but the head branch have their abilities sealed away to prevent them from using the forbidden chakra and slipping down the same path as Kaguya.

This is massive - and I could conceal it within a bunch of spoiler tags - but, I think it is best presented as a contiguous piece intended to be read sequentially as opposed to picked out in chunks.

I clicked the video scrolled down and Coment.

 

[Hyuga Prodigy]

I'm speechless, this was the ultimate masterpiece theory I've read!!!

 

[ThePooka]

So the OP thinks "Sauce" is fodder to it seems.

 

[Aim64C]

I'm speechless, this was the ultimate masterpiece theory I've read!!!

While I've essentially spoiled the plot, I've been novelizing it, here:

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Except I start where I think Kishimoto started to 'crunch' his plot far too much. Shipuuden devolved into a series of expositional onslaughts delivered through monologue. A character is always telling us about history or about the past, rather than it being hinted at and explored in the plot.

It's also where many parts of the Naruto Universe seem to collapse. The village is rebuilt in almost no time at all (because Yamato spamming - where the hell was he after the Chunin Exam ambushes?) - the village somehow musters up thousands of ninja in what is assumed to be a relatively short time...

There's just so much depth that coulda-shoulda-woulda; or things that happen that should have never happened (and things that never happened that should have).

As such - I'm re-writing the entire war arc; though I'm basing the entire story around the mechanics discussed in this theory (as well as the origins it speculates).

It is only unfortunate that I caught on to Kishimoto's line of thinking far too late. It would have been awesome to have my story most of the way completed only for people who have read it to come back with: "OMGWTF" as the manga resolves a very similar back-story and set of relationships. While that is a mild amount of narcissism, there; I enjoy the 'look' of someone when you see all of the pieces click in their head.

Which is why I am trying to disperse the history throughout the story as opposed to just delivering it from yet another bad guy who decides to tell us his life's story in the midst of trying to kill everyone. It gets annoying when the only people who seem to know what is going on are the bad guys. While they may not have all of the pieces of the puzzle - they should have enough to guess at the blanks or realize when something the bad guys are doing would fit the blanks they have.

"Well, I guess since I'm about to kill you - I'll tell you the truth about everything."

"Wait... why should I believe you?"

"Because telling you a lie won't change the fact that you're about to die."

"Well that's just dumb. Are you sure you really know what you're talking about?"

"It's not dumb. I'm me. Of course I know what I'm talking about."

"Okay... hey - what's that black thing doing behind you?"

"What black-OHSHITMYHEART!"

"Now that I've taken him over, allow -me- to tell you what really happened."

". . . Yeah... Imma punch you really hard, 'kay?"

The sad thing is how many anime fights that applies to.

 

[Aim64C]

So the OP thinks "Sauce" is fodder to it seems.

Sort of.

Naruto will basically have two options.

Sasuke will suggest that the current world be destroyed and a new one created where the rules prevent people from experiencing the pain and unhappiness that they do in this world.

Naruto is necessary for the creative part of that idea.

This is largely why Sasuke is not concerned in the slightest with any of the people aside from Naruto.

It is highly likely that his conversation with the Sage involved a talk about how to deal with Kaguya, since he continually suggests to use Hagoromo's power to seal her (because that worked so well the first time around). It is also likely that Hagoromo suggested that the solution to peace is to create a new world, as opposed to find peace with the existing one.

Naruto's other option will be to bring about the natural order of the existing world (this would be siding with Hinata - or a Kaguya who has absorbed Hinata ... or possibly vice-versa; that is a bit of a stretch on my part - but there are enough anomalies with Hinata to lead me to step so far out on the branch that suggests she is the compassion that Hagoromo attempted to seal away). This does not necessarily mean getting rid of chakra and ninjutsu - but involves accepting that one cannot control the lives and decisions of others.

It also involves the idea that one must accept that all of life has cycles. Cycles of contentment, hunger, feeding, working; injury, recovery; etc. Just because you are hungry does not mean you must be miserable - that you must be in emotional pain and suffering. Just because you have lost someone close to you does not mean that you must suffer. You accept the experience of life and move through the cycles as they come - you do what you can, when you can, and do not try to go against the natural order.

And you try to teach others how to do the same.

The problem was that Hagoromo's solution hinged on everyone obtaining peace. He required that everyone comply with his ideal of the world. That ultimately meant it would fail - even if it was well intentioned (though it was horribly foolish for such an allegedly wise man).

It was little different than Kaguya's method - although he didn't necessarily try to smash anyone who opposed him. He simply tried to subvert the natural order rather than oppress it.

As such - Sasuke is not entirely out of the picture or entirely irrelevant.... but in order for the plot to reach its natural conclusion, he and Naruto will fight and Naruto will win. Quite possibly after getting a wake-up call from Hinata (since she's been thematically nudging him along the right path since the Chunin exams - I would go so far as to say she's a master of Wei Wu Wei - though I don't know if Kishimoto even realizes that's how he's written her character).

But, yeah, at this point, Sasuke's character simply represents an obstruction to the end goal of the plot. He's effectively a speed-bump that will be dealt with at some point in time.

He may get a role in doing something to Kaguya or perhaps he will redeem himself against the Sage of Six Paths (since he's decided to stick his nose in yet again - the least he could do is stick around long enough to get a punch in the nose or a chidori through the heart). But, realistically, he's being set up as the final obstacle.

Remember that the Elder Toad never did finish Naruto's prophecy - he merely mentioned a fight against a man with powerful eyes before interrupting himself to comment at Naruto's expression:

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Now, it's possible that the prophecy could have been in regards to Nagato. It could also have been in regards to Madara (though more unlikely) - or even Obito (who has the unique ability to use Kamui, it would seem). Of course - it could also be the obvious mention of Sasuke.

But there was more to the prophecy that the elder toad conveniently forgot to tell Naruto (or us).

 

[Mr SwizZz]

I read all of it. Interesting read and time well spent.
But I dont agree with Itachi/Orochimaru tag team. I just dont see it. Especially Danzo being part of it =D

Otherwise interesting read indeed

off topic

L.E.: The symbols in "fig 1" from taiji part look like the symbols on south korean flag ? xD

LE added picz

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

After staring at the flag i noticed it even has the yin/yang circle in the middle

--
Heaven, Water, Earth, Fire
xD

 

[ssjelf]

Interesting but a few things first. I really don't think the Uzumaki are that important. I have never bought into that lin of thinking and I believe it is says simple as what Kishi has previously written. That being that the Uzumaki are relatives of the senju, like a branch off the senju in a way. Them predating the senju doesn't make sense to me. I do believe though that perhaps the hyuuga came from hamura.

Secondly I do not think the sage is evil or has bad intentions. i will not argue this, I really don't feel like it.

Third, That final panel that you showed is actually kinda saying the opposite of what you are saying. From what I understand you are saying that naruto and Hinata are gonna bring in a new age to the Narutoverse. In that panel naruto is saying that he disagrees with neji. Neji believes that naruto and Hinata have the same destiny, but Naruto is saying to stop trying to predict the future with that Byakugan of yours. Neji says "prove that you are right", and Naruto beats him. In a way this is even saying that naruto has no set destiny, he does what he choses to do. Perhaps Kishi changed his mind with the whole child of prophecy thing. I think it would fit better with Naruto if he wasn't though. If instead he was a random ninja who just does what he can.

Fourth I really can't say for sure just how much Kishi takes religion into account. but it isn't a religious manga. I think as time goes on he finds things he can use and uses them, and we here at the base create this huge universe based on the religions he used. I don't think he means for some of these questions to be solved and I don't think that assume Kishi is playing by the rules of a religion and use outside knowledge and try to apply it to Naruto. At least, not too much. I think these things are really just nods to something that people who are familiar with the subject may say "oh hey thats cool, Kishi has an interest in that subject as well." This isn't hate for extrapolating info, its just that this isnt a retelling of some religious story and Kishi doesn't have to follow its rules.

Fifth, Anything Madara said in regard to the origin of Kaguya is to be doubted. This is because he can only have gotten the info from the Tablet Hagoromo left which we know was altered by BZ. The manga has also said the the tree and Kaguya were one and the same. Not only was Kaguya in the tree when madara absorbed it ,but BZ also says that the tree and Kaguya were the entitiy known as the juubi. IDK if this is because she ate the fruit or she was it originally, but either way it is questionable and perhaps her sons were not from a human father but perhaps from the merging of the fruit and Kaguya. This may explain why she was unhappy with having to share the chakra, maybe later in life she grew to resent her children for stealing from her. The power twisted her mind and she sought to get chakra back. I find it unlikely that she fell in love with a human, what did she kill him too?

Finally, dont throw Sasuke under the bus. His role isn't over yet, he still has a role to play, outside of defeating Kaguya even. I mean he still has a huge conflict to settle with Naruto and we still don't know what he is thinking exactly. Even Kakashi was questioning his motives. Sasuke hasn't made a decision yet, but I feel that depending on what his decision is, the ending of the manag could be very different. And I don't mean that one or another will be better, but only that Sasuke still will have a big impact on the ending decision even if I don't know what impact he will have on an ending I am unsure of.

All that being said, I do find your depth of religious research to be impressive. I also agree that some of these coincidences in the Manga may not be coincidences, but I also know that sometimes an author just puts something in because it helps progress the story at the time, not because it will mean anything later. Just because a panel may suggest something, doesn't mean what is suggested exists, even if you feel it should or shouldn't.

 

[Frikid]

i will edit this after reading the whole thing

Edit :
So in short you are saying :

1. Uzumaki and otsosuki are ancient clans who existed from the times of god tree.
Uzumaki focus in sealing the sage powers while otsosuki in using them for power.

2. Kaguya otsosuki got annoyed with all the wars and ate the fruit to put an end to the war.
She married a uzumaki and hago and hamu were born.
You claim hagoromo was evil and he along with otsosuki and uzumaki clan sealed kaguya in such a way that techniques like Reaper Death seal and Hyuuga 's Curse seal were born.
The remnant of kaguya was what now we know as the juubi.
And she ended up sealed by his own sons.

Ok...

3. Orochimaru knows about the origins of shinobi.
His research helped him know about hyuuga and otsosuki and this is why he asked kabuto to heal hinata?

Ok....

Then you say danzo and itachi were also involved in this and itachi and orochimaru were good friends...

Ok....

MY opinion :
Cool story bro, but this is fanfiction at best.
Hypothetically, if we were to believe this theory is true, it would destroy the reputation of many characters and send the manga into an inescapable plothole .

I have rep you for effort but this theory is wrong in so many terms, not to mention it is bound on too many assumptions and most of them contradicts the words/actions of many characters.

But i really respect you for your hard work, not every theory comes true but it definitely gives birth to so many possibilities.

 

[Aim64C]

I read all of it. Interesting read and time well spent.
But I dont agree with Itachi/Orochimaru tag team. I just dont see it. Especially Danzo being part of it =D

That one is a bit of a stretch. Perhaps it was not a 'planned' conspiracy - but a more generalized understanding amongst the three.

We know that Itachi was a good guy. But let's take a look at Orochimaru. He guided the Sand and Leaf into an alliance; or made that alliance possible. He took a village that was chaotic and on the verge of war, anyway, and convinced them to go to war on his terms and according to his plan (which failed - spare for the assassination of the Third - which could have easily been an underhanded plot by Danzo, who later agreed to allowing Tsunade to be the Hokage.) He granted Sasuke the ability to use Nature Chakra (which is pretty much about the only thing that makes him combat relevant at this point).

The battle at Tenchi Bridge was fought largely because Naruto went ape-shit. Orochimaru was just there because it provided an opportunity to get a direct intel drop from Danzo. Which is what we saw transpire.

Most puzzlingly - Orochimaru knew his attempt to take over Sasuke would fail. Even if we take Orochimaru's actions at face value - his attempt to take over Itachi failed simply because Itachi had the Sharingan. Yet, Orochimaru goes for it, anyway.

When Itachi saw Sasuke's course of action, he drew Orochimaru out of Sasuke and sealed him. Why?

Sure, it was a quick way of 'ending' the problem... but if we look at it from another perspective - would the Akatsuki have required the same - only killed Orochimaru? Or, rather - Madara? Itachi knew that Madara (or Obito) would approach Sasuke - hence the implanting of Amaterasu in his eye triggered to go off when he saw Tobi. By sealing Orochimaru - Orochimaru was protected from harm yet could still be brought back when he was needed.

And he was needed.

Danzo's confrontation with Sasuke is largely what drove his eyes to blindness, as well - which was necessary for him to be susceptible to the technique implanted in Naruto. It seemed evident from Danzo's actions and statements that he knew, going in, that it would be a suicide mission. I would even go so far as to say that he had an operative in place to ensure Tsunade stayed comatose until the Kage Summit was over, simply because Danzo was highly certain Sasuke would make an attempt on the Hokage at the summit. Thus, he was actually acting to protect Tsunade and take the risk of fighting Sasuke on, himself.

But that is the influence of far too many Tom Clancy novels working on me. Even if these were parts of Kishimoto's thinking - I highly doubt most of the 'conspiracy' I allege would be revealed. At best, we can expect further elaboration upon Orochimaru, how much he knew, and when.

Otherwise interesting read indeed

off topic

L.E.: The symbols in "fig 1" from taiji part look like the symbols on south korean flag ? xD

LE added picz

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

After staring at the flag i noticed it even has the yin/yang circle in the middle

--
Heaven, Water, Earth, Fire
xD

Yes, many of the flags in that region have the Bagua or some depiction of Yin/Yang on them.

That is part of the context of Naruto that is lost on us. Much of the stuff in this thread is relatively common knowledge in Asia. I may have gone a bit deeper than the 'common knowledge' - but many of the names used in this series would cause Asians to go "Yeah, I remember that story from school!" - or "Hey, I remember that symbol and that symbol are related!"

Which is why quite a few people seem to think this line of research is such a huge stretch (or start looking at viking lore, something they may be familiar with - but not something an anime would include on a tangent).

Interesting but a few things first. I really don't think the Uzumaki are that important. I have never bought into that lin of thinking and I believe it is says simple as what Kishi has previously written. That being that the Uzumaki are relatives of the senju, like a branch off the senju in a way. Them predating the senju doesn't make sense to me. I do believe though that perhaps the hyuuga came from hamura.

The Uzumaki not important?

They were only the people who developed the seal that made the series possible.

And their village was wiped out because their sealing techniques were so powerful that the nations feared them, apparently, more than each other.

It also does not contradict what is written. The Uzumaki and the Ototsuki came together. From that union came Hagoromo and Hamura. Both sons inherited the goals/desires of their mother. Hagoromo embodied her desire to see people achieve peace and understanding - hence the rinnegan was -created- as a manifestation of the power to make that happen. Hamura embodied her desire to see people empowered to overcome their struggles. Hence, passed on to him was the power to absorb nature chakra, much like the Holy Tree, without having to learn the arts of the Sage (who, at the time would not have needed to absorb nature energy - only harness its flow; they likely enveloped themselves in a swirling mass of chakra that resembled an animal form).

The Senju and Uchiha were a product of Hagoromo's meddling. After sealing the Juubi - the Uchiha inherited the power of the Juubi's eye while the Senju inherited the power of the Juubi's body (the wood style).

All of the techniques that we see the Uzumaki use are decidedly pre-ninjutsu. The color of the Sage's hair is shown as a chalky red. If we assume Kaguya's hair color is a crystal white - it fits.

Secondly I do not think the sage is evil or has bad intentions. i will not argue this, I really don't feel like it.

Evil in a Taoist and Buddhist sense does not necessarily mean malicious. It means acting against the natural order. Though Buddhism has a more firmly outlined set of guidelines, or precepts. Itachi put it very well, though:

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That is the definition of one who is "evil" within Taoism and Buddhism. No matter how well-intentioned they may be, they are ultimately going to end up doing the opposite of what they strive to achieve.

Third, That final panel that you showed is actually kinda saying the opposite of what you are saying. From what I understand you are saying that naruto and Hinata are gonna bring in a new age to the Narutoverse. In that panel naruto is saying that he disagrees with neji. Neji believes that naruto and Hinata have the same destiny, but Naruto is saying to stop trying to predict the future with that Byakugan of yours. Neji says "prove that you are right", and Naruto beats him. In a way this is even saying that naruto has no set destiny, he does what he choses to do. Perhaps Kishi changed his mind with the whole child of prophecy thing. I think it would fit better with Naruto if he wasn't though. If instead he was a random ninja who just does what he can.

All it actually does is further reinforce the concept of destiny.

Take that old discussion and comment about Naruto and Hinata sharing the same destiny, and apply it to this:

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This falls in line with Taoist concepts of destiny.

Neji was destined to die protecting Hinata.

Neji was correct. Naruto shared the same destiny as Hinata. He assumed that it meant Naruto would be defeated by him - but this was a very narrow and conceited observation on his part.

Naruto didn't overcome his destiny. No one overcomes their destiny. One can only make peace with their destiny and how they justify their fulfillment of it. In some cases - it is believed that you do actually have a choice in the matter - but even then, you ultimately are fated to be presented with the choice (and therefor your fate is to make a choice - even if that choice is not predetermined).

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"In all 3 books (TaoTeChing, ChuangTzu, LiehTzu), spontaneous destiny is the mission of life, which one may or may not live long enough to complete. In all 3 books, destiny is absolute, but in the Lieh Tzu, it seems possible to act against destiny with consequences. Hence, for LiehTzu, it may be important to locate a signpost of one’s destiny so as to be sure that one is on course to complete a life’s mission, and if one is not on the best course, to determine how to effect a course change. A road amp of one’s destiny would seem to counter spontaneity, but a signpost would be merely an affirmation for those who have not been able to roam what ChuangTzu would call a life of “free and easy wandering”.

To discuss the notion of a “course correction” in life entails all kinds of risks in a classical Taoist world. The 3 masters would vehemently turn their disciples back from such an endeavor. Yet all 3 masters hint at situations where course corrections are possible and divination an acceptable tool to formulate a course correction. In fact, the purpose of all 3 books is to give advice. The TaoTeChing condemns foreknowledge as “the beginning of folly” (TTC ch. 38, Lau), but also says that the sage “may know the whole world” without venturing outside, knows without stirring, identifies without looking and accomplishes without doing (TTC ch. 47, Lau). The ChuangTzu warns that fortune tellers may not comprehend fully what they divine. (ChuangTzu ch. 24. Watson, p. 234.) The LiehTzu suggests that [w]hen judgement and verification are both plain, refusing to act on them is like refusing to go by the door when you leave or follow the path when you walk. (LiehTzu, Graham, p. 159).

The Taoist principle of Wu-Wei transcends free will (nothing is done yet nothing is left undone, TTC ch. 38), and the ChuangTzu questions whether one can ever be sure to distinguish human agency from heaven agency in Man (is the doer the man or heaven, ChuangTzu ch. 6). Therefore, one could say that seeking to align one’s destiny in the world harmonizes with Tao. Responsive meditation (such as a mirror-mind meditation) can help train someone to be spontaneous and sensitive to the Tao currents, but divination may also work to locate signposts in one’s destiny. The classic texts don’t delve into the specifics of divination (several popular forms of prognostication were practiced during the Warring States Period of China and the time of Lao Tzu), so I turn to other Taoists of the period and their understanding of prognostication systems. In Chinese astrology (dating to before 1000 B.C.) whether and how one fulfills one’s destiny is a matter of luck (Heaven, Earth, Human), contingencies and chance. Of the 3 kinds of luck, Man has influence over Earth and Human luck by selecting and rearranging living environments and by one’s deeds and actions. (Wu, Shelley, Chinese Astrology: Exploring The Eastern Zodiac, p. 14.) "

Even the Taoist masters of legend had difficulty placing the concept of destiny into words and human description.

To understand it - we have to go back to the principle of Taiji and Wuji - how they work together to create the universe.

Taiji is the divine light - the divine inspiration - energy, guidance, etc. It gives form to the infinite nothing. If a drop of water hits a pool of water - ripples wash out from it. While I can choose where that drop of water hits - I cannot change what the drop of water will do to the surface of the pool.

Ultimately, this is the goal of the Taoist concept of internal Alchemy - producing the Golden Flower, the Golden Elixir, or the Elixir of Life. With the elixir of life - obtained through internal or external Taoist alchemy (though no one has been successful at producing the external variety that we know of - outside of the legend of the Bamboo Cutter with Kaguya) - one gains divine insight - or Taiji. Through true Yang, one experiences the state of doing nothing. At that point - one can truly act upon the Tao and create outside of destiny.

Basically, you get to choose how to throw the next drop of water into the pool.

That is what Kaguya did beforehand.

Following that - Naruto has a role to play in the destiny that another 'divine light' will arise and will be used to create. So, in a sense - once his destiny is fulfilled, he will have satisfied both the argument that he is the child of prophecy and destined to act; and his own promise to be the one to overturn -that- destiny.

Fourth I really can't say for sure just how much Kishi takes religion into account. but it isn't a religious manga. I think as time goes on he finds things he can use and uses them, and we here at the base create this huge universe based on the religions he used. I don't think he means for some of these questions to be solved and I don't think that assume Kishi is playing by the rules of a religion and use outside knowledge and try to apply it to Naruto. At least, not too much. I think these things are really just nods to something that people who are familiar with the subject may say "oh hey thats cool, Kishi has an interest in that subject as well." This isn't hate for extrapolating info, its just that this isnt a retelling of some religious story and Kishi doesn't have to follow its rules.

Nods are characters like Orochimaru, Tsunade, and Jiraiya - taking from the novel of Princess Tsunade. Or the fact that Naruto is a component of Ramen.

Further - these aren't really religions. Taoism is a philosophy and Shintoism is almost more of a culture in this day and age.

[video=youtube;cK3NMZAUKGw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK3NMZAUKGw[/video]

The closest one to a religion is Buddhism (rinnegan) - and Kishimoto portrays that as primarily destructive.

Also keep in mind that Manga, in Japan, is a little bit different compared to western cartoons. Western cartoons are designed to be pithy and purely for entertainment.

Manga is culturally more of an art form and tends to touch on and address real topics and issues. It's a combination of literary and artistic expression. This goes back to the days when the Taoists were drawing pictures of how a beautiful woman would decay into skeletal remains or in Shintoism where animals were often used to convey symbolic relationships of nature to address complex issues.

Fifth, Anything Madara said in regard to the origin of Kaguya is to be doubted. This is because he can only have gotten the info from the Tablet Hagoromo left which we know was altered by BZ. The manga has also said the the tree and Kaguya were one and the same. Not only was Kaguya in the tree when madara absorbed it ,but BZ also says that the tree and Kaguya were the entitiy known as the juubi. IDK if this is because she ate the fruit or she was it originally, but either way it is questionable and perhaps her sons were not from a human father but perhaps from the merging of the fruit and Kaguya. This may explain why she was unhappy with having to share the chakra, maybe later in life she grew to resent her children for stealing from her. The power twisted her mind and she sought to get chakra back. I find it unlikely that she fell in love with a human, what did she kill him too?

There is the remote possibility that Kaguya is a product of the tree.

However, remember that much of the story of Kaguya came from the Sage. The Sage is smart enough not to lie - he simply avoids the pertinent questions - such as where Kaguya came from and what happened to her. Some rather important questions that, if answered, would likely give Naruto the ability to Talk-no-Jutsu Kaguya or otherwise convince him that the best course of action is not to seal her away. Think about how out of character Naruto is acting. "Yep, let's seal this human being away. Not even going to ask her what the **** her problem is."

If he knew what her problem was - he'd want to solve it. And that isn't conducive to the Sage's plan.

Anyway - she came from a faraway land and descends from a clan. If she came from a tree - we have to double-back on that.

I actually explained all of this, already.

Anyway - Kaguya fell in love with the planet, and likely an Uzumaki tenant of the tree.

She decided to gift her children with the power of the fruit. It wasn't involuntarily taken from her. Even without the fruit - she was immensely powerful (as I've stated before - if the Byakugan is followed through to its natural conclusion - the highest mastery of it effectively becomes the force of nature, itself).

Hagoromo, gifted with the power of the Rinnegan and the understanding of human cycles of suffering - notices that Kaguya is suffering. And, like anyone with unique powers and abilities - he takes it upon himself to free her of the love and compassion that is binding her to the world (when she should have departed with the fruit's power, per custom).

But that backfired when she became a tyrant who just began controlling the world.

This is where the Uzumaki come into play. They rose up against Kaguya, likely supported by a detachment of Ototsuki warriors (who would remain behind to guard Kaguya's compassion as the Hyuuga). Kaguya began Infinite Tsukuyomi to solidify control and also to raise an army to assist in fighting off a larger contingent of Ototsuki warriors who would, no doubt, follow.

The Uzumaki worked with the Ototsuki/Hyuuga to devise a seal - and bound Kaguya to the Holy Tree (it was likely her lover who gave up his life to accomplish this - as, no doubt, he would have been one of the strongest among the Uzumaki) and also divided a portion of her away to create the Dead Demon Consuming Seal.

But Kaguya's will was not so easy to contain.

Her lust for power merged with the Juubi's nature to absorb energy and spawned the Juubi. The Juubi's goal was to retake the fruit using the power of Holy Tree (as well as some influence from Kaguya - such as the Juubi's eye).

It is also possible that the Infinite Tsukuyomi did not occur until the Juubi phase - and it was the Juubi who used it.

Although this is a bit of a question - since, reflected in the eyes of the people affected by Infinite Tsukuyomi was the Rinnegan - the six paths or six states of reincarnation within Buddhism (which relate to the idea of Karma and the goal of overcoming human suffering - which means Tsukuyomi was somehow acting on the desire to escape suffering).

Anyway - Hagoromo and Hamura then sealed the Juubi - which is partially why Kaguya is so pissed right now. For starters - she isn't entirely Kaguya. She is both the Juubi and portions of Kaguya brought by Black Zetsu (who Kaguya does not seem to acknowledge in the slightest). So she's just a wreck of a being at this point in time.

Finally, dont throw Sasuke under the bus. His role isn't over yet, he still has a role to play, outside of defeating Kaguya even. I mean he still has a huge conflict to settle with Naruto and we still don't know what he is thinking exactly. Even Kakashi was questioning his motives. Sasuke hasn't made a decision yet, but I feel that depending on what his decision is, the ending of the manag could be very different. And I don't mean that one or another will be better, but only that Sasuke still will have a big impact on the ending decision even if I don't know what impact he will have on an ending I am unsure of.

Sasuke is a speed bump in the plot.

I made a post on this, earlier, already.

Basically, Sasuke has two options. Agree with Naruto - or get steam-rolled.

His role regarding Kaguya is arbitrary.

He has already made his decision, though. His decision is to destroy the current world and create a new one that abides by rules where there will be no suffering. That is why he is showing no compassion or concern for anyone other than Naruto.

Naruto is necessary to seal away Kaguya and for him (or both of them) to gain the power to create a new world.

That is why I say he is a speed-bump to the plot. We already know that is not going to happen. We already know that Kaguya is not going to be sealed without telling her story (which will inspire Naruto to a completely different line of action).

With Sasuke gone - the Juubi's curse is almost entirely erased (spare for Tsunade - who will have no descendants). There is only Hagoromo left to deal with (in terms of the curse).

All that being said, I do find your depth of religious research to be impressive. I also agree that some of these coincidences in the Manga may not be coincidences, but I also know that sometimes an author just puts something in because it helps progress the story at the time, not because it will mean anything later. Just because a panel may suggest something, doesn't mean what is suggested exists, even if you feel it should or shouldn't.

Time will tell.

 

[altaire uchiha]

After reading one sentence and standing in awe of the lack of a life you have to have to do this, I conclude: you need to get your ass out of the house. Seriously. Rather than read your guess about what Kishis going to write Im gonna just read what Kishi decides to write.

 

[Aim64C]

After reading one sentence and standing in awe of the lack of a life you have to have to do this, I conclude: you need to get your ass out of the house. Seriously. Rather than read your guess about what Kishis going to write Im gonna just read what Kishi decides to write.

*sigh*

No, no.

What you will do is decide that it is a waste of one's life to analyze the works of another human being and decide to dedicate portions of your life to commenting on how silly such a waste of life is.

I'm not going to tell you what is a waste of your life; but I do think, given the options an individual of your caliber has, that this was a relatively weak display of your potential.

 

[PIOLO]

I am not giving this discussion a prefix as it extends beyond the prefixes.

This is the ultimate theory of Naruto and thereby the ultimate theory of Kishimoto. With it, nearly everything can be explained and nearly every overture in the plot can be predicted. Some individual details and character actions are nearly impossible to predict - but the overall course of the plot falls in line nicely.

But we need some epic music to fitting animations, so your trip here wasn't in vain:

[video=youtube;WU7SGn0MeP0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU7SGn0MeP0[/video]

We must first start at the beginning. Not at where various characters think the story began - but at the very beginning.

In the beginning, there was the endless expanse of nothing. Upon it shined the light of infinite potential, and from these two forces, symbolized by light and dark, the universe was born amidst the swirling tides of change.

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"The fundamental postulate is the "great primal beginning" of all that exists, t'ai chi – in its original meaning, the "ridgepole". Later Indian philosophers devoted much thought to this idea of a primal beginning. A still earlier beginning, wu chi, was represented by the symbol of a circle. Under this conception, t'ai chi was represented by the circle divided into the light and the dark, yang and yin, Yin yang.svg. This symbol has also played a significant part in India and Europe. However, speculations of a Gnostic-dualistic character are foreign to the original thought of the I Ching; what it posits is simply the ridgepole, the line. With this line, which in itself represents oneness, duality comes into the world, for the line at the same time posits an above and a below, a right and left, front and back – in a word, the world of the opposites. (1967:lv)"

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"Thus, the Taoist cosmos consists of 2 main parts: Wu-ji Non-Being) and Tai-ji (Being). In the depiction above, the Wu-ji surrounds the Taiji, smaller than the Wuji by definition (Tai-ji literally means “with limit”; Wu-ji “without limit”). Together, they function as a single entity, operating through a loosely-coupled resonance (ganying 感应) relationship, in which the Tai-ji senses the Wu-ji and moves in sympathy, spontaneously (自然 ziran) and without deliberate action (wu-wei 無為). (See TTC ch. 25 and ChuangTzu ch. 7 – Mair, Wandering On The Way, p. 71: “The mind of the ultimate man functions like a mirror… it responds (ying) but does not retain”.) Due to the symbiotic relationship between wu and you, when the classic texts (TaoTeChing, ChuangTzu and LiehTzu) refer to Tao, Tao can be either Wu-ji or Tai-ji or both. "

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"The Tai-ji embodies an expanding universe, because the energy field spins out oscillating in a spiral motion. From the TTC ch. 40, the motion of Tao is reversion or returning (反 fan) and from TTC ch. 25, the path of motion is circular. The character fan is drawn to suggest a turning around or flipping over. The original form of the Chinese character for returning (回 or “hui”) has its own origin in a spiral shape, so the movement of the Taiji traces a concentric coil that expands outward in one direction, contracts to unity in the other. (Sze, Mai Mai, The Tao Of Painting, New York: Pantheon Books, c. 1963, p. 16.) "

From this action of Taiji and Wuiji, we see the development of the Four Images; Great Yin, Great Yang, Minor Yin, Minor Yang. These four interact to produce the Bagua - or Eight Trigrams.

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The Five Elements are also depicted and are often placed as being the forces that give rise to the Four Images (though this depends upon which era of Taoism we are discussing).

Some depictions show this:

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It is important to understand this concept and relationship, as it expresses itself all throughout the Naruto Universe, as the real story has yet to surface.

Hints of the Truth:

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This is literally the key to the series.

The spiral motion of the Taijitu giving rise to the radiance of the Four Images that in turn produce the Eight Bagua. According to the Postnatal Heaven arrangement of bagua, the 'missing' element is thunder:

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Which is frequently denoted as being the phase of division. Which would make sense - seeing as the 'key' is supposed to alter the division of forces (though this could be an over-reach).

But the real key is the square in the upper left hand corner.

Here we enter into the world of Japanese Taoism as it merged with Shintoism.

The square is the symbol for the Sun and its goddess, Amaterasu.

The circle is the symbol for the Moon and its god, Tsukuyomi.

The triangle is the symbol for the stars and their god, Susano'o.

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"The Sun (Amaterasu, represented by the square), symbolizes our inner light, and rules the day, the state of Divine Presence. When presence is absent, the moon gives light, and rules the night, the state of sleep , in which man spends most of his days. The moon (Tsukuyomi no Mikoto, represented by the circle) symbolizes our ruling faculty or the mind, which Gurdjieff called the steward. It tries to bring us back to the state of presence. Gurdjieff spoke about creating moon in oneself, which means creating a steward, or a faculty in oneself that keeps reminding one to not sleep, but to be present.
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In ancient times, the stars were the main means of navigation at sea during the night. Stars (Susano-no-Mikoto, represented by the triangle) symbolize reminders to awaken the God within. When one is submerged in daily activities, one suddenly realizes that one is asleep, and one tells oneself to Be (present). Stars are small sparks of light in the darkness (the state of psychological sleep that we spend most of our waking hours in) that guide us to our destination, the present moment."

Which is a damned good explanation for Infinite Tsukuyomi and provides some interesting insight on how Kishimoto may go about breaking it.

If this does not grab your attention, I really do not know what will.

Obviously, the spiral has been seen elsewhere:

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The Uzumaki represent Taiji.

But who were the Uzumaki?

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"The first known mention of tree spirits is in Japan’s oldest known book, the Kojiki (Record of Thing’s Past) that talks about the tree god Wakunochi-no-kami, second born of the godling brood of Izanagi and Izanami."

If the Juubi or the Holy Tree is to have a name - it will quite possibly be known as Wakunochi. (If Naruto learned the name of the nine tailed beasts - why not the ten tailed one?)

But about the Uzumaki:

"In Aogashima, Izu Islands, people place small shrines at the base of cryptomeria (Japanese cedar) trees and still worship and pray to them. This is said to be the remainders of a nature-worshiping religion that once dominated."

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The Uzumaki were the original tenants of the Holy Tree.

They observed its adsorption of natural chakra and from these observations developed seals and rituals that harnessed the flow of natural chakra currents like the Holy Tree. I would wager that the most advanced and developed among all of them would have developed a form similar to 'Sage Mode.'

These were the sages of the natural order. For humans to seek the power of the fruit would be a breach of the natural order.

Enter the Ototosuki - the embodiment of Wuji - the endless nothing, or the endless yet-to-be.

It is the duty of the Ototsuki to select among them a member to consume the fruit and ascend to the realm of the gods. This ancient arrangement has existed since time began - the Ototsuki and Uzumaki acting in concert to preserve the harmony of energy within the universe.

Except Kaguya broke from tradition. Kaguya noticed the sorrow and the struggle of the people:

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Birth of A New Philosophy

She fell in love with the world and saw fit to involve herself in the world. Further, she fell in love (most probably with an Uzumaki) and bore two sons. Between them, she divided the power of the fruit.

From this, we get Rikodu - Hagoromo - the Sage of Six Paths; embodiment of Buddhism and the philosophy of ending human suffering.

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"As the day of her return approached, the Emperor set many guards around her house to protect her from the Moon people, but when an embassy of "Heavenly Beings" arrived at the door of Taketori no Okina's house, the guards were blinded by a strange light. Kaguya-hime announced that, though she loved her many friends on Earth, she must return with the Moon people to her true home. She wrote sad notes of apology to her parents and to the Emperor, then gave her parents her own robe as a memento. She then took a small taste of the elixir of life, attached it to her letter to the Emperor, and gave it to a guard officer. As she handed it to him, the feather robe was placed on her shoulders, and all of her sadness and compassion for the people of the Earth were forgotten. The heavenly entourage took Kaguya-hime back to Tsuki-no-Miyako ("the Capital of the Moon"), leaving her earthly foster parents in tears."

A feathered robe is called a Hagoromo.

Which is frequently worn by Tennin - the equivalent of Buddhist Angels in Japan:

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"Tennin (天人), which may include tenshi (天使), ten no tsukai (天の使い, lit. heavenly messenger) and the specifically female tennyo (天女) are spiritual beings found in Japanese Buddhism that are similar to western angels, nymphs or fairies.[citation needed] They were imported from Chinese Buddhism,[1] which was influenced itself by the concepts of heavenly beings found in Indian Buddhism and Chinese Taoism."

From Kaguya's sinful and selfish desire to control the events of the world was born Hagoromo (and Hamura - though he is a bit of a wild-card at the moment).

The Sage of Six Paths represents the six paths of Buddhism - the six phases of human suffering.

Thus begins the theme of "suffering" and "pain."

Hagoromo sets in motion a plan to end human suffering. But for that to happen - Kaguya must be removed from the picture. Using his unique powers born to combat human suffering - he attempts to remove Kaguya's compassion for the world so that she can continue where she should.

The attempt backfires, and Kaguya becomes a demon bent on autocratic totalitarian rule.

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Note who is telling the story, here.

Kaguya pursues Infinite Tsukuyomi as a solution to ending the growing discomfort with her power. During the war, she is sealed by a joint task force of Uzumaki sages and Hyuuga (likely a name for a class of Ototsuki warriors or a name assigned to those left behind to safeguard the compassion of Kaguya that had been sealed away) in a process involving the Holy Tree. This is the origin of the Eight Trigrams Seal, the Hyuuga's Caged Bird Seal, and the Dead Demon Consuming Seal - which calls upon the essence of Kaguya to seal away the chakra of those targeted by the Uzumaki.

From this, the Juubi is unwittingly born. Kaguya's will is strong enough to twist and distort the power of the Holy Tree into seeking its chakra fruit.

The Juubi is then sealed by Hagoromo and Hamura.

It is claimed that Black Zetsu was a product of Kaguya's will by Zetsu - but I call attention to this:

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Note the concentric circles denoting the Sage of Six Paths.

The Sage originally developed this method to subvert the will of people. Why? Because his solution is that of subversion. His is the Outer Path - the unnatural path - the path that rejects the natural order.

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"There is a saying in Mahayana Buddhism: "Those who have precepts to break are bodhisattvas; those who have no precepts to break are outer-path followers." Many Buddhists know that receiving the bodhisattva precepts generates great merit, yet they believe this without a real understanding of the profound meaning of the precepts, or of what keeping these precepts entails. "

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GE means outside of, off. DO means bodhi, the buddha's enlightenment, the buddha's truth; again, DO means the way. MA means demon. TO means group.

Ge Do Ma Zo (Zo means "sculpture").

The Sculpture of Demonic Misguidance.

The Sage of Six Paths is Joken Gedo -

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; idealism.

"Therefore in Buddhism, for example, Master Bokuzan Nishi-ari (1821-1910), a former Abbot of Soji-ji Temple, said in his book, entitled "Shobogenzo Keiteki, or Opening the truth of Shobogenzo," that "Materialism (Danken-Gedo) and Idealism (Joken-Gedo) are enemies against Buddhism." "

The Sage has constantly endeavored to alter the universe to fit his idealism and continually broken the Precepts of Buddhism (or simply not received them in the first place).

He left the Stone Tablet.

He divided up the tailed beasts.

He gave humans chakra.

He sealed the Juubi (and thereby Kaguya).

Then he sends his soul into the future - why? To pass along his powers and convince Sasuke that sealing Kaguya was a good idea (since he suddenly seems to be an expert on Kaguya - makes you wonder what the Sage's conversation with him was about).

Black Zetsu was most likely a creation of Hagoromo, not of Kaguya (whether or not Black Zetsu realizes this is another issue).

Black Zetsu most likely orchestrated the destruction of the Uzumaki, since their techniques were quite a hindrance to the goal of resurrecting Kaguya.

At this point - Ashura and Indra become arbitrary. Indra inherited the 'eyes' of the Juubi while Ashura inherited the 'body' of the Juubi (not the sage, who inherited/embodied the desire of his mother to bring an end to human suffering - hence the Rinnegan). Hence, we get the Rinnegan and the Wood Style, respectively.

To understand the role of the Sage, I reference two particular pages of interest:

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There are many similarities between the Taoist sage and the Buddhist Sage.

"What is the image of the ideal person, the sage (sheng ren), the real person (zhen ren) in the DDJ? Well, sages wu wei, (chs. 2, 63). In this respect, they are like newborn infants, who move naturally, without planning and reliance on the structures given to them by others (ch. 15). The DDJ tells us that sages empty themselves, becoming void of pretense. Sages concentrate their internal energies (qi). They clean their vision (ch. 10). They manifest plainness and become like uncarved wood (pu) (ch. 19). They live naturally and free from desires given by men (ch. 37) They settle themselves and know how to be content (ch. 46). The DDJ makes use of some very famous analogies to drive home its point. Sages know the value of emptiness as illustrated by how emptiness is used in a bowl, door, window, valley or canyon (ch. 11). They preserve the female (yin), meaning that they know how to be receptive and are not unbalanced favoring assertion and action (yang) (ch. 28). They shoulder yin and embrace yang, blend internal energies (qi) and thereby attain harmony (he) (ch. 42). Those following the dao do not strive, tamper, or seek control (ch. 64). They do not endeavor to help life along (ch. 55), or use their heart-mind (xin) to “solve” or “figure out” life’s apparent knots and entanglements (ch. 55). Indeed, the DDJ cautions that those who would try to do something with the world will fail, they will actually ruin it (ch. 29). Sages do not engage in disputes and arguing, or try to prove their point (chs. 22, 81). They are pliable and supple, not rigid and resistive (chs. 76, 78). They are like water (ch. 8), finding their own place, overcoming the hard and strong by suppleness (ch. 36). Sages act with no expectation of reward (chs. 2, 51). They put themselves last and yet come first (ch. 7). They never make a display of themselves, (chs. 72, 22). They do not brag or boast, (chs. 22, 24) and they do not linger after their work is done (ch. 77). They leave no trace (ch. 27). Because they embody dao in practice, they have longevity (ch. 16). They create peace (ch. 32). Creatures do not harm them (chs. 50, 55). Soldiers do not kill them (ch. 50). Heaven (tian) protects the sage and the sage becomes invincible (ch. 67)."

To which, most recently, we have:

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Yeah - I started writing this before this chapter. He doesn't just send his soul into the future. The guy just can't leave things alone.

"-- "There is really no question of any responsibility because I do believe totally, without any reservation, that nothing can happen unless it is God's Will, I certainly don’t mean that in a fatalistic manner. What it means is simply that if there is something for me to do in my daily living, I shall, of course, make a decision on what to do and how to do it. Having made the decision, I shall put in my best effort to make that decision fructify. However, having done that, I know with total certainty that whatever happens, thereafter, will be put OFF MY CONTROL and will depend entirely on the Will of God. I shall be waiting comfortably without any stress and strain for the result of 'my action'. The result could be successful or not successful and, therefore, the consequences of that result would again depend entirely upon God's Will. This is what I call A HAPPENING … a result of my efforts IS in GOD’S HANDS and is HIS WILL that prevails… I am at rest …my mind is tranquil and I TRUST completely in the outcome of my actions as the consequences - good, bad or indifferent – as being God's Will and my DESTINY. There's truly no problem, no avoiding responsibility." I am in peace with myself because I tried my best and the outcome is not in my hands… as I have explained."

The Sage, tasking himself with his mother's goal of bringing peace to people, inherited a power that was not his own and has been using it tirelessly to bring about a specific outcome. As such, he is walking the outer path. He is Gedo, misguided, corrupt, and is ultimately the greatest hindrance to restoring the natural order.

Echoes of Hamura

We know little of Hamura.

However, we can surmise that Hagoromo inherited the power of the fruit and was tasked with resolving human suffering. Perhaps Hamura's section of the fruit contained a different objective. As much as humans lust for peace - they also lust for power.

The Chakra fruit of the tree was likely derived from the natural chakra in the world that the tree had absorbed. It is reasonable to assume that Hamura satisfies the human desire for power by enabling human beings to draw upon nature chakra.

"Like a sage!" - you suggest.

Yes, like a Sage - but without the training and discipline.

"But... wait...."

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Juugo - or, rather, his clan, are quite possibly descendants of Hamura.







Hints of a Grand Conspiracy

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But it goes deeper.

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Kabuto is just be-bopping along, helping Orochimaru in a plot to destroy the village - when he just -happens- to be near Hinata and her injuries act up (that the Leaf doctors couldn't heal)?

Or... perhaps this... Orochimaru character, who seems to know a lot of things, witnessed Hinata's injury and dispatched Kabuto specifically to rectify things?

But why?

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. . . Could he have known?

And what significance would Hinata play?

I defer to a thread I have already created:

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And here:

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Further, I posit that Orochimaru and Itachi were working together all along. Itachi sealed Orochimaru (rather than kill him) in a manner that Sasuke could resurrect him. Further - rather than kill Kabuto - Itachi used a technique to solidify Kabuto's identity and personality as an individual (compared to a pawn).

It is even possible that Danzo was involved in a good portion of this - if not involved, entirely. It was his fight with Sasuke, after all, that caused the light of Sasuke's eyes to fade to the extent that he would need to implant Itachi's eyes to continue (which was necessary to trigger the technique housed within Naruto by Itachi). Though that one could be a bit of an over-reach.

In the end - I surmise that Orochimaru has been a good guy the entire time. In his research, he hit upon the origins of the ninja world. When he fled the village, he inserted himself into the Akatsuki to learn more about the origins of ninja. He left not long after it was arranged to eliminate the Uchiha and for Itachi to be embedded within the Akatsuki. By this point, his research would have already been leading him to the conclusion that the Akatsuki were less knowledgeable than was useful to him, anyway - they were simply the hired muscle with a paranoid leader. That is when he would have begun touching on the properties of nature chakra, the Jugo clan and Uzumaki clan - which would have tied into his earlier work involving the cultivation of Hashirama Senju's power (Tenzo).


Return to Another Tomorrow:

Which leads us all back to the purpose of Naruto - the goal.

In the grander scheme of nature - nothing is truly unnatural nor heretical. Just as Kaguya's decisions led to the development of the Ninja world - so, too, did they solidify a destiny for the one(s) who would return it to the natural order:

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As the mutual guardians/tenants of the tree - both the Hyuuga and the Uzumaki hold the responsibility of bringing in the next natural order.

It was the Uzumaki who safeguarded the secrets of the tree, the arts of the Sage, and the art of sealing away energy. As such, they were destroyed by Black Zetsu and his plot to return Kaguya to the world.

It was the Hyuuga who safeguarded the secret of Kaguya, guarding the portion that was wrought from her being. All but the head branch have their abilities sealed away to prevent them from using the forbidden chakra and slipping down the same path as Kaguya.

This is massive - and I could conceal it within a bunch of spoiler tags - but, I think it is best presented as a contiguous piece intended to be read sequentially as opposed to picked out in chunks.

what a flawless theory

 

[SonOfChakra]

About Black Zetsu, his advices to Kaguya is harmful. I didn't think that Zetsu, who is the Bane of the Narutoverse, planned a Mugen Tsukiyomi and manipulated Madara wouldn't figured out that Naruto in the rock dimension was the clone. He advice her to not using that dimensional jutsu because of the

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and in the 685 chapter two ninjas with over nine thousand times smaller chakras opened three times dimensions with kamui. He is definitely not the Kaguya's will.

 

[B00m]

First I'd like to thank you for your long and detailed 'mindset' of the story, along with making me further interested in the teachings of Taoism and Buddhism. Now I have a couple questions (if you don't mind).

What does the Jubi represent to you? You said that Kaguya out of her will and 'stubbornness' she was allowed to become apart of the Jubi and further live on. It is my understanding that the Jubi represents nature itself so how could one (corrupt) individual become apart of it and eventually control it and decide its direction?

Is it fair to say to say Naruto eventually needs to choose to 'befriend' the Jubi and become one with it? Seeing as the series is named after him and that's the only way for humanity to be aligned with nature and it's forces again?