Goku is more stupid?

kimb

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Goku always acted selfish and stupidly in the anime going back as far as dragon ball, and I don't see why'd they change that in super. This is the same Goku who lent Frieza his Ki after defeating him, and gave Cell a senzu bean so he could fight Gohan at full strength, and hired Hit to assassinate him (and Hit technically succeeded). People really need to go back and watch DBZ episode by episode, because it there isn't as huge of a change in Goku or the canonical story progression between DBZ and DBS as your nostalgia is leading you believe.
 
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kimb

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Goku in Super lack compassion beside become total brain dead. The trait that he never showed in DBZ
Compassion, empathy, and passion are things Goku has always struggled with as a character, so the moments he does show these emotions are hard to come by. There was this one moment where Goku was outraged after hearing Black killed Chichi and Goten in the alternate timeline, which shows he has empathy and concern for his family. Goku going berserk on Black wasn't an act of compassion, but it was an act out of compassion for Chichi and Goten.

 

BenjerminGaye

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All super is doing is making me love vegeta more and more. Dude who would abandon bulma to train is now turning training and tournaments down in favor of the birth of his child.
 

uhmusddy

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He was goofy in Z. He is definitely stupid in Super.

He had a few serious brain acitivity moments like peeping future zeno was going to destroy the entire future timeline instead of only zamasu.
 

Exaar

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I'm pretty sure even the DBZ anime made him look a tad more stupid than the actual manga did. If i remember correctly.

He had his reasons for all things he did on your list, He didn't do them out of pure stupidity.

He gave frieza his energy because he wanted frieza to live with the fact he lost and was saved by a low class "monkey" to destroy his ego, a far worse punishment than death for someone as egotistical as frieza.

He gave cell a senzu for gohan to defeat him at full strength, Giving him confidence and maybe the ability for him to master that power hidden inside him. If gohan defeated a weakend cell without unleashing his hidden power, he would've learn't nothing from that fight.

Same with Buu, He held back so Goten/Trunks could defend the earth since they can't always depend on goku.

As for Hit, Well it wasn't the smartest thing he's done but he wanted to fight Hit at his best, he is a saiyan after all, Plus it ended up in quite the good training session.
 

kimb

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He is a retard now. His retardeness is turning him into a villain
Lmao, funny thing, there's actually theory going around the db community that Goku Black is impersonating Goku, and is trying to achieve his goals of killing all the mortals through this tournament.

Seriously though, I'm not going to front like Goku doesn't do things that are counter-productive, but it's not something new, he's always been "retarded". Getting a super powered android bent on destroying human civilization back to full fighting strength is pretty nefarious and counter productive, but I guess you can argue Goku is creating situations where humanity is on the verge of of destruction is worse.
 

Yami Silver

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Goku always acted selfish and stupidly in the anime going back as far as dragon ball, and I don't see why'd they change that in super. This is the same Goku who lent Frieza his Ki after defeating him, and gave Cell a senzu bean so he could fight Gohan at full strength, and hired Hit to assassinate him (and Hit technically succeeded). People really need to go back and watch DBZ episode by episode, because it there isn't as huge of a change in Goku or the canonical story progression between DBZ and DBS as your nostalgia is leading you believe.
"Going as far back as Dragonball" Goku wasn't even an adult in Dragonball. He was a boy raised in the mountains by himself (and a bit by Gohan). Cut him some slack.
"I don't see why they'd change that in Super". Maybe because he's around 40 years older? See how much Naruto changed from 12 years old to 17 years old?
"The same Goku who gave Frieza ki". Not stupid at all. He gave him some in forgiveness. He gave him enough to escape but not enough to kill Goku then and there.
"Gave Cell a senzu bean" If Cell hadn't had the bean, he may not have dominated Gohan as easily as he did and thus it would not lead up to Gohan turning SSJ2.
"Hired Hit to assassinate him". Got to see more of Hit's techniques and was ultimately a training exercise knowing that he had the inter-universe tournament coming up with Hit himself fighting in it.
"Isn't a huge change in Goku throughout Z" Goku by the end was willing to let other people do things (don't know why they went back on that). Before, he wanted to do everything himself.

I agree though, that Goku does not seem as mature as he was before. If you're talking about the Zeno thing, then I think that Goku misjudged Zeno's character. Goku is not stupid though. Not stupid at all.
 

Kushina89

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I'm pretty sure even the DBZ anime made him look a tad more stupid than the actual manga did. If i remember correctly.

He had his reasons for all things he did on your list, He didn't do them out of pure stupidity.

He gave frieza his energy because he wanted frieza to live with the fact he lost and was saved by a low class "monkey" to destroy his ego, a far worse punishment than death for someone as egotistical as frieza.

He gave cell a senzu for gohan to defeat him at full strength, Giving him confidence and maybe the ability for him to master that power hidden inside him. If gohan defeated a weakend cell without unleashing his hidden power, he would've learn't nothing from that fight.

Same with Buu, He held back so Goten/Trunks could defend the earth since they can't always depend on goku.

As for Hit, Well it wasn't the smartest thing he's done but he wanted to fight Hit at his best, he is a saiyan after all, Plus it ended up in quite the good training session.
"Going as far back as Dragonball" Goku wasn't even an adult in Dragonball. He was a boy raised in the mountains by himself (and a bit by Gohan). Cut him some slack.
"I don't see why they'd change that in Super". Maybe because he's around 40 years older? See how much Naruto changed from 12 years old to 17 years old?
"The same Goku who gave Frieza ki". Not stupid at all. He gave him some in forgiveness. He gave him enough to escape but not enough to kill Goku then and there.
"Gave Cell a senzu bean" If Cell hadn't had the bean, he may not have dominated Gohan as easily as he did and thus it would not lead up to Gohan turning SSJ2.
"Hired Hit to assassinate him". Got to see more of Hit's techniques and was ultimately a training exercise knowing that he had the inter-universe tournament coming up with Hit himself fighting in it.
"Isn't a huge change in Goku throughout Z" Goku by the end was willing to let other people do things (don't know why they went back on that). Before, he wanted to do everything himself.

I agree though, that Goku does not seem as mature as he was before. If you're talking about the Zeno thing, then I think that Goku misjudged Zeno's character. Goku is not stupid though. Not stupid at all.

the only People in this thread who know what's going on...
 

kimb

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I'm pretty sure even the DBZ anime made him look a tad more stupid than the actual manga did. If i remember correctly.

He had his reasons for all things he did on your list, He didn't do them out of pure stupidity.

He gave frieza his energy because he wanted frieza to live with the fact he lost and was saved by a low class "monkey" to destroy his ego, a far worse punishment than death for someone as egotistical as frieza.

He gave cell a senzu for gohan to defeat him at full strength, Giving him confidence and maybe the ability for him to master that power hidden inside him. If gohan defeated a weakend cell without unleashing his hidden power, he would've learn't nothing from that fight.

Same with Buu, He held back so Goten/Trunks could defend the earth since they can't always depend on goku.

As for Hit, Well it wasn't the smartest thing he's done but he wanted to fight Hit at his best, he is a saiyan after all, Plus it ended up in quite the good training session.
I can agree with that. Goku had some ulterior motive behind his stupid actions, and the "Zeno destroying the universe" situation is different since Goku's only intentions were to get stronger. But at the same time, all the previous instances are different from the Zeno situation because Goku wasn't aware the fate of the entire Universe was on the line when asking Zeno for a tournament. He knew after the fact.


"Going as far back as Dragonball" Goku wasn't even an adult in Dragonball. He was a boy raised in the mountains by himself (and a bit by Gohan). Cut him some slack.
"I don't see why they'd change that in Super". Maybe because he's around 40 years older? See how much Naruto changed from 12 years old to 17 years old?
"The same Goku who gave Frieza ki". Not stupid at all. He gave him some in forgiveness. He gave him enough to escape but not enough to kill Goku then and there.
"Gave Cell a senzu bean" If Cell hadn't had the bean, he may not have dominated Gohan as easily as he did and thus it would not lead up to Gohan turning SSJ2.
"Hired Hit to assassinate him". Got to see more of Hit's techniques and was ultimately a training exercise knowing that he had the inter-universe tournament coming up with Hit himself fighting in it.
"Isn't a huge change in Goku throughout Z" Goku by the end was willing to let other people do things (don't know why they went back on that). Before, he wanted to do everything himself.

I agree though, that Goku does not seem as mature as he was before. If you're talking about the Zeno thing, then I think that Goku misjudged Zeno's character. Goku is not stupid though. Not stupid at all.
I agree with most of those points, but for some you're saying the end result were justified the means.

1. Because Gohan was able to achieve SSJ2 as a result of fighting full strength Cell, Goku is excused ifrom risking the fate of humanity.

2. Because Goku was able to survive Hit's assasination (which was bullshit), he's excused from not looking like an idiot. lol

Even now, with the Universal survival tournament, Goku, and Gohan are guaranteed to get stronger as a result of participating in the tournament, some even speculate Goku's going to achieve another form by the end of this, but getting stronger doesn't justify Goku's actions.
 

Meowazziel

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Goku always acted selfish and stupidly in the anime going back as far as dragon ball, and I don't see why'd they change that in super. This is the same Goku who lent Frieza his Ki after defeating him, and gave Cell a senzu bean so he could fight Gohan at full strength, and hired Hit to assassinate him (and Hit technically succeeded). People really need to go back and watch DBZ episode by episode, because it there isn't as huge of a change in Goku or the canonical story progression between DBZ and DBS as your nostalgia is leading you believe.
I disagree and I dont think its really about Goku being stupid or not in super compared to dragonball z or dragonball.
I do think Goku has gotten more selfish in dragonball super though.
I am not saying that the more selfish attitude is good for someone to have, but for the story its at least interesting that the main character moves into that direction, as it is usually not the case.
Also daring, brave and admirable for the writers to move the main character's character development in that direction, instead of going for something like a hero altruistic type that usually works with many audiences.

Goku was more like that in dragonball z.
Goku had a massive sense for forgiveness in dbz and therefore he gave Frieza a second chance, after he couldnt resist Frieza's pleas to save him.

During the cell games the goal was for Gohan to be pushed into a corner so he would unleash his full power to defeat Cell. A power from Gohan that Goku had seen a glimpse off in the room of spirit and time.
Goku saw the sensu bean as part of creating that scenario of Gohan getting pushed into a corner and unleashing the power to save everyone. As Goku couldnt defeat Cell himself, yet he believed Gohan could.

Both these examples are not selfish.
They are done either out of forgiveness or with the well being of others in mind.

In dragonball super Goku has gotten more selfish or at least is less focussed on the well being of others.
He even hires Hit for assasination on himself, just as a means to get stronger.
Not because someone is threatening his loved ones and he needs to defeat that person.
No, just as a means to get stronger in general, for the sake of just wanting to get stronger (sort of an obsession/addition?). Even letting his friends and children know eventually about the assasination, who were worried, yet he continued with it.
He could have stopped after reviving himself with that energy wave, as Hit considered it to be a successful kill and considered the mission done, but Goku made him change his mind and resume the fight. All just for Goku wanting to experience Hit at his strongest and wanting to defeat him.

Goku knew that asking Zeno for the tournament could brings risks and those risks could harm others.
Whis and Beerus warned him.
He didnt take the warnings serious, even though he saw future Zeno destroy future Trunks his universe
and thus knows about potential risks with Zeno.
He didnt take the warnings serious even though Whis and Beerus know Zeno for way longer and have seen more what he can do.
Even though Whis and Beerus allow Goku and Vegeta to train on Beerus his planet.
Yet Goku went through with it anyway and asked Zeno.

Thats quite selfish and not respectful of Goku tbh.

Yes asking Zeno for the tournament turned out well.
As Zeno wanted to destroy several low mortal lvl universes already (including the one of his friend Goku btw, whereas Goku couldnt believe such a thing). The tournament can give universes a chance to save themselfs and prevent Zeno from erasing them.
So in a sense reminding Zeno of the tournament helped others instead of bringing extra risks.

Still that doesnt change the fact that Goku just wanted to tournament for selfish ways and that he did take a risk that could harm many.
A risk that was not about the well being of others.
A risk that was just about the desire to get stronger and fight strong opponents.
Not necessarily getting stronger to save people.
 
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