Gokage vs Hashirama

[Neutra1 Knight]

Putting Madara's Statement to the test.

Your not allowed to say Hashi wins based on this statement. Actual Debates and reasons required.

Hashi has his healing and all mokuton shown so far, No biju's

 

[Slug Princess Tsunade]

Tsunade's strength > Mokuton
Lava and acid > Mokuton
A's speed and strength > Mokuton
Jinton > Mokuton and flower worlds
Gaara's sand > Mokuton

By feats the 5 Kage wins mid diff.

 

[genii96]

Gokage mid diff

 

[Sunagura]

gokage

 

[NarutoIndra]

Tsunade's strength > Mokuton
Lava and acid > Mokuton
A's speed and strength > Mokuton
Jinton > Mokuton and flower worlds
Gaara's sand > Mokuton

By feats the 5 Kage wins mid diff.

Is this a joke? Hashirama doesn't only use Moukoton, if I recall Moukoton consists of earth and water release and he can use both of these sufficiently as well if he can use Moukoton to that extent. Hashirama was a senju, the leader of the senju's for a period of time to be exact. Senju's where known for great physical energy and chakra reserves.

His strength was so greatly respected by the shinobi world that Madara himself claimed Hashirama was the one person whom he most admired and detested.

quote from Wikia. Note the word 'strength' meaning his strength not feats or overall power.

He held advanced ability in taijutsu with prodigious speed and strength.

Take this into consideration as well, and again note the word prodigious.

He can use bringer of death as well which is an illusion, and was the one who defeated the one who took a shit on the 5 kage. Madara him self claimed the fight with the 5 kage was nothing compared to his fight with Hashirama, who defeated Madara and the Kyuubi. Tsunade even had doubts that her grandfather defeated Madara Uchiha. In your logic, Hashi would lose to Madara and the Kyuubi because TBB>Moukoton Fire style>Moukoton>Amateratsu>Moukoton.. but that is not the case. He can heal himself during the fights by merely using seals, and was said to be even a better medical ninja then Tsunade. Him being a better medical ninja shows that he has an amazing chakra control, and probably better than tsunade's. One wood dragon jutsu from Hashirama and most of the kages are done for.

 

[genii96]

Is this a joke? Hashirama doesn't only use Moukoton, if I recall Moukoton consists of earth and water release and he can use both of these sufficiently as well if he can use Moukoton to that extent. Hashirama was a senju, the leader of the senju's for a period of time to be exact. Senju's where known for great physical energy and chakra reserves. quote from Wikia. Note the word 'strength' meaning his strength not feats or overall power. Take this into consideration as well, and again note the word prodigious.

He can use bringer of death as well which is an illusion, and was the one who defeated the one who took a shit on the 5 kage. Madara him self claimed the fight with the 5 kage was nothing compared to his fight with Hashirama, who defeated Madara and the Kyuubi. Tsunade even had doubts that her grandfather defeated Madara Uchiha. In your logic, Hashi would lose to Madara and the Kyuubi because TBB>Moukoton Fire style>Moukoton>Amateratsu>Moukoton.. but that is not the case. He can heal himself during the fights by merely using seals, and was said to be even a better medical ninja then Tsunade. Him being a better medical ninja shows that he has an amazing chakra control, and probably better than tsunade's. One wood dragon jutsu from Hashirama and most of the kages are done for.

hashirama uses moukton primarily,it was moukton he was known for,not doton or suiton,he hasnt shown any doton or suiton anyway.

Stop comparing ems and edo madara,edo madara would kill him easily.

Hashirama never faced meteors did he?,or his own moukton techs?,or preta that renders his ninjtsu useless?.

Hashirama's moukton naturally supresses bijuus,madara using kyubi is like bringing a steel armour against jiton user,foolish move.

Jinton would easily level the wood dragon,the kages arent bijuus,hashi's moukton isnt strong against them.

Hashirama isnt better than tsunade in medical ninjutsu,they are on par with each other in terms of self healing,tsunade is the greatest medical nin as said man times.

Healing himself wont save him from a jinton,or sand coffin.

A is fast enough to evade any branches or roots,mei will blind him with the mist allowing a jinton.

Hashirama looses mid diff

 

[Rainbow Dash]

Don't trust Madara with anything he says. Madara is just one huge fanboy of Hashirama and exaggerates his strength.

 

[NarutoIndra]

hashirama uses moukton primarily,it was moukton he was known for,not doton or suiton,he hasnt shown any doton or suiton anyway.

Stop comparing ems and edo madara,edo madara would kill him easily.

Hashirama never faced meteors did he?,or his own moukton techs?,or preta that renders his ninjtsu useless?.

Hashirama's moukton naturally supresses bijuus,madara using kyubi is like bringing a steel armour against jiton user,foolish move.

Jinton would easily level the wood dragon,the kages arent bijuus,hashi's moukton isnt strong against them.

Hashirama isnt better than tsunade in medical ninjutsu,they are on par with each other in terms of self healing,tsunade is the greatest medical nin as said man times.

Healing himself wont save him from a jinton,or sand coffin.

A is fast enough to evade any branches or roots,mei will blind him with the mist allowing a jinton.

Hashirama looses mid diff

If he can use Moukoton, he can clearly use water and earth release, that is like saying you started talking in sentences since you were born. No you learn the alphabets, then learn to combine them into words, then use them properly into sentences, combining different words.

Never compared EMS to edo, just stated what madara had claimed. Edo Madara's Moukoton did not compare to Hashirama's, Edo Madara didn't have to use any of the path's or meteorite technique to beat the 5 kages and make them look like fodder.

Yes, using a bijuu is idiotic against a Moukoton user, but it still made Hashirama waste lots of chakra. Guy was stuck in the Moukoton and he isn't a bijuu, does not mean it isn't effective against humans only because it's very effective against bijuu. Jinton creates a cube formed of chakra, this would easily get absorbed by the wood dragon before he can execute it.

The hands also play a crucial role in preparation of techniques, interfering with the user's arms can hinder the technique.

Quote from Wikia, how do we know the wood dragon will not hinder it.
We don't know if he would get caught in Jinton or sand coffin so let us not assume such things. Mei using acidic mist will make all the other kages suffer as well. Hashirama never loses mid diff. let alone from these 5 kages..

 

[saw2097]

Hashi wins low difficulty. He was able to fight Madara along with the 9 tails. Plus he was able to stop PS.

 

[Strict]

Hashirama wins. If Madara, who fought both says, that the Gokage are nothing compared to Hashirama, than it's the case.

 

[Enton]

them 5 are trash compared to hashi.

 

[Exaar]

Hashirama wins. If Madara, who fought both says, that the Gokage are nothing compared to Hashirama, than it's the case.

If thats all you have to go on, Then it isn't much at all.

Madara said that, Yet they Forced him to use Clones as a precaution, They forced him to use PS, Even he said they do deserve the title of kage. Finally admiting they arn't "Trash" after all. Most of his statements about the kages are based on his own arrogance and limited knowledge on the kages.
Madara was only having such an easy time with the kages because of his Edo body and unlimited chakra's.

 

[genii96]

If he can use Moukoton, he can clearly use water and earth release, that is like saying you started talking in sentences since you were born. No you learn the alphabets, then learn to combine them into words, then use them properly into sentences, combining different words.

Never compared EMS to edo, just stated what madara had claimed. Edo Madara's Moukoton did not compare to Hashirama's, Edo Madara didn't have to use any of the path's or meteorite technique to beat the 5 kages and make them look like fodder.

Yes, using a bijuu is idiotic against a Moukoton user, but it still made Hashirama waste lots of chakra. Guy was stuck in the Moukoton and he isn't a bijuu, does not mean it isn't effective against humans only because it's very effective against bijuu. Jinton creates a cube formed of chakra, this would easily get absorbed by the wood dragon before he can execute it. Quote from Wikia, how do we know the wood dragon will not hinder it.
We don't know if he would get caught in Jinton or sand coffin so let us not assume such things. Mei using acidic mist will make all the other kages suffer as well. Hashirama never loses mid diff. let alone from these 5 kages..

dude,he can use it,but has never shown which tech he has,so stick with moukton.

Madara's moukton is on par with hashirama's,kabuto said so IIRC,last time i checked he dropped 2 meteors,used 25 susanoo clones,used preta path to escape the gaara naruto combo,used several mouktons.

A is much stronger than guy,and faster,the trees didnt absorb the jinton when onoki cleared the forest,A has raiton armour whih is strong against wood,so holding him isnt easy especially with his speed.

The wood dragon can't reach onoki before he does jinton,not to mention the fact that the normal sand of gaara has no chakra to absorb.

Why cany hashi be hit by jinton?,or sand coffined?,madara himself got hit by both.

I said mist not acid one,the hidden mist that can hide the kages allowing for a jinton.or a sand coffin.

If onoki flies,what can hashirama do?,a jinton would kill him,and he would have 4 other kages to deal with.

I dont see how hashirama can beat the gokages

 

[Strict]

If thats all you have to go on, Then it isn't much at all.

Madara said that, Yet they Forced him to use Clones as a precaution, They forced him to use PS, Even he said they do deserve the title of kage. Finally admiting they arn't "Trash" after all. Most of his statements about the kages are based on his own arrogance and limited knowledge on the kages.
Madara was only having such an easy time with the kages because of his Edo body and unlimited chakra's.

They forced him to use clones which were Hashiramas ability originally. The perfect Susanoo, the Gokage are nothing compared with, was also inferior to Hashirama. Madara made clear not only once, that Hashirama is a league of his own. If Hashirama is going to create 5 Mokuton Bunhins for any Kage, they're done. Mei is most likely inferior to already one Mokuton Bunshin if not two and for the rest 5 clones are clearly more than enough. Any clone uses the originals techniques. What does Jinton pose for a treat for Hashirama, if latters clone will use the bringer of darkness and crush him with the Mokuton. I always hear that Oonokis Jinton is superior to Hashiramas Mokuton, what actually is a pity, because his strongest Jinton technique which power was backed up with Tsunades strength, was half as large as the meteorite, which was small compared to the tree world. Even if Oonoki is going to destroy a part of the tree world, Hashirama can simply accelerate the growth again. Fighting Hashirama with dozens of his clones who can use his abilities in a tree world, is even for the Gokage impossible. Madara was toying with them, Hashirama will not.

So you may explain me how each of the Kage is going to fight a few Mokuton Bunshins, with all of the originals abilities. And if the clones are going to use the bringer of darkness in the beginning, before crushing them. Your sight is too subjective.

 

[Exaar]

They forced him to use clones which were Hashiramas ability originally. The perfect Susanoo, the Gokage are nothing compared with, was also inferior to Hashirama. Madara made clear not only once, that Hashirama is a league of his own. If Hashirama is going to create 5 Mokuton Bunhins for any Kage, they're done. Mei is most likely inferior to already one Mokuton Bunshin if not two and for the rest 5 clones are clearly more than enough. Any clone uses the originals techniques. What does Jinton pose for a treat for Hashirama, if latters clone will use the bringer of darkness and crush him with the Mokuton. I always hear that Oonokis Jinton is superior to Hashiramas Mokuton, what actually is a pity, because his strongest Jinton technique which power was backed up with Tsunades strength, was half as large as the meteorite, which was small compared to the tree world. Even if Oonoki is going to destroy a part of the tree world, Hashirama can simply accelerate the growth again. Fighting Hashirama with dozens of his clones who can use his abilities in a tree world, is even for the Gokage impossible. Madara was toying with them, Hashirama will not.

So you may explain me how each of the Kage is going to fight a few Mokuton Bunshins, with all of the originals abilities. And if the clones are going to use the bringer of darkness in the beginning, before crushing them. Your sight is too subjective.

So your saying 5 mokuton clones could do what 25 mokuton clones with susanoo failed to do?. Sounds legit.

You highly underrating Onoki's jinton.
Please tell me more about how Onoki's jinton is inferior to mokuton

Spoiler

A battle worn Onoki

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What is Hashirama doing against A's speed?, Let alone When onoki makes him faster.

Also also seem to forget even the mighty hashirama is limited by chakra, he cannot constantly spam clones and mokuton endlessly, Every clones he makes, makes his mokuton gets smaller in scale due to having less chakra. Also since we don't know how much chakra it takes for him to create the flower in the first place.

Bringer of darkness is a close ranged tech if i remember, Onoki/Gaara can easily be out of range, A is simply to fast, Mei had hidden mist protecting her and Tsunade. Also not adding the fact that hashirama has shown nothing that could kill tsunade.

 

[Cpt Long Schlong]

If thats all you have to go on, Then it isn't much at all.

Madara said that, Yet they Forced him to use Clones as a precaution, They forced him to use PS, Even he said they do deserve the title of kage. Finally admiting they arn't "Trash" after all. Most of his statements about the kages are based on his own arrogance and limited knowledge on the kages.
Madara was only having such an easy time with the kages because of his Edo body and unlimited chakra's.

The first part I agree with, but the bolded almost made me spit my drink out. Let's get it straight that Madara was relaxed because of his edo body, and so made mistakes, which he knew were affordable, through his edo body. If Madara didn't have an edo body, he wouldn't of wasted time or testing on people such as the Kages.

No one can say for sure, but what we know is that the current Kage (bar Oonoki and maybe Tsunade) aren't all that special, we also know that Hashirama's healing is much greater than Tsunades, and that Hashirama's mokuton was on the scale that Madara demonstrated, the one that ripped Tsunade in half and covered the battlefield.

My vote is for Hashirama, if anyone.

What is Hashirama doing against A's speed?, Let alone When onoki makes him faster.

Also also seem to forget even the mighty hashirama is limited by chakra, he cannot constantly spam clones and mokuton endlessly, Every clones he makes, makes his mokuton gets smaller in scale due to having less chakra. Also since we don't know how much chakra it takes for him to create the flower in the first place.

Bringer of darkness is a close ranged tech if i remember, Onoki/Gaara can easily be out of range, A is simply to fast, Mei had hidden mist protecting her and Tsunade. Also not adding the fact that hashirama has shown nothing that could kill tsunade.

Firstly, Madara literally put A under genjutsu on first look, obviously Madara is more skilled with genjutsu (presumably) than Hashirama but we can safely assume that Hashirama wouldn't have too much trouble using bringer of darkness against A.

Secondly, we know Hashirama had mountainous amounts of chakra, being senju and what not.

And did you forget about that mokuton that ripped Tsunade in half a few chapters ago? Now try that Mokuton with 20 years or more skill and experience put into it, and more fluency of use; and you have Hashirama's skill with mokuton.

 

[saw2097]

The first part I agree with, but the bolded almost made me spit my drink out. Let's get it straight that Madara was relaxed because of his edo body, and so made mistakes, which he knew were affordable, through his edo body. If Madara didn't have an edo body, he wouldn't of wasted time or testing on people such as the Kages.

No one can say for sure, but what we know is that the current Kage (bar Oonoki and maybe Tsunade) aren't all that special, we also know that Hashirama's healing is much greater than Tsunades, and that Hashirama's mokuton was on the scale that Madara demonstrated, the one that ripped Tsunade in half and covered the battlefield.

My vote is for Hashirama, if anyone.

What this guy said, also Madara mentioned that they were lucky that Hashi wasn't their because with just him the need for the maps to be redrawn will not be too great.

From that it safe to say that Hashirama had some land altering jutsu's of his own.

 

[Exaar]

The first part I agree with, but the bolded almost made me spit my drink out. Let's get it straight that Madara was relaxed because of his edo body, and so made mistakes, which he knew were affordable, through his edo body. If Madara didn't have an edo body, he wouldn't of wasted time or testing on people such as the Kages.

No one can say for sure, but what we know is that the current Kage (bar Oonoki and maybe Tsunade) aren't all that special, we also know that Hashirama's healing is much greater than Tsunades, and that Hashirama's mokuton was on the scale that Madara demonstrated, the one that ripped Tsunade in half and covered the battlefield.

My vote is for Hashirama, if anyone.

His healing isn't Greater, Hashirama's best healing Feat has already been matched by Tsunade.

Feat wise
Hashirama:
Healing without seals

Tsunade:
Healing without seals
Healing a entire village by her self all at the same time.

These Two feats of Tsunade Trump Hashirama's one feat.

Even So, without an Edo Body, MAdara wouldn't of came out of that battle without a care in the world, Due to Chakra loss by Spamming mokuton/Ps and so on. he would of had alot more difficulty.

What this guy said, also Madara mentioned that they were lucky that Hashi wasn't their because with just him the need for the maps to be redrawn will not be too great.

From that it safe to say that Hashirama had some land altering jutsu's of his own.

So does Gaara, he can flood an area with Sand, Like he did against kimi, Giant sand waves and so on.

Hashirama isn't the only person with large scale attacks.

 

[Cpt Long Schlong]

His healing isn't Greater, Hashirama's best healing Feat has already been matched by Tsunade.

Feat wise
Hashirama:
Healing without seals

Tsunade:
Healing without seals
Healing a entire village by her self all at the same time.

These Two feats of Tsunade Trump Hashirama's one feat.

Even So, without an Edo Body, MAdara wouldn't of came out of that battle without a care in the world, Due to Chakra loss by Spamming mokuton/Ps and so on. he would of had alot more difficulty.

Almost comical response, can you not remember the quote from Madara saying that Hashirama's healing was on another level to Tsunades? Being the only man to have seen them both I think I'll take his word over what Tsunade did with her summon and caused her to fall into a coma.

I don't think you got Madara's attitude in that fight, it was the thought of; 'these guys are worthless, I have new powers, let's test them' If you think that he'd of acted as nonchalant as that if he had a physical body then that's another story.

Anyway the Madara fight isn't on topic, so how about you respond to the other points which were more relevant

 

[Slug Princess Tsunade]

Almost comical response, can you not remember the quote from Madara saying that Hashirama's healing was on another level to Tsunades? Being the only man to have seen them both I think I'll take his word over what Tsunade did with her summon and caused her to fall into a coma.

I don't think you got Madara's attitude in that fight, it was the thought of; 'these guys are worthless, I have new powers, let's test them' If you think that he'd of acted as nonchalant as that if he had a physical body then that's another story.

Anyway the Madara fight isn't on topic, so how about you respond to the other points which were more relevant

And you remember the quote when Madara stated her healing abilities are the SAME as Hahi's ?