Genjutsu training, is what I was made to believe.
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Lili-Chwan
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Lili-Chwan
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Hmm, how deep. I don't know, to be completely frank. I mean, I'm not even sure if we're actually talking, or if it's just in my head. Either way, I guess there isn't much I can do but answer.
I think reality theoretically would be every true fact, occurrence, or even existence. The fact that there is a rock on the floor to my right is a part of reality. The fact that I'm actually here, breathing and thinking is part of reality. The fact that there is a chance that this reality might not actually be reality is also part of this reality.
Fiction on the other hand is said to be the opposite of reality, it's a fabrication of the mind.
Of course, we can distinguish between reality and fiction using our senses. As the saying says "seeing is believing". Genjutsu is a ninja art that revolves around using chakra (spiritual energy) to manipulate ones senses. Manipulating someone's senses enables us to show him an altered reality.
Hope I got alladat right. @_@
I think reality theoretically would be every true fact, occurrence, or even existence. The fact that there is a rock on the floor to my right is a part of reality. The fact that I'm actually here, breathing and thinking is part of reality. The fact that there is a chance that this reality might not actually be reality is also part of this reality.
Fiction on the other hand is said to be the opposite of reality, it's a fabrication of the mind.
Of course, we can distinguish between reality and fiction using our senses. As the saying says "seeing is believing". Genjutsu is a ninja art that revolves around using chakra (spiritual energy) to manipulate ones senses. Manipulating someone's senses enables us to show him an altered reality.
Hope I got alladat right. @_@
Lili-Chwan
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There is something very important in the art of Genjutsu, and that is, to master reality. In order to produce the illusion, you must first know what you're copying. And once you start to dwell with illusions, be it casting them or getting targeted by them, you need to have an anchor, to fixate you into reality. This is basically, understanding why a genjutsu is a genjutsu, and use that knowledge to deploy methods of releasing you from a genjutsu. Also using that knowledge, you can strengthen and complement your genjutsu. So, if you can't thrust your senses, what can you thrust?
Well, when it comes to thrusting, I occasionally enjoy thrusting my Bald-headed giggle stick up narrow cavities. o-o
And yes, if I'm put under a gen, I can't get out unless I realize that I'm caught in a genjutsu. Of course, some genjutsu are pretty basic and simplistic, so figuring out you're in a genjutsu shouldn't be a problem, but some genjutsu might not alter reality in an unnatural or bazaar way. One would usually have to relay on his wits to find any slightest details that are unusual. Sometimes the timing of certain events might give out the fact that they aren't real, like a giant fire being created so fast that naturally it should have caused an explosion. Or if a genjutsu made a cliff suddenly appear near you, maybe not even suddenly, but you didn't see where all the mass of earth went, as mass doesn't simply disappear, based on that, you can figure out that the cause of that was genjutsu rather than ninjutsu.
So yes, I can always trust my common sense. o-o
And yes, if I'm put under a gen, I can't get out unless I realize that I'm caught in a genjutsu. Of course, some genjutsu are pretty basic and simplistic, so figuring out you're in a genjutsu shouldn't be a problem, but some genjutsu might not alter reality in an unnatural or bazaar way. One would usually have to relay on his wits to find any slightest details that are unusual. Sometimes the timing of certain events might give out the fact that they aren't real, like a giant fire being created so fast that naturally it should have caused an explosion. Or if a genjutsu made a cliff suddenly appear near you, maybe not even suddenly, but you didn't see where all the mass of earth went, as mass doesn't simply disappear, based on that, you can figure out that the cause of that was genjutsu rather than ninjutsu.
So yes, I can always trust my common sense. o-o
Lili-Chwan
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It's very crucial that whatever reasoning you do, you do it fast. Sometimes I see people go into long discourses about some complex realization that their in a genjutsu, when they could have just focused on a small detail and go on with it. Obviously, the easiest way to figure out you're in a genjutsu is about how bizarre a certain situation is, either because it's too fast or unrealistic, or because you can't pinpoint how it began, or even because it's working in a way it isn't supposed to. Something like the sky suddenly turning red, or things starting to move around or distort, usually means a genjutsu (Hallucinogenic structures may appear to be a genjutsu when they're actually not, so you need to figure out right away if you're fightning with a Biological Warfare type of ninja).
That is the second way of realizing you're in a genjutsu, when you know the ninja or know enough to understand that whatever the genjutsu is creating is beyond the capability of your opponent. For example, if you see a byakugan user create a tree. You have enough understanding of RP to know that these KG don't match. Beware of KG that do match (Mostly elemental KG). This is also the case of people create genjutsus of animals that they cannot summon. Except Pein, a ninja can only summon one animal type, so if someone you don't know summons an animal, and then creates a genjutsu of a different animal, you can pretty much assume you're in a genjutsu. Again, Pein did show the ability to summon various animals (And so did Nagato by himself), generally attributed to the Rinnegan, but I know for personal experience that there aren't others, until it happens, I'll teach differently. Of course, you need to keep doubting and experimenting, new combinations happen all the time.
Of course, if you do not know the ninja you're fighting, you have to assume some hidden skills, and learn what is real and what is not by trial and error. (And this is why it's crucial to be informed)
Other than Bizarre Effects or Unattained Skills, you need to rely on the genjutsu's own limitation. Especially in lower ranks, a genjutsu will only alter a couple of basic senses. Sometimes, a genjutsu can be purely visual, so, sounds associated with what the illusion is creating won't be produced, and you can use that to your advantage. Other times, you can see some light changes or superposition of images (for example, you may see an illusionary animal or clone that doesn't bend grass when it walks). You can see a tree constricting you but not hear it grow. etc etc. When a genjutsu breaks the B rank mark, it starts to complexify, especially in the hands of a good genjutsu user, and start to describe a richer experience, but even masters make mistakes, and even powerful genjutsus have limitations, you just need to explore them.
But as you fight, you'll start to get experience in seeing genjutsus and what to expect of them. Good?
Reborn
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Emphasis on the quick deduction part.
in battles, especially ones I've been in when in recently, where I cast genjutsu, it's not especially hard to discern the genjutsu but people use all sorts of lengthy descriptions as to how they can discern it. Lili spoke on the best ways to deduce your in a genjutsu but not why. Though it's rather obvious I feel most people don't understand it, at least from my expericen.
When dealing with genjutsu, I see it this way. If somebody puts you under a spell you need to first: realize your in a genjutsu which requires mental processing which takes up time meaning it takes time away from your ability to counter not only the genjutsu but any on coming attacks that likely follows. Then you need to actually release the genjutsu somehow. This essentially adds an additional step for you within the time frame which takes up more time. If you're talking about all these complex methods that allows you to realize your in an illusion, it only wastes time because you cannot process all that information in the split second you probably have. You need to make time for you to figure out your trapped, defend, and then counter anything else.
As Lili said, paying attention to the most minor things that you can say "wait, this can't happen" purely based on common sense/knowledge. Deducing a genjutsu is half the battle in most casese. Some genjutsu are obvious and that may be on purpose primarily for reasons of torture. If you're paralyzing your opponent or messing with their body so they can't do much else in terms of making seals for Kai, it may not matter. There are alternative ways of releasing genjutsu without hand seals but Lili will probably get into that later. However a good majority of the time genjutsu requires some sort of reasoning from observation of irrational occurances and you need to be able to do it quickly to allow you to act swiftly.
in battles, especially ones I've been in when in recently, where I cast genjutsu, it's not especially hard to discern the genjutsu but people use all sorts of lengthy descriptions as to how they can discern it. Lili spoke on the best ways to deduce your in a genjutsu but not why. Though it's rather obvious I feel most people don't understand it, at least from my expericen.
When dealing with genjutsu, I see it this way. If somebody puts you under a spell you need to first: realize your in a genjutsu which requires mental processing which takes up time meaning it takes time away from your ability to counter not only the genjutsu but any on coming attacks that likely follows. Then you need to actually release the genjutsu somehow. This essentially adds an additional step for you within the time frame which takes up more time. If you're talking about all these complex methods that allows you to realize your in an illusion, it only wastes time because you cannot process all that information in the split second you probably have. You need to make time for you to figure out your trapped, defend, and then counter anything else.
As Lili said, paying attention to the most minor things that you can say "wait, this can't happen" purely based on common sense/knowledge. Deducing a genjutsu is half the battle in most casese. Some genjutsu are obvious and that may be on purpose primarily for reasons of torture. If you're paralyzing your opponent or messing with their body so they can't do much else in terms of making seals for Kai, it may not matter. There are alternative ways of releasing genjutsu without hand seals but Lili will probably get into that later. However a good majority of the time genjutsu requires some sort of reasoning from observation of irrational occurances and you need to be able to do it quickly to allow you to act swiftly.
Lili-Chwan
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A little clarification, Reborn is my sempai and a genjutsu specialist (both officially and by my standards), I asked him to give his opinion throughout this whole training not only because you'll have a much better understanding of genjutsu, but also because I'm pioneering genjutsu training, so I want to get the best out of this, in order to start teaching more people. If that's ok with you 
Oh my, oh my. I can't believe this is actually happening. I believe this is the very first time I've ever went through reading training posts more than once. And to top it all, I lost count of how many times I read through each paragraph.
Oh, and I made that mistake before. The long analysis of why a gen is a gen... I got fried with lightning before I could break out. Lol
Yea, we good. o-o
Oh, yes, of course. It's rather an honor. Kevin is a good friend, and is very known for his talents and skill. It's much more than ok with me. ^^A little clarification, Reborn is my sempai and a genjutsu specialist (both officially and by my standards), I asked him to give his opinion throughout this whole training not only because you'll have a much better understanding of genjutsu, but also because I'm pioneering genjutsu training, so I want to get the best out of this, in order to start teaching more people. If that's ok with you
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Reborn
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Bitch, that's what happens when you try to figure out the meaning of life while you're in a genjutsu about to die. You get fried like chicken at poppeys!
And my name is Curtis, some friend you ware buttwipe >_> [/end flaming/spam].
Anywho, after Lili makes a post I'll probably look to see if I have anything to add, she's usually covers everything. You won't have to wait for me to post either, I'll just pop in and out now and again
Lili-Chwan
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Well then, now that we generally covered means of realizing you're in a genjutsu, we need to speak of how to release from it. So, what methods do you know?
Imma stick to calling you Kevin regardless. :3
I know a few. One is full body surges of chakra, like Nagashi, and add weight, which will flush out the external chakra in a sense. I know of the Kai technique, and that a friend can wake you up as well. And you can inflict pain upon yourself (I don't understand the details of this, like how much pain is needed for what rank of gen). Oh, and I'm under the impression that sometimes you can simply ignore a genjutsu, like if the gen showed you a number of snakes approaching you, and you realize that the snakes aren't real due to your opponent previously summoning a goat, you can simply ignore the snakes and continue to attack your opponent, thus not wasting time on the fake snakes.
Lili-Chwan
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I actually can't find the post about the different methods of releasing genjutsu and how full body surges react to genjutsu techniques exactly. Can you find it and link it to me?
So, for now, I'll give you a couple of ways to counter a genjutsu:
First: The Kai technique. The following restrictions are set to this technique:
"Kai, otherwise known as the Genjutsu release can be used freely, once per turn as long as the user has the rank and the requirements to release the technique. Kai cannot be used on MS and EMS Genjutsu."
As taken from:
Now, please find the actual technique and paste it here. Then analyze it, please.
So, for now, I'll give you a couple of ways to counter a genjutsu:
First: The Kai technique. The following restrictions are set to this technique:
"Kai, otherwise known as the Genjutsu release can be used freely, once per turn as long as the user has the rank and the requirements to release the technique. Kai cannot be used on MS and EMS Genjutsu."
As taken from:
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Now, please find the actual technique and paste it here. Then analyze it, please.
After spending hours in search for the post, I discovered that there once was one that has been deleted. I did get a screen shot of it, though.
( Genjutsu: Kai ) - Illusion Technique: Release
Rank: C-S
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short
Chakra Cost: 15-40
Damage Points: N/A
Description: The user does one hand seal to focus and then proceeds to disturb his chakra flow by forcefully stopping it momentarily and then "spiking" his spiritual energy, unbalancing his chakra. This dispels any genjutsu set upon the user except MS Eye Techniques, Paralysis-like Genjutsu and Demonic Illusion: Toad Confrontation Chant. The effectiveness of this technique is dependent upon the skill of the user. A Jounin rank ninja can dispel Genjutsu up to C-rank. An S-class ninja can dispel Genjutsu up to B-rank. A Sannin rank ninja can dispel Genjutsu up to A-rank. A Sage rank user can dispel Genjutsu up to S-Rank. The user may use this technique through physical contact on others to dispel them from Genjutsu. The technique can only be used once per turn and the user still needs to fully follow the logic as to why he figured out it was an illusion.
Ahh, it says you forcefully *stop* your chakra for a moment. I guess this means any jutsu I'm using that requires sustaining a flow of chakra will be automatically stopped if I use Kai. I'm guessing if I had chakra sensing active, then used Kai, I can't continue sensing without re-activating it. Am I right?
I can see this won't work against MS genjutsu and paralyzing gens, along with that gen Jiraiya's toads used. I'm guessing being paralyzed in general would stop me from making the handseal for kai. (I kind remember kai needing a handseal. Not sure)
Also, I wonder if Kage ranked ninja, such as myself, can only use kai to release themselves from A-ranked Gens. Since the jutsu itself only mentions Sannins and Sages, and skips Kages.
I feel ashamed of my half assed posts when I see the wallies you guys make. >_<
You must be registered for see links
Is this the one you're looking for, Ma'am?( Genjutsu: Kai ) - Illusion Technique: Release
Rank: C-S
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short
Chakra Cost: 15-40
Damage Points: N/A
Description: The user does one hand seal to focus and then proceeds to disturb his chakra flow by forcefully stopping it momentarily and then "spiking" his spiritual energy, unbalancing his chakra. This dispels any genjutsu set upon the user except MS Eye Techniques, Paralysis-like Genjutsu and Demonic Illusion: Toad Confrontation Chant. The effectiveness of this technique is dependent upon the skill of the user. A Jounin rank ninja can dispel Genjutsu up to C-rank. An S-class ninja can dispel Genjutsu up to B-rank. A Sannin rank ninja can dispel Genjutsu up to A-rank. A Sage rank user can dispel Genjutsu up to S-Rank. The user may use this technique through physical contact on others to dispel them from Genjutsu. The technique can only be used once per turn and the user still needs to fully follow the logic as to why he figured out it was an illusion.
Ahh, it says you forcefully *stop* your chakra for a moment. I guess this means any jutsu I'm using that requires sustaining a flow of chakra will be automatically stopped if I use Kai. I'm guessing if I had chakra sensing active, then used Kai, I can't continue sensing without re-activating it. Am I right?
I can see this won't work against MS genjutsu and paralyzing gens, along with that gen Jiraiya's toads used. I'm guessing being paralyzed in general would stop me from making the handseal for kai. (I kind remember kai needing a handseal. Not sure)
Also, I wonder if Kage ranked ninja, such as myself, can only use kai to release themselves from A-ranked Gens. Since the jutsu itself only mentions Sannins and Sages, and skips Kages.
I feel ashamed of my half assed posts when I see the wallies you guys make. >_<
Lili-Chwan
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I actually never noticed that. You are right, the jutsu only mentions Sannins and Sages. Which means you can only use up to A rank Kai. I guess we're always learning.
Anywho, as for the stopping the techniques, it depends on the technique you're using, but, generally, yes, you're correct.
MS and above doujutsu genjutsu techniques are too powerful to be affected by the kai release, so they can't be countered in that manner. (This is true even if the technique used is a D rank). It is debatable if this applies to any genjutsu made by a ninja with an MS active, but, in my opinion, it only applies if the genjutsu was cast by means of their eyes. As for the paralysis genjutsu, you're right, they can't be blocked by Kai for the sole reason that they prevent the user from preforming handseals. Any technique that prevents that action prevents the usage of Kai. Yes, it needs 1 handseal.
Now, remember, it is through this technique that you're able to release genjutsu from others, so it follows the same restriction. How you do it is basically make the handseal and then touch your ally, inserting chakra into him/her. In your case, it only blocks up to A rank. In this manner, while still weak against MS jutsus (And the toad's chant), it is no longer weak against paralysis-type genjutsu, as the paralysis is in the ally, and not in you.
Also remember, you can use Kai once per turn, so you can use Kai to release yourself from a genjutsu, but can't release an ally in the same turn.
Lastly, the rank of the technique, and subsequent chakra cost, follows the rank of the genjutsu you're trying to release. So, if you're under an A ranked jutsu, you use an A ranked Kai, spending 30 chakra, etc etc.
Questions?
Lili-Chwan
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Okay now, the second method of release is pain. Tell me all about it, how it works, what it does, advantages, disadvantages, etc etc
Well, I guess that momentary feeling that accompanies damaging your body also disturbs the flow of chakra. It's known one cannot maintain his string of thoughts when in pain, he cannot keep observing his surroundings. During severe pain, for a split second, you do not see, hear, smell or feel. I'm guessing this works whether your senses are unaltered or altered.
Using the pain method has pros and cons. Of course, this saves you a jutsu's spot by not using kai as it's a freeform move. However, this is only an advantage over using the Kai technique. If you're being attacked while caught in a gen, and you waste time inflecting damage upon yourself, you might not have enough time to react to the incoming attack.
Also, the more pain the more damage done to your body, the more damage done to your body the slower and weaker you become.
I guess I can conclude that pain, just like Kai, will stop techniques requiring a continuous flow of chakra such as sensory or fire streams.
Using the pain method has pros and cons. Of course, this saves you a jutsu's spot by not using kai as it's a freeform move. However, this is only an advantage over using the Kai technique. If you're being attacked while caught in a gen, and you waste time inflecting damage upon yourself, you might not have enough time to react to the incoming attack.
Also, the more pain the more damage done to your body, the more damage done to your body the slower and weaker you become.
I guess I can conclude that pain, just like Kai, will stop techniques requiring a continuous flow of chakra such as sensory or fire streams.
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