Gai vs Third Raikage

[KidGamer65]

Because Sasuke with sit there while gai preps another Hirudora please.

i already established v4 susanoo being much above v3 so it definitely takes Hirudora easy

Read my VM.

 

[Beans2]

But Hirudora = FRS which you admitted it would take 2-3 to knock down V4 susanoo armor alone not taking the V3 susanoo underneath into account you also said that V4 susanoo would be = if not greater then edo 3rd raikage body which you claim took 0 damage even with the elemental advantage so what your saying does not add up see how easy it because i don't expose people i let them expose there self

Lol. I get what you are saying now, but I don't think it would take more than 2 FRS to knock down V4 Susanoo armour, and furthermore I think Third Raikage is a little more durable than V4 though I agree they are in the same tier. So Susanoo should be able to tank 2 Hirudoras. I guess Gai vs MS Sasuke just comes down to if Sasuke can camp in V4 long enough to outlast 7th Gate.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Being microscopic wind blades isn't relevant because all the wind blades compact together to make a giant wind sphere explosion. Temari's wind net only damaged a base Raikage. Like FRS, Hirudora doesn't deal real damage until it explodes and its explosion is not a focused attack so Raikage would tank it like he tanked FRS. And there's also the fact that Raikage is more durable when alive as opposed to Edo. Third Raikage is at least a tier above V3 Susanoo in durability.

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It is composed of countless individual wind blades... nothing is compacted together for added power. If one wind blade can't penetrate, then they all can't penetrate (assuming the targets durability is constant throughout the body). It's completely different from Hirudora, which focuses and condenses all of it's power into a single point until it can't condense anymore, then explodes. The point of explosion (it's target) would get hit the hardest with the most amount of air pressure, as the air then disperses and gets progressively weaker. Again, these two attacks aren't exactly comparable.

In regards to Temari, what difference does it make? Didn't you say FRS bypassed and removed the raition cloak due it's elemental advantage..? Then the same should apply with Temaris collaborated Wind Net. It penetrated the Raikage deeper then FRS, because the Wind Net carried much more collected power in it's few wind blades then FRS's countless individual microscopic wind blades. And if the 3rd Raikage is at least a tier above V3 Susano'o durability, how is he supposedly tanking Hirudora with little to no damage, when this technique completely erased V3 susano'o from existence? That's implying he is much more then just one tier above it.

You dont even know me saying im wrong per usual what? child stawp



I read the manga and i read it well, Not once did i say it would renergise Gai i said once he reached the limits with his 6 gates opening the 7 gates would make that a whole new form so him being fatigued from 6 gates would not even matter anymore also it still does not change the fact that a Hirudora from 7th gates would make him weakened the only reasons he did not feint or become weak and feeble is because he held back Hirudora's power to keep kisame alive unlike when he used its full power that is V3 level so again your point because moot.



Gai was standing up when he used Hirudora against Madara and when he did it against Jin maddy so i dont know what your talking about. Put it like this the gai that used 8 gates vs a fully rested gai using 8th gate would stalemate each other because once the gate is opened or release fatigue is thrown out the window briefly we seen how long it takes gai to recover after hirudora normally yet against Madara he he whipped on 8 gates the next chapter,

Where has it been stated that a single Morning Peacock usage equates to the 6th gates limit...? A single Hirudora is far from the 7th gates limit, so the entire notion is unsupported. You're very much implying that going from the 6th to the 7th gate would grant Gai the ability to re-energies from any fatigue caused by the 6th gate, despite saying you're not. So you don't even make sense in the first place. Entering a higher stage in gates exerts more of the bodies energy/chakra... because you're literally releasing the bodies chakra restraints, and in return, you gain more physical power. You're not boosting energy (barring the 2nd gate), you're exhausting more energy

Again. Gai used Hirudora despite being at his absolute limit prior to firing it off. Thus, it doesn't require a whole lot of energy out of Gai. No point in arguing against this.

 

[Beans2]

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It is composed of countless individual wind blades... nothing is compacted together for added power. If one wind blade can't penetrate, then they all can't penetrate (assuming the targets durability is constant throughout the body). It's completely different from Hirudora, which focuses and condenses all of it's power into a single point until it can't condense anymore, then explodes. The point of explosion (it's target) would get hit the hardest with the most amount of air pressure, as the air then disperses and gets progressively weaker. Again, these two attacks aren't exactly comparable.

This isn't true. All the wind needles are compacted into one explosion because they are all hitting the target at the same time, they aren't seperate blows. I don't get why you're bringing up the fact that it is made up of individual wind blades as if that changes the attack power of the jutsu or makes it easier for the Third Raikage to tank.

Just like Rasenshuriken, Hirudora doesn't do significant damage to the target UNTIL it explodes. Its explosion is not anymore focused than an FRS explosion, and the two attacks have a similar level of attack power by feats and scaling. I can back up this underlined statement if you need me to. Raikage would tank Hirudora similar to how he tanked FRS because the way the two techniques work does not change the simple facts:

1. Hirudora and Rasenshuriken are more or less equal in attack power.
2. Rasenshuriken has an elemental advantage against cloaked Raikage. Hirudora does not.
3. Third Raikage tanked Rasenshuriken with no damage.

The two attacks are absolutely comparable.

In regards to Temari, what difference does it make? Didn't you say FRS bypassed and removed the raition cloak due it's elemental advantage..? Then the same should apply with Temaris collaborated Wind Net. It penetrated the Raikage deeper then FRS, because the Wind Net carried much more collected power in it's few wind blades then FRS's countless individual microscopic wind blades. And if the 3rd Raikage is at least a tier above V3 Susano'o durability, how is he supposedly tanking Hirudora with little to no damage, when this technique completely erased V3 susano'o from existence? That's implying he is much more then just one tier above it.

I hope you are not suggesting that Wind Cast Net can damage a cloaked Raikage when Rasenshuriken failed to do so. While WCN is a more focused attack than FRS, the vast gap in between KCM FRS and Wind Cast Net is more than enough to tell you that the reason one attack left a cut in him while the other left no visible damage is clearly because they are two different versions of the Raikage (base and shrouded.) Just because an attack has an elemental advantage does not mean that it is strong enough to overpower the other technique also.

Bold: not really. Depends on how you define "tiers". KCM FRS would also obliterate a V3 Susanoo, but Raikage can tank that with no damage. Kurama's Bijuu Dama would obliterate Madara's V4 Susanoo, but PS tanked it with no damage.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

This isn't true. All the wind needles are compacted into one explosion because they are all hitting the target at the same time, they aren't seperate blows. I don't get why you're bringing up the fact that it is made up of individual wind blades as if that changes the attack power of the jutsu or makes it easier for the Third Raikage to tank.

Just like Rasenshuriken, Hirudora doesn't do significant damage to the target UNTIL it explodes. Its explosion is not anymore focused than an FRS explosion, and the two attacks have a similar level of attack power by feats and scaling. I can back up this underlined statement if you need me to. Raikage would tank Hirudora similar to how he tanked FRS because the way the two techniques work does not change the simple facts:

1. Hirudora and Rasenshuriken are more or less equal in attack power.
2. Rasenshuriken has an elemental advantage against cloaked Raikage. Hirudora does not.
3. Third Raikage tanked Rasenshuriken with no damage.

The two attacks are absolutely comparable.

Now that I'm actually on a computer..

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That is false. They clearly don't all make contact at the same time. They are individual wind blades, and hit the target individually at different times. Why do I bring this up? Because, again, FRS and Hirudora are two different jutsu, with two different mechanics. One is simply a countless amount of wind blades that attacks on a cellular level, while the other is an extremely condensed wind pressured explosion that eradicates it's target. You can't just say the two are comparable, without first proving that these two attacks have similar attack power; because basing it off of their mechanics alone, they're not comparable at all. So, yes, I am asking you to back up that statement with actual concrete comparable feats.

I hope you are not suggesting that Wind Cast Net can damage a cloaked Raikage when Rasenshuriken failed to do so. While WCN is a more focused attack than FRS, the vast gap in between KCM FRS and Wind Cast Net is more than enough to tell you that the reason one attack left a cut in him while the other left no visible damage is clearly because they are two different versions of the Raikage (base and shrouded.) Just because an attack has an elemental advantage does not mean that it is strong enough to overpower the other technique also.

Bold: not really. Depends on how you define "tiers". KCM FRS would also obliterate a V3 Susanoo, but Raikage can tank that with no damage. Kurama's Bijuu Dama would obliterate Madara's V4 Susanoo, but PS tanked it with no damage.

I was only going by your very logic - FRS bypassed the raiton armor due to it's elemental superiority. As I showed you above, the entirety of the technique does not hit the target all at once. The wind blades all individually and

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make contact.. That is why the entire wind sphere sits there for a good couple of seconds before dissipating. So some of the wind blades had to of made contact with the 3rd Raikages skin, after the cloak was removed; yet it still failed to penetrate his skin, while a collaborated WCN did penetrate in the area that all it's power was focused. If you're getting hit by Hirudora directly, then you're getting hit by all of it's focused air pressure directly, before it dissipates away.

 

[RedRobin]

Yeah it very clear FRS works based on consecutive hits or tiny wind blades not all at the same time.

 

[Manda II]

Yeah it very clear FRS works based on consecutive hits or tiny wind blades not all at the same time.

Except that's a big misunderstanding from you guys. Rasenshuriken blades all hit the opponent simultaneously..

Rasengan is already a

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attack that releases its energy by exploding. RS is a super sized version + shape manipulation + Futon chakra. Futon chakra boosts its destructive power that was already raised by shape manipulation. The wind shuriken changes into micro blades that attack the enemy all at once so the energy is being added up to what is already a focused attack which explodes and releases energy.

Databook 3 - Fuuton: RasenShuriken
Wind Release: Spiralling Shuriken (風遁・螺旋手裏剣, Fuuton: Rasen Shuriken)
Ninjutsu, S-rank, Offensive, Short range (0-5m)


The wind chakra whirling around the "spiral" is changed into countless blades, all striking the target at once.

Source:

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(remove the _)

 

[KidGamer65]

Except that's a big misunderstanding from you guys. Rasenshuriken blades all hit the opponent simultaneously..

Rasengan is already a

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attack that releases its energy by exploding. RS is a super sized version + shape manipulation + Futon chakra. Futon chakra boosts its destructive power that was already raised by shape manipulation. The wind shuriken changes into micro blades that attack the enemy all at once so the energy is being added up to what is already a focused attack which explodes and releases energy.

Not to mention it'd literally make zero sense for the individual wind blades to hit at different times when they are released at the same time at the same velocity with the same amount of force behind it from the same exact source. Then there's the fact that if FRS's wind blades weren't hitting at the same time, it wouldn't be able to do the kind of damage it has done to the environment.

 

[RedRobin]

Except that's a big misunderstanding from you guys. Rasenshuriken blades all hit the opponent simultaneously..

Rasengan is already a

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attack that releases its energy by exploding. RS is a super sized version + shape manipulation + Futon chakra. Futon chakra boosts its destructive power that was already raised by shape manipulation. The wind shuriken changes into micro blades that attack the enemy all at once so the energy is being added up to what is already a focused attack which explodes and releases energy.

Dear lord man, did I really have to edit that panel.....

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Reds have hit target, blues have yet to hit target.....They dont all hit at the same time....

 

[EZQ]

Dear lord man, did I really have to edit that panel.....

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Reds have hit target, blues have yet to hit target.....They dont all hit at the same time....

The difference of time between them should've been near instant

 

[KidGamer65]

Dear lord man, did I really have to edit that panel.....

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Reds have hit target, blues have yet to hit target.....They dont all hit at the same time....

So you are using a diagram illustrated by someone who hasn't even seen the tech as evidence as if it trumped:

1. Common sense.
2. Physics.
3. Databook statements.

:lol The diagram is there to show the effect of the jutsu on the body and nothing more. Then there's the fact that the distance between them and how fast they move individually is so minuscule that it's completely irrelevant whether or not this diagram is a legit depiction of how the jutsu tears apart it's enemies. Same reason why Shinsuusenju's barrage of punches can hurt PS despite a single punch being unable to do so.

 

[RedRobin]

The difference of time between them should've been near instant

So you are using a diagram illustrated by someone who hasn't even seen the tech as evidence as if it trumped:

1. Common sense.
2. Physics.
3. Databook statements.

:lol The diagram is there to show the effect of the jutsu on the body and nothing more. Then there's the fact that the distance between them and how fast they move individually is so minuscule that it's completely irrelevant whether or not this diagram is a legit depiction of how the jutsu tears apart it's enemies. Same reason why Shinsuusenju's barrage of punches can hurt PS despite a single punch being unable to do so.

Nope I am using the diagram Kishi gave us to see how the technique works.

Obviously that minuscule time between each slice is enough to the point where the 3rd's body is hardly phased. See if its as you said then the blades should have hit at the same time definitely forming a big enough wind slice like Temari and the shinobi did which cut him way deeper than any blade from FRS but it didnt.

 

[Curse Mark]

The difference of time between them should've been near instant

You can see in the scan of it hitting kakuzu that it wasnt instantaneous

 

[Beans2]

Now that I'm actually on a computer..

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That is false. They clearly don't all make contact at the same time. They are individual wind blades, and hit the target individually at different times. Why do I bring this up? Because, again, FRS and Hirudora are two different jutsu, with two different mechanics. One is simply a countless amount of wind blades that attacks on a cellular level, while the other is an extremely condensed wind pressured explosion that eradicates it's target. You can't just say the two are comparable, without first proving that these two attacks have similar attack power; because basing it off of their mechanics alone, they're not comparable at all. So, yes, I am asking you to back up that statement with actual concrete comparable feats.

Well Manda II and KidGamer65 already explained why this scan doesn't work. That is a scan of Tsunade visualizing the jutsu based on Kakuzu's autopsy, not an actual picture of the jutsu taking effect; Databook says the needles hit all at once; the time difference between them all hitting would be so miniscule anyway that it doesn't matter. You said that "If one wind blade can't penetrate, then they all can't penetrate" but I have a hard time believing that a microscopic wind blade would be able to pierce straight through something really durable like Susanoo.

As for the two jutsu having similar attack power overall, here is why I think so. Hirudora's best feat is destroying V3 Susanoo so we shouldn't assume it can destroy stuff more durable than that. By feats FRS can also destroy V3 Susanoo.

-Danzo's Baku enhanced fuuton blew a hole through V3 Susanoo.

-KCM FRS>>>Baku's fuuton in destructive power. FRS made a giant explosion [

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] indicating its power is enough to destroy small mountains, similar to Kirin (Chou Oodama Rasengan is stated by DB to be capable of hollowing out a mountain, and FRS is canonically stronger than 25 COR.) The size of the explosion in that panel looks about half as big as the Chibaku Tensei crater.

-That same Chibaku Tensei could only restrain 8 Tailed Kurama for a little bit until it broke out [

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]. Half Kurama which is stronger than KN8 was held down and weakened by SM FRS [

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] and completely lost control of its chakra when it was hit [

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].

Based on these feats I think FRS can obliterate V3 Susanoo like how Hirudora did.

I was only going by your very logic - FRS bypassed the raiton armor due to it's elemental superiority. As I showed you above, the entirety of the technique does not hit the target all at once. The wind blades all individually and

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make contact.. That is why the entire wind sphere sits there for a good couple of seconds before dissipating. So some of the wind blades had to of made contact with the 3rd Raikages skin, after the cloak was removed; yet it still failed to penetrate his skin, while a collaborated WCN did penetrate in the area that all it's power was focused. If you're getting hit by Hirudora directly, then you're getting hit by all of it's focused air pressure directly, before it dissipates away.

The part about wind needles not hitting all at the same time has already been addressed. @Bold doesn't Hirudora's explosion do exactly the same thing? Even if it's not all completely instant, they all hit within a couple seconds. I don't believe Hirudora does absolutely all the damage it does in a split second, or at least not significantly faster than FRS. That would put its attack speed on par with something like Jinton, which disintegrates almost instantly.

 

[Curse Mark]

*Ahem* You can see in the scan of it hitting kakuzu that it wasnt instantaneous

 

[KidGamer65]

Nope I am using the diagram Kishi gave us to see how the technique works.

Obviously that minuscule time between each slice is enough to the point where the 3rd's body is hardly phased. See if its as you said then the blades should have hit at the same time definitely forming a big enough wind slice like Temari and the shinobi did which cut him way deeper than any blade from FRS but it didnt.

Just your baseless assumption backed by no real evidence. If damage piles up for a barrage of punches, then it'd obviously pile up for Rasen Shuriken's wind blades. Stop using Temari as evidence when Raikage wasn't cloaked against her.

Thinking that FRS only hits with individual microscopic blades makes zero sense when:

-It vaporizes the tops of large rock structures. Shown when Naruto was training

-Cuts through the rock used for CT, which was heavily compacted.

Unless you think a microscopic wind blade can do that, then FRS is ALL of the wind blades hitting at once.

 

[RedRobin]

Just your baseless assumption backed by no real evidence. If damage piles up for a barrage of punches, then it'd obviously pile up for Rasen Shuriken's wind blades. Stop using Temari as evidence when Raikage wasn't cloaked against her.

Thinking that FRS only hits with individual microscopic blades makes zero sense when:

-It vaporizes the tops of large rock structures. Shown when Naruto was training

-Cuts through the rock used for CT, which was heavily compacted.

Unless you think a microscopic wind blade can do that, then FRS is ALL of the wind blades hitting at once.

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You are wrong. The red and black blades may be close to each other and will hit the target with a very tiny interval of time between them but the blue one is far off compared to them and will be hitting the target after some time so again no the attacks are not all at the same time.

I just expanded the image as millions of blades will be spread out. So just think and compare the red blade to a blade farther than the blue one you will see an even bigger time interval between the 1st blade and the nth blade.

 

[Beans2]

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You are wrong. The red and black blades may be close to each other and will hit with a very tiny interval of time between them but the blue one is far off compared to them and will be hitting after some time so again no the attacks are not all at the same time.

I just expanded the image as millions of blades will be spread out. So just think compare the red blade to a blade farther than the blue one.

Did you really just create your own manga scan...?

 

[RedRobin]

Did you really just create your own manga scan...?

I expanded what the image would look like if we saw more.....

I just said it in my post too. I guess snakes cant read.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Nothing wrong with making your own scans. I do it all the time.

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