Gaara & Shikamaru VS Hidan & Kakazu

[genii96]

1) Doesn't change the fact that he is fast enough to recover after getting hit by Raikiri and run to Kakashi as Kakashi is running with another Raikiri. There were still plenty of trees left in the area behind Lee and Gaara and the ones that were engulfed weren't fully covered in sand.

2) Bone spear doesn't have the same speed and force as Gian or Raikiri. One would assume that if 2 piercing attacks with the same element clashed and canceled out that they are of similar power levels. V2 raiton armor increases the Raikage's speed and reflexes, what does this have to do with raikiri. Furthermore, Chidori still pierced through the Raikage's chest and Sasuke's hand was lodged halfway through him, which impressed him.

Chidori from Sasuke was able to pierce through a giant steel water tank when he was a genin.

3) Temari was right next to Gaara... The fodder was near them as well

Tenten stated Neji's Rotation to be an absolute defense that is better than Gaara's do you agree with her because she said it? Naruto has even less credibility because he had barely seen Susanoo in action nor has he seen Gaara's sand doing anything since part 1, but of course he's gonna hype him up.

If Gaara blocks Gian in front of him (assuming his sand is capable of doing this in the first place) Kakuzu simply goes around it.

That narutobase link means nothing, it's almost exactly like what it says on the wiki. I'm expecting an actual scan or text from the databook that says this. I believe Joki already posted the stuff it says from the databook earlier in the thread.

4) I'm not saying that fire will burn through the sand. The wind by itself is already a highly pressurized attack capable of knocking trees over and obliterating them completely, combined with the fire it's even more deadly. actually here's the databook scan for it, since I'm capable of giving proof.

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1) kakuzu didnt recover from anything,he died and his other heart in those masks at his back instantly revived him,and kakashi didnt just instantly charge at hidan,he stopped,the said 'it's your turn' and then charged at hidan,before being ambushed by kakuzu,and the distance between them wasnt that great.

2) when in cs2,kimi's bones naturally become stronger than tempered steel,bone spear has the penetrative power greater than tempered steel as it is his strongest bone,and i am pretty sure bone spear>CE sasuke's chidori,so the fact that gaara not only blocked his attack,but shattered his strongest bone is proof that it was even much stronger than tempered steel at 13, the raikage's raiton shroud has concentrated chakra so much that it is visible to the human eye,just like rakiri,and chidori pierced v1 and sasuke's hand didnt go anywhere through him,his hand was barely hurting him,he praised sasuke for touching him,his hand didnt do anything aside from pinch the raikage,v2 was said to be at bijuu level concentrated chakra,so the fact that gaara stopped it easily,alongside enton spikes is a very high feat,seeing as a backhand easily broke ribcage susanoo.

3) temari and the others came back after the meteor hit,they all escaped the initial impact point;here is gaara ordering his division to run

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here is naruto and dodai running away as well,

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this is gaara and onoki stoping the first meteor,as you can see,all the shinobi are at a far away distance,and only the kages are under the meteor.

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,after the impact,she as well as the others who survived came back,as you can see,she is checking up on gaara,whose sand blocked the meteor as the sand wall is above him. Tenten compared neji's kaiten to CE gaara's sand defence which wasnt that great until SRA,in which his sand obviously improved immensely as lee noted,naruto saw the 3rd raikage and proclaimed gaara's defence better.

4) attacking and defendng at once is easy to gaara,especially if he one panels a sand tsunami like he has already done before,so coming at gaara isnt really a good idea,especially with sand and shika's shadow by his side.

5) wind is weak to fire,if the masks shoot with eachother,the wind simply fuels the fire,meaning it's just becomes a stronger version of the fire jutsu,which isnt gonna be a problem for gaara's sand. Joki's versions and nb's are basically equal,joki's say that it's solid defence is unmatched and blocks all attacks,nb's says it is virtually indestructable,both credit gian for piercing even rock.

 

[Megan Terumi]

Took me a while to reply because I've been too busy to be able to sit down and type out a counter.

1) Kakuzu had to recover from gettin raikiri in the heart, plus the fact that it was a closer distance makes it more impressive since naturally it would be harder to react at a closer distance.

2) Proof for this CS2 stuff you're talking about?

3) Onoki was the one directly under the meteor. Madara was right in the area of effect. Here's everyone when the meteor stopped.

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The sand wall in front of Gaara plus the first meteor cushioned the impact of the second. Though, I guess you could say that the shards of rock from the crushed meteors fell on and killed several shinobi.

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Because Gaara had a sand shield he wasn't as badly affected.

CE gaara had the sphere of sand and the automatic defense so he did have an ultimate defense. Tenten didn't see the sphere of sand up to that point. Naruto has seen even less of Kazekage Gaara and less of Susanoo, which Sasuke proclaimed to be a better defense.

4) Sorta irrelevant to long distance lightning spears

5) Except this isn't any ordinary fire attack...

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See those trees?
Those are the same trees that dwarfed Kakashi and Hidan:

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yeeah it's pretty huge. And the wind jutsu could honestly do the job by itself, I'm just adding a little extra here.

Unmatched defense =/= it's invincible. This isn't Susanoo. (And even then Susanoo has some weaknesses but those are irrelevant to this match)

 

[GiantShuriken]

Hidan and Kakuzu don't have the firepower to penetrate absolute defense. And even if they did, Gaara has been shown to have lots of stamina.. He took like 3 chidoris and was still able to get a tie with Naruto in a fight. That is very impressive.

Gaara/Shikamaru mid difficulty. Gaara will basically machine gun barrage Kakuzu's hearts. Shikamaru has already shown he can get Hidan in shadow bind jutsu solo. Once he does that, Gaara can yank his head off with sand.

 

[ltachi Uchiha]

no knowledge means Hidan 1 shots SHikamaru

Kakuzu is stronger than Gaara

 

[genii96]

Took me a while to reply because I've been too busy to be able to sit down and type out a counter.

1) Kakuzu had to recover from gettin raikiri in the heart, plus the fact that it was a closer distance makes it more impressive since naturally it would be harder to react at a closer distance.

2) Proof for this CS2 stuff you're talking about?

3) Onoki was the one directly under the meteor. Madara was right in the area of effect. Here's everyone when the meteor stopped.

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The sand wall in front of Gaara plus the first meteor cushioned the impact of the second. Though, I guess you could say that the shards of rock from the crushed meteors fell on and killed several shinobi.

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Because Gaara had a sand shield he wasn't as badly affected.

CE gaara had the sphere of sand and the automatic defense so he did have an ultimate defense. Tenten didn't see the sphere of sand up to that point. Naruto has seen even less of Kazekage Gaara and less of Susanoo, which Sasuke proclaimed to be a better defense.

4) Sorta irrelevant to long distance lightning spears

5) Except this isn't any ordinary fire attack...

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See those trees?
Those are the same trees that dwarfed Kakashi and Hidan:

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yeeah it's pretty huge. And the wind jutsu could honestly do the job by itself, I'm just adding a little extra here.

Unmatched defense =/= it's invincible. This isn't Susanoo. (And even then Susanoo has some weaknesses but those are irrelevant to this match)

no probs.

1) when kakuzu died the second time,and his heart was restored by the lightening mask,he got up without any problem,when he was hit with the raikiri,the hearts were already on his back,so they could have instantly recovered him,also kakashi took some time before charging at hidan,gicing kakuzu time to ambush him from behind,kakashi didnt even run very fast.

2)

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. It even says that the bones are impenetrable and that they are stronger than steel,and can resist and cut through chakra blades,this is basically for base kimimaro.

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This is the drill used against gaara,it's said to be the highest possible solidity and absolute strongestand hardest weapon,and kimi used it in cs2. It shattered like glass against gaara's sand.

3) both onoki and gaara were in the area of the meteor as they stayed back to stop it,while madara and muu watched,onoki probably flew out when he saw the second meteor crashing but want fast enough to get fully away,or else he would have been killed,as madara was destroyed with his susanoo still active and onoki was found a distance away from the initial impact point. Gaara's sand shield blocked the 2 meteors,as the first one still did some damage as onoki couldnt have completely lightened that meteor,and gaara had a huge sand arm underneath,holding it inplace before the other one crashed down,and gaara took minor injuries from the fight while madara in his susanoo was destroyed. Whether the meteor slowed the other one down dosent change the fact that madara in his susanoo was wiped out while gaara walked out.

Gaara's defence in the entire CE wasnt that impressive,his sand armour was actually more impresive back then,it became truly impressive by the SRA where it kept up with kimimaro,blocked his strongest bone drill and shattered it etc. Sasuke claimed his incomplete susanoo was greater than gaara's defence,however c3 and the meteor event proves otherwise,not to mention gaara already blocking 5 attacks from superior susanoos at the same time,and naruto saw the 3rd raikage's defencive abilities and still claimed gaara's was better,people just dont say that stuff out of the blue.

4) the spears have to actually hit gaara to hurt him,so it's relevant.

5) the highest level fire release couldnt burn through the sand,anything lower wont as well,and gaara simply blocks the fire infront of him with a sand wall,the same with the wind mask,and gaara can attack the masks with arms of sand easily,and his sand is much faster than those masks. Sand tsunami is even bigger than that anyway.

Unmatched defence=closest to invincible,the databooks say that gian can pierce through rock,
rock is nowhere near gaara defence which is harder than steel which is said to have an unmatched defence.

 

[Simple Math]

either way

 

[Megan Terumi]

1) when kakuzu died the second time,and his heart was restored by the lightening mask,he got up without any problem,when he was hit with the raikiri,the hearts were already on his back,so they could have instantly recovered him,also kakashi took some time before charging at hidan,gicing kakuzu time to ambush him from behind,kakashi didnt even run very fast.

He had to because it's essential to build up speed when using Chidori and Raikiri. Like the first time he used Chidori in the gaiden against the rock ninja he crossed the forest immediately.

2)

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,

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. It even says that the bones are impenetrable and that they are stronger than steel,and can resist and cut through chakra blades,this is basically for base kimimaro.

I'd rather see a manga or databook source than something someone wrote on the Wiki.

This is the drill used against gaara,it's said to be the highest possible solidity and absolute strongestand hardest weapon,and kimi used it in cs2. It shattered like glass against gaara's sand.

Kimimaro also warned him that it was the thickest bone in his body so Gaara had time to prepare himself whereas the lightning mask won't give him a warning. It also doesn't have much momentum behind it since Kimimaro was standing there, try running at something and stabbing it and compare it to lunging forward and stabbing it. And the spears can simply move around the shield since it doesn't protect Gaara's entire body, with something like Sand Sphere they would just pierce through, which we already saw with Sasuke.

3) both onoki and gaara were in the area of the meteor as they stayed back to stop it,while madara and muu watched,onoki probably flew out when he saw the second meteor crashing but want fast enough to get fully away,or else he would have been killed,as madara was destroyed with his susanoo still active and onoki was found a distance away from the initial impact point. Gaara's sand shield blocked the 2 meteors,as the first one still did some damage as onoki couldnt have completely lightened that meteor,and gaara had a huge sand arm underneath,holding it inplace before the other one crashed down,and gaara took minor injuries from the fight while madara in his susanoo was destroyed. Whether the meteor slowed the other one down dosent change the fact that madara in his susanoo was wiped out while gaara walked out.

Onoki did not fly out, he was still unde the first meteor. Gaara clearly protected himself from the shards of the meteor as I showed on panel.

Gaara's defence in the entire CE wasnt that impressive,his sand armour was actually more impresive back then,it became truly impressive by the SRA where it kept up with kimimaro,blocked his strongest bone drill and shattered it etc. Sasuke claimed his incomplete susanoo was greater than gaara's defence,however c3 and the meteor event proves otherwise,not to mention gaara already blocking 5 attacks from superior susanoos at the same time,and naruto saw the 3rd raikage's defencive abilities and still claimed gaara's was better,people just dont say that stuff out of the blue.

Gaara was in a desert against Deidara... He had a huge amount of sand already prepped against the meteor and had Onoki's help in cushioning the impact of the meteor. Again Naruto barely saw Gaara fight at that point and barely saw Madara's Susanoo in action, he's an unreliable source of information given the context.,

4) the spears have to actually hit gaara to hurt him,so it's relevant.

5) the highest level fire release couldnt burn through the sand,anything lower wont as well,and gaara simply blocks the fire infront of him with a sand wall,the same with the wind mask,and gaara can attack the masks with arms of sand easily,and his sand is much faster than those masks. Sand tsunami is even bigger than that anyway.

I'm not saying its going to burn through the sand, you see, there are fire attacks with more size and force than Amaterasu. Sasuke's dragon fire, for instance, broke through the roof of the Uchiha building. The size of the attack is enough to pressure Gaara.

The masks can each move around and protect themselves, if Gaara tries to block the wind mask for instance it can shoot a giant ball of wind at his sand which would also cause Gaara to defend himself.

Unmatched defence=closest to invincible,the databooks say that gian can pierce through rock,
rock is nowhere near gaara defence which is harder than steel which is said to have an unmatched defence.

Except it didnt say that Gian can only pierce through rock, and Gian was shown matching Kakashis Raikiri on panel, a weaker version of which pierced through a steel tank and Gaara's Sand Sphere in part 1.

 

[GiantShuriken]

without intel shikamaru will get the two trapped in shadow possession. Gaara then surrounds them with sand and rips them apart limb by limb piece by piece while shikamaru switches to shadow sewing and joins in on the fun.

Shikamaru + Gaara high diff.

 

[Megan Terumi]

without intel shikamaru will get the two trapped in shadow possession. Gaara then surrounds them with sand and rips them apart limb by limb piece by piece while shikamaru switches to shadow sewing and joins in on the fun.

Shikamaru + Gaara high diff.

Isn't it the other way around? Shikamaru couldn't do anything to Hidan, let alone Kakuzu, when he first met him.

 

[MystNin13]

I say Hidan is immobilized in first 30 seconds of fight and Garra and Shikamaru have a real bitch of a time trying to beat Kakazu but eventually theyll win. They would make a really good team though +rep

 

[genii96]

He had to because it's essential to build up speed when using Chidori and Raikiri. Like the first time he used Chidori in the gaiden against the rock ninja he crossed the forest immediately.

I'd rather see a manga or databook source than something someone wrote on the Wiki.

Kimimaro also warned him that it was the thickest bone in his body so Gaara had time to prepare himself whereas the lightning mask won't give him a warning. It also doesn't have much momentum behind it since Kimimaro was standing there, try running at something and stabbing it and compare it to lunging forward and stabbing it. And the spears can simply move around the shield since it doesn't protect Gaara's entire body, with something like Sand Sphere they would just pierce through, which we already saw with Sasuke.

Onoki did not fly out, he was still unde the first meteor. Gaara clearly protected himself from the shards of the meteor as I showed on panel.

Gaara was in a desert against Deidara... He had a huge amount of sand already prepped against the meteor and had Onoki's help in cushioning the impact of the meteor. Again Naruto barely saw Gaara fight at that point and barely saw Madara's Susanoo in action, he's an unreliable source of information given the context.,

I'm not saying its going to burn through the sand, you see, there are fire attacks with more size and force than Amaterasu. Sasuke's dragon fire, for instance, broke through the roof of the Uchiha building. The size of the attack is enough to pressure Gaara.

The masks can each move around and protect themselves, if Gaara tries to block the wind mask for instance it can shoot a giant ball of wind at his sand which would also cause Gaara to defend himself.

Except it didnt say that Gian can only pierce through rock, and Gian was shown matching Kakashis Raikiri on panel, a weaker version of which pierced through a steel tank and Gaara's Sand Sphere in part 1.

1) that works for chidori,raikiri has far more concentration,and hence dosent need much speed,hence it becomes and S class version of chidori,kakashi cut a lightening bolt in half with it,was he building up speed to hit lightening that moves in a split second?,and hidan's body isnt a strong object,even if he was at kissing distance,it would go through hidan's chest easily.

2)kimimaro used a drill,it's momentum went full then it broke to pieces,he stabbed,then began to drill continously,that has high momentum,he dosent need speed,try stabbing something,then try drilling through it constantly and tell me which leaves more damage. Chidori broke a small sand sphere of sand,that gaara didnt add extra sand,or add mnerals to increase it's defence,gaara fought sasuke with gourd sand only,kakuzu can sand the spears aound the sand wall and hit gaara,he can't control it like gaara,when did he ever do that?,and gaara's sand cover his entire body,so they can go anywhere,it wont do any good and gaara reacted to instant explosions so gian isnt a problem.

3)onoki had to have flown out to survive it,he was under the first when it stopped,he saw he couldnt stop the second,and flew out,if he stayed under the first,then he would have been buried under the meteors,he was found some distance away,so he was caught in the blast. The meteors were perfectly stacked ontop each other after the dust settled,there were barely any shards,and even if they were,it was enogh to wipe out madara in his susanoo and shinobi who ran from the blast,while gaara walked out.

Gaara an easily turn soil into a sand box faster than he can do rock,which he did in one panel,so he can easily create more sand than he used for the meteor,and the sand that blocked him wasnt even that big,the big thing was the sand arm he made to stop the meteor. Gaara was able to bring out all that sand from the dessert and intercept a bomb which had already begun to explode and protect everyone,gaara can easily use a large amount of sand to protect himself. Naruto had his reasons for saying it,he wouldnt hype up someone's defence as better than another person who tanked what(at that time) was basically his strongest tech easily,especially naruto,since it was his tech that was tanked,whether naruto saw gaara off-panel,or heard something off-panel,or kishi is saying something,the fact is,that naruto claimed gaara's defence better than A's dad,and i think taking 5 complete susanoo swords without looking and getting back up at least matches up to the hype.

4)gaara can easily block the part of the attack infront of him,team 8 survived the fire mask attack without kakashi,gaara can easily make a sand tsunami to counter and crush the fire mask.gaara's auto defence deals with chakra shots from the mask while gaara captures them.

5)he has blocked stronger attacks than gian,sand wall>gian. V2 rairon armour is easily stronger than gian,and a little sand stopped it,if gaara uses a large amount of sand to protect himelf,i dont see an issue