Gaara of the Desert

[Jinrou]

Sabaku no Gaara​

Gaara created more sand during his fight with Kimimaro. But that wasn't his first time showcasing that ability. Gaara uses

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to control his sand but only used hand seals when creating more sand.

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There is a common misconception that Gai swiped Gaara's sand in the chuunin exams but such swipe wasn't shown in the manga.

Gaara was looking to kill Lee here but his sand stopped like it had hit a wall

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The anime then made it look like Gai swiped his sand but how does swiping a hand in a single straight right-left movement disperse a wall of sand? Also notice the clump of sand in front of Gai's shoulder.

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If he did swipe his hand how does that clump survive the 'super swipe'? That's probably because there was no swipe and Gaara dispersed the sand himself to see what was stopping it from advancing.

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According to what is implied by the third databook, Gaara lost to Deidara because he wasn't trying to kill him?

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The caption below the image of his eyes implies this ^^

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Another misconception is Gaara fought Muu and trollkage in a desert full of sand. That is actually wrong because it was a rocky area and a number of things support this.

Aerial view of the entire location:

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If there really was great amounts of sand, Gaara's sand shouldn't have been active when trying to stop the meteor

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We clearly see their foothold isn't sandy here

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Might not mean much but even the animators believed that area wasn't sandy

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This all proves Gaara lives up to his alias and corroborates the point he made in part 1

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Gaara is truly awesome!

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[King Of Pop]

i think you misinterpret the first scan in the gai point. the sand was advancing to lee, it didnt stop. manga is not animated so it might look that way. gai just simply jumped in the nick of time. as the rest of the point, those are simply remnants of the swiped sand, gai swatting it away doesnt mean all the sand would suddenly disappear and his hand position is proof that it was indeed swatted away.

but this is my understanding s i might be wrong

for the deidara point, i dont think you can use that as an excuse because

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Deidara himself didnt have intent to kill which made things harder as he says.

 

[neosmith500]

So u think Gai just shunshined between the sand and stood there like a Tank which resulted in the sand stopping? I dont agree since it was shown that Gai swiped the sand and dispersed it similar to wat Sasuke did to his sand clone but since Gai>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sasuke/Lee in physical prowess he was able to swat the whole bulk away with ease.

Also remember that Gaara's sand at that point wasn't hardened like his Auto Sand would normally be so Gai would have zero problem with soft sand like this.

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Heck i see Gai easily punching through his hardened Auto sand neg diff here.

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[Detonator99]

Damn straight! and people use the argument that sasuke hebi sasuke is kage level because he was able to defeat deidara because he has defeated gaara lel.

 

[King Of Pop]

So u think Gai just shunshined between the sand and stood there like a Tank which resulted in the sand stopping? I dont agree since it was shown that Gai swiped the sand and dispersed it similar to wat Sasuke did to his sand clone but since Gai>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sasuke/Lee in physical prowess he was able to swat the whole bulk away with ease.

Also remember that Gaara's sand at that point wasn't hardened like his Auto Sand would normally be so Gai would have zero problem with soft sand like this.

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Heck i see Gai easily punching through his hardened Auto sand neg diff here.

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yeah this. basically that scan is just showing us base Gai is on another level physically to lee and sasuke. sasuke did hype him up as being above kakashi afterall

 

[Jinrou]

i think you misinterpret the first scan in the gai point. the sand was advancing to lee, it didnt stop. manga is not animated so it might look that way. gai just simply jumped in the nick of time. as the rest of the point, those are simply remnants of the swiped sand, gai swatting it away doesnt mean all the sand would suddenly disappear and his hand position is proof that it was indeed swatted away.

but this is my understanding s i might be wrong

for the deidara point, i dont think you can use that as an excuse because

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Deidara himself didnt have intent to kill which made things harder as he says.

lol..don't worry about it..I might be wrong too...but a friend who is a manga only reader thought Gai just came in between to shield Lee which made me go look back at it.

But if you look closely at the bottom panel of the first scan, the middle part of the sand wall seems to have come to a stop and splashed over and around the barrier it hit. Similar to how waves move when they reach an obstacle.

Also i know it won't all be swatted away...but at the very least, the path in which he swiped should be clear and we clearly see a clump in front of his shoulder.

Lee's head was on Gai's right side..So if he were to use himself as a barrier, he'll have to stretch out his hand to effectively form a barrier that shields Lee's head from the sand too.

As for Deidara, its 50-50 tbh..I never understood why Gaara opted to entirely crush his hand when he could have at least held him down and used more of his sand to catch up and use sand coffin. Much like what he wanted to do with Lee.

So u think Gai just shunshined between the sand and stood there like a Tank which resulted in the sand stopping? I dont agree since it was shown that Gai swiped the sand and dispersed it similar to wat Sasuke did to his sand clone but since Gai>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sasuke/Lee in physical prowess he was able to swat the whole bulk away with ease.

Also remember that Gaara's sand at that point wasn't hardened like his Auto Sand would normally be so Gai would have zero problem with soft sand like this.

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Heck i see Gai easily punching through his hardened Auto sand neg diff here.

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You said it yourself...The sand wasn't hardened so you don't necessarily need to be a tank to tank that. lol And the anime showed Gai swiping the sand but the manga didn't. I know it isn't animated but in the previous chapter, Kishi did draw

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with Kankuro.

Also look at Gai's palm...it betrays a hand that just swiped through something as i believe it should have been aligned with the rest of his arm if he did swipe.

Do you think the sand clone was from his auto sand though? If it was, i don't think Gaara would have been that calm when a thinner layer compared to the clone was what was going to shield him from Sasuke's next punch and i also don't see why Sasuke would have needed to use speed rather than just punch through like he did the clone.

From what i understand there...the sand clone isn't from his auto sand. That auto sand is implied in part 1 to be

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.

 

[neosmith500]

You said it yourself...The sand wasn't hardened so you don't necessarily need to be a tank to tank that. lol And the anime showed Gai swiping the sand but the manga didn't. I know it isn't animated but in the previous chapter, Kishi did draw

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with Kankuro.

Also look at Gai's palm...it betrays a hand that just swiped through something as i believe it should have been aligned with the rest of his arm if he did swipe.

Whatever guy did doesn't really matter because we know he physically dispersed the Sand away from Lee , not Gaara.

Do you think the sand clone was from his auto sand though? If it was, i don't think Gaara would have been that calm when a thinner layer compared to the clone was what was going to shield him from Sasuke's next punch and i also don't see why Sasuke would have needed to use speed rather than just punch through like he did the clone.

No the sand clone wasn't hardened and yes it was from his Auto sand since it came from his gourd sand and wat was about to shield Gaara was hardened , u can tell from its looks also. Sasuke cant punch through hardened sand if Lee couldn't.

From what i understand there...the sand clone isn't from his auto sand. That auto sand is implied in part 1 to be

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.

He didn't make sand so its from the same sand inside his gourd , i remember him literally making the clone from the sand around him which was his Gourd/Auto Sand.

 

[Jinrou]

Whatever guy did doesn't really matter because we know he physically dispersed the Sand away from Lee , not Gaara.

How do we know he physically dispersed it? He swiped his hand? But the manga doesn't show that..there is a lump of sand right there in front of his shoulder. A location that would have been in his swiping path.

A fast hand swipe..

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No the sand clone wasn't hardened and yes it was from his Auto sand since it came from his gourd sand and wat was about to shield Gaara was hardened , u can tell from its looks also. Sasuke cant punch through hardened sand if Lee couldn't.

He didn't make sand so its from the same sand inside his gourd , i remember him literally making the clone from the sand around him which was his Gourd/Auto Sand.

But the sand clone was hardened..that's why Sasuke's hand was stuck in the first place. He used a simple palm thrust to disperse that... A palm thrust. And Gaara's auto sand was implied to be stronger than steel..

 

[Kakooli]

I've always liked Gaara's auto sand shield.

I think it's cool how he can just stand still whilst battling. I would have loved to have seen Gaara vs Neji in part 1, I'm curious to know if jyuuken would nullify his defenses or not.

 

[neosmith500]

How do we know he physically dispersed it? He swiped his hand? But the manga doesn't show that..there is a lump of sand right there in front of his shoulder. A location that would have been in his swiping path.

A fast hand swipe..

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Because its the only thing he could've done to disperse it unless u think Gai was just standing there waiting for Gaara to disperse the sand , his hand gesture and chain of events shows that he physically dispersed it with his hand unless u really think that was a blocking pose.

-Gaara literally saw that his sand was slapped and was shocked.

But the sand clone was hardened..that's why Sasuke's hand was stuck in the first place. He used a simple palm thrust to disperse that... A palm thrust. And Gaara's auto sand was implied to be stronger than steel..

It only hardened the area around its neck when Sasuke struck into its neck , Sasuke then palmed it in the face which dispersed it from the head down to the neck.

-Its the exact same sand which is a a part of his Auto Sand.

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

With his sand he could put anyone to sleep. >=]

 

[Jinrou]

Because its the only thing he could've done to disperse it unless u think Gai was just standing there waiting for Gaara to disperse the sand , his hand gesture and chain of events shows that he physically dispersed it with his hand unless u really think that was a blocking pose.

-Gaara literally saw that his sand was slapped and was shocked.

Look at this image :

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The bottom panel where Gaara's sand stopped in front of Lee looked like this. The sand obviously wasn't advancing.

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The chain of events disagree somewhat though.

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Gaara's sand stops advancing in previous panel.

- He's shocked as to why in the first panel..
- The sand disperses and we see Gai
- Last panel reveals Gaara is shocked to see Gai.

It only hardened the area around its neck when Sasuke struck into its neck , Sasuke then palmed it in the face which dispersed it from the head down to the neck.

-Its the exact same sand which is a a part of his Auto Sand.

Then why did he opt to avoid the sand shielding Gaara by using speed to bypass the auto sand shield?

I think i remember Temari also saying his sand shield turned to the clone or sth but then the whole fight makes no sense. If he could punch through that why opt to bypass the auto sand shield with speed that was tiring him out quickly?

Either way i'm getting sidetracked. You claimed Gai's base punch could punch through Gaara's hardened sand which is what i wanted to really address. Do you really believe that?

 

[neosmith500]

Look at this image :



The bottom panel where Gaara's sand stopped in front of Lee looked like this. The sand obviously wasn't advancing.

That was probably just a millisecond before Gai swats the sand away.

The chain of events disagree somewhat though.


Gaara's sand stops advancing in previous panel.

- He's shocked as to why in the first panel..
- The sand disperses and we see Gai
- Last panel reveals Gaara is shocked to see Gai.

I see it as this.\

-Sand launches towards Lee.
-Gai intercepts sand before it can get to lee.
-Sand gets swatted away.
-Gaara is shocked to why sand got swatted and that Gai is responsible.

Then why did he opt to avoid the sand shielding Gaara by using speed to bypass the auto sand shield?

Because his punch is too weak to breach the Auto Sand.

I think i remember Temari also saying his sand shield turned to the clone or sth but then the whole fight makes no sense. If he could punch through that why opt to bypass the auto sand shield with speed that was tiring him out quickly?

Because sand clone does not = sand shield since all the auto sand needs to do is spring up and harden while the clone is used differently. No doubt Gaara can harden the whole Sand clone , but why would he when he wanted the clone to have a certain level of maneuverability.

-Sasuke cant punch through Auto Sand.

Either way i'm getting sidetracked. You claimed Gai's base punch could punch through Gaara's hardened sand which is what i wanted to really address. Do you really believe that?

Yes , the instance where Sasuke used speed i see Gai punching through since this was the same guy portrayed as bein able to pull a feat Sakura needed to accomplish with CES , and thats breaking down the giant rock blocking the akasuki hideout cave entrance neg diff.

 

[Jinrou]

That was probably just a millisecond before Gai swats the sand away.

My point exactly. The sand stopped advancing because Gai was there.

I see it as this.\

-Sand launches towards Lee.
-Gai intercepts sand before it can get to lee.
-Sand gets swatted away.
-Gaara is shocked to why sand got swatted and that Gai is responsible.

Plausible...Except in the last panel of that scan Gaara is shocked to see Gai and his immediate reaction in the next scan is to remember his dad and Yashamaru. This more or less shows the initial shock in the first panel wasn't because he saw Gai. Chain of events show Gai is revealed after Gaara's initial shock.

Because his punch is too weak to breach the Auto Sand
Because sand clone does not = sand shield since all the auto sand needs to do is spring up and harden while the clone is used differently. No doubt Gaara can harden the whole Sand clone , but why would he when he wanted the clone to have a certain level of maneuverability.

-Sasuke cant punch through Auto Sand.

Lol I knew this..but I was thinking you were using the fact Sasuke was able to palm thrust that clone to support your claim that Gai can punch through his autosand.

Yes , the instance where Sasuke used speed i see Gai punching through since this was the same guy portrayed as bein able to pull a feat Sakura needed to accomplish with CES , and thats breaking down the giant rock blocking the akasuki hideout cave entrance neg diff.

I disagree.
- Gaara has no control over his auto sand. The sand itself hardens and creates density according to the attack that is coming. (lol..The sand seems to be intelligent). Example in the forest of death against the rain guys, the sands density was much more thicker and against Kimi's finger bones, the density of sand was much thicker than what's in front of Sasuke...I think.

- 4G Lee also showed Sakura CES feats and thats destroying the ground by simply running. With that strength, he also destroys that rock neg diff. But this same 4G Lee advanced to 5G. He hit Gaara multiple times and didn't entirely destroy Gaara's armor of sand that is weaker in comparison with the shield of sand. Base Gai isn't punching through Gaara's auto sand.

 

[neosmith500]

My point exactly. The sand stopped advancing because Gai was there.



Plausible...Except in the last panel of that scan Gaara is shocked to see Gai and his immediate reaction in the next scan is to remember his dad and Yashamaru. This more or less shows the initial shock in the first panel wasn't because he saw Gai. Chain of events show Gai is revealed after Gaara's initial shock.

Lol in manga things are always happening simultaneously while another thing is being shown. Gaara's facial expression happened simultaneously with Gai swatting the sand away , which is why we dont actually see Gai doing the swatting because that instance was instead used to show us Gaara's shocked expression to seeing it happen which is why we only saw the aftermath.

Lol I knew this..but I was thinking you were using the fact Sasuke was able to palm thrust that clone to support your claim that Gai can punch through his autosand.

Lol Na man i was just using it to show u that soft sand is soft..

I disagree.
- Gaara has no control over his auto sand. The sand itself hardens and creates density according to the attack that is coming. (lol..The sand seems to be intelligent). Example in the forest of death against the rain guys, the sands density was much more thicker and against Kimi's finger bones, the density of sand was much thicker than what's in front of Sasuke...I think.

Thats fine and lol can does have control over his sand but it doesn't mean the sand isn't independent.

- 4G Lee also showed Sakura CES feats and thats destroying the ground by simply running. With that strength, he also destroys that rock neg diff. But this same 4G Lee advanced to 5G. He hit Gaara multiple times and didn't entirely destroy Gaara's armor of sand that is weaker in comparison with the shield of sand. Base Gai isn't punching through Gaara's auto sand.

Gated Lee didn't really show sakura level punching feats and his gated punch would have no problem punching through that same sand defense Sasuke avoided along with Gai/Sakura doing the same. Lee's whole body was amped by the Gates so his running shared similarly feats.

The reason Sand armor doesn't protect as well as Auto sand is because it uses up allot of chakra and it isn't automatic but i have no doubt that if that same amount of sand that sasuke avoided sprang up in front of 5G Lee it would've gotten punched through like the clone was. A large amount of compacted sand would be a different matter especially his sand dome.

 

[BlacLord™]

Gai did the swipe the sand away. How does it disperse a lump of sand? It's called having great physical ability.

Your average human can create a small breeze by swiping their hand across quickly, so for a guy whose base strength allows them

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(and yes, it did happen in the manga), it's not surprising he can swat away a genin's lump of sand.

The look on Gaara's face says "f*ck what? Someone swatted away my sand?!" And there's a piece of sand in front of his shoulder because the width of his hand isn't the size of a shovel.

 

[Jinrou]

Lol in manga things are always happening simultaneously while another thing is being shown. Gaara's facial expression happened simultaneously with Gai swatting the sand away , which is why we dont actually see Gai doing the swatting because that instance was instead used to show us Gaara's shocked expression to seeing it happen which is why we only saw the aftermath.

I disagree...What was Gaara's second shocked expression in the last panel for?

Lol Na man i was just using it to show u that soft sand is soft..

lol very well then xD

Thats fine and lol can does have control over his sand but it doesn't mean the sand isn't independent.

Gaara? Yes agreed.

Gated Lee didn't really show sakura level punching feats and his gated punch would have no problem punching through that same sand defense Sasuke avoided along with Gai/Sakura doing the same. Lee's whole body was amped by the Gates so his running shared similarly feats.

You underestimate Lee's strength bro

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-

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. And that is base Lee. His strength is amped by gates and thats why

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happened to the floor with only initial lotus. 4G Lee > 1G Lee.

Again, Gaara's auto sand increases volume and density based on the attack that is coming.

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That volume of sand was enough to stop Sasuke's punch...we don't know if the sand would have brought out that same volume if Gai was in Sasuke's shoes. Kimi's bones would have gotten through the sand in front of Sasuke too.

The reason Sand armor doesn't protect as well as Auto sand is because it uses up allot of chakra and it isn't automatic but i have no doubt that if that same amount of sand that sasuke avoided sprang up in front of 5G Lee it would've gotten punched through like the clone was. A large amount of compacted sand would be a different matter especially his sand dome.

I disagree.. Lee was basically looking to over speed the shield of sand and damage the armor..if not frontal assaults would have sufficed rather than going up and down everywhere. I think Gai or Kakashi also stated he had to find a way around the sand shield?

Gai did the swipe the sand away. How does it disperse a lump of sand? It's called having great physical ability.

Your average human can create a small breeze by swiping their hand across quickly, so for a guy whose base strength allows them

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(and yes, it did happen in the manga), it's not surprising he can swat away a genin's lump of sand.

The look on Gaara's face says "f*ck what? Someone swatted away my sand?!" And there's a piece of sand in front of his shoulder because the width of his hand isn't the size of a shovel.

Look at the scan again man. that lump of sand in front of his shoulder is in the path of a full left to right arm swipe.

 

[neosmith500]

I disagree...What was Gaara's second shocked expression in the last panel for?

Come on bro , that always happens when he sees someone save another Lol..

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Gaara? Yes agreed.

Yep.

You underestimate Lee's strength bro

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-

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. And that is base Lee. His strength is amped by gates and thats why

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happened to the floor with only initial lotus. 4G Lee > 1G Lee.

I dont actually but that doesn't equal CES since with it sakura can cause massive amounts of damage with a single finger which are feats i dont see Lee being capable of.

Again, Gaara's auto sand increases volume and density based on the attack that is coming.

True but a punch is a punch so the sand would have no reason to add that much sand clumped together not to mention the speed at which guy would be traveling.

That volume of sand was enough to stop Sasuke's punch...we don't know if the sand would have brought out that same volume if Gai was in Sasuke's shoes. Kimi's bones would have gotten through the sand in front of Sasuke too.

I agree.

I disagree.. Lee was basically looking to over speed the shield of sand and damage the armor..if not frontal assaults would have sufficed rather than going up and down everywhere. I think Gai or Kakashi also stated he had to find a way around the sand shield?

At Gated Level the shield of Sand was basically irrelevant anyway due to lee having the ability to simply ignore it and his speed would make sure that the sand would never have time to fully spring up and harden properly.

 

[Jinrou]

Come on bro , that always happens when he sees someone save another Lol..

That's where the issue is man..lol. The shock in the bottom panel is his reaction to seeing Gai shielding Lee. But if we go according to your interpretation of events, it wouldn't make much sense because you said Gaara saw Gai swat his sand. That would mean Gaara was shocked to see Gai in the first panel and then got shocked again seeing the same Gai in the last panel.

Also what is your explanation for the lump of sand in front of Gai's shoulder?

I dont actually but that doesn't equal CES since with it sakura can cause massive amounts of damage with a single finger which are feats i dont see Lee being capable of.

You used that akatsuki barrier rock that Sakura and (Gai?) destroyed as a comparison. 4G Lee is destroying that rock neg diff. I don't think that can be argued?

The same 4G Lee then went 5G and used reverse lotus that was said in the databook to be extremely fatal because of its power but it still couldn't completely

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. For further proof, he says himself that

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. And that's only the initial lotus not reverse lotus and he didn't eradicate the armor in both scenarios.

Shield of sand > armor of sand defensively. If it could only crack the armor, it really isn't doing the much to the superior sand shield.
Also although it can't be proven, 4G Lee's punch should be > Base Gai's punch. Base Gai isn't punching through the shield of sand.

True but a punch is a punch so the sand would have no reason to add that much sand clumped together not to mention the speed at which guy would be traveling.

A kick is a kick too but in the Lee fight the sand created different volumes/density for different kinds of Lee's kicks.

Notice volume of sand in response to a kick carrying the full force of the weights Lee had on at the time.

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Notice smaller volume of sand with just the foot but still a kick (top left panel)

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Again, Gaara's sand adjusts volume and density based on the attack that is coming.

@bold..that's the point i'm trying to make. Part 1 Gai probably defeats Gaara by using speed to outmaneuver but he isn't beating Gaara by punching through the shield of sand.

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. And an attack doesn't get more physical than a punch..A base punch. Also don't forget at that point Gaara had survived a number of assassination attempts.

At Gated Level the shield of Sand was basically irrelevant anyway due to lee having the ability to simply ignore it and his speed would make sure that the sand would never have time to fully spring up and harden properly.

It wasn't irrelevant. If not Lee wouldn't have had to resort to reverse lotus since he can just stand in one spot and pummel Gaara till the armor was eradicated completely. Pushing him around was obviously to avoid the shield of sand catching up.

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